The Next Step???

[West Wilts Bee]

I think a good next step for Bees United would be some sort of statement to the fans to show they have some leadership qualities.

The club has no leadership on the pitch with O'Connor probably the lamest captain any club has ever had and I can't be the only one wondering what Fitzgerald is playing at by not taking the armband off him.

But do we have any leadership off the pitch.

Now certain relegation has been the end result of two of the worst management appointments that have ever happened at this club.

Bees United, as owner of this club is supposed to be a supporters trust representing its membership who are the fans of this club who deserve some answers.

I want to hear what the plans are for next year.

Are we budgeting for success or failure for example.

If BU doesn't have the answers and merely continues to bicker amongst its self then maybe we have the wrong people leading the club.

It's not just BU's fault JT. Many of the people that post on here got what they wanted. The inevitable happened. They got what they wanted. but it never went the way they envisaged. Hence as a football club we've slipped back ten years. For me the most important thing is results on the pitch. otherwise it's pointless. However, what the **** do I know? I've been reliably informed that we're losing north of ten grand a week .So that backfires as well.
The sad thing for me is that next season could well be my last. I can't justify the distance to see non-league football. Unfortunately there will be a load like me.

 

[King Bee]

Play some of the youth team from now on.. Leave Kuffour out of the side as he apparently has already sorted himself out with another club.. let all the loanees go back thus trying to save a bit of money that we didn't have in the first place. Make your mind up if we are going to keep Abbey (I hope we do) because if not, start playing Nelson again..Abbey's wages are apparently on 'appearances only' (harsh but realistic if we have no intention of keeping him).. Make a big decision in getting a new mananger in, I want to like Fitz but his body language and arms folded mute mode on a Saturday wouldn't motivate anyone imho..

Tell Dyke to sling his hook and put someone like Peter Gilham in the Chair at least for the interim.

Ask all the Board members including the MD to stand up and be counted, they ALL should be scrutinised as to what each and everyone of them have achieved this season.

Greenholme, I can understand your gripe with Dyke to some extent since he is the ultimate head of the board but removing him will change nothing, absolutely nothing. Dare I say it, the whole board needs to reconsider their roles post relegation. We need people that understand what it means to work on the breadline - sadly Messrs Bourke, Burgess, Dickens, Herting and Rogers are not that team. They've proven that in the way they have run this business (into the ground) over the last few years, nothwithstanding the mess they found themselves in when they inherited the business from Noades. However it is my opinion that the mistakes they've made since then have done irreversible damage to the club I love and quite frankly I personally would want shot of all of them. Otherwise all I can see is us going round in circles again - hapless managers, broken promises and complete and utter mismanagement.

 

[from leeds to bees]

Send the loan players back. Put players in who want to play for the club.
Ide and Abbey and, for ten minutes, Lloyd seemed to me to be the only ones who cared yesterday. We need to pull this around before the Division Two basement appears.

 

[golferbee]

We need to sort things out from the top down.

Until certain people and certain groups start to run the club in a correct manner things won't change.


Someone MUST take charge of the situation.


They MUST take charge of the club in ALL areas and not have different boards to make decisions etc etc,

BFC, BU and all other "boards" related to Brentford HAVE TO UNITE and fight for the survival of the entire club.

 

[walterbee]

(Quote) If he, Fitz, is prepared to stand by BFC if relegation actually happens, then that is good enough for me.

He didn't stand by Brentford. We promoted him and gave him a chance of being a football league manager. He probably wouldn't get that at any other club. It was a no lose situation for Fitz. He probably got a larger wage and the chance to make a name for himself as a manager. If we stayed up he will be classed as a saviour and attract attention from other clubs, but if we go down (as we are) he can return to being youth team manager. It works out well for him whatever the situation. Personally I think he doesn't motivate the team, pick the correct team or have any tactical knowledge whatsoever. After all we got the runaround by Rotherham United who lost 5 - 1 at home the week before and are also bottom of the league. That says it all for me. I agree we weren't great under Leroy but he tried to play football which Fitz doesn't. Attack is the best form of defence and we seem scared to batter their goal yesterday. We should be all out attack given our situation, but we are comfortably losing at the moment.

 

[Westlad]

To all those people saying Fitz out:

Are you joking? Ok he's not the best manager in the world but who better is there who would come to a club sliding down the football league with no money?

Let's get real

 

[VTG]

On the pitch, I think we need to stick JK and LO up front, get Shipperly and stick him in one of the two central midfield roles supported by JM because Ship can't do the running but his distribution 4 times out of 5 is really good, give him the captain's armband coz he's the only one who actually talks, take his pies away and tell him he's only playing for 45 minutes so to run his guts out, then bring on Ide at half time for fresh attacking legs and give JM the armband for the 2nd half. Also give the whole defence armbands of a different sort, because they're drowning, not waving.

Off the pitch, keep Fitz on in lieu of another manager actually wanting to have a go at getting us up next season, ask Dyke again if he's going to put any money in in the closed season, if he still says no, **** him off and put PG in that seat because he's the big face of Brentford FC who seems to really give a sh*t about the club and if you cut him in half he's red and white stripes right the way through. Just like us, if he didn't care, he'd have left years ago.

I still don't understand the campaign against Fitz. As someone already alluded to on here, it's like giving an F1 driver a Reliant Robin because that's what the last bloke liked. Given the summer break and a ditch-fest, I think he can pull in some good young blood and get us back up to League 1. He's been lumbered with some utterly useless players, had to make some signings in very short order and got what he could which apart from Abbey simply wasn't good enough. That's not his fault, the market simply wasn't there. I saw him on the touchline yesterday and he seems to give more of a sh*t about this club than certain people higher up.

 

[KD]

Fitz is learning his trade. We are patient with our promising youth team players that have to make the step up, we need to offer the same patience to a Youth Team manager who is making the step up. I would rather stick with him until this Christmas than go through another recruitment process, we need some stability in this post. Whilst his record is poor so far, there are enough signs that he could make a fist of it. Yesterday was a nightmare but at least he is as critical as we are of the performance.

 

[tommo]

Exactly all that time spent trying to find a new manager and we ended up with fitz, whos going to want to come to us now in League 2, with probably a worse transfer budget than before.

We've got no players who are worth keeping, or who will be staying, so we are left with no team, and not a lot of money, who knows how we are going to put together a half decent team for next season.

Just makes you think where would we be if we gave MA that bit more money last season... instead we have wasted it on new managers and crap players.

 

[Stuardo]

All loan players and short term contract players except Abbey should be told to feck off.

The following should be told they will not put on the shirt again and BFC are transfer listing them and would welcome their views on coming to a mutually agreeable deal to feck off:
Frampton
O`Connor
Heywood
Owusu
Brooker
Tillen
Keith
Pillock
Griffiths
Nelson

Captaincy given to Mousinho - at least he behaves like a leader on the pitch, if even his passing ability is piss poor.

Kids play to the end of the season.

We need to say to Fitz that it hasn`t worked and you will be offered the youth job for next season.

We cannot afford a coach we need a player coach.

BFC needs to look at no contracts longer than a year unless it is a exciting youngster or a player who will can get a decent fee for. Basically no three year, two year deals unless the player is a Tabb or Ide.

blimey things must be dire when i can easily agree with everything that Ace Face says!

this is totally right. we are down and gone.and Tillen can start by explaining on what basis the players believed they could get out of this position - because they don't show it yesterday.

to quote abee badly "the people that get you in the sh*t aren't generally the ones that are gonna get you out of it"

O'Connor has been a piss poor captain - he didn't even dare look at the Brook Road as he walked off yesterday. At least he didn't bother clapping us - as some of the others did and were told what they could do with their clapping!

I wonder what the person that our manager selection committee actually chose to be our manager might have done to our season? Could Dickens answer this question please??

 

[Edmundo]

Just makes you think where would we be if we gave MA that bit more money last season... instead we have wasted it on new managers and crap players.

If we'd given Allen the playing budget he asked for, he would have had to find another excuse for going through with the decision he had already made to leave. But I am sure he would have found one.

 

[Stuardo]

If we'd given Allen the playing budget he asked for, he would have had to find another excuse for going through with the decision he had already made to leave. But I am sure he would have found one.

and don't forget that he spoke to about 3 clubs during his team with us - and didn't bother telling us fans ("I deal in facts") for a month that he had resigned!

 

[Jakalo]

On the pitch, I think we need to stick JK and LO up front, get Shipperly and stick him in one of the two central midfield roles supported by JM because Ship can't do the running but his distribution 4 times out of 5 is really good, give him the captain's armband coz he's the only one who actually talks, take his pies away and tell him he's only playing for 45 minutes so to run his guts out, then bring on Ide at half time for fresh attacking legs and give JM the armband for the 2nd half. Also give the whole defence armbands of a different sort, because they're drowning, not waving.

Off the pitch, keep Fitz on in lieu of another manager actually wanting to have a go at getting us up next season, ask Dyke again if he's going to put any money in in the closed season, if he still says no, **** him off and put PG in that seat because he's the big face of Brentford FC who seems to really give a sh*t about the club and if you cut him in half he's red and white stripes right the way through. Just like us, if he didn't care, he'd have left years ago.

I still don't understand the campaign against Fitz. As someone already alluded to on here, it's like giving an F1 driver a Reliant Robin because that's what the last bloke liked. Given the summer break and a ditch-fest, I think he can pull in some good young blood and get us back up to League 1. He's been lumbered with some utterly useless players, had to make some signings in very short order and got what he could which apart from Abbey simply wasn't good enough. That's not his fault, the market simply wasn't there. I saw him on the touchline yesterday and he seems to give more of a sh*t about this club than certain people higher up.

rofl rofl rofl rofl

Oh dear.

 

[VTG]

rofl rofl rofl rofl

Oh dear.

Heh, desperate times, etc. I don't see anyone else on that pitch capable of making a back to win free kicks in good areas, shouting and geeing up the team, distributing the ball and picking them up even a tiny bit when heads go down, which is all part of a captain's role! It certainly ain't a certain Mr O'Connor! Now that we have our Ghanaian strike force back in action, we need someone in midfield who can distribute the ball instead of the good old defensive hoof that we've been relying on for ages. He's the only one there who can pass the bloody thing!

 

[abee]

I still don't understand the campaign against Fitz. As someone already alluded to on here, it's like giving an F1 driver a Reliant Robin because that's what the last bloke liked. Given the summer break and a ditch-fest, I think he can pull in some good young blood and get us back up to League 1. He's been lumbered with some utterly useless players, had to make some signings in very short order and got what he could which apart from Abbey simply wasn't good enough. That's not his fault, the market simply wasn't there. I saw him on the touchline yesterday and he seems to give more of a sh*t about this club than certain people higher up.

Fitz was well aware of the playing resources available to him and what monies would be on the table during the transfer window. That pot was further enhanced by some £40k from the Fighting Chance fund which has been totally pissed away. He was absolutely confident that with the squad he inherited and the players whom he planned to bring in then the club would not be relegated. That was his brief....save us from relegation.......he accepted it, said that he could do it and was given the job on that basis. He has failed. We can argue 'til the cows come home on the reasons why but the fact remains that given his brief and his assurances to the BFC board that he could get us out of the mess created I submit almost entirely by the appointment of Rosenior (which was ferociously opposed at the time by a minority of the BFC board) then he is a failure. If you want to argue that it was not Fitz's mess then of course it wasn't but it became his mess the day he took the job. He is probably the nicest bloke in the world for all I know (I've never met him) but his dismal stint should not bring the reward of "well let's give him a few months next season". Football is a ruthless business and results driven both on and off the field. That takes care of Fitz. He's a busted flush and if I were chairman of the BFC board I would have been hitting the phones today and Fitz would be gone by noon tomorrow. Off the field I have no knowledge of the targets laid down for Keith Dickens but if he has hit many of them then all I can say is that the bar was set too low. His job has to be on the line. We have failed dismally to bring in more sponsorship monies....the windfall income from probably the final sale of the family silver (Tabb, Sodje, Turner) has been pissed away by the present executive and the BFC board fronting for an equally dismal holding company board.

Too much of our dosh has been entrusted to other peoples to spend in the cause of Brentford Football Club and they have failed us. None of course will fall on their sword or even suggest that they are not up to it. They like the life in the directors hospitality and boardroom far too much.

 

[VTG]

Ah well, sack him then. Perhaps Mr Dyke would like to have some 'fun' with a division 2 club that's heading for 2008/09 clashes with Histon and Droylsden.

 

[Stuardo]

look Fitz seems like a good bloke and is eloquent - but it hasn't happened. and the team going out on the pitch for the past couple of months has been his.

fortunately i am only in my early 30's so can safely say that the performance yesterday was the worst most insipid uninspiring crap i've ever seen from brentford. no passion at the start of either half.

does anyone know what the tactics are?

it hasn't happened for Fitz and someone else should be brought in - arguably NOW so that they can see the players in the squad and decide if any deserve to be retained.

 

[hubble]

they should get dave bassett in asap

 

[VTG]

Yeh, I don't think you'll find a manager worth his salt that would readily join a club at this stage of a season. It would have been nice if we could have attracted Curbishley, but it became obvious what he was hanging out for.
How about this pair?

 

[steveleedsbee]

They won't do anything as drastic as sending the loan players back until it is mathmatically impossible not to stay up.

in a fortnight then the fat lady is singing man we got sh*t on at home by the worst team in the division, im an optomist but FFs its over 9 points 7 games lets get real, hello accrington im practically in tears typing this but its the facts................still heres to promotion next season
oh i didn't sing yesterday was too upset

 

[w6bee]

I think Fitz should have been given a chance to turn things around.

He was, he didn't.

With bareley a better record than Leroy, it looks like it is time for someone else to try and dig us out of the hole.

 

[steveleedsbee]

Blimey. Beware of the troll! You don't need to post it in multiple places, you know? Also, your anger is misguided. Try aiming your vitriol at the 8 useless, apparently deaf and blind, dumbarses on the pitch who couldn't be arsed, instead of the guy who's been given an impossible task and spent the whole match on his feet trying to give them some direction and inspiration.

Ah, and the next step IMO is to keep Ship on as a coach because he has the brain but not the body, keep Fitz as manager as I think with a team that's actually interested he could do well, ditch the crap, keep our few good players if possible, and get scouting around the local leagues ASAP.

Good post mate, just a bit confused about which 3 were the ones who could be arsed yesterday, i counted 2 and they were sqiurrel and Mousinho, big lloyd looked interested but he couldn't do it on his own

 

[Ken_Hom's_Wok]

and don't forget that he spoke to about 3 clubs during his team with us - and didn't bother telling us fans ("I deal in facts") for a month that he had resigned!

If this is the case why was he allowed to have any say whatsoever over the playing staff this year? This season has been one big colossal cock up, from the appointment of Leroy to the botched appointment of Fitz. I was firmly in favour of giving fitz the job for next season, but if the Rotherham game is just a taster of things to come then absolutely no way.

The second this club are officially relegated is when we need to start preparing for next season in terms of players we want to keep (kuffour and abbey) and those we dont want (all the others)- look at the aussies with the ashes- they immediately began preparations for the following series.

and as for making mousinho captain- no no no, please god no. Yes he tries but he is plainly not good enough- he cant pass forward, he dithers with the ball and is uncomfortable in possession. If he is the one bright spark this season then my god its been a bad one.

 

[love and mercy]

If we'd given Allen the playing budget he asked for, he would have had to find another excuse for going through with the decision he had already made to leave. But I am sure he would have found one.

exactly right.
I am sick to death of people praising Allen. He was always looking for a way out

 

[rebus]

If this is the case why was he allowed to have any say whatsoever over the playing staff this year?

The current chairman thought he wasn't going to leave.

 

[flowerpower bee]

Fitz was well aware of the playing resources available to him and what monies would be on the table during the transfer window. That pot was further enhanced by some £40k from the Fighting Chance fund which has been totally pissed away. He was absolutely confident that with the squad he inherited and the players whom he planned to bring in then the club would not be relegated. That was his brief....save us from relegation.......he accepted it, said that he could do it and was given the job on that basis. He has failed. We can argue 'til the cows come home on the reasons why but the fact remains that given his brief and his assurances to the BFC board that he could get us out of the mess created I submit almost entirely by the appointment of Rosenior (which was ferociously opposed at the time by a minority of the BFC board) then he is a failure. If you want to argue that it was not Fitz's mess then of course it wasn't but it became his mess the day he took the job. He is probably the nicest bloke in the world for all I know (I've never met him) but his dismal stint should not bring the reward of "well let's give him a few months next season". Football is a ruthless business and results driven both on and off the field. That takes care of Fitz. He's a busted flush and if I were chairman of the BFC board I would have been hitting the phones today and Fitz would be gone by noon tomorrow. Off the field I have no knowledge of the targets laid down for Keith Dickens but if he has hit many of them then all I can say is that the bar was set too low. His job has to be on the line. We have failed dismally to bring in more sponsorship monies....the windfall income from probably the final sale of the family silver (Tabb, Sodje, Turner) has been pissed away by the present executive and the BFC board fronting for an equally dismal holding company board.

Too much of our dosh has been entrusted to other peoples to spend in the cause of Brentford Football Club and they have failed us. None of course will fall on their sword or even suggest that they are not up to it. They like the life in the directors hospitality and boardroom far too much.

one relegation battle ended yesterday and another commences today;
that to ensure that we do not slide through division 2 and into the conference in twelve months time.

given the current playing standards at this club and the reduced playing budget for next season there must be a very real danger of the inthinkable happening.

i agree abee that the board should be addressing the issue of who will steer the ship from tomorrow morning. surely a job for experienced hands.

 

[Shirley Bee]

One of the (many) problems Leroy had was that he inherited MA's poor decisions – not offering Tabby an attractive deal earlier and moving out Michael Dobson* – and that he wasn't around early enough to pick up the best players going out of contract on 30 June and plan properly for the season.

I totally agree with abee that SF has been given a brief and failed. Regardless of the alternatives, his record says that he is not about to produce a team capable of challenging for Div 2 survival next season, letalone the play-offs.

But then I'm rather stumped. Just because people can't think of who could take the job instead of SF (the least bad/devil you know candidate) does not mean that there are not people out there who could give it a good shot.

But we need a board capable of identifying one of those people with a good chance of succeeding. Would they have identified Mike Newell, for example, before he was given a chance by Darlington?

On the evidence of the shambles earlier this season, they would not. I was one of the people who supported Keith Dickens' approach. It was one that I recognised from the business world, and one that he appeared capable of managing. Yet he didn't deliver.

Why not? I'm not sure we have ever really had a plausible explanation. Was it contractual brinkmanship with the guy from Oxford? Or was it sour grapes from the board directors not involved? It matters because a knowledge of history stops you from repeating your mistakes.

In summary, SF should go soon. The board should identify what went wrong with Keith Dickens' approach. They should put it right. And then try again.

I can't believe there are not former players out there who would jump at the chance of managing Brentford. Equally, IMO we cannot afford anyone that has had league success; and we don't want anyone that has tried elsewhere and failed (like Leroy), or is simply past it (like Dave Bassett, and see also Jim Smith at Oxford).

Our talented next new young manager is out there. But do we have a board capable of identifying him and securing his services?

* For good personal reasons I won't go into, but at the risk of being called a Judas, I went to see Wycombe Wanderers versus Walsall yesterday. Michael Dobson was Walsall's holding midfield player and captain. Walsall are second in Div 2 and likely to win automatic promotion. He was unspectacular, but he could tackle, head the ball, kick it with both feet, and pass the ball where he intended, which was usually a good place to put it. Nothing spectacular, just very steady. Almost as depressing as the result from Griffin Park.

 

[abee]

We need people that understand what it means to work on the breadline - sadly Messrs Bourke, Burgess, Dickens, Herting and Rogers are not that team. They've proven that in the way they have run this business (into the ground) over the last few years, nothwithstanding the mess they found themselves in when they inherited the business from Noades. However it is my opinion that the mistakes they've made since then have done irreversible damage to the club I love and quite frankly I personally would want shot of all of them. Otherwise all I can see is us going round in circles again - hapless managers, broken promises and complete and utter mismanagement.

Well yes King Bee but your father is on the Bees United board so you must be well aware that given the structure of the relationship between the holding company and its subsidiary then absolutely nothing can be done about it.

I take issue with you however regarding the "mess they found themselves in when they inherited the business from Noades". Bees United had been running the business since March 2003 and must have been fully aware of what it was taking on. It's the same as the Fitz situation........you take something on with the full knowledge of the facts and it's then your mess. If you don't feel that you have the full story then you find out before you decide whether you want the challenge.

What I suspect a lot of supporters do not understand is how the Bees United bar has been lowered from where they were talking about running the business at break-even (before or after interest depending upon who was doing the talking) to now having a built in loss of £500k plus before each season starts and with the Managing Director telling us that we had to find a million quid either from additional income or from cost-cutting just to keep going for the next couple of years.....no complaints about that statement as it ties in with the structured loss.......I'm just amazed at how the business could have been so misunderstood.

We don't seem to get a quarterly "financial flash report" anymore either on the BU or BFC official websites and maybe that's just as well for the sake of our blood pressure. It seems that we are all agreed that we shall break-even on paper for the financial year ending May 31 2007 because of the £700k plus windfall transfer income. We then kick off the new financial year/season with a built in loss of £500k and where we are presumably praying that the add-ons for Sodje and DJ materialise. abee's "Law of Business #23" states that any subsidiary General Manager who presents a budget to me and even once uses the word "ideally" under questioning is booted out of the room.......no one has however ever tried the "Xmas wish list" approach though I have to admit. That would probably render me speechless.....well maybe not..... more likely homicidal.

 

[Gee Bee]

Crewe manage it so why can't we? More to the point if we managed it then the club could actually grow and get more supporters if we do well.

Firstly since Gradi took over at Crewe around 25 years ago they have spent all but a couple of seasons in the bottom 2 divisions. As has Brentford.
They set up a youth acadamy scheme and have produced a number of talented players over that period and have had to sell to pay off losses. Their acadamy currently costs them excess of £1m per season. I would suggest that Brentford have a much cheaper option with the FITC scheme and non league scouting network that in all probability has netted the football club a not far short of what Crewe have produced in transfer revenue over the last 25 years.
Imho it's a mis-conception that Crewe are a model to follow as they have achieved no more in reality than Brentford. The only difference is that Crewe know they are at best a league 1 side and have stuck by their manager even when they have struggled for results and relegation follows.

 

[abee]

Firstly since Gradi took over at Crewe around 25 years ago they have spent all but a couple of seasons in the bottom 2 divisions. As has Brentford.
They set up a youth acadamy scheme and have produced a number of talented players over that period and have had to sell to pay off losses. Their acadamy currently costs them excess of £1m per season. I would suggest that Brentford have a much cheaper option with the FITC scheme and non league scouting network that in all probability has netted the football club a not far short of what Crewe have produced in transfer revenue over the last 25 years.
Imho it's a mis-conception that Crewe are a model to follow as they have achieved no more in reality than Brentford. The only difference is that Crewe know they are at best a league 1 side and have stuck by their manager even when they have struggled for results and relegation follows.

Agreed Gee Bee but then Crewe supporters have long accepted their place in the scheme of things and just settled down to enjoy the (mostly decent) football at whatever current level they find themselves in.

The problem that Bees United created for itself was in raising expectations and in feeding the supportbase in the past with the various programme articles on how brilliantly the club was being managed coupled with the current :-

Objective/Goals/Strategies/Measures

on which we are presently dining. Ambition has to be tempered by realism and to even be talking about......

"achieving a turnover of £10million with an average crowd of 10,000 and a 15,000 membership database as a Championship club in the top half of the division and constantly challenging for promotion and cups"

sets the bar. Those aren't my words, they come from the BFC board and presumably are endorsed by the holding company board. I have said before than anyone can write this stuff but if there is a plan for achieving the goals (is this where we are supposed to be at the end of The Five Year Plan???) then it hasn't been made available to us. Those who tried in the past to inject a "get real" note into the "Great March to Wonderland" were derided as being whingers, mischief makers and liars.

My principal complaint is the raised expectations......."promise less than you know you can deliver and then deliver more than you promised"......a business maxim than none of the wise men on the two boards ever seem to have stumbled across.

 

[beeeehive]

I'd personally like to see a manager come in who was also a leader on the pitch at the top level like Ince or Keane have done, giving the club a huge boost and attractng better players. The wages won't be huge as they're trying to break into management.

Ince can't be on a lot of money so surely it's possible?

I wonder if the likes of Lee Dixon want a job? Even get Merson in to work with Dixon?

Imagine a team not performing if John Fashanu was gaffer lol

 

[kevalutonbee]

I wonder if the likes of Lee Dixon want a job? Even get Merson in to work with Dixon?

Why set yourself for a fall when you can get £x per week in a cosy TV studio and in the case of Dixon I hear he does a nice line in curry houses

 

[beeeehive]

Surely it's harder for Crewe to find young players given their location, can't it be done for far less money?

We have more potential then Crewe given our location, if a rich chap took us over and put loads of money into the club we'd probably have around 20,000 at least wanting to come depending on how successful we are and if we were challenging for a place in the Premiership. It's just getting there which is the big problem! Look at Fulham, from 3000 to 20+ with Chelsea next door.

A big enough stadium is obviously the next step but surely that makes youth development even more important, I'm not on about buying young players from other clubs.

I'd like to see the club have open trials reguraly for the day with kids all over London having a go, so many people want to be footballers out there and I'm sure lots would come along. X-factor style trials lol

Amongst all the crap there's always going to be a couple of good things. Not all good players play for a club already. Crystal Palace let Tabb go for christ sake, idiots. Wasn't he told he'd never make it? pleanty more out there like him.

 

[beeeehive]

Why set yourself for a fall when you can get £x per week in a cosy TV studio and in the case of Dixon I hear he does a nice line in curry houses

I think we should be banging on the door of Paul Ince and Mike Newell at the moment, if you don't ask you don't get.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I think we should be banging on the door of Paul Ince and Mike Newell at the moment, if you don't ask you don't get.

We won't ask.

 

[Gee Bee]

Agreed Gee Bee but then Crewe supporters have long accepted their place in the scheme of things and just settled down to enjoy the (mostly decent) football at whatever current level they find themselves in.

The problem that Bees United created for itself was in raising expectations and in feeding the supportbase in the past with the various programme articles on how brilliantly the club was being managed coupled with the current :-

Objective/Goals/Strategies/Measures

on which we are presently dining. Ambition has to be tempered by realism and to even be talking about......

"achieving a turnover of £10million with an average crowd of 10,000 and a 15,000 membership database as a Championship club in the top half of the division and constantly challenging for promotion and cups"

sets the bar. Those aren't my words, they come from the BFC board and presumably are endorsed by the holding company board. I have said before than anyone can write this stuff but if there is a plan for achieving the goals (is this where we are supposed to be at the end of The Five Year Plan???) then it hasn't been made available to us. Those who tried in the past to inject a "get real" note into the "Great March to Wonderland" were derided as being whingers, mischief makers and liars.

My principal complaint is the raised expectations......."promise less than you know you can deliver and then deliver more than you promised"......a business maxim than none of the wise men on the two boards ever seem to have stumbled across.

Quite agree. My point was purely pointing out that had Brentford modelled themselves on the Crewe model over the last 25 years we wouldn't have achieved much more if anymore than where we are now. Crewe have been in our current position in the last 10 years (debt aside of course, although they do not own such a prime asset either). Yet they have stuck with their manager, whereas I'm sure our greater expectation fanbase would have wanted Gradi out years ago. This greater expectation also is way before BU too.

 

[beeeehive]

We won't ask.

I know, but I'd love to see Ince in charge, Mr Lennox Lewis said Ince was his bodygaurd when they went out lol

One of the best leaders on the pitch and most under-rated midfielders England has had.

I beg the board to ask him, even if he laughs in their face.

 

[beeeehive]

Quite agree. My point was purely pointing out that had Brentford modelled themselves on the Crewe model over the last 25 years we wouldn't have achieved much more if anymore than where we are now. Crewe have been in our current position in the last 10 years (debt aside of course, although they do not own such a prime asset either). Yet they have stuck with their manager, whereas I'm sure our greater expectation fanbase would have wanted Gradi out years ago. This greater expectation also is way before BU too.

I'm not asking Brentford to model themselves on Crewe but to be more ambitious when it comes to finding young players without a club.

 

[kevalutonbee]

We won't ask.

If the stories in my neck of the woods are true, the only reason Newell wasn't sacked earlier was they couldn't afford the compo, 3 yrs at c£400k pa. They have allegedly sacked him on the grounds of misconduct thus saving the compo as he was in breach of contract.

Unless he is desperate I don't think he will accept whatever we can offer

 

[Gee Bee]

I'm not asking Brentford to model themselves on Crewe but to be more ambitious when it comes to finding young players without a club.

Can you substantiate how we are not doing this?
We do not have a full acadamy but have one of the best FITC schemes in the lower leagues. We have also discovered many young non league talents that we have sold on mainly due to necessity although some were without doubt badly timed ( Webb sales in particular). We have also signed others on the cheap from similar level to ours and sold at profit.I therefore feel the clubs record on youth & non league signings are as comparable to any others at our level.

 

[jimmycisabee]

i agree with everyone who says we need to get a new manager in soonish, however who is going to appoint him is there anyone at the club capable of this? obviously dickens the dick can't. No decent manager wants to go to a hundred interviews and all that crap that happened last time, it aint rocket science a good football manager, is a good football manager you don't need an interview to find that out

 

[SpiderBee]

What we need to work out is what is the realistic target for the 2007/8 season in division 2.
I would suggest that survival at that desperate level of football is the minimum requirement and that we need to ensure that a second succesive relegation does not follow.
Given the situation at Oxford United this season, where 6,000 gates in quite a nice stadium have not guaranteed promotion, Conference football is simply not an option.
Stability and consolidation MUST be achieved before any talk of 1st division or Championship football should be considered.
The club needs to produce a long term target that is both realistic and attainable whilst considering the infrastructure both on and off the field.
That policy should include the setting up of a professionally run academy with facilities to match, a revamp of coaching and scouting policies beyong the conurbation of the Borough of Hounslow. Outwith the obvious urgent 1st XI needs this academy MUST take priority alongside 2nd division survival.
I do not know Fitz (though I understand he did well with the youth set up) but I do know Reevesy and I would strongly recommend that he be kept on next season to help with academy preperation and coaching, unless a better option can be found.
The whole culture of Brentford Football Club needs to change with much more professionalism, especially in dealing with customers/clients (supporters) and the opinions of supporters should not only be heard but, in relevant cases, adhered to. Let us really become a fan run club and get rid of the ponces, hanger-ons and egotistical maniacs prevalent at GP in recent years!
We should cast our net wide in searching for the right management team; one that can work comfortably with a small budget and one that has great experience of such conditions. No dinosaurs looking for a final payday. Lets consider up and coming foreign coaches but not at the expense of talented local people.
And, as a club, we should be looking to give fresh coaches/other staff the opportunity to work throughout the club as an "investor in people"!
There is one other thing that has been considered by many clubs but they are too afraid to implement. That is semi-professionalism!
There are some superb players around who have the best of both worlds in holding down two professions ie football and whatever.
I am pretty convinced that many clubs want to take this route but fear the wrath of supporters who would cite "no board ambition" as a negative response. This is nonsense!
This club can only go on for so long losing money as it does and, I fear, to cover such losses we will lose any benefit of any eventual sale of GP. We MUST address our finances NOW and in offering young hungry players an opportunity to play at a high level of football, we can, I am certain, unearth some real gems. One other plus of this situation is that it would eradicate this "us and them" situation that has, sadly,developed between supporters and players recently!
True, the best talent will end up at Chelsea, Spurs etc but there are lots of youngsters (to be aided by mature (semi?) professionals) that can compete comfortably in league 2 that I have seen this season who would wear the stripes with pride and endear themselves to a patient supporter base. Because that is what the club would need.
Your support, patience and understanding as the club developed a long term strategy to secure it's football league future.
The club has the potential to succeed and has the potential to be a role model to other clubs.
I would like BFC to be innovative and entertaining and professional in outlook, preperation and design but above all, I want this fine old club to be proud again.
We have a choice of course. We can fumble around blindly in the dark (as we have done for several years now) or we can address this desperate situation in a calm and professional manner.
I am afraid that will take courage and bravery and, sadly, I see little of that at Griffin Park at this moment in time (unless you count those brave enough to watch any more of this dross or sample a burger).
I challenge the club to consider its options for the future; to be bold and to give the long suffering Bees fans a feeling of hope and peace of mind on this blackest of Mondays!
I wait with baited breath!

 

[SpiderBee]

Can you substantiate how we are not doing this?
We do not have a full acadamy but have one of the best FITC schemes in the lower leagues. We have also discovered many young non league talents that we have sold on mainly due to necessity although some were without doubt badly timed ( Webb sales in particular). We have also signed others on the cheap from similar level to ours and sold at profit.I therefore feel the clubs record on youth & non league signings are as comparable to any others at our level.

No problem with that Gee Bee but it could be EVEN BETTER!

 

[beeeehive]

Can you substantiate how we are not doing this?
We do not have a full acadamy but have one of the best FITC schemes in the lower leagues. We have also discovered many young non league talents that we have sold on mainly due to necessity although some were without doubt badly timed ( Webb sales in particular). We have also signed others on the cheap from similar level to ours and sold at profit.I therefore feel the clubs record on youth & non league signings are as comparable to any others at our level.

I just don't remember the last time we developed a player from scratch, not signed from non league etc and sold on. Marcus Bent maybe?

Our signings from non league teams have been top notch in recent years and been the main player sales. Look at the players we got from the Youth set-up at Crystal Palace on the cheap. Tabb and Hunt is something we don't seem to produce.

I'd like to see more open day trials approach several times a season and see if any talent can be found. Gain a reputation for looking at young players, no harm done if we dont find any.

 

[Gee Bee]

No problem with that Gee Bee but it could be EVEN BETTER!

It could, but running a full acadamy costs Crewe excess of £1m a year. We currently cannot afford that thanks to the current loans/debt situation. Also widening your scouting networks is all well and good, but persuading young talent to move to London and it's extra cost of living will be the biggest obstacle imho. Which is why we will for the forseeable future be reliant on local non league clubs providing the future telent for the club. Unfortunatley many of those are currently also not producing too much, when you look at their league standings.

 

[SpiderBee]

It could, but running a full acadamy costs Crewe excess of £1m a year. We currently cannot afford that thanks to the current loans/debt situation. Also widening your scouting networks is all well and good, but persuading young talent to move to London and it's extra cost of living will be the biggest obstacle imho. Which is why we will for the forseeable future be reliant on local non league clubs providing the future telent for the club. Unfortunatley many of those are currently also not producing too much, when you look at their league standings.

We have contacts throughout the South and West and we need to utilise those. I have seen at least 10 players this season who, I feel, may crack it in division 2 with the right coaching and back up.
I like the idea of open trials throughout the summer suggested by beeeehive!!
As for the academy, we need investment to create this I know. If we can earmark the venue (is our current training ground up to it?) then lottery funding is available to assist with this. We could build an accomodation complex/hostel for "out of town" players too!
We must find ways to overcome obstacles and remain positive!

 

[Gee Bee]

Look at the players we got from the Youth set-up at Crystal Palace on the cheap. Tabb and Hunt is something we don't seem to produce.

Again Palace have a very expensive to run Youth Acadamy. We have also got some right useless lumps from there too, Gareth Graham & Kennedy etc etc. So every signing ain't going to be Tabb or Hunt. We have recently had signings from Chelsea academy and how great have they been?

My company used to Insure Chelsea footballers including youth team players and when I look at what they had back then very few are now playing at a higher level than Brentford now and most are probably well down the non league ladder only John Terry has had any success, how many others have been in their academies from the age of 8 and made it? Bottom line is that is very rare for a player to come all the way through to top pro standard as in reality there are not many places available for the 100's that try.

 

[Gee Bee]

We could build an accomodation complex/hostel for "out of town" players too!
/QUOTE]

Build where? First you need a site then planning permission and then the funds to build it.
:sad:

 

[kevalutonbee]

up to it?) then lottery funding is available must :

My understanding is that groups must demonstrate they have equal funds in place to those they ask for.

If memory serves me right didn't the FLT threaten to take funding away if we didn't use the money they granted us because we were taking so long to come up with the readies?

 

[PJ]

I like the idea of open trials throughout the summer suggested by beeeehive!!

Often wondered why clubs like ours dont have these every year. Nothing to lose and who knows we might discover a gem.
Been discussed ad nauseum before but a bigger issue for me is the lack of a reserve team which means our kids have to go straight from youth team to first team without getting games under their belts. Our youngsters are well and truly thrown into the deep end at GP..........