Neil Shipperley
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rebus
On my final warning
Neil Shipperley
My current guess is somewhere in excess of two.
I think "at least three, maybe four" might be clearer
However all bets are null and void and technically, therefore, I win.
Neil Shipperley
Your second line is an even more funny statement if you don't mind me saying so.
No disrespect to Charlie Ide but he is 18 years old and is hardly going to be able to lead the line for the remainder of the season. He has most certainly shown in flashes that he has a huge amount of potential and could even be our "supersub" for a while, but lets be honest we aren't going to start a match with him and Kuffour up front. He will hopefully play several more matches this year and get a few more goals and maybe next season will be able to develop in a more successful and less stressful situation.
As for Willock, well quite honestly I have seen enough of him to realise that I don't want to see him in a Bees shirt again. Frankly, he is as crap a striker as I can remember and if we can't find someone better than him we can't be looking very hard.
Perhaps I did not make myself very clear. I'm not suggesting we go out and get just anybody, but I've heard various names discussed and I know some of them have had some substance in the rumour and I suspect others have too. Fitzgerald has rejected a number of possibilities and he may not be wrong to do so but we have to keep an eye on the clock.
It is getting to the stage where we need to take a calculated gamble before it is too late. OK, we may end up with another Wijnhard or Fola but if we don't get a couple of wins on the board very soon it will be too late.
If it turns out we (Scott F) have been pinning our hopes for this week on Shipperley and he then goes and signs for someone else leaving us to face Yeovil with Willock leading the line what next.
Move on to next weeks target and more waiting and hoping.
It's decision time and if that means settling for someone like Grazioli then so be it. Personally, I would have been reasonably content to have kept Simon Cox as he is five times the player that Willock is and he might have shown that if we ever played him up front.
If we dont get a striker in soon we are doomed. If that means settling for second or third choice then so be it.
We played a home match last Saturday that arguably we had to win. We didn't even have a striker on the bench. This cannot continue.
Jimbee
Who's the dummy?
Neil Shipperley
I think the problem lies with the number of strikers that have rejected us rather than the other way round.
Mr Cynical
Moderator
rebus
On my final warning
Neil Shipperley
Experienced footballers from a division above us do not want to risk underperforming in a struggling side and will take the easy way out by saying no.
Neil Shipperley
I think there is a bit of both. I certainly know of rumours of a couple that were considered and then not pursued.
Being choosy is not a crime but the clock is ticking and we desperately need somebody in now. I would suggest that two more consecutive defeats and our chances of staying up will reduce from 20% to about 5%.
If we have to make up ten points it will be an impossible task. It is seven points already (goal difference).
We can't afford to wait for Shearer to come out of retirement.
West Ealing Bee
Only Reading
Neil Shipperley
It's not 'not making myself clear', it's a complete contradiction :shrug:
Neil Shipperley
Really. Since when was "somebody" the same as "anybody" ??
You need to read between the lines, a bit like I have to do when reading the local press.
If mine is a contradiction then your description of Willock as a striker is a flagrant breach of the trades descriptions act.
My point is about the fact that the length of time it is taking to get the "ideal" striker is eating into the games we have to stay up. Meantime we persevere with someone who is as far from the description of "ideal" as you can possibly get. I'm sure you can understand the point I am making. If you can't you aren't trying very hard.
West Ealing Bee
Only Reading
Neil Shipperley
I'm quite sure that in an ideal world we would not have two of Ide, Kuffour and Willock up front but they are still better than players we could have and, I would suggest, the best three of the six or so strikers that have played for us this season.
We have bought five of these players in the past year, and brought the other through our youth squad.
We have more chnace of staying up if we get someone decent in on January 31 than if we get someone as good as Wijnhard or Fola in tomorrow, I'm sure you're not suggesting otherwise
If we don't get a good striker we are doomed, even if we had Henry up front we'd struggle to win on Saturday, given the rest of the team and compared to what Yeovil Town have. If we end up with someone crap by rushing in we have no chance of survival, waiting a week as the window begins to close and players looking to move have less options might work in our favour :shrug:
Jimbee
Who's the dummy?
Neil Shipperley
I think the problem is that Fitz lines up Striker A, agrees terms with the Club, the player agrees to come and then changes his mind. Why, I don't know but it has happened more than once since the start of Jan.
Neil Shipperley
It's the missed chances that are killing us. If we lose at Yeovil Town on Saturday and AFC Bournemouth, Leyton Orient and Millwall get results (all at home) we suddenly find ourselves ten points adrift of safety.
I really think waiting till Jan 31st would be suicide. We cannot afford to go into one more match with Willock up front. Your description of him as being amongst the best strikers to play for us this season made me laugh but I really want to cry.
The rest of the team will have to do. We have strengthened, the GK, full back, centre half and midfield. If the signings aren't good enough then blame the person who made them.
There is absolutely no way that waiting a week will work in our favour. If you genuinely want to take the risk we can make up a 10 point gap then you must be the biggest optimist on the planet.
I dont want us to sign somone crap tomorrow but if Shipperley isn't coming (and lets give him an ultimatum) and I assume that Henry isn't either then Fitz has to go with the best option he can think of that will come.
If he gets the wrong man we are down and he is out of a job. If he gets nobody, we are down and he is out of a job. Hobsons choice really.
Lets hope he gets someone that can do a job. Tomorrow.
West Ealing Bee
Only Reading
Neil Shipperley
I don't disagree with much of what you're saying, it's the insistence it has to be tomorrow I can't fathom.
Yes we are missing chances but it is only worth getting someone in who will actually take those chances.
If there are only crap players available tomorrow but there is word from other clubs someone better might be available next week I would rather wait. Your suggestiong that there is no way it will work in our favour is melodramatic IMHO :shrug:
The basic fact is that we are all supposing negotiations between our club and players, no-one really knows what is happening, or they aren't saying if they do.
Yes we are missing chances but it is only worth getting someone in who will actually take those chances.
If there are only crap players available tomorrow but there is word from other clubs someone better might be available next week I would rather wait. Your suggestiong that there is no way it will work in our favour is melodramatic IMHO :shrug:
The basic fact is that we are all supposing negotiations between our club and players, no-one really knows what is happening, or they aren't saying if they do.
Mr Cynical
Moderator
Neil Shipperley
Maybe Fitz made the mistake of letting them see us play first....??
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Neil Shipperley
To be fair, we have rejected some also.
Forster would have been a massive lift for us but alas...............:sad:
Forster would have been a massive lift for us but alas...............:sad:
sonofabee
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Read a good comment by Paul Sturrock yesterday.
http://www.swindontownfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/SturrockDetails/0,,10341~965918,00.html
Paul Sturrock said:
http://www.swindontownfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/SturrockDetails/0,,10341~965918,00.html
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Neil Shipperley
How can anyone be expected to take what you say seriously when you come out with a statement like that? FFS you even show later in the same post that, no, you haven't forgotten about Wijnhard and Onion Bhaji. Both of these players make Willock look like Shearer and if you think getting in a useless lump of nothing like these two tomorrow would improve our chances of survival more than getting in someone who might just might be better than Willock, but not until next week, then I think you've lost touch with reality.
Aberdeen flyer
All a matter of opinion
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Neil Shipperley
That is definitely the case. If anyone believes that Fitz is sitting around doing nowt, they are wrong but to get a proven striker on the wages we are willing to pay, in the position we are in, is proving very difficult.
Westlad
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RoyalOakBee
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Neil Shipperley
My current guess is somewhere in excess of two.
Jimbee, I did say posts not posters!
Can you show me one post on any thread "speculating" to the signing of any of the four players prior to an official announcement by any party?
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
blunstone
Active member
Neil Shipperley
Strikers have always been, and will always be, the hardest players to find. That is why anyone who is half-decent will be snapped-up.
They also expect higher wages than a comparable full back - ask Thierry Henry and Ashley Cole. One was on £100k per week and the other £35,000 p/w.
A scaled-down model applies to the basement divisions as well.
It is too late in the campaign to groom a youngster or non-league wanabee, and the decent players won't come on loan and/or low wages.
We've had two players in on short-term contracts --- they are the sort of player who is available, unfit, too old or not very good.
Maybe Fitz will find a jewel - but don't hold your breath.
I am sure he will, however, find some decent non-league players in the summer.
They also expect higher wages than a comparable full back - ask Thierry Henry and Ashley Cole. One was on £100k per week and the other £35,000 p/w.
A scaled-down model applies to the basement divisions as well.
It is too late in the campaign to groom a youngster or non-league wanabee, and the decent players won't come on loan and/or low wages.
We've had two players in on short-term contracts --- they are the sort of player who is available, unfit, too old or not very good.
Maybe Fitz will find a jewel - but don't hold your breath.
I am sure he will, however, find some decent non-league players in the summer.
Mads Bee
Active member
Neil Shipperley
Going off subject a bit but couldn't post on the OnionBhaji thread as its been closed, (when other about past players are still open).....
Anyway, he could run 100 and 200metres and could run the 200m in 21seconds, he was a GB athlete apprantley!!! Talk about not showing it on the footie pitch, Jo could run faster than him!!! lol
Anyway, he could run 100 and 200metres and could run the 200m in 21seconds, he was a GB athlete apprantley!!! Talk about not showing it on the footie pitch, Jo could run faster than him!!! lol
sonofabee
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Sorry! I didn't doubt at all, was interested in who they might be.
If we were still trailing them I understand that it needs to remain confidential but if it's dead in the water can anyone shed any light on who they were please?
Finally agree with most that Willock isn't the answer but also would rather see him leading the line than Winegum, Fola and others in the same mould.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Neil Shipperley
TBH, I don't know if they're dead in the water. They may still be twitching for all I know so best to leave it at that for the time being.
sonofabee
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Bizarre how you can think you can judge whether Fola was better or worse than Willock on the basis of one full appearance. Admittedly it was a comedy appearance and the signs weren't good but he hasn't been crap week in week out since the day he was signed as Willock has.
Anyway, we haven't got a useless lump in today and nor have we got in anybody who might be able to lead the line on Saturday. At least we can save our money and have a partial refund of our Fighting Chance donations on Monday as we will be 10 points behind 20th place by then having played at least one game more than those we need to catch.
It will be a forlorn cause by then and we can look back nostalgically at League 1 and wonder exactly what it was that Scott F said at the interview about the players he was going to bring in that enabled him to land the job.
steveleedsbee
INVALID EMAIL
Neil Shipperley
probably touching 60 by now........................
Not BRISTOL Rovers I hope, Dicken has missed that one if it isrofl rofl rofl lol lol lol
steveleedsbee
INVALID EMAIL
Holysmit
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
FFS can people not live in the real world?
Its either we're spending too much money on players who are not good enough or why aren't we signing players.
Fitz hasn't done much if anything wrong. He's got rid of Fitz Jnr, Wynhard, Olibuje, he's trying to get rid of Skularson, Rhodes, Pinaut and one of the other ***** (who it was I completely forgot).
He has brought in so far players with a bit more experience in a Welsh International, two estbalished loanees in the form of Wilson and Leary. Keith was better then what we had, and while I don't agree with Nathan Abbey, I get the feeling his hands were tied.
He has improved the squad so far but has not been able to find a striker who could improve our squad. Sadly this isn't easy as where are we going to find a striker who could do a job for us? I know Neil Shipperly is mentioned here but that's cloud cockoo land and has anyone seen him recently? I saw him at Norwich last season, he was sh*te, overweight and unfit. You could see his gut from Ipswich that day.
How dare Fitz, be sensible enough to not just sign any jobsworth striker who isn't up to the job? Maybe people are right though, he's being a bit sensible with the wage budget . My God!, that's a sackable offence in my books. He'll never make it as a manager in this league.
Fitz has inherited a sh*te squad and its not his fault. Martin Allen, Ron Noades, the board and Leroy all are to some way blame for the mess we find ourselves in not him.
WisBee
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Neil Shipperley
.................I can quite understand your concern about the time it is taking, JT.....after all, most of us here on the GPG were equally concerned about the time it was taking to announce our 'new' manager.............however, I do think you're barking up the wrong tree by blaming the parents - surely they weren't all from the same bloodline - of those we have got in on loan, or was it God you meant.........?
Neil Shipperley
Really?
It must be the motivation then that has got us five points out of thirty under his tenure.
I'm glad you all think he's the messiah, and his failure to bring in a striker is just a minor irrelevant aberration despite the fact we are plummeting out of the division and there has been no noticeable improvement in our fortunes. "Being sensible with the wage budget" is not what he is doing. he has been provided with a small budget to get players in, including a striker. All he is demonstrating is his lack of contacts in the football world, something that should have been identified at the recruitment stage.
To be honest, I don't think we would have had any less points now if we had kept Rosenior.
I didn't understand why he was given the job in the first place and having seen him in action, I understand even less now.
WarrenBee
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Really?
It must be the motivation then that has got us five points out of thirty under his tenure.
I'm glad you all think he's the messiah, and his failure to bring in a striker is just a minor irrelevant aberration despite the fact we are plummeting out of the division and there has been no noticeable improvement in our fortunes. "Being sensible with the wage budget" is not what he is doing. he has been provided with a small budget to get players in, including a striker. All he is demonstrating is his lack of contacts in the football world, something that should have been identified at the recruitment stage.
To be honest, I don't think we would have had any less points now if we had kept Rosenior.
I didn't understand why he was given the job in the first place and having seen him in action, I understand even less now.
Playground bully
Holysmit
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Really?
It must be the motivation then that has got us five points out of thirty under his tenure.
I'm glad you all think he's the messiah, and his failure to bring in a striker is just a minor irrelevant aberration despite the fact we are plummeting out of the division and there has been no noticeable improvement in our fortunes. "Being sensible with the wage budget" is not what he is doing. he has been provided with a small budget to get players in, including a striker. All he is demonstrating is his lack of contacts in the football world, something that should have been identified at the recruitment stage.
To be honest, I don't think we would have had any less points now if we had kept Rosenior.
I didn't understand why he was given the job in the first place and having seen him in action, I understand even less now.
I said he improved the squad by replacing some of the players he had with better and more experienced players. I said he had been dealt a sh*te squad which he had. He couldn't sign any players until January 1st that was only 18 days ago.
Maybe if you could look at the other side of the argument other then your "Oh I didn't feel good about Fitz's appointment. Oh look I was right. Yes I was right", you could see that.
Do you honestly think many managers could have done better then this and, if they could, do you think they'd want to risk their cv by trying?
Because I think the answer to both question is no. This team was ****ed when Fitz took over and if you think he/or anybody can turn a team with no direction full of kids and injuries, who are by far poorer than most if not all teams in this division in two months then you really are deluded imo.
This club is a shambles and there was never a quick fix solution. What striker in their right mind would want to come to Brentford (unless they're not good enough realistically) right now?
Neil Shipperley
Yes and yes.
Apparantly we had a large number of applicants and an initial short list of 14.
We went for the cheapest option (again)
Why did he get the job then if he didn't have a workable plan to turn things around?
California Bee
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Surely you can understand that it was only possible to make material changes to the squad which has only become possible in the last couple of weeks!
Neil Shipperley
One major problem was the time taken to appoint him. If this had been done immediately LR was sacked, he would have had a chance to have got some loan signings in before the deadline in early December (?). As it was we wasted 7 games due to the lengthy corporate process - and did not apply any of the principles set out in that process.
Personally, I cannot see any way the signings made so far will get us out of this mire and frankly, therefore, why bother? They may be solid pros but our situation demands something extra and we have not and aren't going to get that.
We will probably see a minor improvement later in the season - enough to see SF keep his job for next season - and then we'll disappear into the middle of Div 2.
That isn't pessimism - that's realism. Personally right now, I think I'd prefer to continue to blood our younger players & save whatever money we've got for next season. Charles, for instance, did a reasonable job at Swansea and he's not adding additional money to the wage bill. He'll be 19yo at the beginning of next season & hopefully will make the grade.
Personally, I cannot see any way the signings made so far will get us out of this mire and frankly, therefore, why bother? They may be solid pros but our situation demands something extra and we have not and aren't going to get that.
We will probably see a minor improvement later in the season - enough to see SF keep his job for next season - and then we'll disappear into the middle of Div 2.
That isn't pessimism - that's realism. Personally right now, I think I'd prefer to continue to blood our younger players & save whatever money we've got for next season. Charles, for instance, did a reasonable job at Swansea and he's not adding additional money to the wage bill. He'll be 19yo at the beginning of next season & hopefully will make the grade.
blunstone
Active member
sonofabee
Well-known member
Neil Shipperley
Reality check required for some I'm afraid.
We're not a big club or an attractive proposition to anyone considering a move except for unproven youngsters or unwanted journey men.
Why .......becuae we're bottom of the league, with less money to offer than other clubs and only on short term deal. The manager is new at this level and has inherited a crap squad that he has only been able to change in the last two weeks.
I'm desparate for him to manage to convince a half decent striker to take a chance and put himself in the shop window by turning in good displays but I only want better than we currently have not just a name to keep people happy initially who doesn't deliver.
I do think there has been amarked improvement since the transfer window opened in both ideas and attitude although sadly not significant enough at present to make me think that we'll stay up.
Fitz can only bring in players that will play for the money on offer, that is the problem, not his lack of contacts. Let's face it I haven't seen other league 1 clubs signing up goalscoreres I's love to have had on the books. Rodgers was a maybe although he's another midget so not really ideal but but he cost PV £30K on a 3 year deal.
I still hope that Fitz finds someone to support Jo better up front than Willock but won't be berating the bloke if he doesn't.
We're not a big club or an attractive proposition to anyone considering a move except for unproven youngsters or unwanted journey men.
Why .......becuae we're bottom of the league, with less money to offer than other clubs and only on short term deal. The manager is new at this level and has inherited a crap squad that he has only been able to change in the last two weeks.
I'm desparate for him to manage to convince a half decent striker to take a chance and put himself in the shop window by turning in good displays but I only want better than we currently have not just a name to keep people happy initially who doesn't deliver.
I do think there has been amarked improvement since the transfer window opened in both ideas and attitude although sadly not significant enough at present to make me think that we'll stay up.
Fitz can only bring in players that will play for the money on offer, that is the problem, not his lack of contacts. Let's face it I haven't seen other league 1 clubs signing up goalscoreres I's love to have had on the books. Rodgers was a maybe although he's another midget so not really ideal but but he cost PV £30K on a 3 year deal.
I still hope that Fitz finds someone to support Jo better up front than Willock but won't be berating the bloke if he doesn't.
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Bee H
Brouilly Guzzler
Neil Shipperley
That is totally incorrect, a 'management team' budget was set (to include Manager, Asst Manager, Physio, Goalkeeping coach etc.,) and this figure was communicated to all interviewed !
Neil Shipperley
Some of us are (or rather were when we sacked Leroy) more concerned about avoiding relegation from League 1. That small hope seems to be fading fast though and has not been helped by the failure to bring a striker in during the first 17 days of the transfer window despite a budget of around £80k being made available to do it (including FC money).
The survival plan, and specific plans for new players that the new manager was required to have as part of the job criteria all seems like a distant joke now.
I'm sure theres a reasonable chance we will muddle through next season without going into the Conference. We might we might not, but with the sort of budget that BU can provide either Scott F (or hopefully someone else who knows what to spend it on) I wouldn't bet on us being a top half team.
Cant wait. Whoopee dee
Neil Shipperley
Just because you get a large number of applicants doesn't mean they all want the job when they see what is on offer. The better applicants clearly ruled themselves out some of them publicly, becaus ethe short list in the end was down to a youth team manager at Oxford or a youth team manager at Brentford. Ok that is in someway down to the package on offer, but in all honesty it was probably more down to the squad they would inherit and the funds available in January to improve things. They did not want to put themselves in a position to ruin their own cv's. The error was appointing Leroy, when there may have been better options last summer. Fitz is now picking up the pieces and you could now say that with 4 or 5 additional players this is NOW his team and since being able to make signings he has gained 4 points out of 12 and unbeaten at home. Its still not good enough, but there is a definite improvement. We do need a centre forward without doubt and a proven goalscorer will always be the hardest to find at teh price we have to pay. So in the meantime we must improve defensively and not ship silly goals like we did against Orient and then 1-0 wins at home or 0-0 draws away might help our cause as much as any proven or or unproven striker.
Alan D
Active member
Neil Shipperley
Fitz has inherited a sh*te squad and its not his fault. Martin Allen, Ron Noades, the board and Leroy all are to some way blame for the mess we find ourselves in not him.[/QUOTE]
I must be dreaming! I thought Martin Allen saved us from certain relegation and then went on to take us to back to back play off positions. At the same time reaching the 5th. round of the F.A. Cup for two consecutive seasons. On top of that showed a profit in transfer dealings. If thats failing, then I would have been a very happy person, if that clown Leroy had produced the same shortcomings.
I must be dreaming! I thought Martin Allen saved us from certain relegation and then went on to take us to back to back play off positions. At the same time reaching the 5th. round of the F.A. Cup for two consecutive seasons. On top of that showed a profit in transfer dealings. If thats failing, then I would have been a very happy person, if that clown Leroy had produced the same shortcomings.
Neil Shipperley
You must be really impressed with the way things have improved since the change was made.
Personally, I think the appointment of Fitzgerald was a huge mistake and totally indefensible by the Board.
I hope when we are relegated having made two wrong managerial appointments in the same season that some heads will roll at Board level.
Will we ever learn the true story of who wanted Patterson from the panel and why he didn't get the job. was it really about an extra 3 months severance. talk about us cutting off our noses to spite our face.
I personally having supported this club for 36 years feel totally let down by those running it.
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