Our most successful managers...

[Hamburger Hill]

I somehow ended up on an old post about Phil Holder and it got me thinking about the various managers that have come and gone over the years...

Who could lay claim to being our most successful managers...would it simply be a question of looking at win/draw/loss percentages or would we need to factor in promotions/relegations/cup runs and the financial circumstances at the time?

For me Phil Holder would have to be number one during my time as he's the only one to have got us into Division 1 (Championship) in my lifetime...

 

[nocoat]

Gary Thompson, I went to 100% of his games and never saw us lose

 

[beebopalula]

holder has it post war for the reason you stated
but l suspect his overall record is blemished by the relegation season. lf we go up with uwe his record will be the best.

 

[Balders Bee]

holder has it post war for the reason you stated
but l suspect his overall record is blemished by the relegation season. lf we go up with uwe his record will be the best.

If you accept the argument that Holder is the most successful post war manager by virtue of getting us to the second tier surely Uwe would have to keep us in the Championship for at least one season to be considered as the best. If you want to judge it on the relative merits of the quality of the football played then if Uwe gets us promoted you could make a convincing case for him to be given that accolade.

 

[wibs]

It's not even up for debate, its Holder, it doesn't mean he was the best, but he's the most successful. Pointless thread.

 

[Hullbee]

Ron noades

 

[Hullbee]

Ron noades

Tell me manager who made a bigger profit in player sales

 

[wanderer paul]

Harry Curtis.
Phil Holder.
Malcolm MacDonald.
Martin Allen.
Bill Dodgin.
Steve Coppell.
Andy Scott.
Frank Blunstone.

If Uwe does get us up, I'll put him just behind Holder in the list above, if we stay there, then he'll be no.2.

 

[Brook Court Bee]

How does Steve Coppell always get overlooked in these discussions? 13 minutes and a play-off final away from promotion. Gained one more point than the 91-92 team (83 compared to 82), better goal difference (+34 compared to +26). Better home record (17W 5D 1D vs. 17W 2D 4D). We didn't quite get over the line but that was arguably the strongest the third tier has even been (full of big teams with big money just before the ITV money bubble burst). Not to mention Coppell's team played outstanding, fluent, passing, attacking football (scored only 4 goals less than 91/92 team and 16 more than the current team - accept we still have two to go). A bit devil's advocate for sure as I know a lot more about the Coppell side than Perryman's (I was there, aged 7 but remember little - have watched the old VHS of the season a dozen times though), but he was easily the best manager I have seen down here until Uwe, who I think brings a lot more to the club overall and will leave a more lasting legacy.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-two/2001-2002/table/played
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-three-old/1991-1992/table

 

[Hamburger Hill]

It's not even up for debate, its Holder, it doesn't mean he was the best, but he's the most successful. Pointless thread.

Did you get out the wrong side of the bed this morning? If you think this is a pointless thread then I'm glad you're not a moderator cos there'd be very little left to read on here

....Having just read your plumbing post in chit-chat I'm reminded of the pot calling the kettle black

 

[jlove]

... but most successful is factual, so it is not up for debate. If the thread was Our Most Liked Manager, then it's a debate.

 

[Hamburger Hill]

... but most successful is factual, so it is not up for debate. If the thread was Our Most Liked Manager, then it's a debate.

It's not a fact at all....it's subjective depending on the criteria that you use as I highlighted in my initial post and as someone else mentioned transfer revenue for example.

The original thread title was about managers (note the plural)
Why not post some opinions of your own rather than poor attempts at pedantry?

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Successful for flair I would go for Callaghan, for knowing that your team was going to be in the mix with them at the helm would be Webb and MA and for getting us there it has to be Holder.
For me it's all about confindence and I knew Fred's games would more than often entertain and that DW and MA would have decent seasons, I reckon Webb would have got us up had he not turned out to be a greedy feck and that we'd have had fun getting there. I didn't exactly warm to Holder but his team was good and although I doubted him, he was indeed the man.

 

[jlove]

It's not a fact at all....it's subjective depending on the criteria that you use as I highlighted in my initial post and as someone else mentioned transfer revenue for example.

The original thread title was about managers (note the plural)
Why not post some opinions of your own rather than poor attempts at pedantry?

So, it's a debate about the criteria for success in football management, then?

I've thought long and hard and come up with an opinion of my own: the increase in moving average league position over 13 games from the last period of the previous manager to the last period of that manager. Please discuss.

 

[macsalisbee]

has to be Holder-fingers crossed that Uwe joins him!

Honourable mention for Frank Blunstone getting promotion out of the blue and only using 14 players IIRC.

A team that played attack at home and defended well, tough and uncompromising all through the team.

Should have had the backing to take us further but Houston and O'Mara let go with others in the usual BFC manner

 

[Hamburger Hill]

So, it's a debate about the criteria for success in football management, then?

I've thought long and hard and come up with an opinion of my own: the increase in moving average league position over 13 games from the last period of the previous manager to the last period of that manager. Please discuss.

Why not start your own thread rather than be pain in the backside on someone else's?:yawn:

 

[TuckerBee]

Phil Holder .. I'm not sure how anyone can see it any other way promotion is all that maters to me not how much money someone sold players for or how much profit they made the club or that they acheived a better points tally then phil Holders side. .PROMOTION. :beer:

 

[jlove]

Why not start your own thread rather than be pain in the backside on someone else's?:yawn:

Can we have a referee?

 

[wibs]

Phil Holder .. I'm not sure how anyone can see it any other way promotion is all that maters to me not how much money someone sold players for or how much profit they made the club or that they acheived a better points tally then phil Holders side. .PROMOTION. :beer:

Careful, Hamburger Hill is going to be furious with you.

 

[wibs]

Did you get out the wrong side of the bed this morning? If you think this is a pointless thread then I'm glad you're not a moderator cos there'd be very little left to read on here

....Having just read your plumbing post in chit-chat I'm reminded of the pot calling the kettle black

by the way of all the posts and threads Ive started I find it weird that you refer to the one where I couldnt get any hot water in my plumbing as pointless!! bizarre

I assure you there are many many more threads I've started that are more pointless, in fact the hot water one was one of the few that actually had a point to it.

Anyway we are all Bees together so lets stay lovers till the end of the season and if you think Holder is not the most successful manager we've had then its entirely up to you.

 

[favershambee]

He must be one after his views on the Sheffield Utd v Brentford game.

Can we have a referee?

 

[Alan D]

I guess Holder, but he didn't really assemble the team. That was basically Perryman, who I'am sure would have completed the job if he had remained. This current team is more or less Rosler's team and I think that will edge it if he completes the job in hand.

Slightly off thread is the fact I can't really see a manager in the Championship, League 1 and League 2, who I would prefer currently. Yes he has frustrated me sometimes with some "negative" tactics, but overall he got far more right than wrong.

 

[Hamburger Hill]

He must be one after his views on the Sheffield Utd v Brentford game.

Have never been a referee or wanted to be one I can assure you!

 

[Hamburger Hill]

by the way of all the posts and threads Ive started I find it weird that you refer to the one where I couldnt get any hot water in my plumbing as pointless!! bizarre

I assure you there are many many more threads I've started that are more pointless, in fact the hot water one was one of the few that actually had a point to it.

Anyway we are all Bees together so lets stay lovers till the end of the season and if you think Holder is not the most successful manager we've had then its entirely up to you.

Doh....please read my original post again....

 

[b42long....]

If you accept the argument that Holder is the most successful post war manager by virtue of getting us to the second tier surely Uwe would have to keep us in the Championship for at least one season to be considered as the best. If you want to judge it on the relative merits of the quality of the football played then if Uwe gets us promoted you could make a convincing case for him to be given that accolade.

Spot on, weren't we up to 10th the season we went up before the wheels fell off?

 

[spirebee]

How does Steve Coppell always get overlooked in these discussions? 13 minutes and a play-off final away from promotion. Gained one more point than the 91-92 team (83 compared to 82), better goal difference (+34 compared to +26). Better home record (17W 5D 1D vs. 17W 2D 4D). We didn't quite get over the line but that was arguably the strongest the third tier has even been (full of big teams with big money just before the ITV money bubble burst). Not to mention Coppell's team played outstanding, fluent, passing, attacking football (scored only 4 goals less than 91/92 team and 16 more than the current team - accept we still have two to go). A bit devil's advocate for sure as I know a lot more about the Coppell side than Perryman's (I was there, aged 7 but remember little - have watched the old VHS of the season a dozen times though), but he was easily the best manager I have seen down here until Uwe, who I think brings a lot more to the club overall and will leave a more lasting legacy.

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-two/2001-2002/table/played
http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-three-old/1991-1992/table

Was it Dave Webbs team that came second behind the Brummies, when only the top team went up? I can't remember; too much alcohol!
..not saying I like the thieving basta*d, especially given that I went for him once, but he did put out a good team.

 

[Bungy Bee]

Terry Butcher.....lol...YOU REDS...

 

[bees66]

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-three-old/1991-1992/table

9 of those teams have or are still are in the Premiership

 

[horshambees]

Got to go some to beat Harry Curtis.

 

[nocoat]

9 of those teams have or are still are in the Premiership

I make it ten? Count again?

 

[B2B]

I make it ten? Count again?

Bradford city being # 10 presumably?

 

[B2B]

81 goals for? Wish we could match that again....!

 

[nocoat]

Bradford city being # 10 presumably?

Birmingham City
Stoke City
West Bromwich Albion
Fulham
Reading
Bolton Wanderers
Hull City
Wigan Athletic
Bradford City
Swansea City

 

[Sean]

Bill Dodgin is the best name every to manage Brentford by a country mile.

 

[Wise old Bee]

Has to be Harry Curtis but in modern times Holder is miles ahead. Three seasons, play-offs then champions, then an unlucky relegation. Like NB I am a big fan of the Callaghan era and although we fell short of success they were good times.

 

[beeproud]

Wow I feel so young reading this thread , I only remember vividly back to Allen's stint (Although I do remember the play off loss of Coppell's years). Anyhow, for me the most successful would be Allen. Turned us from likely relegated to promotion challengers and only missed out by the skin of his teeth.

However, after Saturday it will be Rosler for getting us over the line and playing some pretty decent football.

In terms of best of all time, would put my vote to Holder but this opinion is heavily influenced by family and not exactly personal judgement. Does anyone know why he never managed after us?

 

[Balders Bee]

Curtis was our Shankly end of story, unfortunately the war ensured that our time in the limelight would be fleeting. Even a cursory understanding of our history and his achievements makes the case watertight. Modern era managers Coppell and Perryman for forming teams of style and panache, Holder for a brutally efficient unit which got us to the promised land before taking us back again. Maybe Uwe is the man to create a lasting legacy to be a modern day Curtis....he has a great opportunity with the backing of a benefactor such as Mr Benham.

Perhaps it is time for little old Brentford to raise itself from it's slumbers and remind the world of what we once were and maybe again.

 

[ruislip bee]

Jimmy Sirrel (?). He kept us going after the 67 qpr crisis for a number of years on a squad of just 14 including 2 GKs. In those days only 1 sub was allowed and sometimes it was our spare GK - either Chic Brodie or Gorden Philips depending on who was playing in goal.

 

[NigeriaRay]

I guess Holder, but he didn't really assemble the team. That was basically Perryman, who I'am sure would have completed the job if he had remained. This current team is more or less Rosler's team and I think that will edge it if he completes the job in hand.

Slightly off thread is the fact I can't really see a manager in the Championship, League 1 and League 2, who I would prefer currently. Yes he has frustrated me sometimes with some "negative" tactics, but overall he got far more right than wrong.

Not sure I agree that Perryman would have taken us up if he stayed. Apart from a good cup run in 88/89, I don't recall us challenging in the league during his time. Holder got something extra out of the players and gets my vote although I agree with other posters that Callaghan's team was exciting to watch.

 

[TunWellsBee]

Bill Dodgin Junior - the Silver Fox! Bees were heading down Div 4 when he took over. Took him a little bit of time to turn things round, but he stuck to his footballing principles and produced a team of characters, skill and flare which got us promotion. Felt he was unlucky to be sacked, but when that happened we were a division higher and much stronger than when he joined (and that team survived the drop after he left..)

 

[nick logan]

Bill Dodgin is the best name every to manage Brentford by a country mile.

Apart from he isn't.

 

[taxi driver]

Gaffer Here has turned out to be pretty damn good

 

[SmiffyBee]

Gaffer Here has turned out to be pretty damn good

I am going to agree, only because by doing so, it means a manager who's football team has defeated Gaffer Here must be Very pretty damn good.

 

[Balders Bee]

I am going to agree, only because by doing so, it means a manager who's football team has defeated Gaffer Here must be Very pretty damn good.

Only counts in normal time and you did have double agent Wibs on your side

 

[SmiffyBee]

Only counts in normal time and you did have double agent Wibs on your side

I think the game last Sunday proved he can miss penalties in a variety of situations

 

[Balders Bee]

I think the game last Sunday proved he can miss penalties in a variety of situations

Ok I'll give you that one

 

[BeeHomeSoon]

I think the game last Sunday proved he can miss penalties in a variety of situations

That was all in the name of charity...
We were not mean't to win, shame nobody told Taxi

 

[BRbee]

Malcolm MacDonald and Jimmy Sirrell - both had minimal funds but had success way beyond that which their budgets would suggest.

 

[brooks]

Picture including Malcolm Macdonald on left. Unfortunately the story is about them.

https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...ying-professional-ground-school-team-beat-qpr