OK RON....READ THIS

[Chrisbee]

http://brentford.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=915&p=2&stid=8092854

Seems to me a not too popular a move eh?

What now????

Do we die either way?

[This message has been edited by Chrisbee (edited 27 March 2001).]

 

[Sweepy]

It's a stupid move. It seems to me that Ron is always trying to make some sort of point. The real point is that Ron has spent a fortune getting Brentford a whole dozen places higher up the league table compared to when W£bb dragged us through the gutter. On the other hand, it has cost Ray nothing to get us to a cup final.

The fact is that if we give up our ground, we will be giving up the only security we have as a club. How could we justify being in debt if we no longer have a ground to offset the debt against? As for Woking, it is nice for Ron's comical side to show through at a time when Mr Happy himself seems unhappier than ever with life in West London.

Don't tell me there are not other pathetic little non-league grounds closer to home we could use. At least Hayes is only a H98 bus ride away. The solution (whether we like it or not) to collectively incorporate the debts of both Brentford and QPR, then work on a stadium project together. Then don't move anywhere until the stadium is built. The alternative is to stay at Griffin Park.

 

[Idaho Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sweepy:
The solution (whether we like it or not) to collectively incorporate the debts of both Brentford and QPR, then work on a stadium project together. /B]</font>

Are you crazy?? We don't want anything to do with their 20 Million pound debt!!!!

 

[Heston Bee]

The move to Woking is a possibility not a certainty, as has been said before, and we knew before the poll that it wouldn't be a popular move.

Regardless, I think the point of the matter is that the move to Woking gives Brentford an option IF there is no continuity between leaving Griffin Park and playing at a new ground. What seems to be consistently overlooked is that we may not HAVE to move to Woking at all.

As for other non-league grounds more locally situated...there are others, but none of them compare to GP, in fact, few of them compare to Woking's ground, which is one of the best in non-league.
I'm sure if suggestions were made as a preference to other grounds they'd be taken on board by the club? But would you REALLY want to go and see Brentford at Hayes?

I don't doubt that a possible move to Woking would be unpopular, as backed up by the poll on Beesotted, the poll was responded to by 400 people. I personally wouldn't be in favour of a move there, BUT(!) 400 is less than 10% of our average gates. Would it be prudent to base decisions exclusively on such a minority?

 

[Bee H]

as soon as we move out of GP and not directly in to a new ground is the day the club dies ... just my opinion

 

[Baz Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Heston Bee:


I don't doubt that a possible move to Woking would be unpopular, as backed up by the poll on Beesotted, the poll was responded to by 400 people. I personally wouldn't be in favour of a move there, BUT(!) 400 is less than 10% of our average gates. Would it be prudent to base decisions exclusively on such a minority?

</font>

Although it is not a large sample it is larger than what most OP's are based upon. The only differnece is that we cannot tell whether it is a represenataive sample.

However, assuming that those intertested enough in the Bees to read the message boards and web sides are regular type diehards, then we must be concerned. If thsee supporters are only 22% committed with perhaps another 43% floating then things are grim.

I'm still awaiting a constructive reason from Ron, or his professional consultants (I assume that he's got some???) as to why there is any need to move from GP prior to a new ground being ready, or at the very least contractually committed. The silence is deafening. Why? Because there is no sound or sensible reason to move financially or otherwise.

 

[Ace Face]

Why can`t people wake up and smell the coffee.

RN has now said the new move will take three years longer to reach fruition, if at all. What f he says this when we are at Woking and says "due to circumstances outside of my control etc…"

RN REFUSES to give any assurances for how long we will be at Woking. If a new ground is being built this should be for a maximum of one year until new stadium is built.

RN REFUSES to give the real owners of BFC any details of a business case for the various options available. I.e.: stay at GP while new ground is built or groundshare while new ground is proposedly built. ( Ronald - Please let us have some figures, also if fans stop going for a season it can become a habit)

When we move to Woking our crowds will at least half, this will give RN the opportunity to say "why do we desperately need a new stadium, when are currently housed in a stadium with a 6000 capacity on 2000 average crowds"

One of the reasons why I get so angry is because I seem to be the only person who seems to understand that their is no such thing as fair play in the world of business.

Please also understand that RN must have an idea of the amount of protests this move will cause and as a result I believe will only announce at the last possible moment ie: Very near the end of the previous season to the move.

BRICKLAYERS BEE IS INNOCENT !!

 

[Chrisbee]

If Mr.Noades is to retire in 2 years,why is he so keen to sell GP?????

 

[Mr Tree]

for the good of the club

 

[Ace Face]

Dan the Bee tell me you are joking.

 

[Bucks Bee]

Bricklayers, stop!!!!! You make sweeping bold statements that have no proof with them whatsoever. We've been throught the scaremongering stage already about three months ago and its finally died down. Please only make statements if you know they are true and have proof. Your opinion is valued and we want to hear it, but lets be alittle less agressive about it! I'm not having a go. Things will sort themselves out and things are being done, we must just trust the relvant parties who are acting on our behalf. Cheers!

 

[Mr Tree]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BricklayersBee:
Dan the Bee tell me you are joking.</font>

the way RN tells it, we have to move to survive, and all funds from GP sale are going towards the new ground.... why are you so quick to doubt him?

 

[shaggy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bucks Bee:
Bricklayers, stop!!!!! You make sweeping bold statements that have no proof with them whatsoever. ...!</font>

...yes, but the problem is that if we don't act on the worse case scenario we run the risk of it happenning without the opportunity to stop it.

 

[shaggy]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dan the Bee:

the way RN tells it, we have to move to survive, and all funds from GP sale are going towards the new ground.... why are you so quick to doubt him?</font>

...'cos he has done nothing to warrant trust.

 

[Mr Tree]

shouldn't have left it at just the above!!

i have a degree of mistrust of him too, but please, he's trying to be more reasonable with us, can we not try and be more reasonable with him? we keep posing the questions and he answered the above, so i accept that.....

 

[Ace Face]

Sorry to see some of you feel I am way off the mark.

I would like to know if the people who trust RN, would be prepared to move to Woking for more than one season whilst a new stadium is planned at feltham. Even if he says and LBH say all the finance is in place ( look at what is happening to Oxford - say they had moved to Thame Utd originally for a one season deal, they would have been their three years and the new ground still isn`t ready.

I would love to think RN is our hero, but good intentions mean nothing. Also he has threatened to walk away at any time if he does not get his own way.
We must keep GP as our fallback until a new ground is built. We do not have to sell GP first eg: Walsall, Northampton, Scunthorpe, Reading etc

" In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king"

ie: RN always has the upper hand because only he knows what his real attention is.

WOKING? ….. NO THANKS..!!

 

[pandora]

Cynical Chrisbee strikes again!!!

 

[Chrisbee]

Cynical?...moi!!
I just put a link to the topic!

Cynical?...moi?
I thought retirement meant giving up "work"?

NO TO WOKING!!!!

 

[Bucks Bee]

Firstly, I agree that moving to Woking is a bad idea. But what me must remember is that we need capital, dollar, dosh whatever you want to call it, to purchase the land when it becomes available. At present we don't have the cash. So what do we do? Does RN buy the land and then we'll pay him back from the proceeds of GP when the stadium is ready for us to move into? Or do we move to Woking for a year, sell GP and in that year not only buy the ground but do some work o it as well? I don't know either! What I don't understand is this: Once we have bought the land available with the proceeds of GP, who's going to pay for the building works at the ground? Coz the proceeds of GP surely won't cover the cost of a new "incremental" stadium. I thought LBH were skint and who else is going to want to share with us???

It is all up in the air and i appreciate those of you who are sceptical, pessemistic or whatever. I don't know the answers any more than you do, but I do think the time for scaremongering must come to a stop. But that is just my personal opinion and I enoy a verbal ruck just as much as the next bloke! End of chat and thanks for listening. Ciao!

 

[Bucks Bee]

300 - I've just done 300, i've just done 300!!

300 I've just done 300, I've just done 300.........

 

[John Mac]

There are lots of scenarios so it's pointless making assumptions over what is best for Brentford. A move to Woking is looked on as the first step to football oblivion and that may well be the case, on the other hand it may be the best short term home, we would need to calculate the financial mathematics.

If we stay at Griffin Park while a new stadium is built there are several considerations, all of which are speculative. First of those is raising the money to build a new stadium, we'd have to borrow it. What if we did that and then couldn't sell GP? And before you all shout, "It's a prime piece of land," bear in mind that a change of use needs to be granted before it can be developed, and there's no guarantee the club would get it in the short term.

OK, let's say we have the new stadium, we have the change of use and still no-one puts in the right offer. But, why wouldn't they? Well, BFC would want the maximum price, and developers will know they're desperate because they are paying interest on a massive loan for the new ground. It becomes a buyers' market. We may well find we're forced to take much less than we'd like, having borrowed on what we expected to get. Quite frankly a financial disaster and the club's board would be rightly crucified for it.

I think the club needs to explore all the options both good and bad. If they then tell us what their contingency plans are (a la Woking) it is fine for us to disagree, but we do need to try and look at the bigger picture.

As far as raising the money for the new stadium is concerned, it is possible that the club will qualify for grants and that some commercial development of the new site will be necessary in order to raise funds for building the ground. I understand these are options the club are looking at.

All in all it's very complicated and these are just examples of the problems the club face. If we had millions in the bank then it would be easier, but most companies have an overdraft facility in order to carry on their business and avoid leaving money sitting around doing nothing. It's just unfortunate that we seem to be making more use of our facility than most of us would like.

Quite clearly, Woking is a last resort for all of us and what we need to do is convince the club that financially it's a non-runner, but remember, as has been said before it is only an option. We'd like to see it stay that way!

 

[Baz Bee]

John makes some good points but there are answers to all of them:

Borowing money to fund the land purchase and construction works. This is usually what all developers have to do when undertaking such a venture. If you have a sound business plan with deatailed financial projections that satisfy the appropriate funding institutions it is not a problem. Do you believe that everyone who undertakes a multi million pound development has something to sell in order to fund it?

Not being able to sell GP. If that really is considered an obstacle then there is no reason why GP could not be marketed and sold prior to the new stadium commencing. However, the sale would be conditional that BFC would not have to vacate until the new facilities are ready. Housebuilders would generally not be deterred by such a provision as the land would just be added to their land bank. If agreeable and suitable to both parties an index linking provision could be included to adjust the final sale price.

Planning Consent. Again not an issue. You can obtain outline Planning Consent prior to marketing the land. It is not difficult and should not be a problem to obtain permission for a residential development. Indeed, I have recently been involved in a very similar situation in LB Ealing where outline consent was obtained and the land is now being marketed.

All in all what i am saying is that in my opinion there is no real need for GP to be vacated (although it could be sold) prior to a new ground being completed. If there is a sound business plan in place then funding and backing will be easily obtained. I'm sure that Ron will have explored all the revenue and capital implications, including grants. Therefore if the figures are satisfactory there should be no need to have to vacate GP. If we do, then I am more concerned that this indicates a possible flawed scenario that is being worked to!