Supes42
oh we love yer baldy head
Phil Holder
I've had an email from a chap trying to trace his whereabouts, does anyone know what he's up to these days?
Phil Holder
- Thread starter Supes42
- Start date
- Latest activity Latest activity:
- Replies 168
- Views 18K
johnnym
Where did it all go wrong
Phil Holder
Works in the flower trade,often see him delivering to the pitch outside Turnham Green tube.
sleekerslee
INVALID EMAIL
vcmazz
Well-known member
Phil Holder
The only man in my lifetime to ever take the Bees into the 2nd tier. So we got unlucky with injuries and went down again. I don't care. And I don't care about his doubters. The man is a legend! :thetruth:
Kettering Bee
Bronzed God - Here to spread the love!
Phil Holder
the sqaud Perryman left him did help him alot, to replace Holdsworth with that donkey and that shocking run after xmas, Lange had a chance to sack him then:sad:
NigeriaRay
Our Man In Africa
- Joined
- 29 Mar 2006
- Messages
- 434
- Reaction score
- 162
Phil Holder
There is no doubt that Perryman left him a good squad. However, under Perryman we had one (very) good cup run but we never set the league alight. The point is, Holder got much more out of the same players, which got us to the play offs (for the first time) in his first season and the Div 3 (as was) title in his second.
As you say, up to Xmas the following year we were going well, before it all fell apart. Obviously Murray Jones was a disaster, but I never understood why he brought in "experienced" players such as Kenny Sansom and Alan Dickens who were clearly past it and stopped playing the younger players (Grant Chalmers, Lee Luscombe to name two) who had helped play a part in the good run before Xmas.
HertfordBee
INVALID EMAIL
Phil Holder
Two words - Wilf Rostron!!
I think Rostron had more influence than we realised at the time. Once he stopped playing as a result of injury and concentrated totally on the coaching side, that's when the style of play deteriorated and added to the signings you mention, it all went downhil rapidly.
Phil Holder
Could be right, we seemed to all of a sudden go for experience, Dickens seemed a good signing at the time but as we found out pretty quick he was past it and Sansom was so unfit he couldn't take part in the warm ups as I recall, still had a bit of class mind.
TW3Bee
Can We Play You Every Week
Downbeat Bee
Well-known member
sleekerslee
INVALID EMAIL
Phil Holder
I think in 1991/92 Blissett and Holdsworth were fit for most of the season and thats why we won the league.
Phil Holder
Deano hadn't scored for 26 games prior to that season due to an injury to his twin brother David that Deano was suffering from it... FACT
hense why we never went up the season beforebostonhanwell
Active member
Phil Holder
Scott and Perryman same mould
Sorry but nice guy or not, promotion previous season or not if you sign the players he did like Joe Allon, Murray Jones etc then you are not the man for me.
Steve Perryman put the exceptional title winning squad together and deserves more credit than Holder. He had an eye for talented young players and wanted to play good football. If he had stayed I believe we would have stayed up and kicked on from there. Just my opinion obviously.
I also believe we now have another manager who can pick a player from nowhere and wants to play the right way. Lets just hope we can keep him longer than Mr Perryman. These guys are worth their weight in gold.
Sorry but nice guy or not, promotion previous season or not if you sign the players he did like Joe Allon, Murray Jones etc then you are not the man for me.
Steve Perryman put the exceptional title winning squad together and deserves more credit than Holder. He had an eye for talented young players and wanted to play good football. If he had stayed I believe we would have stayed up and kicked on from there. Just my opinion obviously.
I also believe we now have another manager who can pick a player from nowhere and wants to play the right way. Lets just hope we can keep him longer than Mr Perryman. These guys are worth their weight in gold.
vcmazz
Well-known member
Phil Holder
Murray Jones is a point I must concede on. However, this Geordie Joe bashing - I'm not avin' it!
The only mistake Noddy made with him was that he didn't use him enough! He was a bit unfortunate with that toe of his and other injuries but I genuinely believe if PH had had a little more faith in him (where's the Joe Allon doubter now?
) we'd have survived that year.I read so much negative stuff about Joe Allon, what a bad signing he was etc., but it's an absolute 'old wives tale'. A myth seems to have been created that he wasn't a popular player but it's a complete nonesense. Those who can remember - think back very carefully. He was a huge terrace favourite at the time. We loved him. So where did this negative vibe about him come from?
Great signing, great character, great striker - very unfortunate ending. Wish he was 20 years younger and we could sign him now!
vcmazz
Well-known member
Phil Holder
A goal every other game then? That's a bad return is it? And makes me stupid?Joe Allon 56 games 28 goals!
I don't think so. Particularly when you consider he was probably only on the pitch for the last 10 minutes of most of those games.
Last edited:
Jimbee
Who's the dummy?
Phil Holder
A goal every other game then? That's a bad return is it? And makes me stupid?
I think you'll find he's agreeing with you. And so am I.
Bigbee
Well-known member
sleekerslee
INVALID EMAIL
Phil Holder
I liked the crisp,passing game that Phil brought to the club
So did Allan Cockram. The tactics were a bit too sophiscated for a player of Cockrams' limited abilties
WarrenBee
Well-known member
Phil Holder
Would love to see what Bliss post on this thread.
No matter what we think of Holder, he got us out of that league.
No matter what we think of Holder, he got us out of that league.
Phil Holder
No matter what we think of Holder, he got us out of that league.
then we came back and lost Bliss for peanuts
Phil Holder
Noddy, a legend, got us up to Div 2 or 1 whatever. That was a fantastic night around Brentford, the best ever. madness at the ground and got a great pic of me and him right by the top of the steps by the club office. Where is he then?
vcmazz
Well-known member
Newport Pagnell Bee
Well-known member
Phil Holder
Murray Jones is a point I must concede on. However, this Geordie Joe bashing - I'm not avin' it!
I read so much negative stuff about Joe Allon, what a bad signing he was etc., but it's an absolute 'old wives tale'. A myth seems to have been created that he wasn't a popular player but it's a complete nonesense. Those who can remember - think back very carefully. He was a huge terrace favourite at the time. We loved him. So where did this negative vibe about him come from?
I've never posted negative stuff about Joe (until now I'm afraid). I never rated him. Big grin, big reputation, seemed a nice bloke but in my opinion wasn't good enough for the old league 2. When he had a bad game, did he have a bad game. The scoring stats did surprised me though; I didn't remember such a strike rate. He did have big boots to fill though!!
NEW RD bee
INVALID EMAIL
difford
Active member
Phil Holder
?
Rostron only played twice that season the opening day loss and one sub appearance. It was Chris Houghton at left back who we missed so badly once he got injured at Sunderland.
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Phil Holder
lol yeah ok! like hell did he! helped in sending us down maybe, while taking a good 'wedge'.
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Phil Holder
rostron got involved in the coaching under Holder, Hertford Bee was commenting on how we played once he got invloved in that, nothing about Rostron's playing career that season.
Wise old Bee
Well-known member
Phil Holder
We did well considering Terry Evans was missing for a huge chunk of the season. Joe Allon was a good signing, albeit at £275k, but it's true some of the loan players were not up to it. I liked Chalmers and Luscombe too and would have liked Detzi to have played more than he did. I was never Holder's biggest fan but his achievement in getting us into the top half of the league says it all and he goes into my BFC hall of fame for that.
vcmazz
Well-known member
Phil Holder
I was a fan of Chalmers but I think you're the first person I've ever known to agree with me Wise Old Bee! He's always been heavily slated and I don't know why. I thought he looked quality the few times he was given a game.
Wise old Bee
Well-known member
Phil Holder
I was a fan of Chalmers but I think you're the first person I've ever known to agree with me Wise Old Bee! He's always been heavily slated and I don't know why. I thought he looked quality the few times he was given a game.
Especially when you consider he had little experience and came straight into the equivalent of a Div 1 side. He played a blinder, and scored, in the 5-1 against Bristol City that season and always looked comfortable in our midfield. Another one to add to my Brentford Lost Talent XI.
brentfordrule
INVALID EMAIL
- Joined
- 26 Sep 2004
- Messages
- 68
- Reaction score
- 0
Phil Holder
I used to play football with his nephew who was also called Phil Holder. Very good player at under 12's age group. went on to be part of the Chelsea academy. obviously didnt make it as a pro, being 25 and I havent ever heard of his name since! anyone know if he plays lower league?
Sandhurstbee
Member
- Joined
- 23 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 624
- Reaction score
- 0
Phil Holder
Surprised no one has mentioned that Joe Allon missed the latter part of the season after having his jaw broke in training by Micky Bennett :sad: Cost us dearly, felt sorry for Bliss 21 goals in a relegation team, but Murray Jones for Deano Agree it was mostly Perrymans team that got up up, Never forgiven Holder for slagging the fans off at GP after the Peterborough Game
Agree it was mostly Perrymans team that got up up, Never forgiven Holder for slagging the fans off at GP after the Peterborough Game - Joined
- 23 May 2000
- Messages
- 24,068
- Reaction score
- 15,795
Phil Holder
Surprised no one has mentioned that Joe Allon missed the latter part of the season after having his jaw broke in training by Micky Bennett :sad: Cost us dearly, felt sorry for Bliss 21 goals in a relegation team, but Murray Jones for Deano
Allon missed some of the following season - not the relegation season. Blisset was wonderful and Allon OK but holder could not decide who was his best partnership as Jones and Gayle also played up front in many games.
absenteebee
INVALID EMAIL
- Joined
- 19 May 2006
- Messages
- 11,460
- Reaction score
- 11
Phil Holder
getting to a year on, can i just say that is one of my favourite lines I've read on this site. very good!
macsalisbee
Active member
Phil Holder
Holder deserves great credit for the Championship. Considering he was a full back himself, I could never understand why he did'nt shore up the left back position the next season earlier. Who can forget Marcus Gayle v Millwall?
Sansom was well past his best,but did a job. Too little, too late.
Sansom was well past his best,but did a job. Too little, too late.
Paul O'Brien
Active member
Phil Holder
Yes. I seem to remember that we were doing pretty well - were we about
6th or so? until we suddenly got hit by a spate of defensinve injuries, mainly at left back.
macsalisbee
Active member
Phil Holder
We were, I think, 6th ater the 1-1 draw at Notts County just after Christmas. The players all looked shattered at the end.
The rest of the division sussed out that if they went through the middle and bypassed Ratcliffe, our insistence on having two wide players who stayed wide, proved to be our downfall
Phil Holder
Would love to see what Bliss post on this thread.
No matter what we think of Holder, he got us out of that league.
I am gonna be in London 0n the 24-25-26th July and would greatfully buy a beer (or bunch of roses for my old trainer). If anyone sees the wee man before then let me know please..And hopefully that answers your question..
Phil Holder
highest we reached was 8th that season.
holder did a great job, we were unlucky in the end just think we held out untill the last day. was a sad day though, remember going to stripes after, what a downer!
sonofabee
Well-known member
Phil Holder
Failing to keep Holdsworth by granting him the payrise he wanted, not getting an even half decent replacement, and losing Big Tel for virtually all season. 2 out of 3 not Noddys fault, Murray Jones was down to him though!
Phil Holder
fair comment, but have to say in my time i think every manager there has been there has been a poor signing! and cant blame that one signing for getting relegated as there were other players throughout the season.
sonofabee
Well-known member
Phil Holder
Agree, He did the best he could with with what he had available to him IMHO.
It all went wrong after Xmas and he couldn't cope with the injuries and seemed unable to network effectively to attract the right type of players to the club. We needed hungry battlers and got Sansom who was happy to trot around and collect the money.
Billy Hunt
445
Phil Holder
Sansom did not trot around when playing for us. He wobbled.
What did Noddy do directly after leaving us?
Was the opinion that he 'only' took Perryman's team up shared by the footballing world?
vcmazz
Well-known member
Phil Holder
Got to disagree on both counts. Sansom was a troubled soul when he signed for us and he STILL looked in a class of his own from the centre of the New Road.Sansom did not trot around when playing for us. He wobbled.
What did Noddy do directly after leaving us?
Was the opinion that he 'only' took Perryman's team up shared by the footballing world?
Didn't Noddy coach at Reading for a while when he was disgracefully dismissed? I think it was whilst there that legend has it he punched Keith Loring? :box:
'He took Perryman's team up' - another myth. He took Perryman and HOLDER'S team up. It was only because he had the good grace to acknowledge Perryman after promotion that the myth lives on.
He remains: A) The only manager in my lifetime EVER to take Brentford into the second tier and B) The only manager in my lifetime EVER to punch Keith Loring. Phil Holder - I salute you! :beer: