Unlearned Lessons

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North London Bee

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Unlearned Lessons

The MW mantra is invariably

We must be more clinical

We must take better care of the ball

We have to eliminate careless errors.

Well today we were only guilty of two people f the three as we really didn't create too many chances to waste!

Can anyone else please list all the daft goals we have conceded through either overplaying at the back or losing the ball directly from our own possession.

Overplaying

Norwich first goal
Fulham at home
Ipswich first goal at home
Sheffield Wed away
Second goal today

Normal Defensive cockups

Charlton home -Burtton flap
Birmingham home Craig trip
Millwall away. Button flap
Ipswich home goals two and three Craig and Dean errors
Middlesbrough home Dean missing long ball
Charlton third goal. Dean missing keeper kick
Birmingham away. Dallas and Tarkowski error
Ipswich away. Moore error
Cardiff home both goals. Dean and Button respectively
Blackburn long ball for first goal
Millwall. Ball watching first goal
Forest. Tarkowski for first goal
Today Diagouraga for first goal
 

Unlearned Lessons

For balance, can you list all goals we have scored creating something from nothing with the Warburton style of play ?
 

Unlearned Lessons

Best information is when any mistake or flash of brilliance has resulted in a change of points i.e. Jotas fab goal against Fulham did not effect the points
 

Unlearned Lessons

Didn't Harlee slip for the goal at home against Fulham? Hardly overplaying?
 

Unlearned Lessons

I think the unforced errors are part and parcel of our style of play. As frustrating as it is, I'd take it any day over long hopeful hoofs and just playing percentage football.
 

Unlearned Lessons

paulmaddy said:
I think the unforced errors are part and parcel of our style of play. As frustrating as it is, I'd take it any day over long hopeful hoofs and just playing percentage football.
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Agreed but there has been far too many of them, Muff and other teams have a go at all out attacking football without defenders turning to jelly when attacked, I'm sure we can and will too but not this season.
 

Unlearned Lessons

paulmaddy said:
I think the unforced errors are part and parcel of our style of play. As frustrating as it is, I'd take it any day over long hopeful hoofs and just playing percentage football.
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I wish we didn't play percentage defending, though.
 

Unlearned Lessons

paulmaddy said:
I think the unforced errors are part and parcel of our style of play. As frustrating as it is, I'd take it any day over long hopeful hoofs and just playing percentage football.
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The trick is to play football when it's on and not to take risks in defensive situations. So you need to incorporate percentage stuff too. We don't which is why we leak or give away so many goals.
 

Unlearned Lessons

So we can learn from this.....Bloopers tape?

considering the ridiculous goals we have given away this season I would love to see someone create a "bloopers tape" of them so "We will learn from this" - it might be horror viewing at the moment but in 12 months time when we have wrapped up the championship title it could be quite funny!

Come on Themepark! what else will you be doing mate?

Or maybe "the best of Pritch" or "50 shanks of Gray"?

What other tapes could we put together? Warbs saying "We will learn from this" followed by exactly the same scenario the following game?
 

Unlearned Lessons

Not saying that we've necessarily got the required personnel to do it quite right yet, and it might result in the odd howler, but these days.....

This. Is. How. We. Play.
 

Unlearned Lessons

Add to the mix - we have scored more goals in the last ten minutes of games than any other team in the league, then make your own decision as to whether a reason for this could be the other team has been run ragged all game by the continual chasing and movement needed by them to re-adjust their shape as we move the ball across the back five.

Are people really craving the days of Brentford keepers and centre halves lumping the ball onto Steve Blatherwick's and Ian Evatt's head week after week after week after week?
 

Unlearned Lessons

difford said:
Add to the mix - we have scored more goals in the last ten minutes of games than any other team in the league, then make your own decision as to whether a reason for this could be the other team has been run ragged all game by the continual chasing and movement needed by them to re-adjust their shape as we move the ball across the back five.

Are people really craving the days of Brentford keepers and centre halves lumping the ball onto Steve Blatherwick's and Ian Evatt's head week after week after week after week?
Click to expand...

Good point, love the way we play but basic errors like yesterday should not be an acceptable by product?
The other point is yesterday in final 10 we took off the one forward we had to replace him with Smith who went wide and did exactly what we used to do by lumping balls up to Harlee?
 

Unlearned Lessons

Some of the football we have played this season has been a complete delight. At times though, when things haven't gone well, we have been assured by The Breadman that "Lessons will be learned".

It's a pity that it's opposition managers and players who appear to have learned most - especially about how we play out from the back. It's also a pity that we have a complete lack of any plan B. Or more striking options.
 

Unlearned Lessons

badgerbee said:
Not saying that we've necessarily got the required personnel to do it quite right yet, and it might result in the odd howler, but these days.....

This. Is. How. We. Play.
Click to expand...

But, unfortunately, it looks like this is about to come to an end. More Chelsea than Arsenal next year if one believes what is between the lines of some of the more ITK posters on here. :sad:
 

Unlearned Lessons

sonofabee said:
The other point is yesterday in final 10 we took off the one forward we had to replace him with Smith who went wide and did exactly what we used to do by lumping balls up to Harlee?
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I agree that was bizarre but as it didnt work sort off backs up the reason for playing out.

The odd howler is inevitable with our way of play and when it happens it will look catastrophic - Liverpool lost the title last year trying to move Chelsea around by going across the back under pressure when Gerrard slipped. I would be more worried about the goals we have shipped when the shape wasn't quite right than the slips and errors - inidividual errors happen - the really good teams cover those. All goals come from a loss of possession unless you concede direct from kick off - to merely look at who lost possession is pointless - it happens a lot in the game, you need to also look at the shape of the team when possession was lost. The second goal yesterday began with Button taking a goal kick and Toumani needing a touch too many to contol it - Tarks was not wide enough to be in a position to clear on his right foot when he received hence back to Button when it was too tight. The rest looked bad but there was more too it than one error. Learning from that is more than a quick fix of "next time Butts smash it long from the goal kick or we will put young Jack in for a few games."
 

Unlearned Lessons

difford said:
I agree that was bizarre but as it didnt work sort off backs up the reason for playing out.

The odd howler is inevitable with our way of play and when it happens it will look catastrophic - Liverpool lost the title last year trying to move Chelsea around by going across the back under pressure when Gerrard slipped. I would be more worried about the goals we have shipped when the shape wasn't quite right than the slips and errors - inidividual errors happen - the really good teams cover those. All goals come from a loss of possession unless you concede direct from kick off - to merely look at who lost possession is pointless - it happens a lot in the game, you need to also look at the shape of the team when possession was lost. The second goal yesterday began with Button taking a goal kick and Toumani needing a touch too many to contol it - Tarks was not wide enough to be in a position to clear on his right foot when he received hence back to Button when it was too tight. The rest looked bad but there was more too it than one error. Learning from that is more than a quick fix of "next time Butts smash it long from the goal kick or we will put young Jack in for a few games."
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No argument at all, once again naive defending did for us and all I would add is as I keep banging on about we lack leadership and communication. We only had to manage the game and close it out yesterday as was the case with Cardiff.
I honestly believe last season we had the right blend of youth and experience with the likes of TC and Macca who influenced games that we missed the season before when we missed out.
We should have done exactly the same this year and my understanding is that we had an experienced International left sided centre back ready to join in Jan but the DOF and Warbs decided against?
We can still play great football and we will be punished no doubt on occasions chasing games (Norwich and Boro away spring to mind) but we have to cut out totally un necessary unforced errors and better communication will quickly reduce the number of occasions.
 

Unlearned Lessons

We did the same thing away at Swindon last season....trying silly little passes at the back...then panicking between each other...it might not look good but I would rather see my player hoof it into the stands.
Players must know by now that they are going to get themselves into the sh*t, if by 3 passes at the back in close proximity that the ball is going nowhere...What have we learned not a lot.
 

Unlearned Lessons

IslandBee said:
But, unfortunately, it looks like this is about to come to an end. More Chelsea than Arsenal next year if one believes what is between the lines of some of the more ITK posters on here. :sad:
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I've not seen that suggested anywhere :confused:
 

Unlearned Lessons

IslandBee said:
But, unfortunately, it looks like this is about to come to an end. More Chelsea than Arsenal next year if one believes what is between the lines of some of the more ITK posters on here. :sad:
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From the ITK people that I speak to I would suggest the plan is to play very much the same way but perhaps have a plan B when plan A is not working
 

Unlearned Lessons

IslandBee said:
But, unfortunately, it looks like this is about to come to an end. More Chelsea than Arsenal next year if one believes what is between the lines of some of the more ITK posters on here. :sad:
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Nobody knows who the manager will be so how can anyone know that?
 

Unlearned Lessons

The Pipe said:
From the ITK people that I speak to I would suggest the plan is to play very much the same way but perhaps have a plan B when plan A is not working
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I sincerely hope you are right!!
 

Unlearned Lessons

Les Beeavinu said:
Nobody knows who the manager will be so how can anyone know that?
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Wouldn't ideas about the playing style affect the decision over who the manager should be? But, great, if there is still a chance that our playing style will be tweaked rather than fundamentally re-thought next year, I am absolutely delighted.
 

Unlearned Lessons

Owlsmoor_Bee said:
I've not seen that suggested anywhere :confused:
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There seemed to be quite strong indications of this in the thread started by North London Bee after the Wednesday game. I would be more than happy though if I was reading too much into some of the comments made there.
 

Unlearned Lessons

IslandBee said:
Wouldn't ideas about the playing style affect the decision over who the manager should be? But, great, if there is still a chance that our playing style will be tweaked rather than fundamentally re-thought next year, I am absolutely delighted.
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To my knowledge, there has never been any indication from anyone that the playing style will be subject to wholesale change. Where have you picked that up from ?

Edit: Just seen your post above. AFAIK, it is the wish of everyone at the club, from the owner down, to play the expansive attacking football we've seen this season. What if requires is minor tweaking to negate some of the deficiencies and perhaps an alternative to enable us to adapt to different opposition and scenarios.
 

Unlearned Lessons

Well I for one am pissed off at errors that six year old kids make on a Saturday morning. This new management business has ****ed up our season. along with the customary keystone cops errors that creep in to nearly all of our games. We were winning the game , sometimes you wallop the ball up field to protect the three points . Suicide. And has been said we simply never learn. We were not good enough fot the top six, premature I know. Will we be good enough next season? I have my doubts. But for the first time, after the game I thought the sooner we get a new manager in the better. A great season that once again has been truly ****ed up
 

Unlearned Lessons

IslandBee said:
Wouldn't ideas about the playing style affect the decision over who the manager should be? But, great, if there is still a chance that our playing style will be tweaked rather than fundamentally re-thought next year, I am absolutely delighted.
Click to expand...

I think you will find that MB's philosophy on football has been quoted since day one, he wanted pure football from the "Under Whatevers" to the first team and tried to install that into Andy Scott;), now that was mission bloody impossible but joking aside, it was MB's desire for the style that has led to managers who believe it too coming to GP. I don't think you have any worries on that one.
 

Unlearned Lessons

NorthamptonBee said:
I think you will find that MB's philosophy on football has been quoted since day one, he wanted pure football from the "Under Whatevers" to the first team and tried to install that into Andy Scott;), now that was mission bloody impossible but joking aside, it was MB's desire for the style that has led to managers who believe it too coming to GP. I don't think you have any worries on that one.
Click to expand...

Given the number of goals they've scored, I wouldn't rule out Karl Robinson as our next manager. Stranger things have happened.
 

Unlearned Lessons

I'm not sure it's a simple either/ or between playing out from the back or lumping it aimlessly up front.

We have courted disaster on many occasions playing it out to closely marked defenders - but got away with it. We don't need to take these risks. Sometimes it's appropriate to play around on the edge of the area but sometimes it's a huge risk - and not a risk that the top teams usually take.
 

Unlearned Lessons

BRbee said:
I'm not sure it's a simple either/ or between playing out from the back or lumping it aimlessly up front.

We have courted disaster on many occasions playing it out to closely marked defenders - but got away with it. We don't need to take these risks. Sometimes it's appropriate to play around on the edge of the area but sometimes it's a huge risk - and not a risk that the top teams usually take.
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Spot on. 'That's how we play' isn't enough of an excuse.
 

Unlearned Lessons

Some really odd things have been said in the period since January which really bemuse me as MW is a very clever guy ,
Long is injured , oh no he is not he is back at Everton scoring in the reserves
We recall the lad from Rochdale then do not play him, bet they and he love that
McCleod has a big part to play in the run-in oh yeh
Its a squad game and everyone will be needed before the season is over
Players like Tebar are pushing for a start - hard to keep everyone happy
etc etc
Ah well onto Reading where I will be looking after my pint and using lessons I have learnt e.g. eat something substantial beforehand
 

Unlearned Lessons

difford said:
Add to the mix - we have scored more goals in the last ten minutes of games than any other team in the league, then make your own decision as to whether a reason for this could be the other team has been run ragged all game by the continual chasing and movement needed by them to re-adjust their shape as we move the ball across the back five.

Are people really craving the days of Brentford keepers and centre halves lumping the ball onto Steve Blatherwick's and Ian Evatt's head week after week after week after week?
Click to expand...

Giving away a 2nd goal like we did to bolton, and the many other blunders at this standard are just not good enough. and once again Button cost us. If I did not know any better I would swear that he was throwing the game. But I do know better cos I am used to him almost giving me a heart attack at most home games. There is no excuse for errors like that. Warbs needs to shout into his ear, he clearly does not learn from his mistakes. Sorry if that upsets the conformists on this board , but they are the facts why we will be playing championship football next season. Yes a good season, but not good enough.
 

Unlearned Lessons

I blame the manager as it was obvious from the day of Hogan's injury that Gray, whilst adapting very well to Championship football, needed at least one more forward to help him/replace him when he tired during a game.

Come January and all around us signed fresh forwards and we signed..Long. Nothing against the lad but that is what he is, a lad, and we needed an experienced forward. Now he is injured or whatever we have no real centre forward to replace Gray - Smith is obviously not the answer as we all know.

Corners and long goal kicks are a waste because we have no forward tall enough to win the ball in the air (Gray and Pritch may make a token effort but nothing more).

Warbs stated 'Plan B is to do Plan A but better'. A smart reply which actually means he has no Plan B and we have suffered for that.

Teams have found out our Plan A and this has resulted in us being closed down from their front line which means a wasted long boot from Button.

Although 'a squad game' Warbs names the same team and subs, fitness permitting.

Also, signing extended contracts by certain players is good for them but they are not, in my opinion, top Championship players and that is where MB wants us to be.

The lowest we can finish is 8th which we all would have been delighted with 12 months ago but our decline since January means the season will end on a dismal note as so much better could have been achieved.
 

Unlearned Lessons

This guy makes a few howlers in goal too.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvKU1BRkJmw
Wouldn't mind him at GP though. Mainly so the New Road could moan about the silly chump not staying on his line and thinking he was an outfield player all the time.

Yes we would love to see us cut out the execution errors, but there is nothing wrong with the game plan in my opinion, and if the current starting eleven didn't make the odd error they wouldn't be here as they have proved themselves to be good enough to be top ten championship players even with their propensity to the odd error.
 

Unlearned Lessons

NorthamptonBee said:
I think you will find that MB's philosophy on football has been quoted since day one, he wanted pure football ... it was MB's desire for the style that has led to managers who believe it too coming to GP.
Click to expand...

How did Rosler get the job, then?!
 

Unlearned Lessons

scruff puppy pup said:
I wouldn't rule out Karl Robinson as our next manager.
Click to expand...

That's the most depressing thing any football supporter should ever have to read.

I'd just hope the decision would be announced before season tickets went on sale - at least I could find something else to spend my money on!
 

Unlearned Lessons

As I understand it we are talking to a Spaniard a German and a Dutchman plus Zola whether that's as coach or DoF not sure but would be inordinately surprised if our Karl rocked up anytime soon
 

Unlearned Lessons

HertfordBee said:
That's the most depressing thing any football supporter should ever have to read.

I'd just hope the decision would be announced before season tickets went on sale - at least I could find something else to spend my money on!
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What's depressing about scoring 90 goals with still three league games remaining, with a goal difference of +49? Similar record to Eddie Howe at Bournemouth.
I'm not advocating Karl Robinson as our next manager, but if you recall Matthew Benham's webchat on here, he was complimentary about Robinson.

And regards Rosler's appointment: he was an unknown, he got the job on the basis of talking a good interview.
 

Unlearned Lessons

The Pipe said:
As I understand it we are talking to a Spaniard a German and a Dutchman plus Zola whether that's as coach or DoF not sure but would be inordinately surprised if our Karl rocked up anytime soon
Click to expand...
Rumour has it they had a meeting in a bar!
 

Unlearned Lessons

The Pipe said:
As I understand it we are talking to a Spaniard a German and a Dutchman plus Zola whether that's as coach or DoF not sure but would be inordinately surprised if our Karl rocked up anytime soon
Click to expand...

A Spaniard, a German, a Dutchman, an Italian and an Englishman tried to get into the sponsors lounge yesterday.... refused admission as they didn't have a Thai.

I'll get my coat....
 

Unlearned Lessons

RodBee said:
I blame the manager as it was obvious from the day of Hogan's injury that Gray, whilst adapting very well to Championship football, needed at least one more forward to help him/replace him when he tired during a game.

Come January and all around us signed fresh forwards and we signed..Long. Nothing against the lad but that is what he is, a lad, and we needed an experienced forward. Now he is injured or whatever we have no real centre forward to replace Gray - Smith is obviously not the answer as we all know.

Corners and long goal kicks are a waste because we have no forward tall enough to win the ball in the air (Gray and Pritch may make a token effort but nothing more).

Warbs stated 'Plan B is to do Plan A but better'. A smart reply which actually means he has no Plan B and we have suffered for that.

Teams have found out our Plan A and this has resulted in us being closed down from their front line which means a wasted long boot from Button.

Although 'a squad game' Warbs names the same team and subs, fitness permitting.

Also, signing extended contracts by certain players is good for them but they are not, in my opinion, top Championship players and that is where MB wants us to be.

The lowest we can finish is 8th which we all would have been delighted with 12 months ago but our decline since January means the season will end on a dismal note as so much better could have been achieved.
Click to expand...

Spot on Rodbee
 
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