Sack them or Back them

[Nick Hester]

It may have been raised elsewhere, but I am amazed that the Football Club Board have not yet publically 'backed' Butcher and Scott?

I know it all gets linked with 'the dreaded vote of confidence' tag, but I am so surprised that there has been no formal statement made?

I read that there were boos, demonstrations, 'Martin Allen' songs all round the ground on Tuesday, whatever you feel about Butcher and Scott, surely they need to know where they stand..

So wouldn't you expect the Board to have either sacked them or actually show a unity of support and say as much?

You never know, with the backing of the Club, if not the fans, it might actually allow them to give it their best shot on Tuesday which lets face it..is a must win game..

 

[SpiderBee]

It may have been raised elsewhere, but I am amazed that the Football Club Board have not yet publically 'backed' Butcher and Scott?

I know it all gets linked with 'the dreaded vote of confidence' tag, but I am so surprised that there has been no formal statement made?

I read that there were boos, demonstrations, 'Martin Allen' songs all round the ground on Tuesday, whatever you feel about Butcher and Scott, surely they need to know where they stand..

So wouldn't you expect the Board to have either sacked them or actually show a unity of support and say as much?

You never know, with the backing of the Club, if not the fans, it might actually allow them to give it their best shot on Tuesday which lets face it..is a must win game..

Wonder what they are all doing on Saturday?
Is there no friendly?

 

[SmiffyBee]

There were bigger Boos and Butcher OUT chants at Peterboro....

I expected more response from "the significantly disgruntled" on Tuesday

 

[Willo]

Weird game football. A couple of weeks ago there were hundreds of Bees fans singing both these guys names

 

[Les Beeavinu]

There were bigger Boos and Butcher OUT chants at Peterboro....

I expected more response from "the significantly disgruntled" on Tuesday

They probably weren't there.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Weird game football. A couple of weeks ago there were hundreds of Bees fans singing both these guys names

If you mean Luton then I can remember saying "How can you clap that pair after Macclesfield!"

 

[Ace Face]

I would like them to leave with their integrity intact, but I can`t be bothered to shout abuse or protest anymore. Anyway we would still have five or six donkeys who would still be at BFC.

I have accepted we are a sh*te Div 2 team and the only thing that keeps me going is PJs football trivia questions. Peter Beardsley???

 

[Nick Hester]

There were bigger Boos and Butcher OUT chants at Peterboro....

I expected more response from "the significantly disgruntled" on Tuesday

I kept myself away on Tuesday, for as people know, I can spout my mouth off (as we all can on here) without actually thinking about the bigger picture.

It saddens me how low the club has gone, I'm argueing with those around me, the same people who love and breath Brentford like me, I bring my mood home to my family..
I also don't really like seeing people being hounded, especially when there is nothing they can seemingly do within their powers,it was unpleasant when I saw Leroy walking the last walk with people baying for his blood, and I certaintly don't want to be part of the Scott thing as he is a friend.. Thats not to say I don't blame people for doing so.. Its our club, I blame the Club in general, others will blame, Butcher, Scott, the players etc..no one person is right or wrong..

I don't think Butcher or Scott have made very good signings, I don't like Butchers body language, If I were a manager I'd have had the squad back in on the Sunday after Peterboro' etc etc.. but you can't just keep changing the managers every month..

No team should lose 7-0 even in a Sunday pub league so I am so ashamed, hurt etc like the rest of us.. I also know that Dyke misled supporters with un true comments.. £250,000 for players, 'Promotion budgets' etc ..

10% of that budget is wages for ONE player inherited by the manager, the most part of the rest was already tied up on wages for those already on contracts..if only people realised what some of these players in the Brentford first team are actually on wage wise.. I believe some are on as little as £180 a WEEK!!!!!

What do they say about paying peanuts...??

I'm not trying to stick up for the team, management etc as my only concern is that we WIN games, no matter how we do it..

I would just like some 'formal' apology from the Board, a statement telling fans the true facts re budgets etc and a public backing of TB and AS if they feel that that is in fact what they want to do (well they haven't sacked them have they?) rather than people mis informing fans at Fans Forums and even in the media about funds available from new investors etc..

It sounds as if last night Greg & co were doing a bit of back tracking on how good the playing budget actually was after the prior announcement at the previous one..

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I felt sorry for Leroy and sorry for Fitz. Leroy wasn't up to it and that image of that seemingly broken man walking up and down that touchline was a truly horrible thing. Fitz had no chance but got a team together in a very short space of time that won 4 games on the trot and had the momentum to avoid relegation. Then bloody Northampton come to town only 2 days after us winning well up at Huddersfield and destroy us and we fall apart and the guy is sacked when he never really had too much chance.
TB and AS are different, I wish them both well but they had time and a virtual clean slate to start with and although they have probably put the work in, we do find ourselves in a right sorry state. Looking where we are I struggle to cope with anyone suggesting that they are the right duo and that they need more time. I'll smile and applaud anyone, I'll join in and be a happy clapper with stuff that doesn't deserve it as that is something we all do with that human nature bug inside us, but I can't clap these two for what they are doing at GP.

 

[SpiderBee]

I felt sorry for Leroy and sorry for Fitz. Leroy wasn't up to it and that image of that seemingly broken man walking up and down that touchline was a truly horrible thing. Fitz had no chance but got a team together in a very short space of time that won 4 games on the trot and had the momentum to avoid relegation. Then bloody Northampton come to town only 2 days after us winning well up at Huddersfield and destroy us and we fall apart and the guy is sacked when he never really had too much chance.
TB and AS are different, I wish them both well but they had time and a virtual clean slate to start with and although they have probably put the work in, we do find ourselves in a right sorry state. Looking where we are I struggle to cope with anyone suggesting that they are the right duo and that they need more time. I'll smile and applaud anyone, I'll join in and be a happy slapper with stuff that doesn't deserve it as that is something we all do with that human nature bug inside us, but I can't slap these two for what they are doing at GP.

That's better eh?

 

[hayes bee]

for the first time in my life i feel the light that is brentford fc is starting to go out and its f g sad

 

[Gee Bee]

for the first time in my life i feel the light that is brentford fc is starting to go out and its f g sad

You obviously were not about in 1967 then.

 

[NigeriaRay]

TB and AS are different, I wish them both well but they had time and a virtual clean slate to start with and although they have probably put the work in, we do find ourselves in a right sorry state. Looking where we are I struggle to cope with anyone suggesting that they are the right duo and that they need more time. .

I agree. I can't get to many games these days but I always listen to the commentary on Beesworld and it doesn't make for pleasant listening. The commentators can only report on what they see & with the exceptions of Bury & Chester away (server was down for the Bradford game) and one or two other occasions, I have heard very little that makes me think we are on the right track.

Peterborough was (hopefully) a one off & I tuned in on Tuesday night fully expecting to listen to a rousing Bees performance with a bit of fire in the belly (as someone used to say) Whatever the result, I wanted to hear that the players had given it a real go.

I didn't hear that & I just hope that when I read on a post on another thread that KD claims that he knew when LR had lost it & feels that TB hasn't reached that point (yet), that he is right. What I have listened to suggests otherwise.

 

[Gee Bee]

Reports on the fans forum, suggests that they are backing them and have done so publicly at the forum.

 

[beeeehive]

They're too smart not to back Butcher at the moment.

 

[hayes bee]

You obviously were not about in 1967 then.

yes i think i was ,started going when gordon phillips was in goal family friend

 

[Roo Bee]

I think we should back, sack, & crack them both

 

[Gee Bee]

yes i think i was ,started going when gordon phillips was in goal family friend

So it can't be your first time that you are seeing the light going out then.

 

[hayes bee]

we had a crowd then and players that wanted to play for the club

 

[Gee Bee]

we had a crowd then and players that wanted to play for the club

That is not the point, the club was on the brink of folding, by way of sale and merger, despite the size of crowd the team were stillthe 4th division as we are today, so maybe they weren't as different. Either way the light was almost out.

 

[Calne Bee]

I believe some are on as little as £180 a WEEK!!!!!

What do they say about paying peanuts...??

Wonder if they claim Working Tax Credit :sad:


And I assume if some players are on the minimum wage, our wage budget has gone up from the 1st of October (new rate of £5.52 an hour ... 18p more !!!). ?

 

[Brain-dead Bee]

Wonder if they claim Working Tax Credit :sad:


And I assume if some players are on the minimum wage, our wage budget has gone up from the 1st of October (new rate of £5.52 an hour ... 18p more !!!). ?

Yes, but 2 hours training 5 days a week and 3 hours on match day - 13 hours times £5.52 is around £72

 

[WisBee]

I felt sorry for Leroy and sorry for Fitz. Leroy wasn't up to it and that image of that seemingly broken man walking up and down that touchline was a truly horrible thing. Fitz had no chance but got a team together in a very short space of time that won 4 games on the trot and had the momentum to avoid relegation. Then bloody SKY TV come to town only 2 days after us winning well up at Huddersfield and destroy us and we fall apart and the guy is sacked when he never really had too much chance.
TB and AS are different, I wish them both well but they had time and a virtual clean slate to start with and although they have probably put the work in, we do find ourselves in a right sorry state. Looking where we are I struggle to cope with anyone suggesting that they are the right duo and that they need more time. I'll smile and applaud anyone, I'll join in and be a happy clapper with stuff that doesn't deserve it as that is something we all do with that human nature bug inside us, but I can't clap these two for what they are doing at GP.

..................hope you don't mind the adjustment, wouldn't want people thinking that you were taking the blame!!.......................

 

[sonofabee]

It may have been raised elsewhere, but I am amazed that the Football Club Board have not yet publically 'backed' Butcher and Scott?

I know it all gets linked with 'the dreaded vote of confidence' tag, but I am so surprised that there has been no formal statement made?

I read that there were boos, demonstrations, 'Martin Allen' songs all round the ground on Tuesday, whatever you feel about Butcher and Scott, surely they need to know where they stand..

So wouldn't you expect the Board to have either sacked them or actually show a unity of support and say as much?

You never know, with the backing of the Club, if not the fans, it might actually allow them to give it their best shot on Tuesday which lets face it..is a must win game..

Greenholme,

It was like a morgue Tuesday, 2500 +.

There was a 30 second rendition of "One Martin Allen" and muffled boos at the end but that was about it. Not having a pop but the paddock was the emptiest I've ever seen and there was a few on the right side of the Ealing road trying occasionally.

 

[hayes bee]

sounds i missed nothing then

 

[Wise old Bee]

You obviously were not about in 1967 then.

Post the takeover attempt we had one of the most threadbare squads ever at GP. It is to Jimmy Sirrell's credit that he managed to keep a tiny squad together that was always competitive, was always in the top half of the table and rarely lost home games. We existed on free transfers as there was no junior or reserve side then and we had long-serving players like Gelson, Hawley, Ross, and Gordon Phillips who provided the backbone of the side. It's that sort of fighting spirit we need now. Personally, the less I hear about the board the better.

 

[KGB]

I agree with Hayesbee - of course you are right Geebee that the situation was dire in 1967 but there seemed to be much more determination to put it right. I'm not knocking BU by saying that but ultimately Blindell, Wheatley, Pond-Jones et al gave us a chance & the situation was turned around more quickly. The situation on the field was also not good, but again there was a spirit about the team & manager which felt worth supporting.

Hayesbee was talking about how he felt & I can understand what he means. At present we are dying a slow & painful death with massive debt & only one flaky escape route. We have at least 18 months more of the same 'key' players at the club & after the last 18 months it is not surprising that optimism is at rock bottom.

I hope the 'announcement' that is being hinted at is some real indication of progress as otherwise it will be one in a string of optimistic 'leaks' that build up expectation & ultimately disappoint.

 

[cornish bee]

1967 was one sad era, and one I too can remember. Sadly 2007 is another. Do you guys notice one thing about the current state of BFC. The Management always get the slagging off and they are without doubt the 'scape goats'. Its easier to sack the manager than the players, but what about the board. They are the ones that are juggling the purse strings and not giving any financial backing for decent players. Greg Dyke says he's been a bees fan all his life, but he can't be, otherwise with his sort of money he would give some to the club to improve its overall status, or to buy one or 2 decent players, not just allow the management to purchase rejects for free. I say we sack the board and get a board of people willing to support the Bees and not allow it to sink to the lower end of the football league, which is where Brentford sadly is going to end up. Next year if we don't watch out we could be joining Exeter, Oxford and York to name but a few in the Confrence, the following season we could end up even lower. I have supported the Bees for well over 40 years and will continue to do so, through thick and thin. In this world you have to speculate to accumulate, something BFC doesn't seem to do. Lets get rid of Dyke and co and get a board that want to take this club, our club forward.

 

[North London Bee]

I think that in the past w ehave always got by in times of real despair owing to the comittment shown by players who appeared if not to love the club but to have an affinity with it which motivated them to go the extra mile.

Maybe too they took a greater pride in ensuring thay maintained a more professional level of achievement and performance.

You felt that Higgy, Bobby Ross, Jackie Graham, Roger Cross, Peter Gelson and many more really cared about the club and would sweat blood in its defence.

Who do you feel that about now? KOC maybe but he does not appear to be a leader.

Nobody else in my opinion.

The rest of the njourneymen mercaneries do not seem to give a monkeys - surprising also because where do they all go after Brentford - not upwards certainly.

 

[Nick Hester]

I think that in the past w ehave always got by in times of real despair owing to the comittment shown by players who appeared if not to love the club but to have an affinity with it which motivated them to go the extra mile.

Maybe too they took a greater pride in ensuring thay maintained a more professional level of achievement and performance.

You felt that Higgy, Bobby Ross, Jackie Graham, Roger Cross, Peter Gelson and many more really cared about the club and would sweat blood in its defence.

Who do you feel that about now? KOC maybe but he does not appear to be a leader.

Nobody else in my opinion.

The rest of the njourneymen mercaneries do not seem to give a monkeys - surprising also because where do they all go after Brentford - not upwards certainly.

Good Post - Spot on.

And you'll get no loyalty from loanees either.

 

[abee]

I think that in the past w ehave always got by in times of real despair owing to the comittment shown by players who appeared if not to love the club but to have an affinity with it which motivated them to go the extra mile.

Maybe too they took a greater pride in ensuring thay maintained a more professional level of achievement and performance.

You felt that Higgy, Bobby Ross, Jackie Graham, Roger Cross, Peter Gelson and many more really cared about the club and would sweat blood in its defence.

Who do you feel that about now? KOC maybe but he does not appear to be a leader.

Nobody else in my opinion.

The rest of the njourneymen mercaneries do not seem to give a monkeys - surprising also because where do they all go after Brentford - not upwards certainly.

The game has changed NLB and in my judgment for the worse.

Supporters simply cannot have it both ways and can't be howling that players should only be given one year contracts as the default term with longer contracts for special cases only (see Bish/Ace Face passim) and then get all nostalgic about the days when we had players for five, six or seven seasons and they became part of the family. I simply do not understand the role of agents these days other than to unsettle players, engineer a move that the player had probably not previously contemplated and line their own pockets. Wasn't our first rather naive experience of agents at the club when Eric Hall pitched up one Tuesday evening smoking a cigar and telling us that he was here to move Nicky Forster on.

 

[KGB]

NLB & Greenholme,

I largely agree but I do think that some of the current squad do care. KOC as pointed out & I actually think that Heywood, despite the heavy criticism he has received, has acted very professionally in terms of his personal fitness & attitude on the field. Masters' attitude to only drawing in a friendly at B'stoke was surprisingly 'competitive'. I'm not saying that this is true throughout the team, but part of the problem I think is that the squad is just not good enough overall which does affect their attitude as if you continually struggle, or you just cannot compete through lack of strength or skill, life becomes very difficult.

Of the loanees, I believe that Moore is certainly very committed & it was interesting to see Hamer at the Luton game. The point re loanees is a fair one & I think we have been relatively lucky in the players we have brought in in terms of attitude. Whether we have treated some of them well - Cox & Hamer spring to mind - is another story.

 

[Thorne In The Side]

The game has changed NLB and in my judgment for the worse.

I simply do not understand the role of agents these days other than to unsettle players, engineer a move that the player had probably not previously contemplated and line their own pockets.

And you say that you don't understand the role of agents? I think from the above you know their role very very well.

 

[larrysigny]

1967 ......;what about the board. They are the ones that are juggling the purse strings and not giving any financial backing for decent players. Greg Dyke says he's been a bees fan all his life, but he can't be, otherwise with his sort of money he would give some to the club to improve its overall status......Lets get rid of Dyke and co and get a board that want to take this club, our club forward.

Might I suggest Cornish Bee as a new BFC board member - expecting him (in the light of his stated views) to lob in a cool 12-squillion quid to move our club forward?

 

[wayfarer172]

Might I suggest Cornish Bee as a new BFC board member - expecting him (in the light of his stated views) to lob in a cool 12-squillion quid to move our club forward?

Half a million will do

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Half a million will do

With Scott's contacts we can't fail with that amount and maybe Tel should have a look at them first this time.

 

[blunstone]

"You felt that Higgy, Bobby Ross, Jackie Graham, Roger Cross, Peter Gelson and many more really cared about the club and would sweat blood in its defence." i agree 100%.

in those dim and distant days many of the players were with us for a large chunk of their careers - today's players come and go in no time at all.

if they are any good at all they move off to a slightly better club after a season or two - if they are no good we get rid of them anyway.

 

[Idaho Bee]

For all the understandable gloom and doom at our current, long drawn out, death by a thousand cuts, predicament, there is some glimmer of hope in my mind and that is the example being set by many "smaller" clubs who are clearly punching above their weight.

Examples: Southend, Colchester, Wigan, Reading, Watford, Plymouth, Scun thorpe, QPR (just joking), Leyton Orient, Carlisle, Doncaster, Brighton, Yeovil, etc who are doing much better than us. (Please don't bother to point out the one or two in the above list you may personally disagree with, the point is that there are a lot of teams who've traditionally been where we have who are doing very well).

I believe they are doing that much better due to better management at team and board level, and an ability to stay the course with continuous improvement over time.

It can be done, we just need the right mix of people and personalities to make it happen.

 

[letsallgotolourdes]

Groundhog day?

Might I suggest Cornish Bee as a new BFC board member - expecting him (in the light of his stated views) to lob in a cool 12-squillion quid to move our club forward?

It's getting a little boring everytime somebody wants the board out and the tired old cliches emerge, "have you got millions or do you know someone who wants to waste a few" Lets get it straight Brentford is not a supporters run club, it is club run by a few investors who pull the strings with a few ordinary supporters who misguidedly believe this is the only way to save the club. Meanwhile these few investors continue to run the club into the ground, because their ego's will not let them admit they have screwed up time and time again and these same egos tell us, there way is the only way, of course theres no one out there, I bet they've never even looked.

 

[Banana]

It's getting a little boring everytime somebody wants the board out and the tired old cliches emerge, "have you got millions or do you know someone who wants to waste a few" Lets get it straight Brentford is not a supporters run club, it is club run by a few investors who pull the strings with a few ordinary supporters who misguidedly believe this is the only way to save the club. Meanwhile these few investors continue to run the club into the ground, because their ego's will not let them admit they have screwed up time and time again and these same egos tell us, there way is the only way, of course theres no one out there, I bet they've never even looked.

So how many on the board are Brentford supporters and how many are not (in your opinion)?

 

[NorthamptonBee]

So how many on the board are Brentford supporters and how many are not (in your opinion)?

He's wrong about that but the ego bit is correct. The club is being run very badly and yet the decision makers who have shown an ability of only making bad decisions still have the power to make future decisions. We are not a pub team (Mark will regret saying that:sad: ) but we do require the right people in control and anyone that thinks that TB was agood appointment and still receives their backing should be pensioned off and put in the funny farm with their shoelaces removed.

 

[Streetboy]

Wasn't our first rather naive experience of agents at the club when Eric Hall pitched up one Tuesday evening smoking a cigar and telling us that he was here to move Nicky Forster on.

I remember thinking I'd love to 'monster monster' that cigar somewhere the sun didn't shine...

 

[abee]

I remember thinking I'd love to 'monster monster' that cigar somewhere the sun didn't shine...

From what I hear someone beat you to it.

 

[YorkshireBeeAng]

Good Post - Spot on.

And you'll get no loyalty from loanees either.

I disagree, but if all they hear is negativity from their own crowd it must be hard to keep spirits up

 

[Nick Hester]

I disagree, but if all they hear is negativity from their own crowd it must be hard to keep spirits up

Tough..

They are Professional footballers..

Don't keep blaming 'fans' for negativity..

 

[NorthamptonBee]

They are Professional footballers..

Don't keep blaming 'fans' for negativity..

They were professsional hide and seekers at Posh and most were bloody go at it.

 

[sonofabee]

Tough..

They are Professional footballers..

Don't keep blaming 'fans' for negativity..

Have to agree,

If you exclude the loanees, rest are young men all getting WELL PAID although nowhere near the top of their profession for doing a job of work they should love doing.

If the worst is when they have played particularly badly they get booed off, I don't think they've done badly.

Bees fans as a rule are very quick to get behind the team and I believe still looking for a reason to again, it's in their hands.

 

[Gee Bee]

The reason we had so many longer term players back in 1967, wasn't just about loyalty. Some had 4 & 5 year contracts back in those days and many were not very good either.
If we did that now everyone would be jumping up and down with rage.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

It might have been on the unlucky side, but today was the last chance. The board have to act now.

 

[JTofBFC]

The board have to act now.

THE BOARD HAVE TO ACT NOW

Is anybody listening up there for ****s sake.

This club is dying on its feet. Act now or collectively resign.