Perspective

SH

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Perspective

Living on the other side of the world and only having seen four games this season, it's probably easier or at least a bit less painful to absorb results like Barrow. However, I have been a bit surprised at the over-reaction.

Having watched Brentford regularly since the mid-70s, it's painfully true that we don't have a history as a "Cup team", as evidenced by our dismal League Cup record and the misty eyed memories of the Hull (1971) and Man City/Blackburn/Liverpool (1989) runs. The only exception to this was under MA, but that involves a phrase including red rags and bulls.

What seems particularly surprising is the very fact that people are surprised that we should lose away to a team only one division below us. More so, as there seems to be a belief out there that we're somehow operating far beneath our normal station. So what's our "normal" status?

I thought I'd put some historic perspective on all this. If my maths is right, we're currently 75th in the League pyramid. Since falling out of the old Second Division more than 50 years ago, we've finished the season between 44th and 87th (according to footy-mad). However, ignoring the one brief shining moment at Christmas 1992, the extraordinary thing is how we've basically operated in an incredibly narrow band between 50th and 60th place for over 30 years.

The good news for those wanting to see the glass half-full, like me, is that all the statistical evidence suggests it won't be that long before we're back to mid-table third tier mediocrity. But of course, that would be a bonus and, as they say, past history is no guide to....:confused:
 

Perspective

I am not following.

A Too much complaint that we are below our normal place in the grand scheme of things

B We are actually below our place in the normal scheme of things

I demand our god given return to our rightful place in the 3rd tier of english football :thetruth: anything else is a daily slap in the face that breaches my human rights or something.
 

Perspective

Relax CBU, just think of Bristol Palin's knockers and all will seem right in the world again.................:crazy3:
 

Perspective

I am not following.

A Too much complaint that we are below our normal place in the grand scheme of things

B We are actually below our place in the normal scheme of things

I demand our god given return to our rightful place in the 3rd tier of english football :thetruth: anything else is a daily slap in the face that breaches my human rights or something.

Sorry. I should have the tech skills to show the chart, which proves the answer is definitely B, and thus you will eventually be able to witness (1) many more years in the middle of Tier 3 and (2) very few Cup runs.
 

Perspective

:thetruth: so you agree that the gods have apparently forsaken us? and that we are owed promotion by natural law? So when we are beaten by a team one division below us they are actually in the right reality which is unfortunately incompatable with the current real reality 2 divisions below us? Which is why a lot of people are a bit put out? For good reason?

Just so long as we're clear :monkey:
 

Perspective

We have a lot of young ones on here who can't take failure yet..........and some of the usual suspects who love to moan.
 

Perspective

It is the curse of the supporter to over react after a defeat and in that I am no different.

Interesting stats you produce and I have no doubt that in the fullness of time we will return to the old div 3, my concern is that financially we need to make that return this season as any more time spent in the basement division will lead to a further reduction in attendance and in the bottom division you are just one bad season away from falling out of the league completely.

When Scott first took over we played some decent football and at times I have seen us do it this season however increasingly we seem one dimensional with Hamer kicking the ball upfield in the hope that Elder will win the ball in the air. Watch other teams, including Barrow, where the keeper was prepared to throw the ball out to start an attack using the midfielders or defenders this surely increases the liklihood of holding onto the ball and controlling the game.

It is this seeming lack of thought which I beleive will be the reason that we will fail this season to acheive promotion and I for one will be singularly unimpressed if that is the case as I beleive anything less will be failure.

The team have shown they can play football and if we were to follow the philosophy of playing the ball to feet using the height of Elder on just a few occassions to mix things up I genuinley beleive we would make more scoring chances and on the basis of being able to convert these and perhaps increase our gaol tally by 20% we would have a far greater chance of success this season.

So in so far as perspectives are concerned my opinion is that we are an average side who prove hard to beat, we have a lack of flair due to the system we play and whilst I accept all the excuses regarding budgets etc I actually beleive that our "football" is a lot worse than many of those teams we have played this season. As an example if Luton had Charlie playing for them then I honestly beleive they would have taken us apart the other week as certainly there ball retention was far better than ours and they were prepared to play to feet some of the time.

This season is vital for us and I just hope that the style of football we are currently playing will be good enough come next May but have to say that I have serious reservations.
 

Perspective

I don't think anyone minds if we 'lose' to a team below our status, it's the 'not turning up' that pees loyal fans off...
 

Perspective

I don't think anyone minds if we 'lose' to a team below our status, it's the 'not turning up' that pees loyal fans off...

:sorted:and nobody is over reacting anyway. I hate these "Calm down and learn my wisdom" threads. I'd rather wave at Andy, we were crap and we are not that good but we have a good chance of doing something this season. Everybody knows that but sadly we are a bit soft.
 

Perspective

It is the curse of the supporter to over react after a defeat and in that I am no different.

Interesting stats you produce and I have no doubt that in the fullness of time we will return to the old div 3, my concern is that financially we need to make that return this season as any more time spent in the basement division will lead to a further reduction in attendance and in the bottom division you are just one bad season away from falling out of the league completely.

When Scott first took over we played some decent football and at times I have seen us do it this season however increasingly we seem one dimensional with Hamer kicking the ball upfield in the hope that Elder will win the ball in the air. Watch other teams, including Barrow, where the keeper was prepared to throw the ball out to start an attack using the midfielders or defenders this surely increases the liklihood of holding onto the ball and controlling the game.

It is this seeming lack of thought which I beleive will be the reason that we will fail this season to acheive promotion and I for one will be singularly unimpressed if that is the case as I beleive anything less will be failure.

The team have shown they can play football and if we were to follow the philosophy of playing the ball to feet using the height of Elder on just a few occassions to mix things up I genuinley beleive we would make more scoring chances and on the basis of being able to convert these and perhaps increase our gaol tally by 20% we would have a far greater chance of success this season.

:sorted: Totally with you on this bit!
 

Perspective

We know we are not a Premier team or even Championship, but what I feel most fans would appreciate is a little more consistency not only in front of goal, but in the manner of playing itself. There is nothing more frustrating than watching players that you know can perform to a certain standard, then unexplicably appearing to be falling all over the place. Hopefully, come May, we are still up there with the leaders, and if we could really perform as we can, we could easily be outright leaders as no other team in this division has anything special about them that is any greater than what our Brentford have at this moment.
 

Perspective

........... and perhaps increase our gaol tally by 20% we would have a far greater chance of success this season.

It's bloody hard enough managing with the injury situation without you suggesting that more of the squad be fitted up. :(
 

Perspective

:sorted:and nobody is over reacting anyway. I hate these "Calm down and learn my wisdom" threads. I'd rather wave at Andy, we were crap and we are not that good but we have a good chance of doing something this season. Everybody knows that but sadly we are a bit soft.

Sorry if I should have used a fishing rod smilie to illustrate the difference between irony and "calm down and learn my wisdom". The only wisdom I'd seek to impart after 30 years of watching Brentford is that you don't do it for the glory, but for a variety of probably more important reasons. Just trying to elicit a slightly different perspective. Hey ho.:idea:

We're a pretty crap team in a completely crap division (which is why, as you say, there's a chance of doing something this season) and to my eye there has been loads of over-reaction reading the various threads, suggesting it's truly awful to lose to Barrow. Anyone with more than a passing interest in Brentford would have expected (or certainly not been surprised) to get stuffed at Barrow in round 2 on a Friday night, but that's just an opinion and actually missing the point.

If I was trying to be serious, I'd ask whether you thought it was possible for us to be anything other than a slightly less crap tier 3 team (our long term average, and what I have witnessed for most of my supporting life) in the future given the financial structure of the pyramid, etc. - footballing existentialism vs. another rant about Elder's ability to hit a cow's arse with a banjo - but then presumably I'd be accused of moaning?
 

Perspective

Elder has hit that cows arse 5 times hasn't he? He has played 33 league games in his life and has 1 goal in 3. Good to see you are giving him a fair crack of the whip :rolleyes:

Everyone of my mates who i go with thinks we are far better when he plays.
 

Perspective

Elder has hit that cows arse 5 times hasn't he? He has played 33 league games in his life and has 1 goal in 3. Good to see you are giving him a fair crack of the whip :rolleyes:

Everyone of my mates who i go with thinks we are far better when he plays.

Nick, I was making the point that personally I'm interested in a discussion as to whether other GPGers think it's still possible for us ever to rise significantly above mid League 1 mediocrity, rather than another discussion about, e.g., whether Nathan, banjo, cow and arse can inter-connect or whether MA was a saint or the devil. From my limited viewing I like him, think he adds to the team and should only get better, even if his goals:game ratio isn't great, in the same way that I'd rather see Rooney playing off Heskey.
 

Perspective

SH, I believe you are destined for misunderstanding :yes: lol :sorted:
 
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