Team vs Derby

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

Has he the physical strength needed to hold the ball up? I just haven't seen that in his game and it is vital to ours!

He doesn't look like he'll be the strongest....but I've definitely seen him hold off an attacker more than once with his back to goal and set someone free to score with a flick behind (did it nicely to set up Canos in pre-season who then fluffed the chance). So I don't think he's totally incapable of doing it. Vibe played up top for a considerable number of games and I'd say he's no weaker than him.
I can see why we might like a strong hold up player but I'm not sure it's vital (although it probably helps more in this negative formation with less midfielders than when we played 4 at the back).
I think our biggest problem is we've been weak in the middle and Marcondes is actually covering huge amounts of ground, dropping deep to try to provide some movement, whilst we also need to get Rico further forward, as he's often still playing more like a full-back than a wing-back.

 

[magicbees]

Has he the physical strength needed to hold the ball up? I just haven't seen that in his game and it is vital to ours!

Hopefully that is what the new striker will bring. Watkins isnt the answer in the number 9 role and I would like to see what Forss can offer in a more natural role for him.

 

[IslandBee]

Hopefully that is what the new striker will bring. Watkins isnt the answer in the number 9 role and I would like to see what Forss can offer in a more natural role for him.

I am pinning my hopes more on the new striker than Forss to be honest, and that is without ever seeing the former play! Interesting point on Vibe, but actually it was his weakness in holding the ball up which used to frustrate a lot of the time. He managed to get away with it (just) because he had lots of know-how and his movement (particularly in the box) was excellent. The former is definitely not the case for Forss but perhaps he is stronger on the latter. His goal-scoring record in the B team would suggest so.

 

[maddogging]

I was tempted but we’re at home and I want to give Emiliano a fair go in a position that suits him and the team. He is running out of empathy though and has to stop the diving

I’d go with this, really hope we go 4-3-3, sometimes you just need a change of formation to change your luck

 

[Hakonen_72]

Marcondes isn't playing central striker, Watkins is. If I wanted to replace Marcondes, I would go for Said or Mbuemo. So we differ over what the issue is: I think it is whether Forss is currently a better option than Watkins as a central striker. I don't, and my guess is that TF doesn't either, which is why it hasn't happened. I wouldn't have a problem with us trying it at some point, if we get desperate, but I would not expect it to work.

Good point with Watking over Forss. Actually thought that we were talking about overall formation too, and as many have suggested in several threads that Watkins should be playing wide, my idea was actually that if Marcondes was replaced, Watkins would play wide and Forss as striker. My bad, and does not really matter as we all have our opinions anyway.

 

[WisBee]

.......on the basis that TF has said that they've been trying various systems in training, I think the line up will/should be 4-3-3,

Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Norgaard/DaSilva Jensen Mokotjo
Watkins Mbeumo Benrahma

Substitutes
Daniels
Jeanvier
Canos
Racic
Karelis
DaSilva/Norgaard
Marcondes

I worry that Norgaard can't manage a full 90, and given that he has also been struggling to make an impression, I think it's a toss-up between him and Josh for who gets the nod..............

 

[beebopalula]

I don't think he will change much in the starting eleven.We need to get more cohesion as a unit and too many changes won't help. One change might be Mokotjo or Da Silva for Norgaard.Not sure if Jeanvier was dropped or injured last week. If fit he comes in for Racic. Subs will be interesting.

 

[Pauly Paul]

Thinking about how Wolves transitioned midfielder Conor Coady in to the middle of their back three, would it be worth trying Norgaard there so we have someone in defence comfortable bringing the ball out into midfield?

Raya

Pontus Norgaard Pinnock

Dalsgaard Mokotjo Jensen Henry

Mbuemo Watkins Benrahma

 

[nick logan]

Thinking about how Wolves transitioned midfielder Conor Coady in to the middle of their back three, would it be worth trying Norgaard there so we have someone in defence comfortable bringing the ball out into midfield?

Raya

Pontus Norgaard Pinnock

Dalsgaard Mokotjo Jensen Henry

Mbuemo Watkins Benrahma

Pinnock , Pontus , Jeanvier and Racic are all comfortable at doing that

 

[lanzabee]

Raya
Racic Pontus Pinnock
Rico Norgard Jensen Henrick
Benhrama Watkins Mbeumo

 

[mhead bee]

Think changes needed here

Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Mokotjo Jansen
Benrahma Watkins Mbeumo
Forss

Subs
Daniels
Jeanvier
Clarke
Norgaard
DaSilva
Canos
Nikos

I would like to see that, but we won’t.

Here we go, it’s 8 am here in the US, horrid hangover after 4 days on it. Flight at 5pm, arrive Gatwick at 11am, need to get to Maidenhead to pick my son up and then to GP, gonna be proper tight. I am going to be broken, Brentford better make it worth it.

 

[mhead bee]

Pinnock , Pontus , Jeanvier and Racic are all comfortable at doing that

And they are CB’s, why on earth would we put a midfielder there who has never played there and is still trying to adjust to his best position in a new team anyway?

There is some serious silliness on here sometimes.

 

[AB]

Thinking about how Wolves transitioned midfielder Conor Coady in to the middle of their back three, would it be worth trying Norgaard there so we have someone in defence comfortable bringing the ball out into midfield?

Raya

Pontus Norgaard Pinnock

Dalsgaard Mokotjo Jensen Henry

Mbuemo Watkins Benrahma

Having spent c£8m on two experienced new centre backs why would we want to spend time converting another expensively acquired CDM to that position when he hasn't had enough time to establish himself in the position we bought him to fill?

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

Having spent c£8m on two experienced new centre backs why would we want to spend time converting another expensively acquired CDM to that position when he hasn't had enough time to establish himself in the position we bought him to fill?

Perhaps it was a safer way, on here, of suggesting the same team in a 4-3-3, with everyone in their natural positions

 

[nick logan]

I would like to see that, but we won’t.

Here we go, it’s 8 am here in the US, horrid hangover after 4 days on it. Flight at 5pm, arrive Gatwick at 11am, need to get to Maidenhead to pick my son up and then to GP, gonna be proper tight. I am going to be broken, Brentford better make it worth it.

Its always worth it , great effort fella

COYR

 

[ruislip bee]

Its always worth it , great effort fella

COYR

He's miserable at the best of times. Best stay clear on Saturday!

 

[North London Bee]

Funnily enough I was thinking of a 4123 formation with Norgaard sweeping up in front of the back four. Kamo box to box with Jensen infrony and then the front three of Said, Watkins and Forss.

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

Funnily enough I was thinking of a 4123 formation with Norgaard sweeping up in front of the back four. Kamo box to box with Jensen infrony and then the front three of Said, Watkins and Forss.

Where have I heard that suggested before rofl

 

[AB]

Perhaps it was a safer way, on here, of suggesting the same team in a 4-3-3, with everyone in their natural positions

Very cunning.

 

[sonofabee]

I would like to see that, but we won’t.

Here we go, it’s 8 am here in the US, horrid hangover after 4 days on it. Flight at 5pm, arrive Gatwick at 11am, need to get to Maidenhead to pick my son up and then to GP, gonna be proper tight. I am going to be broken, Brentford better make it worth it.

Plenty of scope for you to be moaning about something tomorrow Victor Meldrew. lol lol

 

[mhead bee]

He's miserable at the best of times. Best stay clear on Saturday!

I am at the airport and everyone is beginning to get on my nerves already, I was surrounded by a group of travellers on the way out. Completely sh*tfaced and swearing the whole way, it was like my big fat gypsy wedding. I really hope they are not on today’s flight as I need a kip.

 

[claphambee]

https://www.facebook.com/68186868021/posts/10156703212903022?sfns=mo

The club posted the video of when we thrashed then 4-0 in 2017. What a game that was.

What occurred to me watching it was the passage of play from 00:45 seconds in. It feels to be exactly the kind of quick transition from defence to attack that we are missing. Sawyers fading backwards, squares to Barbet who plays one threaded ball to Nico, who’s first touch is exquisite - taking him into attack. Squares to Vibe who, without looking knows Henry is bombing on at the byline, and we almost score.

That’s the quick movement between the lines that were so missing. It’s just a little slow at times with us. This is not a negative post-I know we will gel and ta early days, but thought it was interesting to post that clip as an example of what I don’t feel is happening yet, ie that fast movement between players passing and moving round etc other. That will come with more understanding.

I would agree though, we get more numbers to play this way if we go 4 at the back again...

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

https://www.facebook.com/68186868021/posts/10156703212903022?sfns=mo

The club posted the video of when we thrashed then 4-0 in 2017. What a game that was.

What occurred to me watching it was the passage of play from 00:45 seconds in. It feels to be exactly the kind of quick transition from defence to attack that we are missing. Sawyers fading backwards, squares to Barbet who plays one threaded ball to Nico, who’s first touch is exquisite - taking him into attack. Squares to Vibe who, without looking knows Henry is bombing on at the byline, and we almost score.

That’s the quick movement between the lines that were so missing. It’s just a little slow at times with us. This is not a negative post-I know we will gel and ta early days, but thought it was interesting to post that clip as an example of what I don’t feel is happening yet, ie that fast movement between players passing and moving round etc other. That will come with more understanding.

I would agree though, we get more numbers to play this way if we go 4 at the back again...

In the part of the clip you mention, look how high up the field we are, I think Dean's hobbling back from the right corner, and it only needs the remaining CB Barbet to find a pass.
The 4 at the back gives us more options in midfield (and would help) but also key is Nico's movement/workrate/turn. That's the biggest factor that makes that move happen and happen fast. The only player we have who's similar is Kamo and we miss him. The three in the middle just facilitates playing a holding player (Norgaard/Woods), a crucial one like Kamo/Nico, and a creative one like Jensen/Sawyers.

 

[WisBee]

Thinking about how Wolves transitioned midfielder Conor Coady in to the middle of their back three, would it be worth trying Norgaard there so we have someone in defence comfortable bringing the ball out into midfield?

Raya

Pontus Norgaard Pinnock

Dalsgaard Mokotjo Jensen Henry

Mbuemo Watkins Benrahma

Perhaps it was a safer way, on here, of suggesting the same team in a 4-3-3, with everyone in their natural positions

.....what, like this suggestion?......:shrug:

.......on the basis that TF has said that they've been trying various systems in training, I think the line up will/should be 4-3-3,

Raya
Dalsgaard Jansson Pinnock Henry
Norgaard/DaSilva Jensen Mokotjo
Watkins Mbeumo Benrahma

Substitutes
Daniels
Jeanvier
Canos
Racic
Karelis
DaSilva/Norgaard
Marcondes

I worry that Norgaard can't manage a full 90, and given that he has also been struggling to make an impression, I think it's a toss-up between him and Josh for who gets the nod..............

 

[Pauly Paul]

Having spent c£8m on two experienced new centre backs why would we want to spend time converting another expensively acquired CDM to that position when he hasn't had enough time to establish himself in the position we bought him to fill?

Because we can't pass out of defence like we have been doing in previous years? We've gained defensive security but now lack that player who can step into midfield and pass accurately,

Caveat: I'd prefer a 4-3-3 with Jansonn + Pinnock/Jeanvier but if we play 3-4-3 then we need one of the defensive 3 to be as comfortable on the ball as a midfielder would be. That could be Racic I suppose.