Video Assistant Referees

[Brentford 4 Life]

A good article on this topical matter:

https://www.standamf.com/2018/01/08/video-assistant-referees-shifting-error-making-process/

 

[Stanley]

I thought the Brighton winning gaol was a good example of why VAR may not work. You could look at the replay a dozen times and still not be sure if their player had hand balled it or not.

 

[opinions5u]

I thought the Brighton winning gaol was a good example of why VAR may not work. You could look at the replay a dozen times and still not be sure if their player had hand balled it or not.

A one minute delay and you go with the onfield decision if doubt remains.

 

[Brentford 4 Life]

I thought the Brighton winning gaol was a good example of why VAR may not work. You could look at the replay a dozen times and still not be sure if their player had hand balled it or not.

The assumption is that this technology will answer the current problems, but the article shows why that is not the case, many pundits are calling for it but it’s not as straightforward as they think.

 

[Gee Bee]

A one minute delay and you go with the onfield decision if doubt remains.

And if the defender had handled ball cleared and counter attack in play when does a ref stop play to see if there was a handball and penalty?

 

[Paul O'Brien]

I thought the Brighton winning gaol was a good example of why VAR may not work. You could look at the replay a dozen times and still not be sure if their player had hand balled it or not.

Arguably though, it did work. The idea is that they only identify times when a decision is clearly wrong (or something like that). If it's uncertain, the game carries on. Looks like Hodgson was happy afterwards. This big talking point seems to be more abou keeping the crowd up to date with what's happening.

 

[Mr Tree]

always said it's a terrible terrible idea, still totally unconvinced by it. there were 2 or 3 incidents from the last round of Prem matches where the commentators watched the slow-motion and said "see, that's not a penalty for me" (or similar) and I found myself totally disagreeing with them. so it "proves" nothing.

 

[jlove]

always said it's a terrible terrible idea, still totally unconvinced by it. there were 2 or 3 incidents from the last round of Prem matches where the commentators watched the slow-motion and said "see, that's not a penalty for me" (or similar) and I found myself totally disagreeing with them. so it "proves" nothing.

The use is for where a decision is "clearly wrong", not where it is open to interpretation in the way you describe, where the referee has full responsibility.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I was lucky enough to get in a circle with MA and MB pre the Forest game this season, this was discussed and MA wanted to know my thoughts, I said it would seriously mess up journeys to and from games if we had no hard luck stories or got away with moments to go over. I like the goal line technology and we need to get rid of the odd outrageous ref or lino errors so I’m open minded on it, I just hope it doesn’t sterilise the whole thing.

 

[Mr Tree]

The use is for where a decision is "clearly wrong", not where it is open to interpretation in the way you describe, where the referee has full responsibility.

believe it when i see it

 

[Stanley]

Arguably though, it did work. The idea is that they only identify times when a decision is clearly wrong (or something like that). If it's uncertain, the game carries on. Looks like Hodgson was happy afterwards. This big talking point seems to be more abou keeping the crowd up to date with what's happening.

Trouble is I think what is "clearly wrong" is subjective in itself. Hodgson was gracious in defeat and about the goal but that is his character, had it been another manager like a Warnock, Moyes or that whingeing new Swansea manager it might have been a different reaction?

 

[SpiderBee]

Should be in use tonight.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

I bloody hate it. Takes all debate out of the game. Goal line tech is a massive yes from me but VAR is too much,

 

[Brentford Bob]

It's sh*t. You can't have it in the Bristol City game because they don't have the tech available.... yet the other semi final uses it.

It was used on two penalty decisions tonight.... both right, but the ref had to wait until the ball had gone dead for the second one and then consulted the VAR.... Arsenal could have gone and scored in the meantime...then what?

 

[Banana]

It's sh*t. You can't have it in the Bristol City game because they don't have the tech available.... yet the other semi final uses it.

It was used on two penalty decisions tonight.... both right, but the ref had to wait until the ball had gone dead for the second one and then consulted the VAR.... Arsenal could have gone and scored in the meantime...then what?

Given he got them correct then there would have been no change. Not sure what happens if he gets the "whoops" message in his ear though? Does he stop the game with a live ball and re-start with a dropped on?

One thing I am having difficulty with preventing myself throwing things at the TV is the typical sheer bloodymindedness from Sky pundits of how sh*t it will be.

 

[Brentford Bob]

Given he got them correct then there would have been no change. Not sure what happens if he gets the "whoops" message in his ear though? Does he stop the game with a live ball and re-start with a dropped on?

One thing I am having difficulty with preventing myself throwing things at the TV is the typical sheer bloodymindedness from Sky pundits of how sh*t it will be.

Yet the Sky commentators seem (or are being told to seem) to love the concept.

 

[WarrenBee]

This is the start of a slippery slope, in the next 15-20 years every game will be stopped every 5-10 minutes to review everything.

 

[SpiderBee]

This is the start of a slippery slope, in the next 15-20 years every game will be stopped every 5-10 minutes to review everything.

Not the games I watch.

 

[Brentford Bob]

I guess it's like all changes - we'll get used to them in time, but I feel that a tiny, tiny part of the game has died this week.

It's a bit like the back pass rule. We all got used to it eventually - apart from Graham Benstead.

 

[Nada Bee]

I’m not aware of the current rules on it but it should be similar to cricket. 1 review per captain. If it’s wrong. You lose it.

 

[ruislip bee]

This is the start of a slippery slope, in the next 15-20 years every game will be stopped every 5-10 minutes to review everything.

And the clock will be stopped every time the ball goes out of play.

 

[nocoat]

I’m not aware of the current rules on it but it should be similar to cricket. 1 review per captain. If it’s wrong. You lose it.

Good idea

 

[Jezybee]

Good idea

Football and Cricket captaincy are very different responsibilities. I would suggest more similar to NFL where the coach makes the referral.

Would we be the first club to hire a specific VAR challenge coach / analyst with responsibility for making stats based decisions on whether to use the referral or not depending on: nature of the challenge (historical % success of being overturned etc), time in the game, pattern of play (have we just been under pressure for 5 mins straight), etc etc.

Maybe over thinking it

 

[brentfordwannabee]

Conte did annoy me tonight waving his arms around wanting a review for a penalty claim that was quite rightly waved away.

Isn't that the same action as an on field player mouthing off / going on at the ref?

So could he end up getting sent to the stands If he complains incorrectly?

It should be the refs call and theirs alone as to when it is used.

 

[red_and_white]

I was at the Chelsea vs Arsenal game tonight and i have to say no one knew what was going on - there was no obvious signal to the paying fan. There were no replays on the big screen - we only found out after that VAR was going on. From where we were it just look like the ref just had his hand on his ear for what felt like an eternity. For a TV audience it's probably more theatrical - for live football watchers like most of us, it dampens things.

Got back to hear praise for it on Skysports news. I thought it would be a good thing for football, but have to say from going to the game, it genuinely did make an already poor spectacle even worse.

 

[Mr Tree]

The use is for where a decision is "clearly wrong", not where it is open to interpretation in the way you describe, where the referee has full responsibility.

It was used on two penalty decisions tonight

jlove, you said it wouldn't be?

 

[jlove]

jlove, you said it wouldn't be?

I didn't say it wouldn't be used for penalties?

Mike Riley: "The VAR is not there to sanitise the game, it's to prevent clear errors. It can add value." I didn't watch that game (in fact, I still don't know the result), so I don't know how it was actually used.

 

[Mr Tree]

I didn't say it wouldn't be used for penalties?

Mike Riley: "The VAR is not there to sanitise the game, it's to prevent clear errors. It can add value." I didn't watch that game (in fact, I still don't know the result), so I don't know how it was actually used.

i gave an example, you slapped it down. and yet, it seems that's the way it'll go. politician's words from Riley - remains to be seen, but colour me skeptical.

 

[Stanley]

Conte did annoy me tonight waving his arms around wanting a review for a penalty claim that was quite rightly waved away.

Isn't that the same action as an on field player mouthing off / going on at the ref?

So could he end up getting sent to the stands If he complains incorrectly?

It should be the refs call and theirs alone as to when it is used.

This is one of the big fears that the theatrical managers , and there are plenty of them about, will be demanding a review for every decision that does not go their way.

 

[jlove]

i gave an example, you slapped it down. and yet, it seems that's the way it'll go. politician's words from Riley - remains to be seen, but colour me skeptical.

You're right to be sceptical, I don't think it has been worked out yet but every time I hear referees (or ex-referees) they will use the word "clear". I'm guessing, in this case, the match referee asked the VAR for specific information following a penalty appeal. I'm sure it will run and run, though.

 

[Judio1999]

No way should any manager be given a challenge.

You can just picture it now.
One team is going up the field with a clear break
So the other manager goes for a challenge just so that this attack gets stopped

 

[malvernbee]

Can I be the first to sympathise with the VAR ref who makes the first big wrong call. Not that half the country are on their back, That when stressed about the decision they take a wrong turning out of Stockley Park & end up in West Drayton.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Goal line tech is defo worth it, but these VAR I'm not so sure on, how far can they go back, plus last night Chelsea got a corner last 5 minutes, momentum was with them, ref paused the game as was reviewing a possible penalty that happened minute or so before.....

Thats the real killer, is killing momentum. Also how many minutes could be added on at the end.

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

Really not a fan and now you have players calling for it and managers. Taking the fun out of football.

 

[WarrenBee]

Mark my words, this is the begining of the end of the beautiful game!

 

[GP200]

Mark my words, this is the begining of the end of the beautiful game!

...............the beginning of the end was Sky's money............

 

[BURFORD BEE]

And the clock will be stopped every time the ball goes out of play.

Plus official time outs

 

[NorthamptonBee]

So every dive deserves a VAR check as the players all appeal for one, surely any player asking for one gets a yellow, stop it early.

 

[romt]

I’m for VAR, I think we are yet to see a situation where it can actually be effectively used. Last night in the Chelsea v Norwich example with the Willian dive, the ref had a clear view and made his decision (one I agree with). The VAR can only suggest a change in decision if there is clear evidence or if the red has missed something. I think the bigger problem isn’t lack of consistency or understanding of the rules from pundits. Yes there was contact, but it doesn’t make it a foul. I think pundits and commentators are actually very poor when it comes to their reading of the game and knowledge of the rules, especially when considering they are paid to be experts. Until we see a decision given by the VAR that the ref has missed completely people will continue to view it as pointless.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I just hope we get to a point very quickly where it's not mentioned every 2 minutes during a football match. Sadly, on first evidence my original fears may be realised.

 

[Nada Bee]

They really need to bring in the 2 reviews per captain per game, with a 5 second window to appeal it.

Having the ball potentially go up the other end, the other team scoring, then it being brought back, reviewed, it was a penalty etc. is just not right.

 

[The Pipe]

I’m for VAR, I think we are yet to see a situation where it can actually be effectively used. Last night in the Chelsea v Norwich example with the Willian dive, the ref had a clear view and made his decision (one I agree with). The VAR can only suggest a change in decision if there is clear evidence or if the red has missed something. I think the bigger problem isn’t lack of consistency or understanding of the rules from pundits. Yes there was contact, but it doesn’t make it a foul. I think pundits and commentators are actually very poor when it comes to their reading of the game and knowledge of the rules, especially when considering they are paid to be experts. Until we see a decision given by the VAR that the ref has missed completely people will continue to view it as pointless.

Whilst happy with goal line technology as it does not require any interpretation the problem with VAR is that, not only does it slow down the game but is still something of an interpretation by the panel, and we have seen from various games over the years that “ experts” often do not agree!!

Over time I can see the refs referring more and more decisions,as happens in cricket, rather than making a decision at the time.

I have no doubt it is here for ever but worry that it is the start of a very slippery slope

 

[Bangor Bee]

The criteria for VAR were explained before the match on TV last night, and they're quite strict. We've already seen that it can eliminate mistakes on offside decisions. Last night's incident was bizarre -- although Willian jumped a little as the challenge came in, it was a stonewall penalty: defender was nowhere near the ball and later admitted that he had clipped Willian. Clearly there will still be controversies with VAR, especially if there is a reluctance to overrule clearly poor decisions. Nevertheless, I think it will eliminate many of the worst decisions and interrupt the flow of the game less than injuries and probably less than time wasting.

 

[Stanley]

The criteria for VAR were explained before the match on TV last night, and they're quite strict. We've already seen that it can eliminate mistakes on offside decisions. Last night's incident was bizarre -- although Willian jumped a little as the challenge came in, it was a stonewall penalty: defender was nowhere near the ball and later admitted that he had clipped Willian. Clearly there will still be controversies with VAR, especially if there is a reluctance to overrule clearly poor decisions. Nevertheless, I think it will eliminate many of the worst decisions and interrupt the flow of the game less than injuries and probably less than time wasting.

Players are very clever these days and leave a leg or foot out to trip over an opponents outstretched leg on purpose. I thought William might have done this and maybe why the VAR ref did not give it. Just shows that anything other than a clear cut and dried decision is no good for VAR.

Broadcasters will love it as they can pour over more post match analysis and headlines to fill up their 24 hour channels and online click bait sites.

 

[Bombus Bombus]

No more VAR for me. Let the ref decide and if he gets things wrong that's tough and the crowd will let him know.

 

[alikat]

I think pundits and commentators are actually very poor when it comes to their reading of the game and knowledge of the rules, especially when considering they are paid to be experts.

Especially Shearer!

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Goal line tech is worth it, no issues with it but this VAR is b***ocks imo

 

[Holysmit]

They really need to bring in the 2 reviews per captain per game, with a 5 second window to appeal it.

Having the ball potentially go up the other end, the other team scoring, then it being brought back, reviewed, it was a penalty etc. is just not right.

But if they do that, say the other team is breaking away, the captain will start calling for a review to stop the break.

VAR is a big NO for me.

 

[Banana]

Goal line tech is worth it, no issues with it but this VAR is b***ocks imo

At least you've let the system bed-in property before jumping to a conclusion.

 

[Idaho Bee]

I only saw the extra time last night, but VAR confirmed the referees decision on both those drives by Chelsea. Play was not interrupted but the ref did get a confirmation in his ear. This can only increase his confidence in the heat of the moment and result in better refereeing IMO.

How crap is it that Chelsea's over paid prima donnas result to cheating to win over a team a league below them. Pathetic. Excellent refereeing last night.