Mental strength

[The Pipe]

Has been interesting to see the common thread running through the match reports regarding the players ( with some honourable exceptions) " not being up for it" and complaining that we are missing the fighters from the team which got me thinking

In the last 50 or so years whenever push has come to shove we have failed to produce, playoffs, cup finals, important league games yet during that period think of all the barriers we have had playing for us yet none have produced when it mattered

Is there therefore a small club complacency, we are where we are which is our correct position in life. Some of the fans, including myself, are so used to not achieving that it is seen as the norm. Start of season my expectation was not promotion but perhaps that mindset is part of the problem

If me and many like me have limited expectations then perhaps the club as a whole suffers from the same malaise hence when really nattering we don't produce

If that is the case, and please give your thoughts, then perhaps a change of mindset is required from those such as myself from instead of accepting the current status qou demanding that the club overall does better. Not accepting mediocrity but insisting upon success, not being apologetic when players fail to perform but instead making it clear that failure is unacceptable and that hard work and effort are the very minimum we should accept

Some posters on here do exactly that, others because we have accepted our position in life, defend players and try and find a positive, perhaps this is where we are going wrong

Let me know if I am completely off the wall with this!!!
Hard

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I need mental strength to read a lot of posts on here.

 

[maddogging]

I think in some ways it has been the opposite this season and too many people's expectations were sky high. Yes we have a good budget, but so do lots of other teams.
I think many people realised the work Uwe needed to do and for that reason I was happy to give him this season, the big test, and probably expectation for me will be next season when it will be Uwes team.

 

[Bee4ever]

I think you have made some good points Mr Pipe. This club have been haunted with disappointing results at the time when it really mattered. I have been supporting BFC for 60 years now and for me this run of "bad luck" or whatever you may wish to call it, started in 1953 when we got a creditable 0-0 FA Cup draw at Villa Park .Bringing the mighty Villa back to GP for the replay, going in front with a Tommy Lawton header and then losing 2-1 ....in 1955 taking on the mighty Newcastle at St James in the FA Cup holding them at 2-2 til late and then losing 3-2 to a cruel deflection.........1958,,, to be robbed of promotion by Brighton in their last game of the season only to find out in later years that their 6 goal win over Watford had been "fixed".

These were the early ones for me so the heartache has always been there . I wonder sometimes if there is some ancient curse on this Club....Or as the old saying goes....Its Brentford innit ! !

 

[Bigbee]

Ive been thinking a lot about this recently .Stevenage for one seem to have a never do die mentality . You would of though this was a Germanic trait ,maybe it can be instilled to the team over time

 

[shouldbee]

I need mental strength to read a lot of posts on here.

lol

 

[dermotjordan]

Interesting. Mental strength works in other ways too. There is nothing wrong with having high standards & refusing to accept sub standard. That culture lays the platform for success, but is a culture that should be driven by the club to it's staff. We as fans should also have the mental strength to stay supportive at games. On Saturday, after the 2nd penalty miss, the away terrace was clearly deflated & frustrated & I could almost hear the murmurs of it's Brentford innit. Almost, because where I was all I heard was negativity & abuse being shouted at certain players. I am sure that the players felt winded like we did, but then that was when we needed to be at our loudest & mentally strongest to try & inspire them. I understand it's difficult & God knows it's a test. After the game I have no problem with constructive criticism & fair opinion on any performance or individual. I'm not obviating the players from the need to provide the fans with reasons to cheer, but often they need lifting & Saturday was one of those times.

 

[Brentford 4 Life]

Has been interesting to see the common thread running through the match reports regarding the players ( with some honourable exceptions) " not being up for it" and complaining that we are missing the fighters from the team which got me thinking

In the last 50 or so years whenever push has come to shove we have failed to produce, playoffs, cup finals, important league games yet during that period think of all the barriers we have had playing for us yet none have produced when it mattered

Is there therefore a small club complacency, we are where we are which is our correct position in life. Some of the fans, including myself, are so used to not achieving that it is seen as the norm. Start of season my expectation was not promotion but perhaps that mindset is part of the problem

If me and many like me have limited expectations then perhaps the club as a whole suffers from the same malaise hence when really nattering we don't produce

If that is the case, and please give your thoughts, then perhaps a change of mindset is required from those such as myself from instead of accepting the current status qou demanding that the club overall does better. Not accepting mediocrity but insisting upon success, not being apologetic when players fail to perform but instead making it clear that failure is unacceptable and that hard work and effort are the very minimum we should accept

Some posters on here do exactly that, others because we have accepted our position in life, defend players and try and find a positive, perhaps this is where we are going wrong

Let me know if I am completely off the wall with this!!!
Hard

Very interesting post and a losing culture does hang over our club which is holding us back. Benham has given the chance now to change that mentality and it will be interesting to see if we can shake off this negative mindset. I think winning the JPT last year would have been a great foundation for future successes and a massive stride forward in removing our losing culture.

 

[condorman]

I think we should boooooooo the players out. If they then deserve our applause they can have it after the game.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Most clubs lose, there are a few that get lucky and get to the desired level at times but all lower league clubs are generally losers with sob stories aplenty. We haven't been strong enough this season, that's mentaly and physically, money doesn't always buy that but we haven't had a midfield general since Talbot IMO, going backwards I can only remember Radcliffe and Hurlock before him but I'm sure I must be short changing some along the way. Teams feed off this midfielder IMO, throw in a Bliss up front and an Evans behind him and the team will have mental strength as they feed off leaders.
This is all my opinion and most likely rubbish.

 

[Brentford 4 Life]

I think we should boooooooo the players out. If they then deserve our applause they can have it after the game.

Did Genoa recommend this approach?

 

[beebopalula]

Ive been thinking a lot about this recently .Stevenage for one seem to have a never do die mentality . You would of though this was a Germanic trait ,maybe it can be instilled to the team over time

Yea but they'd have died if we could pot a penalty

 

[Balders Bee]

Very interesting post and a losing culture does hang over our club which is holding us back. Benham has given the chance now to change that mentality and it will be interesting to see if we can shake off this negative mindset. I think winning the JPT last year would have been a great foundation for future successes and a massive stride forward in removing our losing culture.

Whilst I accept that history has taught the average Brentford fan to be a born pessimist and expect failure I'm not sure that this extends to the players, by their very nature footballers are a fairly transient and mercenary bunch (the likes of KOC are rarer than Donaldson shot on target) and therefore not saddled with the burden of history and failure that we are. They have failed simply because the opposition has been better on the day.

In linking this with another current thread we are exactly where one could reasonably expect us to be this year in terms of playing budget, club size etc, etc and maybe even sensible aspirations this season. The current squad do lack natural leaders without a doubt and one could argue that CD and Saunders (the latter possibly less so) lacked the mental strength to score in a high pressure game but I think this is about as far as we can take the Mental Strength argument.

Their are a 101 reasons we are where we are and what we are one day when Hayleys comet comes around again I'm sure we will get it all together. I don't think a concerted bout of PMA amongst Fans and Players would hurt but I don't think it will propel the club into the upper echelons of the Football League/Premiership. It's one small part of a much larger whole.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

There does seem to be a general lack of bottle when it is needed in this seasons squad and although I will certainly get shouted down ( again ) for saying it, you are not going to engender the sort of team spirit that we need by filling the team with loanees. Oh yes, I know that they may be better technically than the player they are replacing, but when push comes to shove they have not got the same motivation.
Leon is a perfect example. A good solid defender but rightly criticised for poor distribution. There is no way that anyone can question his commitment though and when the chips are down thats what you need. Remember MK Dons at home, 3 down at half time, who got the equaliser?
You need players who are prepared to put their body on the line, not the likes of McGinn or Donaldson who does a reasonable impression of Drogba on occasions but without the ability to put the ball in the net.
We have lacked team spirit for a while now. We put it down to Scott's poor man management skills for much of last season, got it back for a while with Nicky but then tailed off again. The abysmal lack of atmosphere at home certainly doesn't help but if the crowd doesn't feel that the team is iup for it what can you expect.
Uwe says his bit about looking a player in the eyes to see if he is up for it. Well, I can tell him, a good many of his current squad dont seem to be, so perhaps its not working!

 

[beebopalula]

There does seem to be a general lack of bottle when it is needed in this seasons squad and although I will certainly get shouted down ( again ) for saying it, you are not going to engender the sort of team spirit that we need by filling the team with loanees. Oh yes, I know that they may be better technically than the player they are replacing, but when push comes to shove they have not got the same motivation.
Leon is a perfect example. A good solid defender but rightly criticised for poor distribution. There is no way that anyone can question his commitment though and when the chips are down thats what you need. Remember MK Dons at home, 3 down at half time, who got the equaliser?
You need players who are prepared to put their body on the line, not the likes of McGinn or Donaldson who does a reasonable impression of Drogba on occasions but without the ability to put the ball in the net.
We have lacked team spirit for a while now. We put it down to Scott's poor man management skills for much of last season, got it back for a while with Nicky but then tailed off again. The abysmal lack of atmosphere at home certainly doesn't help but if the crowd doesn't feel that the team is iup for it what can you expect.
Uwe says his bit about looking a player in the eyes to see if he is up for it. Well, I can tell him, a good many of his current squad dont seem to be, so perhaps its not working!

I don't think you lose one in the last 8 without team spirit. We lost on Saturday because two contracted players couldn't score from the spot and then they went in front. It was a situation which must have been quite devastating psychologically. The Stevenage manager rated us as a very good team and perhaps some are being over critical? We have stayed in the hunt until the last two games [ arguably we should still be in it] in a transitional season.

 

[The Pipe]

But history would indicate that irrespective of what players we have when it comes to the push as a club we are found wanting. We are where we are as detailed on a different thread and my concern that there is an acceptance if little old brentford and it's brentford isn't it. Does this then create a self fulfilling prophecy??

No idea but it seems that there is a level of complacency regarding where we are, various managers and players have failed to move us up the pyramid and when it goes tits up there is a general gnashing of teeth followed by meek acceptance

My concern is that this overall acceptance of " mediocrity" is now part of the clubs DNA and therefore a change in mindset from a number of apologists for non production on the pitch, and I firmly include myself in this, is perhaps necessary

 

[Balders Bee]

But history would indicate that irrespective of what players we have when it comes to the push as a club we are found wanting. We are where we are as detailed on a different thread and my concern that there is an acceptance if little old brentford and it's brentford isn't it. Does this then create a self fulfilling prophecy??

No idea but it seems that there is a level of complacency regarding where we are, various managers and players have failed to move us up the pyramid and when it goes tits up there is a general gnashing of teeth followed by meek acceptance

My concern is that this overall acceptance of " mediocrity" is now part of the clubs DNA and therefore a change in mindset from a number of apologists for non production on the pitch, and I firmly include myself in this, is perhaps necessary

Maybe but ultimately it's the players on the pitch who have to achieve success to begin the change of mindset, with all the best will in the world all the GP faithful could start reaching for the stars in their mindset and ambition tomorrow and whilst arguably it would create a better atmosphere at GP (which would be welcome and play a part) we still need the players to do the business on the pitch and as stated in my previous post the mental strength they need to display is of a different kind from us fans and in the players case it's up to the management team to engender in a settled squad of players.

I would be interested to know out of the players and indeed management team how much they know are aware of the history of underachievement (if that the right word to use) of the club.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

There does seem to be a general lack of bottle when it is needed in this seasons squad and although I will certainly get shouted down ( again ) for saying it, you are not going to engender the sort of team spirit that we need by filling the team with loanees. Oh yes, I know that they may be better technically than the player they are replacing, but when push comes to shove they have not got the same motivation.
Leon is a perfect example. A good solid defender but rightly criticised for poor distribution. There is no way that anyone can question his commitment though and when the chips are down thats what you need. Remember MK Dons at home, 3 down at half time, who got the equaliser?
You need players who are prepared to put their body on the line, not the likes of McGinn or Donaldson who does a reasonable impression of Drogba on occasions but without the ability to put the ball in the net.
We have lacked team spirit for a while now. We put it down to Scott's poor man management skills for much of last season, got it back for a while with Nicky but then tailed off again. The abysmal lack of atmosphere at home certainly doesn't help but if the crowd doesn't feel that the team is iup for it what can you expect.
Uwe says his bit about looking a player in the eyes to see if he is up for it. Well, I can tell him, a good many of his current squad dont seem to be, so perhaps its not working!

But Dean and Bidwell showed up more than most, I'm not for loads of loaned players but strangely that's how it was at the weekend.
Saying that, Bidwell blotted his copybook by seeking revenge and lashing out in extra time after Sam had scored, we lost 2 of the 4 minutes.

 

[Whitton Borders Bee]

According to the Stevenage preview of saturdays game we are the only side in the division to have not won a game when we've conceded the first goal. Havent checked the stats but that tells a tale.

 

[Hullbee]

The pipe if it helps I could help you with turning the dark side of negativity. Soon you will be leaving the ground once we go two behind and giving KO the fingers. Be careful what you wish for life on the dark side is not easy particularly on this forum....

 

[bees66]

These were the early ones for me so the heartache has always been there . I wonder sometimes if there is some ancient curse on this Club....Or as the old saying goes....Its Brentford innit ! !

finishing 2nd after Brum in the 90's, losing every cup final since the 80's but having finished in the play-offs, so many times is all Lange fault

 

[Salford Bee]

According to the Stevenage preview of saturdays game we are the only side in the division to have not won a game when we've conceded the first goal. Havent checked the stats but that tells a tale.

We have picked up four points when we conceded the first goal. We also drew at MK Dons when we fell behind in the JPT.

 

[absenteebee]

Part of Its Brentford Innit (IBI) for me is still having that little hope that one day it will be different. Yes it was nearly 20 years ago but Peterboro DID happen. Mr Benham's cash flow ensures the dream of future success is still there.

Two missed pens in the most important game of the season is obviously gonna make people think of previous IBI letdowns though.

Re. Players. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you cannot play down the importance of sport psychology. Its often the difference between winners and losers.

 

[GP200]

...............if the Wrexham team rattled the Bees in the tunnel before the cup game there is something seriously amiss..............

 

[Invipai]

According to the Stevenage preview of saturdays game we are the only side in the division to have not won a game when we've conceded the first goal. Havent checked the stats but that tells a tale.

Actually it's worse than that, the last time we won when coming from behind was against Peterborough Oct 2010. Andy Scott was still in charge.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Actually it's worse than that, the last time we won when coming from behind was against Peterborough Oct 2010. Andy Scott was still in charge.

That is a pretty amazing stat.
It certainly is something that the manager should be taking on board as it would suggest a lack of spirit and confidence which I believe is only too apparent when things are not going well. Its a stupid question but I wonder if Uwe actually knows this!