Just ****ing THROW IT!!

[Mr Cynical]

Apart from the award for worst ref ever at GP, the one abiding memory of the Luton game for me was the absolute hopelessness whenever Nelson got the ball. Just watching him take a moment to steady himself, look up, have a think, and then punt the ball aimlessly towards our two dwarf strikers was possibly the most depressing thing that night.

Surely in a side that has only one player who can head the ball (and him being in your own back four) our keeper might at least attempt to throw the ball out once in a while? I think it finally happened late in the second half when all was lost. Surely this can't have been what Leroy wanted? Obviously you need your defensive players to show for the ball but most of the time Nelson didnt even bother to look. For most of the match Tillen appeared unmarked on the left but he was just left to watch it fly aimlessly over everyone's heads only to see it inevitably come straight back down our throats at the feet of a Luton player..

If we're going to play football it's got to start from the back, especially with no target man to speak of.. I am at an absolute loss to explain this particular tactic.. Can anyone shed some light on it?

 

[The H]

well, yes... but its dangerous with the 'wing-backs' so far forward and they have to get it down and play while marked.... Heywood seemed to want it on the floor, but as he was 2 yards away from Nelson at the time i don't see the point.... the forward line seemed to wait for the '2nd ball' which is ok by me.. :shrug:

 

[BraemarSH]

well, yes... but its dangerous with the 'wing-backs' so far forward and they have to get it down and play while marked.... Heywood seemed to want it on the floor, but as he was 2 yards away from Nelson at the time i don't see the point.... the forward line seemed to wait for the '2nd ball' which is ok by me.. :shrug:

If Heywood merely wanted to launch the ball as far forward as he could then there would be no point. Nelson can kick it further than anybody else in the side, so let him.

The real point is that Heywood wanted to get the ball from Nelson and then play a 10 or 15 yard pass to a teammate, who could then pass to a teammate and so on, working the ball forwards in a controlled manner.

Even when the ball's going sideways along the backline it stills drags the opposition players upfield in pursuit of it.

With a small, lightweight side the name of the game is retaining possession NOT seeing whether you can kick the ball over the goal at the other end.

You only have to watch Van der Saar play for Man Utd to see that goalkeepers CAN play a simple ball to a teammate nearby. Throw it or pass it but don't just launch it.

 

[The H]

i'd rather we didn't fanny around along the back though..... as that is where we'll concede, ala the 1st goal, via the midfield...

Man U and BFC aren't comparable..... i get the jitters with any pass along the back four to be honest...

 

[Les Beeavinu]

If there's no-one else to throw it too, the best tactic is to launch it long. It's a bonus if you win the first ball (which sometimes just results in a flick to no-one) but the important thing is the second ball. Their centre back doesn't often get control of the ball but heads it under pressure and it's then our midfield's job to pick up the second ball. Hopefully, you'll be somewhere around the middle of their half going forward.

 

[Hullbee]

Correct Nelson i a complete idiot whos distribution has not improved since he has been at Brentford. I think he is still programmed to Martin Allens style of football namely BOOT it as far as you can... Nelson gives it the big man yet to the crowd ball boys and the like yet seems to have no confidence on the ball............. Nelson please close the door behind you

 

[Mads Bee]

Nelson and his hoof kicking is just simply ridiculous. I agree with the comment above, Tillen was often unmarked during the Luton match ( and many times during all matches this season ) but Nelly never throws it to him and 95% of the time hoofs it aimlessly at our dwarves upfront. If he is such a good goalkeeper as he thinks he is, a bit of common sense and a good look at the play would tell him what to do, he tells everyone else what to do, so he should take some of his own medicine

 

[Simon C]

More Nelson bashing.

 

[Infatuated Bees Alter Ego]

Why get on Nelson's back ?
If he was doing anything wrong, or something the Manager didn't want him to do, I'm sure he would've been dropped by now.
Maybe Leroy want's Nelson to kick it so high it comes down with snow on it.

 

[North London Bee]

This is ridiculous. Nelson in my view is the only keeper since Dearden who consistently looks for the opportunity to make quick throw outs.

He is particularly effective at seeking out strikers or wingers around the halfway line.

But don't shoot the messenger as it is entirley up to the player to show himself and make space.

Criticise Nelson if they do so and he ignores them but generally it is the other way round

 

[Les Beeavinu]

This is ridiculous.

:yes: It is, isn't it.

 

[jmcp]

In my opinion one of the factors in why this season Brentford have played so much improved in second halfs of matches is because Nelson has been told at half time to stop hoofing it and throw the ball.

 

[Mads Bee]

I just get very worried when any ball comes into the box ( or outside the box as Nelly likes doing his little party pieces out of the 18yard box ) When he goes into challenges ( similar to the one where he was nearly at the corner flag, kicked straight at a Luton player and then the backline had to cover the goal line to save his sorry arse ) it makes me angry. He is far too unreliable in those situations and insists of hoofing the ball to our little 'uns upfront when we now play ball on the floor, hence he should follow the line. People may say oh but he did this save and that save, well so he should, thats his bloody job, he nots paid to fanny about.
As an example, I never had this lack of confidence when Paul Smith was our goalie and after the initial jitters when Clarke Masters played in the first match of the season by the end of the match, I thoroughly enjoyed watching him play a good, sensible game. Nelly need to have time to ponder on the bench and give him a kick up his arse to show that he is not the one and only GK we have got and Masters can do a job too.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

As NLB quite rightly states, it's up to the players in front of him to show for him. I'm sure he would be crucified (even more ) if he just chucked the ball out and put us in trouble all the time. I'd much rather be battling for a ball in their half with 11 men behind the ball than chasing a winger with 1 or 2 covering.

 

[Westlad]

This has been the case all season unfortunately. Maybe he needs to practise throwing once in a while...

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Nelly need to have time to ponder on the bench and give him a kick up his arse to show that he is not the one and only GK we have got and Masters can do a job too.

How can you possibly know that Why don't we just leave it to the professionals who see these players every day. And before we get all dewy-eyed about Masters let's try to remember that he spent the first 20 minutes of his debut flapping at balls in the box but redeemed himself later with two or three quality saves.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

And another thing (because this thread is really pissing me off now) how many teams in our division turn up with teams playing short balls from the back through midfield? This might work in the Premiership because they're not so worried about condeding possession but in Div 1 the game is all about hassling, harrying and denying space and thus a team that threw the ball all the time would be slaughtered.

And the reason why he throws it more in the second half is because there is usually more space as teams lose energy.

 

[Simon C]

How can you possibly know that Why don't we just leave it to the professionals who see these players every day. And before we get all dewy-eyed about Masters let's try to remember that he spent the first 20 minutes of his debut flapping at balls in the box but redeemed himself later with two or three quality saves.

Why does Nelson get up so many people's noses? With away fans I can understand it......

 

[Mads Bee]

How can you possibly know that Why don't we just leave it to the professionals who see these players every day. And before we get all dewy-eyed about Masters let's try to remember that he spent the first 20 minutes of his debut flapping at balls in the box but redeemed himself later with two or three quality saves.

Sorry, I thought this was open forum.

So you've never posted a complaint,comment or view about a player and are 100% happy with the team for every match you've ever been to have you?

 

[Gee Bee]

This is ridiculous. Nelson in my view is the only keeper since Dearden who consistently looks for the opportunity to make quick throw outs.

He is particularly effective at seeking out strikers or wingers around the halfway line.

But don't shoot the messenger as it is entirley up to the player to show himself and make space.

Criticise Nelson if they do so and he ignores them but generally it is the other way round

Spot on. Both Full backs tend to never look for or want it. Brooker occassionaly does a bit further up, but too often the players are trotting up and not facing the ball and therefore giving nelson no other options. Full backs should always drop off wide and call for it, this then tends to stretch the oppostion wider to mark them, which in turns creates more space around the middle of the park and someon like Pinault could pick the ball up from Nelson (hopefully without being tackled). Movement off the ball is vitally important to create space and prsent more options.

 

[Simon C]

Frampton does that more than O'Connor, Gee Bee. However we haven't seen him at full back so far this season.

 

[Westlad]

Who needs a manager when you've got the GPG?

 

[SmiffyBee]

Frampton does that more than O'Connor, Gee Bee. However we haven't seen him at full back so far this season.

but when Frampton gets it, hit just lumps it into the opposition half anyway, usually in the channel.

agreed with the fact that Nelson rarely gets an offer from the full backs to throw it to them...Tabby used to love the ball.........maybe Leroy should encourage Kuffour to pull into wide areas, when Nelson gathers the ball from a corner

 

[jay1310]

Oh here we go - today's instalment of Nelson bashing.....

I am going to say one thing - he needs the options to throw it...... maybe the thread should be titled "Just give a ****ing option"

Thanks for your time

 

[Paul O'Brien]

Each home game I've seen he's thrown the ball out on a couple of occasions (yes, in the first half as well). But he does so when a) there's no lump in the way b) when the player is either wanting it or is looking the right way c) when the player isn't too tightly marked and d)when the nearest player to the proposed recipient is not as fast as our man is.

Yes, I'd like him to throw out more often, but I haven't the same confidence in Haywood and Griffiths with the ball at their feet as I had in Turner and Sam.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Sorry, I thought this was open forum.

So you've never posted a complaint,comment or view about a player and are 100% happy with the team for every match you've ever been to have you?

It is which means I'm allowed a response. Don't take things so personally. I was questioning your opinion, not you. That's what debate is.

As for your second paragraph, of course not, why would you have that impression just because I disagree with your view on Nelson?

 

[jmcp]

And another thing (because this thread is really pissing me off now) how many teams in our division turn up with teams playing short balls from the back through midfield? This might work in the Premiership because they're not so worried about condeding possession but in Div 1 the game is all about hassling, harrying and denying space and thus a team that threw the ball all the time would be slaughtered.

And the reason why he throws it more in the second half is because there is usually more space as teams lose energy.

But maybe you answered your own question? Teams dont at this level and thats why they are playing in league 1. Luton played there way out of our division and are still doing ok higher up. Colchester Southend and Barnsley didnt play lump it football either.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

But maybe you answered your own question? Teams dont at this level and thats why they are playing in league 1. Luton played there way out of our division and are still doing ok higher up. Colchester Southend and Barnsley didnt play lump it football either.

Luton had Steve Howard, Colchester Chris Iwelumo, Shaun Goater for Southend. They might not have played hoof it football continuously but they had a physical presence up front who could hold the ball up when they needed to. The problem is this year we've got no-one whereas last year we relied too much on Lloyd as a target man. I'm hoping that Lloyd or the bloke on trial give us the option of mixing it up when they play.

 

[jmcp]

Granted, but with the players we have at present this style is never going to work and if Nelson lumps it at Chesterfield their two centre backs will have a field day. I agree with you if Clyde signs then the direct approach could work. I still feel though that when a opposition teams lumps it against us i feel very comfortable (Southend away tore us apart through the flanks, not Goater, similarily Yeates at home did for Colchester. If i like the opposition to lump the ball then they will like us to play this way. Although i take your point the odd occasion it works where for example i felt Owusu bullied Barnsley last year from direct balls.

 

[Streetboy]

Tillen appeared unmarked on the left but he was just left to watch it fly aimlessly over everyone's heads only to see it inevitably come straight back down our throats at the feet of a Luton player..

To be fair, this was happening more when Nelson was not in possession. Tillen was on his own out there at times with only acres of green space around him. So much so that I wondered if I was seeing things and we really didn't have a player consistenyl unmarked in yards of space that no other player seemed to have clocked.

 

[The H]

Charles seemed to never pass to Tillen... anyone else notice this :shrug:

 

[Mads Bee]

Charles seemed to never pass to Tillen... anyone else notice this :shrug:

:yes:

 

[Edmundo]

So Nelson should throw it to a marked Bees player, should he? And put us under severe pressure by so doing. It's a joke - if he did the very same Nelson-haters would be crucifying him on here. Nelson always looks for the quick distribution opportunity, but it's not like we play against a bunch of schoolboys and a lot of the time the opposition has closed down the openings. If our full backs and wingers can create more space, then Nelson can throw to them, but if not, a long kick is the natural restart and you would be amazed how often opposing goalkeepers do the same thing.

 

[leatherhat]

Each home game I've seen he's thrown the ball out on a couple of occasions (yes, in the first half as well). But he does so when a) there's no lump in the way b) when the player is either wanting it or is looking the right way c) when the player isn't too tightly marked and d)when the nearest player to the proposed recipient is not as fast as our man is.

Yes, I'd like him to throw out more often, but I haven't the same confidence in Haywood and Griffiths with the ball at their feet as I had in Turner and Sam.

I had no confidence in Sam with the ball at his feet - especially since xmas... I used to hate watching him as much as I loved watching him... he scared the sh*t out of me with his silliness when he was the last man. I know Nelson isn't the best, but he's by far from the worst. IMO Masters' debut was inspired yet he was also heavily looked after by Frampton, which would not be the case at the moment. We can't rely on Heywood to look after himself and 4 kids in our back five... we'll get murdered...

 

[Egham Pete]

It seems to be a problem with the whole team rather than just Nelson, although he is probably the most obvious culprit. Our off the ball movement seems to be poor, resulting in a static and easily markeable team, meaning that the person with the ball has little option but to hit and hope, or send it all the way back to Nelson for him to do it.

For a passing side we definately seem to struggle to put the passes together consistently, and to retain the ball. There were several times on Tuesday where the pass was overhit, not accurate enough to reach the intended player or miscontrolled. This worries me slightly, as I would hope that a passing side would be well drilled in knocking the ball around on the floor consistently.

With regard to losing the ball in that area, yes its a bad area to give the ball away in, often resulting in a goal, if we get into the rhythm of doing it we should be less likely to lose the ball and better able to regain it when we do. In all honesty i'd rather we lost it in that area but gained confidence of using the ball without fear in the opposition's box.

We also seem to be worryingly condensed into areas of the pitch at certain times during the game, where the switch ball would have opened up the space and got us out of trouble. I would also disagree that the pressing tactics employed by virtually everyone in our league make this style unplayeable. If you're able to work the ball and pass it well that shouldn't matter, as you should be able to play your way out of trouble rather than desperately get rid of the ball

 

[Hullbee]

More Nelson bashing.

Plenty of Nelson bashing (and its not verbal bashing) goes on at the Back of the Brook Road

Nelson out MASTERS IN

 

[sgaz]

I think he is still programmed to Martin Allens style of football namely BOOT it as far as you cane

If LR is telling him to boot it..........he will boot it. If he's telling him to roll it out, he will be rolling it out

You can bet your life on it

 

[Hullbee]

If LR is telling him to boot it..........he will boot it. If he's telling him to roll it out, he will be rolling it out

You can bet your life on it

Nelson is such a dum nuts perhaps he doesn't understand

 

[Mr Cynical]

So Nelson should throw it to a marked Bees player, should he? And put us under severe pressure by so doing. It's a joke - if he did the very same Nelson-haters would be crucifying him on here. Nelson always looks for the quick distribution opportunity, but it's not like we play against a bunch of schoolboys and a lot of the time the opposition has closed down the openings. If our full backs and wingers can create more space, then Nelson can throw to them, but if not, a long kick is the natural restart and you would be amazed how often opposing goalkeepers do the same thing.

Of course he shouldnt throw to a marked player, that's just pathetic.. !! I disagree that he always looks for a quick distribution. He sometimes releases it quickly but it's invariably a kick upfield. There were plenty of occassions in the Luton game where players were available for a quick throw but he never took the opportunity. I'm not necessarily having a go at Nelson here, as he's obviously under orders but the sheer pointlessness of punting the ball high to Kuffour and Tomlin highlighted for me a major flaw in our tactics and one which we need to address if we're going to get the best out of the players we have at our disposal at the moment..

 

[homelessbee]

Plenty of Nelson bashing (and its not verbal bashing) goes on at the Back of the Brook Road

Nelson out MASTERS IN

So how do they bash him on the Brook Road. Using the medium of mime or some such?

 

[Hullbee]

So how do they bash him on the Brook Road. Using the medium of mime or some such?

I believe some people call it bashing the bishop....

Basically what I am getting at is that there is a certain section in Brook Road that never critcise Nelson and shout down those that do

 

[Gee Bee]

I believe some people call it bashing the bishop....

Basically what I am getting at is that there is a certain section in Brook Road that never critcise Nelson and shout down those that do

What keeper in league 1 would you prefer.
Some would say Gueret at Swansea, yet he cost them their play off win. Others would say Smith at Forest who cost them 2 points the other week.
End of the line, keepers are more exposed and we only see Nelson regularly. If you had any of the others you would see the same mistakes and in many cases more.

 

[North London Bee]

What keeper in league 1 would you prefer.
Some would say Gueret at Swansea, yet he cost them their play off win. Others would say Smith at Forest who cost them 2 points the other week.
End of the line, keepers are more exposed and we only see Nelson regularly. If you had any of the others you would see the same mistakes and in many cases more.

True but most of them seem to reserve their good displays for us - not that we overly test them I am afraid!!

I remember Senior letting DJ's weak shot trickle in but am hard pressed to recall many other complete balls ups by opposing keepers.

 

[Gee Bee]

True but most of them seem to reserve their good displays for us - not that we overly test them I am afraid!!

I remember Senior letting DJ's weak shot trickle in but am hard pressed to recall many other complete balls ups by opposing keepers.

Thats the crux though, we dont test their keepers enough to see how good they are. If we created and scored more at home then we could then maybe really value Nelson better especially away from home. Many only see his home perfomances, much of which is done ok, but because we don't score enough, his mistakes are highlighted greater. If we won 3-1 every week at home, nobody would notice even if the 1 goal every week was the keepers fault. But becaue its's 1-1 or 2-2 etc every mistake is enhanced. Even if the shot he failed to save was the fault initially of someone else.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

True but most of them seem to reserve their good displays for us - not that we overly test them I am afraid!!

I remember Senior letting DJ's weak shot trickle in but am hard pressed to recall many other complete balls ups by opposing keepers.

Nothampton away and Huddersfield at home this season would have been accompanied by a "he's got to be disappointed with that" if Andy Gray was commenting.

 

[Hullbee]

What keeper in league 1 would you prefer.
Some would say Gueret at Swansea, yet he cost them their play off win. Others would say Smith at Forest who cost them 2 points the other week.
End of the line, keepers are more exposed and we only see Nelson regularly. If you had any of the others you would see the same mistakes and in many cases more.

I believe we have the keeper we need MASTERS nobody has scored passed him to date

 

[Gee Bee]

I believe we have the keeper we need MASTERS nobody has scored passed him to date

I thought the same the first time I saw Julian play. You cannot judge any player, whatever position on one game. FACT.

 

[Bangor Bee]

I don't get to many games but I think the criticism on this thread is valid. Against Bournemouth, Nelson's intent usually seemed to be to kick the ball as far as possible regardless of whether this was worthwhile. What is the point of kicking it straight to their keeper or to a centre half likely to win every ball in the air? His long punts just gifted the ball to the opposition time and time again. Admittedly, others have to make the space for a throw, so perhaps one could say the whole team is at fault: we should be aiming to keep the ball on the deck as much as possible.

 

[Gee Bee]

I don't get to many games but I think the criticism on this thread is valid. Against Bournemouth, Nelson's intent usually seemed to be to kick the ball as far as possible regardless of whether this was worthwhile. What is the point of kicking it straight to their keeper or to a centre half likely to win every ball in the air? His long punts just gifted the ball to the opposition time and time again. Admittedly, others have to make the space for a throw, so perhaps one could say the whole team is at fault: we should be aiming to keep the ball on the deck as much as possible.

How can the criticism be valid if you admit that other need to make space for a throw?

 

[nocoat]

I think a very valid point to make, which hasn't yet been made would be that if anyone else makes a mistake it is easily forgotten but if a goalkeeper does it is magnified and everyone remembers it.