Thomas Frank

[Invipai]

Interesting take...I didn't manage to see the game unfortunately but it's good that most are going onside.... There are still a lot of questions and I think Saturday will say a lot, how we perform then could indicate the direction of our season. If things start to go well I'll happily support him, if the slide in performances carries on then it may be a sign that this is one too far for him...

 

[Bush Tuckerman]

Mr F ditch the zonal marking where the lads mark an empty space while the oppos have the freedom of the box. It's not hide and seek.

It's difficult I know to match up our players against theirs at crosses when it is evident most of ours are considerably shorter.

Watching Emiliano trying to mark one of their CB's was a bit terrifying. Even the commentary team said as much.

I agree - we look lost zonal marking at the moment! We just set up 2 banks of 4/5 players and invite the opposition onto us without particularly closing down any space...personally I think that’s something to introduce when we have nothing to play for or in pre-season! It’s causing our defence a lot of problems and not doing their confidence much good!

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I agree - we look lost zonal marking at the moment! We just set up 2 banks of 4/5 players and invite the opposition onto us without particularly closing down any space...personally I think that’s something to introduce when we have nothing to play for or in pre-season! It’s causing our defence a lot of problems and not doing their confidence much good!

I would argue though that if we mark man for man, we would get beaten in most of the duels and it might look even more of a mess. I guess zonal means if you're disciplined, you have your your best headers in the most dangerous areas.

 

[Stanley]

I would argue though that if we mark man for man, we would get beaten in most of the duels and it might look even more of a mess. I guess zonal means if you're disciplined, you have your your best headers in the most dangerous areas.

How many goals have we actually conceded direct from a corner? I can't remember many..

 

[jlove]

I thought we saw, last night, a very different defensive organisation – it may not have worked that well but it was clearly something that (I guess) Brian Riemer has added to the tactical coaching. When it happened, we had three players working out wide: the wide attacker and a midfielder covering the full back (Watkins/Judge and Marcondes and the right and Judge/Watkins and Sawyers on the left); when play switched central, both midfielders came inside to support McEachran. I hope they continue to work on it and that the less defensively-interested players, like Canós and Benrahma, buy into it as well.

I thought, also, the change at half time to a higher press caught WBA out and gave our players more confidence to get forward. The reaction to conceding was also a big change in that we spent some minutes just retaining possession and calming down, not trying to go gung-ho for an equaliser like a playground game. The immediate switch of Benrahma for a tiring Watkins, with WBA's reaction to sit deeper, gave us the impetus to go for it... really pleasing that heads did not drop.

Of course, we were lucky in the first half but I saw enough to think there's a lot to build on, especially with confidence throughout the squad and coaching staff. The scenes at the end showed that.

 

[BlueJayBee]

Of course, we were lucky in the first half

There have been plenty of occasions where we've been unlucky and not got the rewards we deserved.

 

[warwickroadbee]

Thomas Frank is getting a fair ok bit of bad press on here...

But let’s not forget he’s faced 5 of the top 6 and an in form QPR away.

Not enough data to judge until after the next three games I say.

 

[JumboJet]

There's no getting away from the fact that we were shambolic in that first half and very very fortunate to go in 0-0 at HT.

Lewis MacLeod, who has also been under the spotlight with some sections of our supporters, stepping up to snatch an equaliser has done TF a big favour in my view, as performances and results have not generally not been good enough under TF. We probably didn't deserve a point over 90 minutes, but we got one, and a good point at that.

I'm not convinced, as I am sure most are not, but I hope that this is the turning point for TF, who could do with a really solid performance across the park and a decent result on Saturday.

 

[Balders Bee]

There's no getting away from the fact that we were shambolic in that first half and very very fortunate to go in 0-0 at HT.

Lewis MacLeod, who has also been under the spotlight with some sections of our supporters, stepping up to snatch an equaliser has done TF a big favour in my view, as performances and results have not generally not been good enough under TF. We probably didn't deserve a point over 90 minutes, but we got one, and a good point at that.

I'm not convinced, as I am sure most are not, but I hope that this is the turning point for TF, who could do with a really solid performance across the park and a decent result on Saturday.

It was unconvincing in the first half but we showed a resolve in the 2nd half which put paid to the "The team aren't playing for Frank" nonsense. I don't think in general we have been as bad under Frank as the results suggest and our general play has deserved so if we got a big slice of luck last night that's alright by me.

The next four matches will really determine if we can move forward under Frank or if we need to change things again.

 

[JCMcBee]

.....i still think TF needs an experienced foil beside him who understands the english game....i know Keith Millens' name has been banded about on here....but someone of his ilk would be a huge asset to TF.

 

[jlove]

.....i still think TF needs an experienced foil beside him who understands the english game....i know Keith Millens' name has been banded about on here....but someone of his ilk would be a huge asset to TF.

Do you honestly think that 2 years of coaching in the Championship is not enough to learn the "English game"? It's just physical and high-tempo, with less technical football. Thomas' focus seems to be tactical and details; Brian's clearly about defensive organisation, so the third coach needs to be, IMHO, someone the players can relate to with attacking creativity.

 

[JCMcBee]

Do you honestly think that 2 years of coaching in the Championship is not enough to learn the "English game"? It's just physical and high-tempo, with less technical football. Thomas' focus seems to be tactical and details; Brian's clearly about defensive organisation, so the third coach needs to be, IMHO, someone the players can relate to with attacking creativity.

....i thought the attacking creativity was TFs dept. and incorporated in the technical aspect of the set-up at BFC....my 'english game' reference was with regards to an individual who has many years experience both playing and coaching here....Millen was just one example....the 'english game' has a personality of its own and is different to football in Denmark....my main point was that i believe TF would benefit from having a 'Richard O'Kelly' by his side.

 

[CTBee]

Mr F ditch the zonal marking where the lads mark an empty space while the oppos have the freedom of the box. It's not hide and seek.

It's difficult I know to match up our players against theirs at crosses when it is evident most of ours are considerably shorter.

Watching Emiliano trying to mark one of their CB's was a bit terrifying. Even the commentary team said as much.

I disagree regarding ditching zonal marking. I think it’s working really well. We’re a team of midgets getting bombarded by set pieces yet we haven’t conceded any goals from corners against huge sides like Millwall, Boro and West Brom.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Got out of jail last night after that first half performance.

I still question why it has gone so badly especially when you consider hes been around the squad for 2 years.

 

[CTBee]

Another point on zonal marking from me. The Sky commentators didn’t get it at all. They kept saying look at these mis-matches, one good delivery and Brentford are toast. West Brom put in a good delivery and one of Dalsgaard, Konsa or Mepham heads it away. Our smaller players were marking man to man to stop their big players from getting a free run/free header of the ball. At the same time, Dalsgaard/Konsa/Mepham were charged with covering zones. What this invariably means is that the ball will go into one of the zones they are covering and they will have a clear run and jump at the ball, usually resulting a free header and an easy clearance. Their big attackers don’t have the same luxury of a free run at the ball because our smaller are tracking them and providing physical contact to block their runs and stop them getting a clear run to attack the ball.

West Brom are joint top of goals scored from set pieces this season (with us) and we stopped them, not in spite of zonal marking but because of it.

 

[rhbee]

Another point on zonal marking from me. The Sky commentators didn’t get it at all. They kept saying look at these mis-matches, one good delivery and Brentford are toast. West Brom put in a good delivery and one of Dalsgaard, Konsa or Mepham heads it away. Our smaller players were marking man to man to stop their big players from getting a free run/free header of the ball. At the same time, Dalsgaard/Konsa/Mepham were charged with covering zones. What this invariably means is that the ball will go into one of the zones they are covering and they will have a clear run and jump at the ball, usually resulting a free header and an easy clearance. Their big attackers don’t have the same luxury of a free run at the ball because our smaller are tracking them and providing physical contact to block their runs and stop them getting a clear run to attack the ball.

West Brom are joint top of goals scored from set pieces this season (with us) and we stopped them, not in spite of zonal marking but because of it.

That's how it's supposed to work, and I personally think it's working at set pieces.

 

[jlove]

The Sky commentators didn’t get it at all...

Being at the game, I did not receive the benefit of the SS commentators wisdom (nor would I ever as I don't watch it) but I've seen a number of references to their interpretation of what was going on – not just on this – that don't correspond to what I saw. My conclusion, therefore, is they, like most commentators, talk utter ********.

 

[Beat Poet]

Being at the game, I did not receive the benefit of the SS commentators wisdom (nor would I ever as I don't watch it) but I've seen a number of references to their interpretation of what was going on – not just on this – that don't correspond to what I saw. My conclusion, therefore, is they, like most commentators, talk utter ********.

If Don Goodman deserves any due (!!), he did sound at times frustrated we were that bad/naive, because him and the viewers know how good Brentford can be and wanted to see a bit of that...but yeah, alot of it sounded like typical managed "ex-EPL giants versus minnow non-hopers" Sky patter.

 

[West Wilts Bee]

From what I can see of it, all the Players are behind Thomas Frank. the team played their hearts out last night. Yes they pissed all over us first half and we were well deep. Should as has been said been at least three down.. I noticed straight away that we pressed them high up the pitch 2nd half and that was on TF's instruction, and as a result saw a lot more of the ball. Bentley had a couple of fist aways in the 2nd half and apart from that had **** all to do. We need to realise that we played a team that has just come down from the Premiershit, they had quality players all over the pitch > I could not believe it when I saw Kieiran Gibbs playing sorry about the spelling.. The club have to be commended for turning this potential massacre around. and we as fans need to give TF and the team 100% support. ****ing great night when Lewis got the equaliser. I hope confidence is getting higher cos first half we were well short of it. Thanks bees for this great effort. I was walking tall today

 

[West Wilts Bee]

Sky are pathetic.

 

[BFC1997]

I saw enough effort last night to tell me that he hasn’t lost the dressing room.

I saw enough bad defending to tell me that there’s a lot of work to be done.

 

[readingbee]

From what I can see of it, all the Players are behind Thomas Frank. the team played their hearts out last night. Yes they pissed all over us first half and we were well deep. Should as has been said been at least three down.. I noticed straight away that we pressed them high up the pitch 2nd half and that was on TF's instruction, and as a result saw a lot more of the ball. Bentley had a couple of fist aways in the 2nd half and apart from that had **** all to do. We need to realise that we played a team that has just come down from the Premiershit, they had quality players all over the pitch > I could not believe it when I saw Kieiran Gibbs playing sorry about the spelling.. The club have to be commended for turning this potential massacre around. and we as fans need to give TF and the team 100% support. ****ing great night when Lewis got the equaliser. I hope confidence is getting higher cos first half we were well short of it. Thanks bees for this great effort. I was walking tall today

Agree with you. I’ve read a few of their forums. Most posters are upset at drawing when they have been so dominant, where have we heard that before !! The post that sums the difference in the teams very well from one of their fans said. We are a side with good Championship players, they are a side with mainly Premiership players. If you put that into context with our currently weakened squad. The lads did really well last night to come away with a point. I feel we can still get better even with the current squad when they are all fit. People need to give TF a bit of slack.

 

[CTBee]

Being at the game, I did not receive the benefit of the SS commentators wisdom (nor would I ever as I don't watch it) but I've seen a number of references to their interpretation of what was going on – not just on this – that don't correspond to what I saw. My conclusion, therefore, is they, like most commentators, talk utter ********.

They made some valid points but they also talked a lot of rubbish.

 

[Robi Bee]

Sky are pathetic.

They are also the reason we get to see live football on TV when we can't get to games. As well helping pay the very considerable wages of professional footballers. I'm no fan of Goodman but he did also say, at the start of the game that Brentford (alongside Leeds) are the most exciting and his favourite team to watch in the division.

 

[IslandBee]

Got out of jail last night after that first half performance.

I still question why it has gone so badly especially when you consider hes been around the squad for 2 years.

Injuries have played a part.

 

[Voice from the Braemar]

i just hope he learns from that appaling first half and that this is the break he needs......the 2nd half showed that we can compete against the top teams in the division but only if sawyers is on form as he did last night when he dominated that middle for the last 30mins......i really hope we can carry on v swansea as the confidence must have grown a bit hopefully............one thing though, can we fkin leave someone up from the oppos corners purleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese
the jurys still out but its given TF a bit of time and a win saturday will do his cause no harm at all

 

[JCMcBee]

I saw enough effort last night to tell me that he hasn’t lost the dressing room.

I saw enough bad defending to tell me that there’s a lot of work to be done.

....think everybody saw the players are together...thats the important thing...regardless of TF.....konsa and mepham are still in their nappies...lest we forget.

 

[Vid]

. Our smaller players were marking man to man to stop their big players from getting a free run/free header of the ball.Their big attackers don’t have the same luxury of a free run at the ball because our smaller are tracking them and providing physical contact to block their runs and stop them getting a clear run to attack the ball.
.

It's annoying that their goal was scored after Gayle dragged Konsa to the ground.

 

[Guildford Bee]

It's annoying that their goal was scored after Gayle dragged Konsa to the ground.

It is though it was definitely a foul throw that started the move for ours so swings and roundabouts...

 

[Castleview]

It is though it was definitely a foul throw that started the move for ours so swings and roundabouts...

Hardly comparable. Shoving a defender to the floor has a far greater impact than a foul throw.

 

[Gee Bee]

Hardly comparable. Shoving a defender to the floor has a far greater impact than a foul throw.

They both are fouls that ended in goals which is the same impact.

 

[RoyBee]

Hardly comparable. Shoving a defender to the floor has a far greater impact than a foul throw.

I don't even see what the point of a foul throw is. It's hardly gaining an advantage. Bit of a pointless rule.

As Voice mentioned earlier, we must leave someone up for oppo corners. An absolute no brainer.

 

[ruislip bee]

I don't even see what the point of a foul throw is. It's hardly gaining an advantage. Bit of a pointless rule.

As Voice mentioned earlier, we must leave someone up for oppo corners. An absolute no brainer.

I used to love the Warburton approach. Leave 3 up. It really confused the opposition when we first started to do it.

 

[whyteleafebee76]

I used to love the Warburton approach. Leave 3 up. It really confused the opposition when we first started to do it.

Yep and invariably it meant teams left 3 or even 4 back to defend against it.

 

[Frothybaby]

I used to love the Warburton approach. Leave 3 up. It really confused the opposition when we first started to do it.

I did see a quote at one point in the first Championship season, that we had scored 3 from defending corners. That was equalling how many we had scored from attacking corners at the time!

 

[Griffingreen]

Yep and invariably it meant teams left 3 or even 4 back to defend against it.

Which would be a good thing atm as we often get overwhelmed by height with corners.

 

[sonofabee]

I used to love the Warburton approach. Leave 3 up. It really confused the opposition when we first started to do it.

Leaving Gray up meant the other team had to leave at least two defenders back

 

[Guildford Bee]

I used to love the Warburton approach. Leave 3 up. It really confused the opposition when we first started to do it.

Yes although we exposed the obvious flaw in that approach with Egan's goal against Forest last season. If that many players are left up, it's easy to overload them from a short corner.

 

[Bigbee]

They both are fouls that ended in goals which is the same impact.

no , one was a technical error , the other was a shove on a defender that stopped our play , totally different

 

[Voice from the Braemar]

its one of the most basic things in football...leave your forward up for the oppo corner and they HAVE to leave 2 back....its a minimum requirement.....why do we still persist with this everyone back when all you see is the ball coming back after we clear it ???? its proper madness when im manager things will change lol

 

[jlove]

I used to love the Warburton approach. Leave 3 up. It really confused the opposition when we first started to do it.

Yes... and don't do any defensive coaching... that confused them, too.

 

[wanderer paul]

They both are fouls that ended in goals which is the same impact.

Would VAR gone all the way back to the throw on though?! :shrug:

The push on Konsa made a bigger impact, for their goal, and was partly responsible for conceding it, as Konsa was going to cover that area.....

 

[BlueJayBee]

Would VAR gone all the way back to the throw on though?! :shrug:

The push on Konsa made a bigger impact, for their goal, and was partly responsible for conceding it, as Konsa was going to cover that area.....

Almost certainly not.

 

[jlove]

Perhaps the only relevance to Thomas Frank is that Saïd and the other wide attackers should get some throw-in coaching... and maybe some acting lessons for centre backs who get pushed over to ensure the officials see it.

 

[sonofabee]

Perhaps the only relevance to Thomas Frank is that Saïd and the other wide attackers should get some throw-in coaching... and maybe some acting lessons for centre backs who get pushed over to ensure the officials see it.

Henrik is the worst offender, every throw in is illegal

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Henrik is the worst offender, every throw in is illegal

So obvious as well, think he has only been pulled up 2/3 times for it.

 

[Gee Bee]

no , one was a technical error , the other was a shove on a defender that stopped our play , totally different

Its in the name "foul throw" if given the ball is back with the opposition just like any foul given. Both "fouls" led to a goal because the ref and the assistant didn't give them.

 

[Castleview]

They both are fouls that ended in goals which is the same impact.

A foul throw or a legal one would have ended with our goal. If Konsa wasn't hurled to the floor he'd have been in a position to prevent theirs.

 

[Gee Bee]

A foul throw or a legal one would have ended with our goal. If Konsa wasn't hurled to the floor he'd have been in a position to prevent theirs.

Well we will never know that would we.
If WBA defender hadn’t let McCleod drift in he probably wouldn’t have scored and so could have prevented it albeit without a foul. It’s all hyperthetical

 

[Norfolk Bee]

As documented Boro's second goal courtesy of a foul throw. A consistency of sorts.