Should we go into Administration?

[wanderer paul]

After all that has happened over the past 3 years, and with whats been going on the last month as regard administration, what would be the pitfalls with going into administration? I know 10 points would be docked, and possibly MA going, but what else? Would it clear debts in anyway? Or would we lose Griffin Park as a consequence? I'm not a business man/financial whizz kid or understand company laws, but as Wrexham last year went into administration how have they coped with their debts to the chairman and his businesses etc?

Just wondering with all thats going on on the GPG about, administration, should we take control, refurbishment of GP etc.

Any thoughts in laymans terms?

 

[beesbeesbarmyarmy]

We should first try and get our house in order ourselves before asking the administrators to do it for us. Including a suspension of comps for friends of directors as well as the directors themselves.

We could also try and keep to the original playing budget, survival is more important than promotion.

Just a couple of ideas to be going on with.

 

[rebus]

After all that has happened over the past 3 years, and with whats been going on the last month as regard administration, what would be the pitfalls with going into administration? I know 10 points would be docked, and possibly MA going, but what else? Would it clear debts in anyway? Or would we lose Griffin Park as a consequence? I'm not a business man/financial whizz kid or understand company laws, but as Wrexham last year went into administration how have they coped with their debts to the chairman and his businesses etc?

Just wondering with all thats going on on the GPG about, administration, should we take control, refurbishment of GP etc.

Any thoughts in laymans terms?

Administration is ten points deducted and with it the hopes of us getting promotion.

We need cash, not administrators, although the nice and tidy employment contracts enjoyed by Roy King et al would be legally torn up and consigned to the dustbin...

 

[Gee Bee]

We would almost certainly be forced to sell the ground pretty pronto and this would clear most large secured creditors fully. Unlike most other clubs that have gone into administration the ground is owned by the club and its only real asset. So imho we should avoid administration for as long as possible.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

We should first try and get our house in order ourselves before asking the administrators to do it for us. Including a suspension of comps for friends of directors as well as the directors themselves.

We could also try and keep to the original playing budget, survival is more important than promotion.

In Bees United, if not BFC, there are the people who can sort this out, if it can be sorted out.

Going into administration is surely grounds for dismissal of Finch and/or Callen (getting rid of Finch should be easy considering he is on probation) and MA should be told he needs to cut the playing budget as best he can, as quickly as he can without putting too much pressure on our remaining players.

It seems to me (and I'm not an expert) that administration would be a big problem. I would imagine promotion this year is a must (or we go bust) so we can't afford to lose ten points and surely an administrator would just sell Griffin Park, leaving us with no route back.

 

[Simon C]

I would imagine promotion this year is a must (or we go bust)

Or we employed a manager who was too ambitious for the financial situation the club found themselves in (and who the board were too scared to say no to). I imagine John Mac was happy with WD becuase of his acceptance of a low wage budget.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Or we employed a manager who was too ambitious for the financial situation the club found themselves in (and who the board were too scared to say no to). I imagine John Mac was happy with WD becuase of his acceptance of a low wage budget.

I don't disagree, but that is in the past now. We are pretty much stuck with the wage bill we have, although I'm sure it can be trimmed.

We HAVE to get promotion or I don't see where we go

 

[jmcp]

I always thought from attending a few of the Bees United meetings that administration wasnt an option for Brentford because where as most clubs owe there money to various different parties our debts are soley with the bank. Dont know if someone who knows more about it could explain?

 

[Simon C]

I don't disagree, but that is in the past now. We are pretty much stuck with the wage bill we have, although I'm sure it can be trimmed.

Not sure it can be trimmed without losing a first teamer. It certainly doesn't need to be added to.

 

[wanderer paul]

This is the problem, a catch 22 situation, do BFC give MA what he needs to get us out or do BFC make cut backs now because if BFC don't the summer could be long and hard. Promotion IS VITAL, i agree, but if BFC/BU can't find a benefactor/supporter with a big bank account, BU will just be left with loans to pay in 1/2/3/4 years time, so there'll be bigger buckets at home games! It'll put so much strain on resources that i can see survival and cutting back will be better than administration or unfortunately promotion. What would you have: a club to support in whatever league we're in or no club at all and slumming it down at QPR (No No No Never QPR what must i have been thinking! Maybe Hampton, they're on the up!)

 

[wanderer paul]

I always thought from attending a few of the Bees United meetings that administration wasnt an option for Brentford because where as most clubs owe there money to various different parties our debts are soley with the bank. Dont know if someone who knows more about it could explain?

I think i can remember a thread a little while ago with who is owed what. There must be loads of creditors now with all these loan notes and loans from directors etc. It'll be great if some GPGer could maybe list our creditors with how much they're due if the 'sh*t does hit the Fan'.

 

[Gee Bee]

I think i can remember a thread a little while ago with who is owed what. There must be loads of creditors now with all these loan notes and loans from directors etc. It'll be great if some GPGer could maybe list our creditors with how much they're due if the 'sh*t does hit the Fan'.

It was listed at the last BU forum who they are.

From memory secured creditors are Barclays, Altonwood, Rogers & Herting.
The largest non secured creditor is BU.

I'm sure the BIAS forum next week will fully explain.

 

[JANORAK]

BFC is in a stronger position with the Bank than might be at 1st thought...Barclays have security & have taken steps to see repayment (over a period!). They would not rock the boat themselves as they worry too much about adverse publicity in these cases.
That's not to say that Barc. wouldn't join the party if others forced the issue, but they're unlikely to lead.... Everything else should be worried about though.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Not sure it can be trimmed without losing a first teamer. It certainly doesn't need to be added to.

In that case we lose a first teamer.

If we couldn't afford them in the first place why are they here?

 

[West Ealing Bee]

This is the problem, a catch 22 situation, do BFC give MA what he needs to get us out or do BFC make cut backs now because if BFC don't the summer could be long and hard. Promotion IS VITAL, i agree, but if BFC/BU can't find a benefactor/supporter with a big bank account, BU will just be left with loans to pay in 1/2/3/4 years time, so there'll be bigger buckets at home games! It'll put so much strain on resources that i can see survival and cutting back will be better than administration or unfortunately promotion. What would you have: a club to support in whatever league we're in or no club at all and slumming it down at QPR (No No No Never QPR what must i have been thinking! Maybe Hampton, they're on the up!)

Surely Brentford supporters wouldn't gamble the future of the club in the hands of its (albeit very good) manager and his players.

We can't afford the players we have, that is not a gamble, it's suicide.

 

[Russell]

We HAVE to get promotion or I don't see where we go

I'm not sure about this WEB. Can the club afford promotion if it gets it? I reckon we need a 3 fecking good cup runs...

 

[Snappy]

Can the club afford promotion if it gets it?

I've never really understood this.

Getting promoted doesn't mean that the club have to spend big to bring in new players in a bid to stay up. The squad that has got the club promoted should be capable of holding their own to a certain extent, and so should only require just a few additions, especially at a club like ours where a close-knit group of players is such a vital ingredient to our success.

Obviously every fan wants their club to succeed, but I'd rather get promoted, spend no extra money in boosting the squad thus using the additional income to reduce the debt and subsequently end up finishing bottom on the Championship, than stay down in League One for another season having another relatively successful campaign.

At the end of the day, the quicker we pay off the debt, the sooner we can move on, and the money is in the Championship.

 

[Russell]

I've never really understood this.

We can't afford what we've got now but for achieving promotion consider the following:

Bonuses to players

Bonuses to coaching staff

Pay increases to both of the above (some of which will be contractual)

More stringent crowd control and possible reduction in ground capacity

Higher policing and stewarding costs

No LDV cup run money

That's without thinking about it!!

The key then is what would the real break-even figure? By break even I include interest payable to all creditors to which it is due; Accruing £333,333 for the next 3 years to pay off Altonwood's £1m loan...

Ok I'm stopping now or I'll take a fecking overdose...

 

[Snappy]

We can't afford what we've got now but for achieving promotion consider the following:

Bonuses to players

Bonuses to coaching staff

Pay increases to both of the above (some of which will be contractual)

More stringent crowd control and possible reduction in ground capacity

Higher policing and stewarding costs

No LDV cup run money

That's without thinking about it!!

The key then is what would the real break-even figure? By break even I include interest payable to all creditors to which it is due; Accruing £333,333 for the next 3 years to pay off Altonwood's £1m loan...

Ok I'm stopping now or I'll take a fecking overdose...

Think of all the money from the car park though with bigger attendances! Surely that would clear the debt on it's own

Seriously though, I would have thought that with vastly increased TV money, 50%+ (at a guess) increase in attendances coupled with increased ticket prices etc. more than covering all of the above, we would still come out better financially by getting promoted than by staying in League One.

 

[Banana]

You have forgotten

No Round 1 FA Cup money
No Round 2 FA Cup money

As I believe someone with a directorship at the club once said: Relegation would earn us more money

lol

 

[Snappy]

You have forgotten

No Round 1 FA Cup money
No Round 2 FA Cup money

Ok, I'm thinking that would be at the most about £80k if you are to assume that we win both rounds (£16k + £24k) and either get drawn at home for both games or away to teams of similar standing.

Not to be sniffed at admittedly, but again I think it would be covered by other income. Who's to say we wouldn't get knocked out away to a non-league team in the 1st round whilst in League One, as opposed to possibly getting drawn away to Man Utd going straight into the 3rd round whilst in the Championship?

 

[Stanley]

, but as Wrexham last year went into administration how have they coped with their debts to the chairman and his businesses etc? QUOTE]

It seems to me that most clubs that go into administration seem to struggle for years rather than make a new start. Bradford, Bristol City, Ra ra's, Leicester and MK Dons to name but a few don't exactly seem like Phoenix' rising from ashes as it were.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I'm not sure about this WEB. Can the club afford promotion if it gets it? I reckon we need a 3 fecking good cup runs...

I see the arguement which you have outlined but I think the money that comes in would surely outweigh this.

Our average attendence in the Championship would be around 8,000 I would guess, when you consider the away attendances. TV revenue would be massivly increased and you get more live games, which produce income in their own right.

It would cost us now but the success this season should enable us to pay those bonuses with extra gate money, merchandising and season tickets for next year.

If we do well but don't get up then most of those costs still have to be met with no 'pot of gold' for next season.

Which would be the death of the club IMHO

 

[wanderer paul]

From reading the above, if promotion is achieved, a bulk of the money would be redirected to the players etc, BUT it would be interesting to know whos contracts are up come June 2006.
From what i understand, MA has contract till end of season 2006-07 but didn't MA stop AW and backroom staff from signing new contracts due to the cock ups that went on last year.
Also, if 50% of the squad have contracts only to june 2006 then they'd want a higher pay structure to reflect the league they'd be playing in. Therefore, the amount of increased revenue would be spent on new players or new contracts or bonuses to current players.
Wasn't there an FA or FL rule that only so much of the clubs income could be spent on players wages for the Championship/League 1/League 2 . About 60% or something. Income would be greater but outgoings would also increase.
BUT the debt could be paid, then it'll be 'we must stay up to survive or if BFC are relegated then the club disappears'
This is getting worse by the minute.

 

[Luton Bee]

Including a suspension of comps for friends of directors as well as the directors themselves.

The next voice you hear will that of the fatcd (assuming a certain BFC "director" can write the words for him, of course)

 

[Brickie Chap]

Well its unlikely to be yours with anything sensible

 

[Luton Bee]

3 Mins to defend Doug and his cronies BC, you must be getting old!

 

[Brickie Chap]

I dont think its funny. I actually think you're a sad f**k who hides behind his pc and would never have the b***ocks to say anything to the fatcd to his face.

Maybe you'll prove me wrong, although I wont hold my breath zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[B2B]

an easy way to resolve this spat would be for Mr Luton to meet the fatcd and discuss mano-o-mano....perhaps?

 

[Hamburger Hill]

The next voice you hear will that of the fatcd (assuming a certain BFC "director" can write the words for him, of course)

A cheap shot I'm afraid Mr Luton Bee and one which does you absolutely no credit whatsoever

Perhaps you could ask him yourself next time you see him?