Successful first-timers

[cliffbee]

For those keen on a Keith Andrews appointment, or anyone else for that matter, I have a genuine question. In the history of the PL, has a manager ever been appointed and gone on to be successful who has never been a head coach at any level? Been thinking about this on and off since yesterday and I can't think of one.

 

[EastBilneyBee]

For those keen on a Keith Andrews appointment, or anyone else for that matter, I have a genuine question. In the history of the PL, has a manager ever been appointed and gone on to be successful who has never been a head coach at any level? Been thinking about this on and off since yesterday and I can't think of one.

The 'Boot Room' team at Liverpool, Paisley, Evans etc?

Or were they before football was invented?

 

[cliffbee]

The 'Boot Room' team at Liverpool, Paisley, Evans etc?

Or were they before football was invented?

Before the Premier League, so not relevant to my question.

 

[Gee Bee]

Eh? I said people who'd been given their first head coach job in PL who'd never run a club anywhere at any level before. You've just quoted me two managers who'd won the Champions League before being appointed in the PL.

It’s not likely they’ll be any, had Gary O’Neil been head anywhere before his first PL job? Think he was a coach only

 

[Gee Bee]

Before the Premier League, so not relevant to my question.

Just checked Gary O’Neil was assistant to Woodgate at Bournemouth then got the main gig

 

[Gee Bee]

Ruud Gullit?

Zola too at West Ham?

 

[AB]

Just checked Gary O’Neil was assistant to Woodgate at Bournemouth then got the main gig

Everyone has to start somewhere. The numbers who work their way up from lower league manager to PL other than by becoming a PL manager through taking their club up are relatively small and my impression is most of the first time PL managers who’ve come from European clubs were themselves first time managers at top division clubs or took a club up to that division.

Managing a L1-2 club is these days likely to be very different from being Head Coach of a PL club, both in involving lots of things not in scope of the PL role and missing out on most of the working with a large team of analysts and specialist coaches. The latter is something which would make being head coach at a Bundesliga/ligue un etc club more like being one in the PL than doing the job at L1 or even in many Championship clubs.

 

[aslan]

Arteta has improved Arsenal, not won trophies mind

 

['Ayes B]

Kenny Dalglish was a player manager

 

[Pixelator]

Solksjaer? I mean, relative to his successors to date.
But there's difference between a player going straight into head coach / manager role, and an experienced coach stepping up.

 

[BaildonBee]

Gareth Southgate at Middlesbrough

 

[rebus]

Before the Premier League, so not relevant to my question.

?

 

[AB]

Before the Premier League, so not relevant to my question.

This is a fair point because the role is very different now to how it was 30+ years ago. It doesn’t lessen the achievements of those before or mean that it was more or less demanding a job.

 

[Gee Bee]

Solksjaer? I mean, relative to his successors to date.
But there's difference between a player going straight into head coach / manager role, and an experienced coach stepping up.

He’d failed at Cardiff before United job

 

[The Pipe]

Would be slightly different in this case if it were KA as he has already fully absorbed how the club operate and, seemingly, has impressed the powers that be.

Not as “ sexy” as a foreign coach but safe hands and not without experience in football, not arguing for or against just wouldn’t dismiss out of hand

 

[Brigadier Gerard]

Rubén Sellés and Simon Rusk at Southampton?

Took over in season after Jones/Juric were sacked. Although both took Southampton down, it wasn’t their fault, and fans still rate them. Very good coaches apparentl.

 

[BS7Bee]

Gareth Southgate at Middlesbrough

Good shout.

 

[savvy 2210]

This is a fair point because the role is very different now to how it was 30+ years ago. It doesn’t lessen the achievements of those before or mean that it was more or less demanding a job.

All the 1st division champions, FA cup winners etc before the Premier league started don't count anymore.

 

[AB]

All the 1st division champions, FA cup winners etc before the Premier league started don't count anymore.

They completely count. The things needed to be a successful player or manager in those teams are just different to what they are now. Our current team would completely destroy and bamboozle our great team of the late 30s. No shade on the past, it’s just different.

In another sporting context, everyone laughs about Eric the Eel swimming in the Olympics in 2000. By the time he retired his personal best was fast enough that it would have won him a medal in the 1956 Olympics. That someone so far off having the highest natural talent or the best of training could in the space of barely 50 years be as good as the very best in the world points to the huge changes in that much simpler sport.

Football has changed even more.