Long Throw-In Effectiveness

[Banana]

 

[jbee]

View attachment 30246

But we must stop because it makes us look League One apparently...

 

[Chomp]

Total football eat your heart out.

 

[Peteseeger]

There is a Sky rumour that CE has been brought in as he is able to put swerve on his throw ins.

 

[Hippobee]

Great stat. ?‍

Remind me how many goals these have led to compared to other teams, then it might get interesting.

I would argue with the height we have in the team, our throws and corners should be much more successful than they appear to have been.

 

[AB]

Great stat. ?‍

Remind me how many goals these have led to compared to other teams, then it might get interesting.

I would argue with the height we have in the team, our throws and corners should be much more successful than they appear to have been.

I think the graph shows we get a lot of shots from throws. But we’ve only got a couple of goals from them (I think) so the issue is about quality of chance created and our finishing.

 

[North London Bee]

No, it is about making the most of what we have ad we have more chance of creating an opportunity from a long throw than by playing ti short some are correct to keep trying them.

 

[Jay Bee]

I think the graph shows we get a lot of shots from throws. But we’ve only got a couple of goals from them (I think) so the issue is about quality of chance created and our finishing.

Could they plot it against XG created from throws, rather than total shots or total goals?

if it only creates hopeless shots from 30 yards then it is probably not that effective. presumably have club have done something similar and decided it creates better xG chances than a short quick throw followed by an attempted dribble / cross etc.

 

[Jay Bee]

But we must stop because it makes us look League One apparently...

Ruining the graph for the proper clubs too who are all so clustered together with their 0 and 1 shots.

 

[sheffbee]

Would be interesting to know who is the best at this ( for us I mean.) MBS seems miles better at it than the others that have tried , but he maybe doesn't play often enough to perfect it.

 

[TheHairdresser]

What I'd like to see are the stats or chances created from quickly taken, short throw-ins that lead directly/indirectly to 'goal attacks'.

The irony is a couple of yrs ago this site would've been digging out teams who loaded up on long throw-ins but since we apparently reinvented the wheel it somehow makes the tactic work during the entirety of a PL match (it doesn't btw).

PS.
How many counter-attacks have been created by the opposition on the back of our own long throw-ins this season?

 

[rhbee]

Could they plot it against XG created from throws, rather than total shots or total goals?

if it only creates hopeless shots from 30 yards then it is probably not that effective. presumably have club have done something similar and decided it creates better xG chances than a short quick throw followed by an attempted dribble / cross etc.

 

[jbee]

What I'd like to see are the stats or chances created from quickly taken, short throw-ins that lead directly/indirectly to 'goal attacks'.

The irony is a couple of yrs ago this site would've been digging out teams who loaded up on long throw-ins but since we apparently reinvented the wheel it somehow makes the tactic work during the entirety of a PL match (it doesn't btw).

PS.
How many counter-attacks have been created by the opposition on the back of our own long throw-ins this season?

Impressive levels of denial here. With regard to your first paragraph, the relative efficiency of short throws is pretty clearly implicit in the graph no?

 

[TheHairdresser]

Impressive levels of denial here. With regard to your first paragraph, the relative efficiency of short throws is pretty clearly implicit in the graph no?

Match analysis isn't just about one graph of stats though is it?

 

[jbee]

Match analysis isn't just about one graph of stats though is it?

But the one graph can refute the idea that our throw-ins don't work and does so pretty clearly.

 

[TheHairdresser]

But the one graph can refute the idea that our throw-ins don't work and does so pretty clearly.

It's confirmation bias as the graph only highlights goal attacks, and any tactic that is effectively a bombardment of an opposition's penalty box will inevitably score high on the xG chart.

How many goals did we score directly from this tactic last season?

 

[jbee]

It's confirmation bias as the graph only highlights goal attacks, and any tactic that is effectively a bombardment of an opposition's penalty box will inevitably score high on the xG chart.

How many goals did we score directly from this tactic last season?

The xG refers to any shot within 10 actions of a throw in the last third of the pitch. I am baffled as to what tactic from a throw doesn't include a "goal attack" within 10 actions. It is very rare to even retain possession for that long in the final third unless you are Man City.

 

[GP200]

............yep,just had Tony Pulis on the phone..........proper non League...............

 

[hanworthbee]

Leaving aside arsenal I don't recall it being very effective at all

 

[WestStandBee]

Leaving aside arsenal I don't recall it being very effective at all

I thought the same thing until I saw this graph. I guess this is why we leave the footballing stuff to the actual experts.

 

[ruislip bee]

I think Pontas's goal came from a long throw too. Flicked on by Forss.

 

[AB]

The xG refers to any shot within 10 actions of a throw in the last third of the pitch. I am baffled as to what tactic from a throw doesn't include a "goal attack" within 10 actions. It is very rare to even retain possession for that long in the final third unless you are Man City.

Given the graph, your bafflement must extend to the vast majority of games and what happens when almost every other club in the PL gets a throw in.

 

[jbee]

Given the graph, your bafflement must extend to the vast majority of games and what happens when almost every other club in the PL gets a throw in.

I am sure they are all intending to get a shot within ten actions, they are just not succeeding as often as we are. Often they probably don't think about it much, considering it a minor part of the game. We are finding marginal gains as usual.

 

[jlove]

It's abundantly clear that, in the absence of a team of world-class players and against oppositions that are effective at minimising our progress in open play into the final third, we need to optimise opportunities created by dead ball situation in that final third – as Pep Guardiola has observed more than once. Long throws are part of that and we clearly train for it. Our ability to create opportunities is clearly identified in these graphs (a pity that FCM are not included), so it's quite odd that any Bees fan wants to belittle it.

 

[Twickenhamben]

Great stat but still trying to remember the last time we actually scored from the throw in….. personally I think waiting for either Ethan or Mads Bech to trot over to take a long throw totally sucks out the attacking momentum we’ve built up and allows the opposition to set themselves for the set piece.

 

[AB]

Great stat but still trying to remember the last time we actually scored from the throw in….. personally I think waiting for either Ethan or Mads Bech to trot over to take a long throw totally sucks out the attacking momentum we’ve built up and allows the opposition to set themselves for the set piece.

We’ve scored at least twice this way. Arsenal and Watford at home. That’s 6 points straight off.

 

[Twickenhamben]

We’ve scored at least twice this way. Arsenal and Watford at home. That’s 6 points straight off.

Watford was a cross and a penalty. Arsenal yes so definitely 3 points… wonder how many more goals we could have scored if we had shown more urgency in our attacks rather than slow the game down by waiting for a long throw.

 

[AB]

Watford was a cross and a penalty. Arsenal yes so definitely 3 points… wonder how many more goals we could have scored if we had shown more urgency in our attacks rather than slow the game down by waiting for a long throw.

We’d be top 4 no doubt. Frank out.

 

[Twickenhamben]

We’d be top 4 no doubt. Frank out.

Of course…. Because making an observation about the effectiveness of a tactic we use automatically, to some of our fan base, is tantamount to calling for Frank to be sacked and moaning about why we’re not in a top 4 position…. You know you can believe Frank is doing a good job, that it’s great to be in this league and also be critical of our playing style and it’s effectiveness at times; they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[AB]

Of course…. Because making an observation about the effectiveness of a tactic we use automatically, to some of our fan base, is tantamount to calling for Frank to be sacked and moaning about why we’re not in a top 4 position…. You know you can believe Frank is doing a good job, that it’s great to be in this league and also be critical of our playing style and it’s effectiveness at times; they are not mutually exclusive.

Just joking. I’ve no idea if we could be doing better with what we have if deployed differently. But we could probably be doing a lot worse.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Is it effective because we are one of the only teams bothering to try it. ??‍

 

[Mr Cynical]

Son: So, Dad, tell me again about Brentford's first season in the Premier League?!!

Dad: Oh, son, you wouldn't believe it! It was amazing! We had more shots from long throws than ANY other team!!!

Son: Wow! Did all Premier League teams use long throws back then?

Dad: Shutup kid, you weren't there.. Eat your breakfast...

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Son: So, Dad, tell me again about Brentford's first season in the Premier League?!!

Dad: Oh, son, you wouldn't believe it! It was amazing! We had more shots from long throws than ANY other team!!!

Son: Wow! Did all Premier League teams use long throws back then?

Dad: Shutup kid, you weren't there.. Eat your breakfast...

Why do you go?

 

[Mr Cynical]

Why do you go?

Because I'm a masochist! ?

 

[nick logan]

I thought the same thing until I saw this graph. I guess this is why we leave the footballing stuff to the actual experts.

post of the decade

 

[aslan]

Watford was a cross and a penalty. Arsenal yes so definitely 3 points… wonder how many more goals we could have scored if we had shown more urgency in our attacks rather than slow the game down by waiting for a long throw.

Like the other teams do? I mean, you just have to look at the graph...

 

[Shamrock_Bee]

We have went from 'the Barcelona of the lower leagues' to the Wimbledon or Stoke of the PL ?. The stats are clear to see though so can't argue with the chances the tactic is creating, actual goals though might show something else.

It is year one so if long balls and throw ins get us a second season we'll all be happy with that. Hopefully in time we'll find a way to transfer our Championship style to the PL but small steps.

 

[SmiffyBee]

Imagine a Pinnock javelin throw tomorrow, from the half way line with a bit of wind behind it....whooooosh !

 

[SmiffyBee]

Imagine a Pinnock javelin throw tomorrow, from the half way line with a bit of wind behind it....whooooosh !

Total Football !

?☝️

 

[ruislip bee]

Total Football !

?☝️

Yep, cut out the middle men

 

[psg150]

View attachment 30246

Wow.

 

[Chomp]

Another graphic taken from The Athletic.

10 (TEN) teams haven’t produced 1 shot from any of their throw ins, the snobs!

 

[badgerbee]

Another graphic taken from The Athletic.

10 (TEN) teams haven’t produced 1 shot from any of their throw ins, the snobs!

What does it mean?
The next activity straight after a throw in is a shot?
Or, a shot is taken within x number of passes after a throw in? (What is x?)

(Questions not necessarily directed at you @Chomp )

 

[Hungerford Bee]

What does it mean?
The next activity straight after a throw in is a shot?
Or, a shot is taken within x number of passes after a throw in? (What is x?)

(Questions not necessarily directed at you @Chomp )

The Athletic says:

"They have scored three goals within a single phase of play following a throw-in (eg, a throw-in followed by a flick-on then a shot) — the other 19 Premier League sides combined have scored two goals from throw-ins."

 

[badgerbee]

The Athletic says:

"They have scored three goals within a single phase of play following a throw-in (eg, a throw-in followed by a flick-on then a shot) — the other 19 Premier League sides combined have scored two goals from throw-ins."

?Ah, OK, thanks for the explanation.
So presumably the same criteria for "shots following throws", as goals scored.

 

[GABS]

Across all set plays we are clear in 1st place for highest xG ????

 

[Edmundo]

Yes, but behind Liverpool and Man City in actual goals scored.

 

[Banana]

FFS, we should start playing on spreadsheets. We'd be European Champions by now.

 

[GABS]

Yes, but behind Liverpool and Man City in actual goals scored.

Disgraceful isn't it

 

[coconino]

No more towelling our balls next season