players leaving

[mhead bee]

In response to an earlier message regarding lloyd resigned to leaving the bees I have some concerning news.

Everybody who knows me from here will know how arsey I get when people spread gossip but don't name the sources. Well I have accused pandora of this consistently over the past 12 months. Pandora in a bid to add credibility to his claims gave me some information and he also gave me names and times etc. He of course is sworn to secrecy by the players concerned as it could drop them in the sh*te big time! I have to say that although the players have requested he breaks the news, they have also requested annonymity. Because of this I have kept it to myself because it goes against all I have argued against, name the source of keep it to yourself.

But , just this once, I am going to tell you what pandora told me (I have his permission).

Pandora was with three of our players and they told him the following. 16 players are out of contract at the end of the season,RN has told them that not even one of these players will be offered a new contract whether we go up or not. A lot of the players want a new contract and have asked John Griffin to approach ron again to ask him to chnge his mind. It also appears that even if he does change his mind 6 players have been informed that they will receive better offers elsewhere and will likely just leave anyway. RN also stated he wants to keep all these players till the end of the season.

Now, I know for a fact that I only share some information with my peers regarding my contract/salary and discussions re my future with my boss! I am sure the bees players are the same. I do not doubt that what pandora has told me was true, but having said that, it may have been exagerated by the players or even a bit emotional at the time.

I would be suprised if a) a good offer came in ron wouldn't snap it up to reduce his debt B) Why wouldn't he offer a contract to 6 top class future premiership stars but would offer one to jason price, and finally C), RN seems to make decisions and then change his mind as and when it suits him. It appears that deals have been struc for players to move, they have known they are going only to find out ron has changed his mind.

My opinion is that RN mind is driven by business, but his heart and ego still see a good team full of players he discovered as manager, doing well and he wants to go out on a high....but what do I know!!

 

[Bee H]

all very correct indeed re the players not being offered new contracts due to Mr Noades.

in anwser to your questions mhead,

1 if the planning permission gets approved, Mr Noades' guarantees would be more than clear hence why he doesn't actually need to sell anyone at this time

2 How many times have I got to post that Jason Price was offered a contract ONLY to the end of the season

3 be careful mhead, you'll be joining the ranks of abee and Baz Bee and certain other people who have done no wrong but who have (imho) been picked on by Mr Noades and publicly slated

anyway, perhaps another question or two above for Mr Noades to respond to IF he actually gave a flying feck about BFC !

 

[JonnieGee]

Let’s play: Who Wants to be a Millionaire Chairman. Unlike the real Who Wants To Be A Millionaire there are only 3 choices.

So pick the right answer bearing in mind that you are a Chairman looking to minimise the debt.

If your team is doing unexpectedly well in the League and have a significant portion of the players out of contract at the end of the season would you:

a) Offer the players out of contract very large amounts of money to sign a new contract thereby growing the overdraft, hoping that you get promoted and have some positive news on relocating your ground to allow you to generate increased future revenues. (If you fail with promotion and new ground development Administration, or worse bankruptcy, is likely to follow quickly as you won’t be able to sustain your debt).

b) Take “silly” offers for your players and scupper the promotion charge but reduce losses and support the long-term viability of the club.

c) Support the Manager/Team, bring in loan players to supplement the team when necessary. Keeping all the players to the end of the season and hope you achieve promotion and a new ground is progressed. If it is then negotiate with the out of contract players at the end of the season based on offering higher level football and an improved financial deal (using money from increased TV revenues and project revenue streams from the new ground).

I believe RN mat have chosen c). What would you do?

 

[Gee Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JonnieGee:
Let’s play: Who Wants to be a Millionaire Chairman. Unlike the real Who Wants To Be A Millionaire there are only 3 choices.

So pick the right answer bearing in mind that you are a Chairman looking to minimise the debt.

If your team is doing unexpectedly well in the League and have a significant portion of the players out of contract at the end of the season would you:

a) Offer the players out of contract very large amounts of money to sign a new contract thereby growing the overdraft, hoping that you get promoted and have some positive news on relocating your ground to allow you to generate increased future revenues. (If you fail with promotion and new ground development Administration, or worse bankruptcy, is likely to follow quickly as you won’t be able to sustain your debt).

b) Take “silly” offers for your players and scupper the promotion charge but reduce losses and support the long-term viability of the club.

c) Support the Manager/Team, bring in loan players to supplement the team when necessary. Keeping all the players to the end of the season and hope you achieve promotion and a new ground is progressed. If it is then negotiate with the out of contract players at the end of the season based on offering higher level football and an improved financial deal (using money from increased TV revenues and project revenue streams from the new ground).

I believe RN mat have chosen c). What would you do? </font>

Yes you are right to select c). Lets also not forget that even if all or many of the players with contracts up at the end of the season were offered improved deals. It does not necessarily mean they would stay. With no transfer fee involved the better players would be able to obtain significant signing on fees. Even if we wanted to sell they could still refuse to go until their contract expires because a better deal could be obtained then by the individual, aka Chris Bart-Williams.
It is only the very big clubs who start to negotiate new contracts with players 18 months or more before they expire, and this is so they can continue to have them on 5 year deals and maintain a good transfer value in their balance sheet. Small clubs have to sail close to the wind because financially they cannot over commit on long term contracts.

 

[Bee H]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JonnieGee:
Let’s play: Who Wants to be a Millionaire Chairman. Unlike the real Who Wants To Be A Millionaire there are only 3 choices.

So pick the right answer bearing in mind that you are a Chairman looking to minimise the debt.

If your team is doing unexpectedly well in the League and have a significant portion of the players out of contract at the end of the season would you:

a) Offer the players out of contract very large amounts of money to sign a new contract thereby growing the overdraft, hoping that you get promoted and have some positive news on relocating your ground to allow you to generate increased future revenues. (If you fail with promotion and new ground development Administration, or worse bankruptcy, is likely to follow quickly as you won’t be able to sustain your debt).

b) Take “silly” offers for your players and scupper the promotion charge but reduce losses and support the long-term viability of the club.

c) Support the Manager/Team, bring in loan players to supplement the team when necessary. Keeping all the players to the end of the season and hope you achieve promotion and a new ground is progressed. If it is then negotiate with the out of contract players at the end of the season based on offering higher level football and an improved financial deal (using money from increased TV revenues and project revenue streams from the new ground).

I believe RN mat have chosen c). What would you do? </font>

well in the first place I'm damned as sure as hell not get to the Club right in sh1t street in the first place

I'd put some of my money in to the club

I'd be nice to those "thick prat" supporters

After declaring in a February that the season's over, I wouldn't moan about lack of crowds

I'd take PR lessons

I'd be very open and clear about the clubs future with the players, press and fans and anyone else

I'd employ people like JohnnieGee with brown tongues to support me and not question anything !

 

[SQUELCH]

If that means at the end of this season we are gonna bee minus 16 players, we will be lucky to put a team together! our squad now is what roughly 27 add ya 2 loanees we have then subtract 16 that leaves us with a squad of 13!!!! as we cant buy players we r gonna be a laughing stock in div 1 cos believe it ron the way we have been playing throughout the season we r gonna be there or there abouts and its about bloody time BFC had a bit of lady luck. forget about getting a new ground as it looks like providing what above is true we wont have a team that can play there!

oh fun and games as a bees fan, never a dull moment?

 

[Moysy]

For goodness sake lads. Dont forget that on this board over the last year messages were posted that Mahon, Evans, Owusu, Powell, Gibbs etc etc were definately leaving the club. These players are still here. Why cant we just enjoy the fact that we are pushing for promotion and get off of Rons back. Do you really think he would let players contracts just expire when they would have no value.

 

[Bee H]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Moysy:
Do you really think he would let players contracts just expire when they would have no value. </font>

Yes !

Where a players contract expires in June 2002, if they haven't signed a contract by Jan 1st, then they're free to speak to other clubs and negotiate a contract ready for 2003 - 03.

The players will go and the BFC propoganda machine will kick in re 'players being greedy' etc., etc. Is Mr Noades retiring at the end of the season as I believe he has previously stated ?

 

[PAZ]

JonnieGee, what you fail to observe is that it may not be possible to offer the players contracts at the end of the season since they may already have signed elsewhere.
If it seems a new contract is unlikely, they'll take what they can from another club.
Furthermore, very soon other clubs will be able to offer them large,attractive contacts which they may take regardless. If Birmingham came in for Mahon, he'd go regardless. Our best players WILL be offered enticing contracts by other clubs long before the end of the season.

 

[PAZ]

The main point of that post is that therefore, you, and Ron, are d*cks.

 

[AB]

The sky is falling in. Oh no, it is just night.

Time for bed.

Wake me up when something happens.

Boing!

 

[Bee H]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AB:
Wake me up when something happens.
</font>

what, when it's too late to do anything !

 

[andyrew]

Anybody got £3.75 million and can lay their hands on 4,000 fans to add to our loyal band?

 

[PAZ]

We've got enough fans as long as we play well. We're a very well supported lower division club in a kind of fair weather kind of way. As long as we produce the football, the fans will come as can be seen from some of our attendances this season.
I still feel our crowds are too white dominated, especially given our extreme proximity to Hounslow, Hayes, Heston etc. If we get the Asians coming, things will improve.
As for the money, ideally Ron will accept a loss and sell the club to a new owner without the debt. Sadly, I don't think Ron works like that.
Keep buying your lottery tickets, boys.

 

[JonnieGee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PAZ:
The main point of that post is that therefore, you, and Ron, are d*cks.</font>

I hope you are not referring to me as a d*ck!

I'm very well aware of the facts but I have put forward 3 options. You have suggested that the players may choose to sign for someone else however they still will have to see their contract out.

How about being realistic and choosing an option/or suggesting what RN should do instead of calling people names?

 

[JonnieGee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bee H:
well in the first place I'm damned as sure as hell not get to the Club right in sh1t street in the first place

I'd put some of my money in to the club

I'd be nice to those "thick prat" supporters

After declaring in a February that the season's over, I wouldn't moan about lack of crowds

I'd take PR lessons

I'd be very open and clear about the clubs future with the players, press and fans and anyone else

I'd employ people like JohnnieGee with brown tongues to support me and not question anything ! </font>

 

[JonnieGee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bee H:
well in the first place I'm damned as sure as hell not get to the Club right in sh1t street in the first place

I'd put some of my money in to the club

I'd be nice to those "thick prat" supporters

After declaring in a February that the season's over, I wouldn't moan about lack of crowds

I'd take PR lessons

I'd be very open and clear about the clubs future with the players, press and fans and anyone else

I'd employ people like JohnnieGee with brown tongues to support me and not question anything ! </font>

Well BH you seem to think I'm supporting some of the things that have happened in the past. I've certainly not said that in my post. I simply asking that given the current situation what is the best thing to do?

Your answer is to moan about the past. This may make you feel better but it doesn't help to see what can be done for the future!

 

[pandora]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bee H:


3 be careful mhead, you'll be joining the ranks of abee and Baz Bee and certain other people who have done no wrong but who have (imho) been picked on by Mr Noades and publicly slated

</font>

Wow
how on earth did you forsee this!!!!!

 

[Bee H]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bee H:
3 be careful mhead, you'll be joining the ranks of abee and Baz Bee and certain other people who have done no wrong but who have (imho) been picked on by Mr Noades and publicly slated
</font>

Now those of you that know me know that I don't really like saying "I told you so !" BUT "I told you so !"

 

[Dragonfly]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PAZ:
I still feel our crowds are too white dominated, especially given our extreme proximity to Hounslow, Hayes, Heston etc. If we get the Asians coming, things will improve.</font>

This is very very difficult. Clubs like Bradford, Wolves, Leicester etc can't attract Asian supporters.

 

[Edmundo]

http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/today/view/breaking_news_detail/0,1563,10421~136229,00.html

As some of you have already noticed, Ron has replied to this thread. Make what you will of his response.

At the end he asks whether the Grapevine can stop anonymous rumour mongering. I will contact the club about this point - obviously we can't - but there's no harm in me reminding everyone about the consent they agreed to when they registered.

 

[Silly Chip]

Can't we all start backing Ron for his efforts in ensuring Brentford's future? Where would we be if David Webb was still here? Are not we all innocent until proven guilty....give the man a break!

 

[andyrew]

I quite agree with PutneyBee, I simply can't believe how NEGATIVE some of the messages are that are put on this board. I'm sure a doctor could prescibe PROZAC if you're that depressed and hence depressing! If you're reading this Ron I say don't retire at the end of the season - keep going at least until the new ground is sorted out!

 

[Idaho Bee]

You forgot Option d) for the millionaire chairman - stop reading the gpg and beesotted message boards!!

If I was in the position most Bees fans dream off, i.e. enough money to bankroll the club and to put your time and money in doing all you can to make it successful, I would NOT read the message boards.

It would be too depressing because 80% of the posts are critical, and if it's a slow day/week, people start making things up.

Pre Internet days, this stuff was discussed / speculated over a few pints by a few people. Post Internet, thousands of people get (mostly) bogus information quickly and then start a feeding frenzy.

Seriously Ron, for the sake of BFC, stop reading the messageboards, or at least take was is said with a very large pinch of salt.

 

[TooTallBee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Edmundo:
[B
At the end he asks whether the Grapevine can stop anonymous rumour mongering. I will contact the club about this point - obviously we can't - but there's no harm in me reminding everyone about the consent they agreed to when they registered.[/B]</font>

I think that due to the Chairman directly answering points made on this site and quoting 'names' I think we are in danger of new members making mindless statements just to see their name mentioned by Mr N.
I personally believe that PAZ could fall into this catogory.
It would be very disappointing if the benefit that we all get from this site is damaged becasue of this.

 

[JonnieGee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TooTallBee:

I think that due to the Chairman directly answering points made on this site and quoting 'names' I think we are in danger of new members making mindless statements just to see their name mentioned by Mr N.
I personally believe that PAZ could fall into this catogory.
It would be very disappointing if the benefit that we all get from this site is damaged becasue of this.

</font>

I agree with you 100%!

 

[Bucks Bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PutneyBee:
Can't we all start backing Ron for his efforts in ensuring Brentford's future? Where would we be if David Webb was still here? Are not we all innocent until proven guilty....give the man a break!</font>

I agree 100%. At the end of the day no-one, not a single one of us, knows exactly what is going on, and the situation with regards discussions between players and management. I applaud Mr Noades and the Club for having the good sense to make situations that arise through rumour-mongering quite clear!

The lads need our support - we all know how important it is for the club to gain promotion this year, and I am sure this is not lost on the club or indeed Mr Noades.

So lets remember the facts - we are 3rd in the league, with a good set of players who put their all in for the club. They players keep their end of the bargain, its time we all keep our end!!

Before I get any jip, I am not singling anyone out and am not suggesting people aren't true supporters etc - this is just something i feel strongly about. Rant over!!

 

[mhead bee]

All I did was repeat what I was told by pandora. I also put in my message how I felt that it was unlikely that a player would tell anybody of their personal situation unless it was enhanced by alchahol and emotion, in the heat of the moment probably.
Nice of RN to respond though and I still think we will go up!

 

[Bucks Bee]

furry muff

 

[Baz Bee]

It is OK criticising alleged rumours, but the question is surely why did they occur in the first place and what is the intent behind them?

In the case of football players I would say that many aspects of their careers are in the public domain and will, by virtue of human nature, be open to discussion, conjecture, etc. To suggest that this will not be the case is naïve in the extreme. The question then arises as to why this speculation or rumour mongering starts? Well I would say that often it is out of concern for “your” club. What is wrong about wanting to know whether certain players may be playing next week, next month or next season? They may be present players or new players! I cannot understand why the club are reluctant to keep supporters informed of specific aspects of players contracts. Surely it should be common knowledge regarding length of contract? So why the confusion over how many players have contracts expiring on 30 June 2002?

However, I would not consider that specific aspects of a players contract are for public consumption. Particularly salary, bonus, relocation allowances, signing on fees and the like.

One thing I am not clear on is what Ron Noades means in his last sentence of paragraph one of his statement. If he has not told any players that they will not be offered new contracts (i.e. I assume he has said nothing to any of the players?) then why would they have spoken to John Griffin to speak to Ron? In other words if Ron has said nothing what relevance is the John Griffin statement? Just appears rather a peculiar thing to say if the first part of the sentence is correct?

Anyway, I would say that the bottom line is that much rumour mongering could be stopped if the club’s PR was better geared to keeping supporters properly informed. I would, however, say that the information now flowing is much improved over that which was previously disseminated, but there is always room for improvement.

 

[Bigbee]

if rumours were snuffed out quickly as in this one the situation wouldnt happen.Its when theyre left to run and run that theye escalate ( sp ).Snuff them in the bud Chappers,management !

BTW ,why was Gav in a supermarket in Birmingham this week ? ............

 

[JimP]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mhead bee:
All I did was repeat what I was told by pandora. </font>

What you actually said was:
"I do not doubt that what pandora has told me was true, but having said that, it may have been exagerated by the players or even a bit emotional at the time."
So not only did you repeat it, you backed it up as the truth (I think, although the qualifications are a bit confusing) rather than the usual pack of half-arsed, fictional toss that passes for "inside knowledge" on this board. As I've tried to point out before, half the present team shouldn't be here according to the "cast-iron, on-my-life, trust-me-on-this-one" FACTS that were perpetrated last season. When are we going to stop believing this CRAP ?

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Nice of RN to respond though and I still think we will go up!</font>

Glad to hear it... and when we do I hope a few people will get in here and offer their abject apologies to the guy who made it possible.

 

[Bee H]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by JimP:
and when we do I hope a few people will get in here and offer their abject apologies to the guy who made it possible.</font>

just deleted what I originally posted - had enough solicitors bills from my divorce

[This message has been edited by Bee H (edited 07 December 2001).]

 

[mhead bee]

I have always stuck up for RN to a certain extent and have never slated him for anything.

I have often pointed out that all the players bar ijah have been brought in from non league, lower league clubs etc, all by the hand of RN. It is the one thing he is excellent at!
As for the finances, well, I don't really understand what it all means. All I do know is only two players have left who I rated to join a third division struggling team. They still don't seem to be playing!

I will not understand what RN has done to the bees financially until he leaves and either takes the debt with him or leaves it with us. Until then we just have to hope he is doing the right thing.

Finally, when pandora gave me the info he did, I spent a week or so deciding whether or not to publish it as It has always been my policy to name and shame or keep it to yourself. After some deliberation I have decided to come out with it but now I am re convinced my original policy was the right one.
Wwe shall see at the end of the season how much substance there is to pandoras stories...so until then, 4 wins on the trot and top of league by january 2nd..heard it here first!!

 

[Bee H]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mhead bee:
All I do know is only two players have left who I rated to join a third division struggling team. They still don't seem to be playing!

I will not understand what RN has done to the bees financially </font>

point 1 both injured (AS torn hamstring and RQ pulled hamstring) although should both be back next Saturday

point 2 perhaps Jim P will tell you !

 

[mhead bee]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bee H:
point 1 both injured (AS torn hamstring and RQ pulled hamstring) although should both be back next Saturday

point 2 perhaps Jim P will tell you !</font>

We can all look at a balance sheet and do our sums, what my point is, we do not know what ron intends to do!, he may leave us in the sh*te or he may actually have to clear some of his debt before he goes as he guarantees it. Only he knows and we have no way of knowing ourselves until he leaves!!

 

[pandora]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bigbee:



BTW ,why was Gav in a supermarket in Birmingham this week ? ............

</font>

Shopping for his mum...........