Mental Strength?

[unBEEliveable]

I have noticed that in the League if the opposition scores first then we have so far been unable to come back into the game and have lost each time. I haven’t been to many games this season so was wondering if there was a noticeable loss of confidence after we go to a goal down in games?

Do we have the mental strength to recover from going a goal down and come back to win the game or even rescue a point?

 

[Low End Bee]

We haven't had a proper 'captain' for a long time. The sort of bloke you'd like next to you in the trenches wearing the armband would help.

 

[condorman]

I thought Douglas might be the blood and thunder skipper we need but he frankly went into hiding on Saturday as the game went on around him.

 

[Stanley]

Good point...it has been a problem for years. We are just not a club that comes back from the dead. 1-0 down and it is always a mountain to climb, 2-0 down and you can call it a day.

Maybe MA's team could come back but even they struggled, not since Coppell's team have we had a team that you felt had the mental strength to come from behind with any regularity.

This was the worst thing about Saturday, as UR has himself admitted ,at 2-0 down they all collectively threw in the towel. A couple of times Adams was taking a throw in and there was literally no one to pass to…nobody wanted the ball, a sure sign of defeatism.

 

[King Bee]

I have noticed that in the League if the opposition scores first then we have so far been unable to come back into the game and have lost each time. I haven’t been to many games this season so was wondering if there was a noticeable loss of confidence after we go to a goal down in games?

Do we have the mental strength to recover from going a goal down and come back to win the game or even rescue a point?

There is a definitely a confidence issue here both in relation to the players themselves and the home crowd! For the players, I think it stems from the conceding that last minute goal at the Colchester game which would have seen us go 2nd. I think that was a bigger game than many of us appreciate. For the crowd, there is always that "it's Brentford, innit" attitude that seems to pervade us all when things don’t go our way – that saps the atmosphere and only adds to the players’ apprehension.

The first issue is down to the management, the second is down to us as fans. What can we do? On Saturday I was hearing things such as “move the away support to Ealing Road” or “move the dugouts back to Braemar Road” as answers to improving the atmosphere at the ground. I think the first move has been ruled out altogether, and I’ve yet to hear any moans from Uwe about his inability to communicate with the players from the New Road side...but I kind of agree with the earlier thread about the lack of atmosphere lately at GP. Even when we're winning games, we’re hardly shouting it from the rafters...

 

[Brickie Chap]

Letting Andy ****ing Scott get his own way with the dug outs is still costing us. We are now cursed.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Letting Andy ****ing Scott get his own way with the dug outs is still costing us. We are now cursed.

Prior to dugout movement, 2 seasons 4 home loses.

 

[King Bee]

Good point...it has been a problem for years. We are just not a club that comes back from the dead. 1-0 down and it is always a mountain to climb, 2-0 down and you can call it a day.

Maybe MA's team could come back but even they struggled, not since Coppell's team have we had a team that you felt had the mental strength to come from behind with any regularity.

This was the worst thing about Saturday, as UR has himself admitted ,at 2-0 down they all collectively threw in the towel. A couple of times Adams was taking a throw in and there was literally no one to pass to…nobody wanted the ball, a sure sign of defeatism.

Can someone remind me here, when did the Wendy House cease being the home end? Was it pre-Coppell or post Coppell?

 

[CTBee]

Can someone remind me here, when did the Wendy House cease being the home end? Was it pre-Coppell or post Coppell?

It was defintely the home end under Coppell and under Allen as well; which used to produce some great atmosphere's especially under lights

 

[JTofBFC]

Prior to dugout movement, 2 seasons 4 home loses.

Not convinced there isn't something in this theory. I think the club should seriously consider moving them back even if it does cost money !

 

[hanworthbee]

lots of clubs do things which they think will bring luck ie get priests in to get rid of bad spirits, raindances whatever all in the name of luck...we could do worse

 

[Ambrose_1889]

Won't happen but the dug outs should definitely be moved back to their rightful side of the ground.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

When we moved from BR to ER is when we lost the atmosphere.
Many times over last few seasons we got outsung by couple of hundred away fans.

 

[Bungy Bee]

Although mental strength comes into it.....I also think tactics....team formation....also play a big part I believe UR set out a team to nullify Udders....rather than play to our own strengths...is it true we only had one striker up top in the first half....at home as well....about all these loan players....maybee it's something in their contract to say that they must play first team football....ahead of our regular players....

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Sorry but you are not going to get mental strength, the "come on lads we can do this" sort of attitude with so many loan players and new bees. There are not enough players out there playing for the shirt, and too many playing for themselves. We have not got the sort of Terry Evans captain who can inspire and set an example and as soon as we go a goal down we are easy meat.
Dont blame the crowd, if there is bugger all spirit on the pitch its damn nigh impossible to build an atmosphere. Those Carling Cup nights last season show what a good crowd we can have who get behind the team, at Birmingham you could barely hear yourself speak for the noise the Bees fans were making and at home against Everton the support was terrific. Our teams in those games were man for man probably not as high a standard as the current lot, the difference was they all were motivated and wanted it. Alright it all went tits up in the end last season and Scott couldn't turn it round but it does show what a bit of team spirit can do for the side and the fans.

 

[The Pipe]

Sorry but you are not going to get mental strength, the "come on lads we can do this" sort of attitude with so many loan players and new bees. There are not enough players out there playing for the shirt, and too many playing for themselves. We have not got the sort of Terry Evans captain who can inspire and set an example and as soon as we go a goal down we are easy meat.
Dont blame the crowd, if there is bugger all spirit on the pitch its damn nigh impossible to build an atmosphere. Those Carling Cup nights last season show what a good crowd we can have who get behind the team, at Birmingham you could barely hear yourself speak for the noise the Bees fans were making and at home against Everton the support was terrific. Our teams in those games were man for man probably not as high a standard as the current lot, the difference was they all were motivated and wanted it. Alright it all went tits up in the end last season and Scott couldn't turn it round but it does show what a bit of team spirit can do for the side and the fans.

I would suggest that the fixture played a significant part in engendering a team spirit which was so sadly lacking in the other games such as Yeovil away and the ill fated daggenham game.

I dont buy into the beleif that loan players dont care and would refer you Simon Cox who when on loan with us tried to play with a broken leg!! team spirit comes from within and in the main all players want to perform either because they are the clubs player, or because they want to impress their home club so they can play when the loan finishes.

As far as Brentford are concerned I do not beleive team spirit is an issue at all, what is obvious to all, and has been the case for many a year is that we do not have natural leaders on the pitch, most are a squiet as a mouse. We need a player who is perfectly happy to give a b***ocking to his team mates during a game, who can organise the team when not working and who can put an arm round a team mate when its going tits up. On sat I felt Karleigh needed an arm round his shoulder early on but none of the captains ( 3 were on the pitch) did anything!!

I have argued all along that one of Roslers priorities was to bring in a captain who could lead the team, I hoped that Douglas would be that man but unfortunately that is not the case. The only player who might fill the roll would be Alexander although he would not be my first choice forward presuming we obtain someone who is half decent.

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

Excellent post (as usual) Mr Pipe. It's not a lack of mental strength, nor a lack of spirit that's the problem, it's the derth of natural leaders in the side. Huddersfield had leaders right through the side on Saturday who never stopped talking, either to their teammates or to the referee all afternoon.

 

[Beat Poet]

Huddersfield had leaders right through the side on Saturday who never stopped talking, either to their teammates or to the referee all afternoon.

How long has this Huddersfools team been together though? Obviously I don't know, but confidence and cohesion does run through a settled squad. We never had that under AS and this is a development year for Uwe. I imagine that, given the injuries, his endless tinkering is actually him trying to find a plan B or C, as the first choice players will eventually return, the team will settle and then there'll injuries again.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

I would suggest that the fixture played a significant part in engendering a team spirit which was so sadly lacking in the other games such as Yeovil away and the ill fated daggenham game.

I dont buy into the beleif that loan players dont care and would refer you Simon Cox who when on loan with us tried to play with a broken leg!! team spirit comes from within and in the main all players want to perform either because they are the clubs player, or because they want to impress their home club so they can play when the loan finishes.

As far as Brentford are concerned I do not beleive team spirit is an issue at all, what is obvious to all, and has been the case for many a year is that we do not have natural leaders on the pitch, most are a squiet as a mouse. We need a player who is perfectly happy to give a b***ocking to his team mates during a game, who can organise the team when not working and who can put an arm round a team mate when its going tits up. On sat I felt Karleigh needed an arm round his shoulder early on but none of the captains ( 3 were on the pitch) did anything!!

I have argued all along that one of Roslers priorities was to bring in a captain who could lead the team, I hoped that Douglas would be that man but unfortunately that is not the case. The only player who might fill the roll would be Alexander although he would not be my first choice forward presuming we obtain someone who is half decent.

I'm glad we agree about the need for a captain as your opinion is one that I value.
The role of a captain in a football team is often underestimated as it would appear to be far less important than say for example the captain of a cricket team.
Capello made the same mistake and look where it got him!
There are obvious examples of this type of leader that can b***ock, cajole, coax, console etc as necessary and lead by example. some of these I loath but their contribution to a team is over and above their playing ability. I can think of John Terry, Roy Keane and Beckham to name but a few where this has been the case.
I cannot see a likely candidate at Brentford at the moment except just possibly Legge but Saturday, Preston, and Tranmere certainly show the need for one.

 

[wayfarer172]

When we moved from BR to ER is when we lost the atmosphere.
Many times over last few seasons we got outsung by couple of hundred away fans.

It was noticable on Bees Player too. The 'Udderfield fans were making enough noise to waken the dead.

 

[Invipai]

The Ealing Road fans can make a lot of noise, however they make noise in responce to seeing something good on the pitch, rather than making noise to try and inspire something good to happen on the pitch. It's not a wonder however that Huddersfield were making the more noise on Saturday.

As for mental strength, I think it's more a lack of belief. When we go 2-0 up, such as against Yeovil and Layton, we play a lot better because we have no strong threat to the game, so they play with the freedom which I think Rosler's always trying to inspire in them. But when we're 1-0 down that confidence goes, they fear the result and make basic errors. I also however think that we don't always have to go all out attack at home, there is no shame in sitting back against the strong teams even at home, then try and hit them on the break. The last two years we beat Hudders 3-0 and then a 0-1 loss in the 90th minute, but they were better results because we set up a team that was hard to beat. While we play much better footall now, we're not setting us up as a team who are difficult to beat and frustrate the big teams.

 

[wayfarer172]

I don't go along with this mental strength sh*te. Fans often turn up not only to see there side win but also because a certain player excites them. An example of this was George Best. IThey use to say he put 10,000 on the gate where ever he played. Now I'm not suggesting we can bring in players like him as they are well out of our league, but we have had players who used to really get the fans going. Johnny Brooks,Dia Ward, Jim Towers,George Francis, Tony Mahony, Dean Holdsworth, Terry Evans, Terry Hurlock to name a few.These players would have died for BFC,the passion was there for all to see. There is not one single player on our books atm who warrants the captains armband. Someone suggested Leon Legge,hmm interesting one that.
Like all you good people on the gpg, I'm desparate to see Uwe succeed. Of course he will make fck ups along the way. Bringing in Clarkson and Grella were two of them. As I've said before I can't get along to games these days so I rely totally on Bees Player, so I take special notice of how any new signing performs. But it's you the regular fans who I listen too most of the time in forming my own opinions. There are some brilliant posters on here. The Pipe, who I think everyone respects and MickC to name just two, but there are others.
Maybe and hopefully some good will come out of last Saturdays defeat. Lets start with Charlton.

 

[grepo]

Defo. need a leader on the pitch. Bring back "the animal" (T.H.)

 

[Balders Bee]

I would suggest that the fixture played a significant part in engendering a team spirit which was so sadly lacking in the other games such as Yeovil away and the ill fated daggenham game.

I dont buy into the beleif that loan players dont care and would refer you Simon Cox who when on loan with us tried to play with a broken leg!! team spirit comes from within and in the main all players want to perform either because they are the clubs player, or because they want to impress their home club so they can play when the loan finishes.

As far as Brentford are concerned I do not beleive team spirit is an issue at all, what is obvious to all, and has been the case for many a year is that we do not have natural leaders on the pitch, most are a squiet as a mouse. We need a player who is perfectly happy to give a b***ocking to his team mates during a game, who can organise the team when not working and who can put an arm round a team mate when its going tits up. On sat I felt Karleigh needed an arm round his shoulder early on but none of the captains ( 3 were on the pitch) did anything!!

I have argued all along that one of Roslers priorities was to bring in a captain who could lead the team, I hoped that Douglas would be that man but unfortunately that is not the case. The only player who might fill the roll would be Alexander although he would not be my first choice forward presuming we obtain someone who is half decent.

Spot on with regards to a Captain. A good captain is worth their weight in gold, they need to cajole, praise, bully and lead by example...Big Tel was the stand out in that respect. Alexander would be a candidate but he is by no means certain of his place which makes it difficult. Douglas has the attributes and is pretty much a nailed on starter but doesn't appear to have the leadership factor and can go MIA during games. Even with a Captain you still need a cadre of experienced players who will also contribute and lead, think back to the team of 91/92 and you had the likes of Blissett,Smillie, Houghton etc. Where is that kind of on pitch leadership now?

That undefinable quantity known as 'team spirit' does take time to develop and I do believe that with the influx of loanees and new players it does take time to develop. Yes of course a loan player will give their best for various reasons but that is quite different from the collective mentality that a tight knit group of players who have grown together have. Look at the old Wimbledon Crazy gang for the ultimate example of this although once again we probably did have it in the 91/92 season. It is the team spirit which raises an average team to heights where they will compete with and defeat a side of arguably greater skill and bigger resource. The current vogue for rotational squads and loan players proliferating in the lower divisions makes it difficult to achieve the team spirit and mental toughness that we are discussing.

Whilst the team are in a transitional stage and you get a large influx of new players or loanees it is difficult to engender this attitude, it was the manner of the defeat against Huddersfield that left so much doubt in peoples mind. Rosler admitted that the most dissappointing aspect was that players gave up after the second goal. If say we had given it a real go and lost there would be less consternation amongst the fans than the capitulation we suffered.

It is obviously something that the management are aware of and will address but it's not something that will happen overnight and will develop when the team becomes more settled, however in the meantime the least we can expect is wholehearted effort and not abject surrender.

 

[bostonhanwell]

When we moved from BR to ER is when we lost the atmosphere.
Many times over last few seasons we got outsung by couple of hundred away fans.

I can't believe that some people miss the wendy house. It's rubbish, a massive mistake and insult to the memory of the Oak. I hope I never have to stand there again.

 

[sonofabee]

Spot on with regards to a Captain. A good captain is worth their weight in gold, they need to cajole, praise, bully and lead by example...Big Tel was the stand out in that respect. Alexander would be a candidate but he is by no means certain of his place which makes it difficult. Douglas has the attributes and is pretty
much a nailed on starter but doesn't appear to have the leadership factor and can go MIA during games. Even with a Captain you still need a cadre of experienced players who will also contribute and lead, think back to the team of 91/92 and you had the likes of Blissett,Smillie, Houghton etc. Where is that kind of on pitch leadership now?

That undefinable quantity known as 'team spirit' does take time to develop and I do believe that with the influx of loanees and new players it does take time to develop. Yes of course a loan player will give their best for various
reasons but that is quite different from the collective mentality that a tight knit group of players who have grown together have. Look at the old Wimbledon Crazy gang for the ultimate example of this although once again we probably did have it in the 91/92 season. It is the team spirit which raises an average team to heights where they will compete with and defeat a side of arguably greater skill and bigger resource. The current vogue for rotational squads and loan players proliferating in the lower divisions makes it difficult to achieve the team spirit and mental toughness that we are discussing
Whilst the team are in a transitional stage and you get a
large influx of new players or loanees it is difficult to engender this attitude, it was the manner of the defeat against Huddersfield that left so much doubt in peoples mind. Rosler admitted that the most dissappointing aspect was that players gave up after the second goal. If say we had given it a real go and lost there would be less
consternation amongst the fans than the capitulation we suffered.

It is obviously something that the management are aware of and will address but it's not something that will happen overnight and will develop when the team becomes more settled, however in the meantime the least we can expect is wholehearted effort and not abject surrender.

We haven't always agreed although obvious we want the same thing but great post.