Thomas Frank

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Thomas Frank

sid said:
I'm still convinced we need a big tall striker on the bench, just for occasions like this.
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We've tried this more than once in recent seasons and has never proved fruitful. Waste of money and bench space. (Could stick the central defender who's on the bench up there as a last minute effort, of course, in extremis).
 

Thomas Frank

Other than the German chap(name escapes me), How many others did we use on a fairly consistent basis?
 

Thomas Frank

sid said:
Why take Neil off? a little and large would have been a different option.
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We're not going to change formation to 4-4-2; when we're chasing a game and need some height, it will be a centre back up there.
 

Thomas Frank

sid said:
Other than the German chap(name escapes me), How many others did we use on a fairly consistent basis?
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Andy McCulloch?
 

Thomas Frank

jlove said:
We're not going to change formation to 4-4-2; when we're chasing a game and need some height, it will be a centre back up there.
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You don't seem to want change in some instances do you. Best keep on doing the same thing then and hope for something different. Einstein would love you.
 

Thomas Frank

Every single time we passed into and attacked space we created chances. We didn’t do it enough though. Very little in first half.

Noticed all the subs apart from Watkins left it late warning up at half time. Big team talk maybe. Or just changing boots probably. Annoying to see Nico slipping over that many times.

I like the way Frank made an effort to connect with fans at the end.
 

Thomas Frank

sid said:
You don't seem to want change in some instances do you. Best keep on doing the same thing then and hope for something different. Einstein would love you.
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There's a lot of things that can change within the core formation but changing the formation is very disruptive to the whole team, we only do it in sheer desperation and it never seems to work.

Very, very few teams in the top two divisions play a 4-4-2, it fell out of favour 12-ish years ago and has the lowest % win ratio in the PL. It's now nearly always possession-based, playing three central midfielders and one central striker, either in a 4-2-3-1 (as we did until the beginning of last season) or a 4-3-3 – the one with the highest win ratio. In the Championship, Millwall have stuck rigidly with it and WBA seem to use it quite a bit; I can't think of others. I can't recall the last time we lined up like that and, with our young squad, it's probable that none of our players have ever played that way.
 

Thomas Frank

sid said:
You don't seem to want change in some instances do you. Best keep on doing the same thing then and hope for something different. Einstein would love you.
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Playing the way we do means we regularly finish in the top 10 of the Chanpionship, we attract players that are comfortable on the ball and who can find attacking passes. We also regularly have more shots on goal than virtually every other team.

To change our style to facilitate a big CF would also mean a change in style for virtually the whole team and mean jettisoning our way of business. Yes a big CF would be different however rather than throw the baby out with the bath water if we have to change late on then we might as well just put a defender up top
 

Thomas Frank

The Pipe said:
Playing the way we do means we regularly finish in the top 10 of the Chanpionship, we attract players that are comfortable on the ball and who can find attacking passes. We also regularly have more shots on goal than virtually every other team.

To change our style to facilitate a big CF would also mean a change in style for virtually the whole team and mean jettisoning our way of business. Yes a big CF would be different however rather than throw the baby out with the bath water if we have to change late on then we might as well just put a defender up top
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The 'problem' caused by not having a tall striker has been their since Donaldson left but as you say we've progressed without having one. If we were to get in someone tall, to fit in they would need to be a decent player (like Donaldson was)and not just a basic target man like Matt Smith and Steve Morrison are. Trouble is I guess the type of player I'm talking about cost big bucks

Yesterday did show how hard it is for Bentley and it would be the same whoever played in goal. One game in the play off season sticks out for me. We were leading 3-2 home to Brighton yet Button was rushing round trying to get the ball out quick as if we were losing. It was simply so he could go short before the defenders were closed down as he knew if he launched the ball long, it would come straight back.
 

Thomas Frank

We adapt to what we have with far more crosses zipped in low. Zahore has been found wanting in the Premier Leagie but I’d love a quick tall strong skilful striker at some point.
 

Thomas Frank

seanrs said:
The 'problem' caused by not having a tall striker has been their since Donaldson left but as you say we've progressed without having one. If we were to get in someone tall, to fit in they would need to be a decent player (like Donaldson was)and not just a basic target man like Matt Smith and Steve Morrison are. Trouble is I guess the type of player I'm talking about cost big bucks

Yesterday did show how hard it is for Bentley and it would be the same whoever played in goal. One game in the play off season sticks out for me. We were leading 3-2 home to Brighton yet Button was rushing round trying to get the ball out quick as if we were losing. It was simply so he could go short before the defenders were closed down as he knew if he launched the ball long, it would come straight back.
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Without Ollie yesterday we had very little height or physical strength in the starting midfield and forward line.
It’s not a big target man we need, it’s a physical presence to challenge for clearances that Ollie and Josh Da Silva gave us when they came on.
 

Thomas Frank

sonofabee said:
Without Ollie yesterday we had very little height or physical strength in the starting midfield and forward line.
It’s not a big target man we need, it’s a physical presence to challenge for clearances that Ollie and Josh Da Silva gave us when they came on.
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Things definitely improved when Ollie came on as it gave their defenders something to think about as a threat in the air. That said, I agree with the decision to rest him
 

Thomas Frank

North London Bee said:
We adapt to what we have with far more crosses zipped in low. Zahore has been found wanting in the Premier Leagie but I’d love a quick tall strong skilful striker at some point.
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Could Forss develop into that type of player? Not seen him play so don't know his style.

Recent tall forwards we have signed unfortunately haven't been a rip roaring success
 

Thomas Frank

Surely if we went back to having that type of player all that would happen is the back five would just launch it to the front as quick as possible rendering the creativity we have in midfield redundant?
 

Thomas Frank

I'm not sure a game against Millwall should be the basis of changing our strategy, though.
 

Thomas Frank

kevalutonbee said:
Surely if we went back to having that type of player all that would happen is the back five would just launch it to the front as quick as possible rendering the creativity we have in midfield redundant?
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Agree, we need more options up top for when forwards are off form, injured or suspended. Personally I’d like a big, quick, mobile forward down the middle to give us a plan b when we need it but not a Smith obelisk that we lump long balls at. I like the strategy we have successfully adopted in recent years.
 

Thomas Frank

Ideally a big, strong, fast striker with all the other attributes but without the price tag to match.Be nice if we could produce our own in time.
 

Thomas Frank

The Pipe said:
Playing the way we do means we regularly finish in the top 10 of the Chanpionship, we attract players that are comfortable on the ball and who can find attacking passes. We also regularly have more shots on goal than virtually every other team.

To change our style to facilitate a big CF would also mean a change in style for virtually the whole team and mean jettisoning our way of business. Yes a big CF would be different however rather than throw the baby out with the bath water if we have to change late on then we might as well just put a defender up top
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We don't want a big carthorse like the Wall striker...……….no thanks !
 

Thomas Frank

Credit where credits due, the 2nd half yesterday and particularly the 15 minutes after the first goal was a lot more encouraging. Someone made a good point to me on the update threads about confidence, and you could see how much better we were when we had it. Hopefully this is the start of the turn around.
 

Thomas Frank

Good to hear from Frank that he is concentrating on improving our collective approach to defending as one of his tweaks. It's more than a tweak though.Defensive solidity brings consistency which brings success. IMO this has been our biggest weakness. Smith talked about consistency but we never got there .
 

Thomas Frank

One way of avoiding the ultra high press on goal kicks might be to go all retro and have McEachran take place kicks as he’s capable of laying the ball long onto a sixpence. Not sure I’ve seen it done other than with an injured keeper for decades though!
 

Thomas Frank

AB said:
One way of avoiding the ultra high press on goal kicks might be to go all retro and have McEachran take place kicks as he’s capable of laying the ball long onto a sixpence. Not sure I’ve seen it done other than with an injured keeper for decades though!
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Interesting idea but goal kicks are all about the second ball.
 

Thomas Frank

seanrs said:
Could Forss develop into that type of player? Not seen him play so don't know his style.

Recent tall forwards we have signed unfortunately haven't been a rip roaring success
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Very possibly not as in a target man style forward but someone who is quick and has the strength and height to provide a different option
 

Thomas Frank

Noticed when playing at home with JM we do seem to wear down the opposition and they look absolutely knackered at round 75 mins. Frank mentioned about keep possession, keep passing and keep patient.
 

Thomas Frank

jlove said:
There's a lot of things that can change within the core formation but changing the formation is very disruptive to the whole team, we only do it in sheer desperation and it never seems to work.

Very, very few teams in the top two divisions play a 4-4-2, it fell out of favour 12-ish years ago and has the lowest % win ratio in the PL. It's now nearly always possession-based, playing three central midfielders and one central striker, either in a 4-2-3-1 (as we did until the beginning of last season) or a 4-3-3 – the one with the highest win ratio. In the Championship, Millwall have stuck rigidly with it and WBA seem to use it quite a bit; I can't think of others. I can't recall the last time we lined up like that and, with our young squad, it's probable that none of our players have ever played that way.
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On MOTD2, Ruud Gullit made some interesting observations, that started in a discussion about the success of smaller players, on the style of play of Man City/Guardiola, Liverpool/Klopp and Chelsea/Sarri and the 4-3-3 formation. A few points rang a bell (I've not re-watched it but will later): smaller players (clearly with all the technical and physical skills) are more mobile than taller players and it's movement that creates goal-scoring opportunities; defenders need to be taller, to deal with crosses, and, therefore, need to be extra quick (with all the ...) to deal with the mobility of those smaller attackers; centre backs are the players who start attacks; midfielders need to interchange, not stick with static roles (Kanté under Sarri was referenced). For me, it was all very interesting.
 

Thomas Frank

Some serious work to do on defending in next 2 wks with those 2 home matches looming.
 

Thomas Frank

w7 bee said:
Some serious work to do on defending in next 2 wks with those 2 home matches looming.
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But with 3 of today’s back 4 on international duty it will be difficult
 

Thomas Frank

Big test for him.

More of the same or change things.

A real dilemma.
 

Thomas Frank

Tick tock. Shipping goals. No tempo. Not doing the basics.

Current TF rating 2/10.
 

Thomas Frank

He is the logical (& probably the cheapest option) . Time will tell if he’s the right one ?
 

Thomas Frank

Bridge Bee said:
Tick tock. Shipping goals. No tempo. Not doing the basics.

Current TF rating 2/10.
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Inherited a young team who had begun to struggle with injuries & form & with one style & method of play. Can't change that over night. He's also had bad reffing & a whole host of behind the scenes changes to manage....so I'm giving your unecessarily negative assessment of TF a 1/10 BB ?
 

Thomas Frank

He’s also having to contend with a squad that is seemingly unbalanced. We rode the crest of a wave at the beginning of the season but some of those deficiencies are becoming somewhat more striking.
 

Thomas Frank

Not making a change for quarter of an hour after going 3-1 down was a bit baffling...
 

Thomas Frank

Personally I’ll reserve judgement until after around 4-5 games after this international break. TF should then have more of a first team squad to pick from which currently, he doesn’t. Not panicking yet and I’m sure MB won’t.
 
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