Kurt On Ticketing System Issues

[Banana]

In reply to my mail heres Kurt response. Not read it myself yet and disappearing into meetings for the rest of the day

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your email to Mark and I, it’s disappointing that you feel this way and we are very conscious that this change has caused frustration for some fans on the way though. I do have to say in this instance, it appears there’s confusion between (1) the sales process for QPR/WBA and (2) the perceived Ticketing System issues. So with that in mind I wanted to deal with the points you’ve highlighted.

QPR and WBA sales process
These matches are being sold in line with the customer charter and with an allocation of 1pp and 2pp respectively as we felt relevant at the time we announced the access plan. I go back as far as Feb ’16 when we spoke at length and consequently agreed with BIAS to use a 1pp allocation for QPR in that season, given the level of demand we expected and number of tickets available.

The only difference in this instance is the requirement to sell the upper tier first, it is a common practice amongst clubs to instruct on selling sequence. While we disagree with QPR’s requirements (and have made that known), we do need to respect them as we would expect that of other clubs towards us. In hindsight, we may have chosen to sell differently and as we do in all instances, we’ll evaluate this for the next time we play at Loftus Road. If you haven’t seen it already, we’re now able to release the lower tier seats at Loftus Road.

We made an operational decision to have these two games on sale at the same time, with the priorities aligning it makes it easier for a fan to buy both games at the same time.

Ticketing System to Access Control Interface
The primary issue encountered, which was system specific, related to the integration with our access control partner. This did result in cards for new Season Ticket Holders (approx. 1,200) not being sent out in time for the start of the season. These were consequently sent out leading into the Sheffield Wednesday match. It wasn’t ideal, we’re sorry for that and we are extremely grateful for fans patience as we worked through this.

Over the first three matches we found errors with 116 returning Season Ticket Holders cards which have since been resolved, this interface is working as it should do for fans to get into the ground. Any other issues of note are essentially down to how we’ve configured the system and we’re reviewing this as we go.

Online User Journey
As I’ve said to you previously, the user journey is very subjective and we do want feedback on this. Our shift to the new ticketing system has resulted in a few changes for how fans purchase their tickets and also how they get them. We are using the same solution as the other UK based SecuTix clients while also working hard to make it our own.

To date we’ve continually made improvements based on internal reviews, the feedback we’ve had first hand from fans and in monitoring fan conversations. We’re continually revisiting the configurations we put in place and have begun releasing ‘how to guides’ for fans such as https://www.brentfordfc.com/tickets/match-tickets/members-discount), there are more of these to follow. On this point, we noticed yesterday that we’ve not displayed the categories alongside the prices online for QPR, that’s a manual setting that we got wrong and corrected it within mins of becoming aware of it.

We do acknowledge that we haven’t yet shown the quantity of TAPs in fans accounts in the time we identified. However, the process we’ve implemented is consistent with past use of them to manage access despite the change in ticketing system. We’ve ensured that these values have been communicated directly to fans both via personalised emails and via post. Our intention is to display these once the West Brom match has passed given that the values will change for a number of people as each match passes and we don’t want to create any confusion.

We’re also mindful that at the moment Members cannot upload their ticket to their Brentford Card and are being encouraged to use Print @ Home tickets. While the upload functionality is there we aren’t happy with the user journey, we’re working to improve this at the moment. As I communicated to Adam cc’d, we’re constantly looking to improve and as such we’ve also been running some live tests since the Wigan match on new card scanners that will read from mobile devices.

Other
You may or may not be interested to know that our online transactions are now the highest they’ve ever been, tracking at 70% against last season’s high of 65%. It’s also worth noting that we achieved record sales in one day for the match against Arsenal, 4,000 tickets were sold on day one and 80% of these were online. Our previous record was the recent FA Cup tie against Chelsea (1,000 in day one).

Again, we welcome feedback on the user journey and as a demonstration of this the Ticketing Focus Group will have their first meeting in November and our ticketing partners SecuTix will be there as well. In conjunction with our research we conduct and the feedback we get direct from fans, we anticipate this group will help us fine tune the user journey further and also help with developing any new features.

The last time you had some concerns we replied to you openly and you consequently published these on the GPG. I’m also more than happy to take the same approach again if that would help, I trust this email goes some way to do just that. Finally, we would proactively encourage fans to share their feedback with us directly via [email protected].

Regards,


Kurt

 

[amersfoort bee]

Seems almost everything is OK.

Nothing to worry about but people must learn to use the system we have developed although it is non intuitive and badly thought out.

Think I have just about summed up the reply.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Great update from Kurt, looks like we are facing several challenges with increased volumes etc. Looks like its all being managed as one would expect.

 

[amersfoort bee]

Great update from Kurt, looks like we are facing several challenges with increased volumes etc. Looks like its all being managed as one would expect.

Badly?

 

[Houghton Bee]

Great update from Kurt, looks like we are facing several challenges with increased volumes etc. Looks like its all being managed as one would expect.

Yeah, incompetently with the usual head in the sands and la-la-laing until it all blows over.

It's November and member cards are useless.

The WBA tickets 'being aligned' with QPR priorities is an outright lie imo. There is no need whatsoever to prioritise sales on a Monday night game that's live on TV, he knows that as well as we do, if he doesn't he shouldn't be anywhere near the ticketing aspect of the club.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Badly?

No, I have complete faith in the club getting this right, they have obstacles to overcome but appear to be heading in the right direction. As said previously a great update from Kurt providing some details on the background to some of the issues raised on the GPG.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Yeah, incompetently with the usual head in the sands and la-la-laing until it all blows over.

It's November and member cards are useless.

The WBA tickets 'being aligned' with QPR priorities is an outright lie imo. There is no need whatsoever to prioritise sales on a Monday night game that's live on TV, he knows that as well as we do, if he doesn't he shouldn't be anywhere near the ticketing aspect of the club.

Why would he lie? Have i missed something?

 

[amersfoort bee]

No, I have complete faith in the club getting this right, they have obstacles to overcome but appear to be heading in the right direction..

Towards the position they should have been at before launching the new system. They have had six months since the new system went live. Don't you think it should all be in place and working perfectly by now?

 

[wanderer paul]

Great update from Kurt, looks like we are facing several challenges with increased volumes etc. Looks like its all being managed as one would expect.

That’s poppycock.

They’ve had the system from April 2018. The Club implemented it from May 2018. It’s been a shambles ever since. One excuse after another. It’s now 6 months down the line. There are still big issues with it. The “journey” to buy a ticket, seriously? An f’ing “journey”! lol

All we want is an easy system to purchase a home or away ticket. Not a long winded one that doesn’t work and isn’t intuitive.

At The fans forum it was said TAPs would be used for QPR and it’ll be on the system. Failed. Big failure.

 

[gbems92]

I don't know why any company or organisation rolls out things without knowing it's in full working order not just us and this situation but you see it everywhere

 

[abee]

Great update from Kurt, looks like we are facing several challenges with increased volumes etc. Looks like its all being managed as one would expect.

At last.........one member of the BFC board is posting on here.

 

[Darren J]

At last.........one member of the BFC board is posting on here.

:laugh:

 

[jlove]

Did we sell all the Upper Tier at Loftarse Road, he doesn't actually say?

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Did we sell all the Upper Tier at Loftarse Road, he doesn't actually say?

I bet we didnt.

I like the way hes putting out the online sales increase as some form of success.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

I bet we didnt.

I like the way hes putting out the online sales increase as some form of success.

ST's still down though

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

ST's still down though

Didnt know they had published those numbers.

 

[Houghton Bee]

ST's still down though

And actual in-ground match day average attendances I dare say.

 

[Ealing Bee]

I've not been able to get to GP much this season so far, so have not been using the new system v.much.

But just yesterday, the club sent me an email promoting the Millwall game, which prompted me to book my ticket (Ealing Road).

I clicked on the link in the email and it took me to the (general) ticketing page. This link stated "Tickets from £25/£30" or somesuch.

It didn't specify the difference, and I assumed it was £25 if you bought in advance, £30 on the day (in line with usual practice)

I then went from there to log onto my account to book.

I was just about to buy a £25 ticket, when I happened to notice the drop down menu to the side which allowed me to scroll down to the Member's price i.e. £20!

This was not at all clear from the navigation in the original email, or on the website, which is very poor.

Worse still, when I checked back through my booking history, I noted that I paid £25 for the Sheff Wed game. Does this mean that as a Member, I paid £5 more than I should have?

P.S. If Mr. Pitman or one of his acolytes should read this (as part of the "monitoring fans conversations" he referred to above), they might like to consider the following.

1. I am not particularly knowledgeable about new technology etc (though I would hope I'm somewhere near average). However, I once had a job where I was accessing retail websites and booking tickets and services all day long. Therefore I think I am well qualified to assess such websites from the point of view of the typical user. And I can say that the present BFC ticketing site is absolutely crap!

2. When I start to read an "explanation" like that supplied to 'Banana', it does not mollify me in the least! Quite the contrary in fact, full as it is of irritating jargon and transparent excuses and evasions, designed no doubt to obscure, exculpate and deflect.

3. Following from 2., it would be much better all round simply to cut the crap and just admit, "We've not been doing very well, it's rather embarrassing, so we are re-doubling our efforts to get it right. Sorry."

 

[johndub]

“Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your email to Mark and I..........”

Not the greatest start!

 

[RodBee]

'2. When I start to read an "explanation" like that supplied to 'Banana', it does not mollify me in the least! Quite the contrary in fact, full as it is of irritating jargon and transparent excuses and evasions, designed no doubt to obscure, exculpate and deflect.

3. Following from 2., it would be much better all round simply to cut the crap and just admit, "We've not been doing very well, it's rather embarrassing, so we are re-doubling our efforts to get it right. Sorry." '

Thank you Ealing Bee as those two points are exactly right.

 

[Untouchable]

“Hi Trevor,

Are you a fan of Blue Peter?

Hope so because here is some bullshit I wrote earlier...”

 

[abee]

“Hi Trevor,

Thanks for your email to Mark and I..........”

Not the greatest start!

Any fule know that it should have been........... 'Thanks for your email to I and Mark':

KP's job title is now elevated to Director Marketing, Insight and English':

 

[westwing]

I've not been able to buy a ticket online since the changes.
I've now been given a new password, will never remember it,
it looks like the remains from a spilt tin of alphabetti spagetti.
The website is a f'kin shambles!!

 

[abee]

2. When I start to read an "explanation" like that supplied to 'Banana', it does not mollify me in the least! Quite the contrary in fact, full as it is of irritating jargon and transparent excuses and evasions, designed no doubt to obscure, exculpate and deflect.

Spot on.

And we all know I'm sure that this is word for word the crap that will be delivered to the BFC board at their next meeting when they'll all be nodding their heads and noting that the issues have been fixed.

 

[PJ]

Reads like it was written by Ricky Gervais

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Didnt know they had published those numbers.

Oh, I thought I read the figures on here last week? Can’t remember the thread

 

[sonofabee]

No, I have complete faith in the club getting this right, they have obstacles to overcome but appear to be heading in the right direction. As said previously a great update from Kurt providing some details on the background to some of the issues raised on the GPG.

Where’s your fishing rod ? It’s 6 months in and it’s not got any better?

 

[Guildford Bee]

The WBA tickets 'being aligned' with QPR priorities is an outright lie imo. There is no need whatsoever to prioritise sales on a Monday night game that's live on TV, he knows that as well as we do, if he doesn't he shouldn't be anywhere near the ticketing aspect of the club.

Agreed, this is appears to be total bullshit. There is no way that game will come close to selling out. Putting WBA games on general sale would’ve also allowed fans to buy tickets for both games. They didn’t because the system can’t do it.

 

[Adam]

As I communicated to Adam cc’d,

Must have gone to my junk folder.

 

[Lush55]

A "site" should be FULLY snagged before being launched........we spent a small fortune a few years ago on a fully bookable travel site.
We spent 4 months "snagging".....getting friends and family "booking"......each time something was found, it was reported to the developers and fixed.

We went live after full scrutiny and paid the monies.........the company booked flights,hotels,transfers,car hire,attraction tickets,insurance and airport parking as well as linking to buying currency.
Not only that "the client" could also read about their chosen destination,hotel etc.
Everything booked and tickets and confirmations emailed within 5 - 10 minutes........with multiple choices and including E-Tickets..

YOU KURT........ONLY HAVE TO SELL A TICKET......'KIN 'EL

Now......I have not written that for the benefit of my fellow GPG peeps....................!

I HAVE WRITTEN IT IN THE FRIGGIN HOPE THAT KURT READS THIS ...........IT 'AINT HARD MATE........YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF TRUE BEES. THAT I AM SURE IF ASKED,WOULD HAVE HELPED TO SNAG YOUR PRECIOUS SITE.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN "SNAGGED" WITHIN A MONTH.!

All you write is that things need to be put in place for LR, I sincerely hope MB asks the question as above.
I have never ever heard and read so much BULLSH!T in my life, as a long term BEE it is embarrassing that other supporters from other clubs read these threads........it's a fekin joke!
"The journey" as you describe it, is time consuming and frustrating......if you cant get it right, take it down, use the old system until it is right....or get a company in that CAN get it right....'aint friggin hard.........fek me!!!

Let me know Kurt if you want a couple of recommendations to companies that CAN deliver properly!

Sorry my fellow peeps for shouting........but........jeez!!

 

[Slabs]

I still can't buy a ticket for my daughter, and get her member discount, when I am logged in to my account. As I buy all her tickets I now have to log in as her but this is not acceptable. I brought West Brom tickets for us both today but both are under my name as she can't be chosen in the drop down.
I emailed the club at the beginning of the season about this and still no reply!

 

[Banana]

Much of what I was going to say has been said above.

However it seems to me that the club don't think that there are issues. It's all perfectly fine. Customer Journeys are "subjective". We can sell 4,000 tickets in a day etc. etc. etc

There is no acknowledgement that the system was sh*t, is sh*t, and, it seems, will continue being sh*t.


I hope that there's someone at the club that can see through this BS

 

[rebus]

Seems almost everything is OK.

Nothing to worry about but people must learn to use the system we have developed although it is non intuitive and badly thought out.

Think I have just about summed up the reply.

Close thread. This is all that’s needed.

However, I welcome Kurt’s latest apology but why did it need a Richter scale email from :banana: to get this? Good marketing is also knowing when you’ve messed up and to communicate that. Nothing to see here, move along is the KP way of doing things.

Never mind the GPG, this statement should be on the website with his name front and centre. Own the problem, Kurt.

 

[abee]

Much of what I was going to say has been said above.

However it seems to me that the club don't think that there are issues. It's all perfectly fine. Customer Journeys are "subjective". We can sell 4,000 tickets in a day etc. etc. etc

There is no acknowledgement that the system was sh*t, is sh*t, and, it seems, will continue being sh*t.


I hope that there's someone at the club that can see through this BS

Did you get any response at all to your email from Mark Devlin, Dave Merritt or Donald Kerr or is Kurt simply left to 'investigate and report' on his own mess??

If Kurt's report to you is as I suspect the one he delivers to the BFC board then heaven help us all.

I'm not sure who that elusive 'someone at the club' could be.........Mark Devlin insists that everything is great and the BFC board either don't understand the issue or don't much care..........probably both.

 

[Hamburger Hill]

Used the new site a few times and it works okay for me. It looks a bit basic but seems to work for me? Am I just lucky?

 

[Babbelfish]

I still can't buy a ticket for my daughter, and get her member discount, when I am logged in to my account. As I buy all her tickets I now have to log in as her but this is not acceptable. I brought West Brom tickets for us both today but both are under my name as she can't be chosen in the drop down.
I emailed the club at the beginning of the season about this and still no reply!

I have the same issue for my son :-(

 

[JCMcBee]

I have the same issue for my son :-(

...me too mate...sadly....i now phone the TO for his ticket.

 

[Banana]

Email sent earlier:

Kurt

This doesn't really help me. I am not confusing or conflating the issues of the QPR ticketing process and the ticketing system itself. What has happened is that promised improvements haven't happened, ticket sales have been delayed, you are currently having to sell tickets on out of date TAP points, you have to email supporters their TAP points, the list goes on and on.

Why are the WBA sales process in lock-step with the QPR sales process? How does not having WBA tickets on General Sale make it easier for a fan to buy tickets for both games? Are you able to, today, able to sell tickets online on general sales for the WBA game whilst keeping the QPR on sale in tiers as they are now?

Whilst I admire your chutzpah in claiming that the journeys are "subjective" and there is someone out there somewhere that thinks they are equal to the best ones in the world, the facts are that the user journeys are really, really poor. I would really prefer an honest and frank assessment of the club's of the ticketing system and how you are going to resolve them. I am not asking for me, there are many, many supporters that are fed-up with it. There are four long threads on the GPG and a host of comments elsewhere on social media. If I had the time I would document the Everton and Brentford journeys side by side. Perhaps you should get a review done of the journeys by an expert in the matter? or perhaps you can ask Everton for assistance?

I did ask for a list of what you, or the club, believe to be the remaining issues with the ticketing system. Can you please provide? If I could have that, and the straightforward answer to my question above then that will do me for your reply.

I don't need a long email, I just want to know what the problems are as the club perceives them and what you are doing about them. That list must exist mustn't it?!


Thanks

 

[sonofabee]

Email sent earlier:

Well done Nana

 

[Doovster]

Email sent earlier:

Good work. We need a dog with a bone but why on earth are the 'alleged' supporter directors on the board not all over this like a rash. Maybe those seats are a little too comfy to rock the boat?

 

[Vid]

Just this......."and have begun releasing ‘how to guides’ for fans" says it all.

 

[amersfoort bee]

"I just want to know what the problems are as the club perceives them and what you are doing about them".

Reply from BFC will probably be along the lines of:-

Afraid this is commercially confidential information however I can assure you that they will all be resolved very shortly.

Note: this e-mail is dated 16th May 2019 and a tear in the time/space continuum has meant that it has been sent out early so we have until the start of the 2019 season to get everything up and running correctly but cannot guarantee that this will happen. There will be no problems with the allocation/distribution of the tickets for our first home game v Man. Utd as high demand is not anticipated.

 

[Banana]

Just this......."and have begun releasing ‘how to guides’ for fans" says it all.

Indeed. "How to use a web site"

Can you imagine, Google or Uber or Deliveroo doing the same?

 

[Vid]

Indeed. "How to use a web site"

Can you imagine, Google or Uber or Deliveroo doing the same?

Well yes but then I have a viVid imagination :scratch:
It might help if the "How to" was linked into the webpage. Instead you have to follow the clues on a separate page with a bl00dy Sherlock Holmes magnifying glass and memorise it.

 

[Jezybee]

It’s also worth noting that we achieved record sales in one day for the match against Arsenal, 4,000 tickets were sold on day one and 80% of these were online. Our previous record was the recent FA Cup tie against Chelsea (1,000 in day one).

Is the implication also that the old ticket website could not have handled 3,200 transactions in a day? Worst case scenario, say they were all compressed into a 5 hour window and each transaction bought 1 ticket only. Still only approx 10 transactions a minute which is hardly a huge amount of data.

Is a more likely explanation for the traffic just that 2 to 3,000 people put up with the current online ticket buying process because they really wanted to attend a game against a team we haven’t played competitively since the last ice age and where the ticket purchasing window was short?

Maybe that’s the idea - self selection. Only those that are committed to attending by jumping through hoops on the ticketing website are deemed worthy of entering to watch the team.

The biggest disappointment is that it feels like it’s up to casual observers on here to come up with a multitude of observations and questions to those responsible / accountable for this project. Really these should be being asked internally from Board level all the way down but, from the evidence of glacial change/improvement, appear not to be.

 

[Houghton Bee]

Even on 4000 day the online system went wrong and allowed people to buy tickets who were not season ticket holders, for at least 15 minutes before the official sale start time of 10am

 

[rebus]

You may or may not be interested to know that our online transactions are now the highest they’ve ever been, tracking at 70% against last season’s high of 65%.

Classic defection and a system of marketing bullshit to use numbers that are effectively meaningless to indicate some sort of improvement. You can tell this kind of nonsense gets lobbed Into the board pack on a regular basis without being questioned afterwards.

What he hides is that:

a) this percentage includes the Arsenal game which skews the figures massively; at least 80 per cent would have ordered them online; there were 9000 tickets to flog.

@Banana - one to ask him is what is the online transaction percentage figure so far for home league games only, as apposed to last season?

b) he misses out is that the figure would have been higher if the system had worked correctly. I have no doubt there has been drop offs online and people have called or visited the club instead.

c) 70 per cent is a piss poor figure for this day and age of using the internet for match tickets - most other championship clubs must be in the high 80s to 90s.

 

[Banana]

Classic defection and a system of marketing bullshit to use numbers that are effectively meaningless to indicate some sort of improvement. You can tell this kind of nonsense gets lobbed Into the board pack on a regular basis without being questioned afterwards.

What he hides is that:

a) this percentage includes the Arsenal game which skews the figures massively; at least 90 per cent would have ordered them online; there were 9000 tickets to flog.

@Banana - one to ask him is what is the online transaction percentage figure so far for home league games only, as apposed to last season?

b) he misses out is that the figure would have been higher if the system had worked correctly. I have no doubt there has been drop offs online and people have called or visited the club instead.

c) 70 per cent is a piss poor figure for this day and age of using the internet for match tickets - most other championship clubs must be in the high 80s to 90s.

I have no interest in the capacity of the system. It's supplied as a service so SecuTix can take credit for that. Besides I am sure that Everton sell more on the same platform.

What I am interested in is our supporters individual experiences.

 

[Judio1999]

Not being able to park outside the Ground at 10 when tickets go on sale will also increase the online number

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Classic defection and a system of marketing bullshit to use numbers that are effectively meaningless to indicate some sort of improvement. You can tell this kind of nonsense gets lobbed Into the board pack on a regular basis without being questioned afterwards.

What he hides is that:

a) this percentage includes the Arsenal game which skews the figures massively; at least 80 per cent would have ordered them online; there were 9000 tickets to flog.

@Banana - one to ask him is what is the online transaction percentage figure so far for home league games only, as apposed to last season?

b) he misses out is that the figure would have been higher if the system had worked correctly. I have no doubt there has been drop offs online and people have called or visited the club instead.

c) 70 per cent is a piss poor figure for this day and age of using the internet for match tickets - most other championship clubs must be in the high 80s to 90s.

Those numbers mean nothing. And just another way of trying to justify what they do.

I really do worry about who is running our club off the pitch.