Wallys'
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Thomas Bathurst
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Wallys'
Dunno at the moment. It's not the mistakes I care about, as he is a rookie manager. It's not learning from them that worries me. It's also the negative style of play he seems to favour. It's the long ball crap that he seems to like to play, totally bypassing the midfield. It's also the fact that he rigidly sticks with the 4-4-2 (even though it's my personal favourite formation) without having the players to play out wide / or not using the correct players out wide (we can only play Hunt & Rowlands out wide out of our current squad in my opinion). He deserves the chance to rectify his mistakes . . . so long as he does.
Downbeat Bee
Well-known member
Wallys'
He plays it safe because he knows if we don't we'll be relegated. Unlikely to get anyone better at present.
WarrenBee
Well-known member
Wallys'
The problem that we would have if he were to leave,is who on earth else would want to come to manage us given our current state and the fact that dear old uncle Ron won't allow a single penny to be spent on strengthening our current squad.Let's be honest at the start of the season anything other relegation we would have settled for.I would stick with him for another season.
rebus
On my final warning
Wallys'
I cannot believe the results of this poll so far. A lot of people have short memories round here :mad1: :mad1:
Wallys'
I've got a long memory. I can even remember when he first started telling us we needed a striker in on loan and that was bloody months ago. Shame he didn't actually go and get one. He might have been more popular if he had.
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Wallys'
Not too often I agree unresrvedly with Mark but come on guys.....
1. Where did we expect to finish this season ?
2. Did we ever really expect to be in a position to strengthen the squad
3. Of course he has made mistakes - he is a rookie for God's sake
4. Has he been honest with us and the players - yes
5. Has he improved some of the squad - yes
6. Had he made the most of limited resourses - yes
7. Could he have done better at times - of course. see Peterborough, ridiculous team selections etc
8. Could we do better than him - no chance
9. Have we played good football - rarely but WD has given us back soem of our pride - look at some of the performances at York where we won on pure guts, Derby, Blackpool etc
10. Has he much to learn - yes. The indiscpline must end
We are beggers at the moment and we are not in aposition to choose. We are lucky that Wally has turned out to be as good as he has
1. Where did we expect to finish this season ?
2. Did we ever really expect to be in a position to strengthen the squad
3. Of course he has made mistakes - he is a rookie for God's sake
4. Has he been honest with us and the players - yes
5. Has he improved some of the squad - yes
6. Had he made the most of limited resourses - yes
7. Could he have done better at times - of course. see Peterborough, ridiculous team selections etc
8. Could we do better than him - no chance
9. Have we played good football - rarely but WD has given us back soem of our pride - look at some of the performances at York where we won on pure guts, Derby, Blackpool etc
10. Has he much to learn - yes. The indiscpline must end
We are beggers at the moment and we are not in aposition to choose. We are lucky that Wally has turned out to be as good as he has
Wallys'
For what it's worth, I agree with you and have voted for him to stay. He deserves an extended run at the job. Thats not to say that he has impressed me over the last couple of months. Far from it in fact and I hope this is just a blip as a result of a severe injury crisis rather than an unfortunate stubborn streak.
The way he has handled various situations dont reflect well on him:
a) the fining of Rowlands when others equally guilty were not treated equally
b) The way he has led people up the garden path over the striker loan situation
c) His failure to introduce resources we have (Peters) until it is far too late
d) Several examples of bizarre team selection, especially playing players out of position.
e) An apparant lack of tactical nous.
f) Firing Roberto Forzoni over an internal bust up which has never been properly explained to the paying customers.
I know you won't agree with me on this NLB and that's fine. As WarrenBee says I think we will struggle to find anybody else suitable with our resources but if he doesn't start learning from his many mistakes he will not win the fans over long term.
The way he has handled various situations dont reflect well on him:
a) the fining of Rowlands when others equally guilty were not treated equally
b) The way he has led people up the garden path over the striker loan situation
c) His failure to introduce resources we have (Peters) until it is far too late
d) Several examples of bizarre team selection, especially playing players out of position.
e) An apparant lack of tactical nous.
f) Firing Roberto Forzoni over an internal bust up which has never been properly explained to the paying customers.
I know you won't agree with me on this NLB and that's fine. As WarrenBee says I think we will struggle to find anybody else suitable with our resources but if he doesn't start learning from his many mistakes he will not win the fans over long term.
Burno
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Wallys'
Sounds like a mutual admiration society but I do agree with you.
He has done a better job than any of us expected or we could possibly contemplate and I can see no way that we could do better with an outside candidate - don't know enough about Gary Thompson's spell at Bristol Rovers.
He has as we both and other GPG'ers have pointed out made any number of mistakes - as he has equally got many, many things right.
The question is assuming we stay up and despite the 6 point euphoria of a fortnight ago I still believe that our depleted, knackered, dispirited squad will stay up on the lack of achievement of our relegation rivals rather than our own efforts, will he learn from this season.
WD has often said that he learned much from the Sainted Steve Coppell, will he be man enough to analyse his own shortcomings of the last few months and adapt and become an ever better manager ? Only time will tell.
He has done a better job than any of us expected or we could possibly contemplate and I can see no way that we could do better with an outside candidate - don't know enough about Gary Thompson's spell at Bristol Rovers.
He has as we both and other GPG'ers have pointed out made any number of mistakes - as he has equally got many, many things right.
The question is assuming we stay up and despite the 6 point euphoria of a fortnight ago I still believe that our depleted, knackered, dispirited squad will stay up on the lack of achievement of our relegation rivals rather than our own efforts, will he learn from this season.
WD has often said that he learned much from the Sainted Steve Coppell, will he be man enough to analyse his own shortcomings of the last few months and adapt and become an ever better manager ? Only time will tell.
Trandy
Active member
Wallys'
This thread is ridiculous.
This season has been a 1000 times better than I thought it would have been. We got to the 4th round of the FA Cup for the first time in 6 years.
Get behind the man - its the least he deserves.
This season has been a 1000 times better than I thought it would have been. We got to the 4th round of the FA Cup for the first time in 6 years.
Get behind the man - its the least he deserves.
OP
OP
bees66
Well-known member
Wallys'
Trandy said:
I posted the thread due to posties having a pop at Wally.
I have not posted my choice on the poll,
Unfortuniately Trandy it's the post right how they vote.
I was just interested in there views, and as you can see the thread has upset some as i thought it would , But bringing it out in the open is all about the THREAD 'peoples views'.
NW USA Bee
formerly "Sacramento Bee"
Wallys'
Fickle, fickle, fickle
This thread truly epitomises the true fickle nature of football fans. I agree completely with Trandy, at the start of the season, no one gave us a chance and I think Wally has done wonders with what he has had to work with. Thats not to say I agree with everything he's said and done, I think that everyone would agree that we desperately need a proven goalscorer and sure tactically he may not always be on the same page. Managing a football team is a classic "rock and a hard place" situation, there will always be somone bitching and moaning and at our club we certainly have our fair share of moaners.
Wally should be given at least a 2 year contract and the confidence and backing of everyone, we cannot always be applauding, there will always be dark days and there will always be disagreement. Lets hope the brightness outshadows the darkness and the ONE thing we all have in common-the club we love-prospers and flourishes.
This thread truly epitomises the true fickle nature of football fans. I agree completely with Trandy, at the start of the season, no one gave us a chance and I think Wally has done wonders with what he has had to work with. Thats not to say I agree with everything he's said and done, I think that everyone would agree that we desperately need a proven goalscorer and sure tactically he may not always be on the same page. Managing a football team is a classic "rock and a hard place" situation, there will always be somone bitching and moaning and at our club we certainly have our fair share of moaners.
Wally should be given at least a 2 year contract and the confidence and backing of everyone, we cannot always be applauding, there will always be dark days and there will always be disagreement. Lets hope the brightness outshadows the darkness and the ONE thing we all have in common-the club we love-prospers and flourishes.
Edmundo
Whinging pom
Wallys'
I find the votes against Wally completely staggering. Without him, I think we would be bottom of the league, without a prayer of staying up. In fact we are comfortable mid table, with an injury plagued team of kids. I don't think there is another manager in the league who could have done any better and not many that would have fancied trying (Steve Coppell).
Russell
Active member
Wallys'
I remember being next to someone the day Wally took charge of his first game at Griffin Park. Lewington had disappeared and we'd just got stuffed 6-0 or so away at Swansea. Wasn't Donwes away filming with Vinnie Jones? I was singualrly unimpressed with his disappearance because of that.
Anyway, the person I sat next to was screaming "Downes Out" as WD walked along the touchline.
Can you name that person?
By the way - keep Downes. He's performed miracles so far and should be given the Freedom of Brentford if he keeps us up.
Anyway, the person I sat next to was screaming "Downes Out" as WD walked along the touchline.
Can you name that person?
By the way - keep Downes. He's performed miracles so far and should be given the Freedom of Brentford if he keeps us up.
Bigbee
Well-known member
Wallys'
hmm
Was it Gus Hurdle ? Ron ?
Hes welcome to Freedom of Brentford,he'll lose his wallet and mobile on the Green Dragon though .
I think no one has a better chance of keeping us up other than Mrs Bates.
Wally must stay
Was it Gus Hurdle ? Ron ?
Hes welcome to Freedom of Brentford,he'll lose his wallet and mobile on the Green Dragon though .
I think no one has a better chance of keeping us up other than Mrs Bates.
Wally must stay
Balders Bee
Active member
Wallys'
At the start of the season I most definately wasn't a Wally fan, my fears were increased when I watched us lose 0-1 to Darlington in the Kingstonian pre-season tournament, I sat directly behind Wally and Terry Bullivant in the stands and to say I was less than impressed by his instructions to the players and tactical nous (it was real Sunday morning park stuff).
Having said that he has proved me wrong over the course of the season in guiding a bunch of raw kids and 2nd year pro's to a mid-table position with a decent cup run. True we haven't played expansive 'total' football but until the last couple of games we've always been competitive and Wally's motivational powers have been obvious.
Where he has shown serious shortcomings is in his use of loan players as stated by JTFC and his tactical nous over the past couple of months has been iffy to say the least especially in his choice of full-backs. I for one am prepared to give him the benefit of any doubt. I have been impressed by his candid appropach and admission his errors in what is his first season as a manager. He must now prove that he can earn from these errors and go on to match his motivational skills with a better tactical appreciation of the game and players.
He deserves another 1-2 years on his contract for the job he has done thus far, it cannot be easy managing a team with a man such as Noades at the helm. I'm banking on him learning from his mastakes this season and going on to become a fondly remembered Bees manager. His hearts in the right place and hopefully the brain bit will follow
Having said that he has proved me wrong over the course of the season in guiding a bunch of raw kids and 2nd year pro's to a mid-table position with a decent cup run. True we haven't played expansive 'total' football but until the last couple of games we've always been competitive and Wally's motivational powers have been obvious.
Where he has shown serious shortcomings is in his use of loan players as stated by JTFC and his tactical nous over the past couple of months has been iffy to say the least especially in his choice of full-backs. I for one am prepared to give him the benefit of any doubt. I have been impressed by his candid appropach and admission his errors in what is his first season as a manager. He must now prove that he can earn from these errors and go on to match his motivational skills with a better tactical appreciation of the game and players.
He deserves another 1-2 years on his contract for the job he has done thus far, it cannot be easy managing a team with a man such as Noades at the helm. I'm banking on him learning from his mastakes this season and going on to become a fondly remembered Bees manager. His hearts in the right place and hopefully the brain bit will follow
West Ealing Bee
Only Reading
Wallys'
I have been very disappointed with the way he has handled the players and the team selection in recent times. The treatment of Rowlands was shocking and I find his team selection increasingly bizarre.
Having said that I do believe the way we started the season was purely down to his motivation and use of the players, I just wish he had maintained this.
I think that if he looks at the way this season has developed, and adjusts to it. If his relationship with the players and staff stays professional he could develope into a great manager, however I fear he won't.
Having said that I do believe the way we started the season was purely down to his motivation and use of the players, I just wish he had maintained this.
I think that if he looks at the way this season has developed, and adjusts to it. If his relationship with the players and staff stays professional he could develope into a great manager, however I fear he won't.
JBN
In Training
Wallys'
For fecks sake, we have no money, no ability to bring in new players, our squad was decimated at the end of last season, we have god knows what going on the board room and we are not fighting relegation.
WE ARE NOT FIGHTING RELEGATION as so many pundits thought. Wally and the team have proved them wrong, we got to the 6th round of the FA Cup, we were top of the league when everyone thought we would be bottom.
Wally may have room for improvement but for crying out loud we could have a worse season with a rookie manager, virtually no squad and no money.
Lets put a stop to all this whinging negative garbage that gets spouted, (I get enough of that sitting in D Block), Wally and the Boys need us to get to behind them now more than ever, their confidence is low.
We are Brentford SUPPORTERS so lets SUPPORT
WE ARE NOT FIGHTING RELEGATION as so many pundits thought. Wally and the team have proved them wrong, we got to the 6th round of the FA Cup, we were top of the league when everyone thought we would be bottom.
Wally may have room for improvement but for crying out loud we could have a worse season with a rookie manager, virtually no squad and no money.
Lets put a stop to all this whinging negative garbage that gets spouted, (I get enough of that sitting in D Block), Wally and the Boys need us to get to behind them now more than ever, their confidence is low.
We are Brentford SUPPORTERS so lets SUPPORT
BeeReal
Member
Wallys'
This thread is really depressing me and angers me!
No money + lost nearly a whole team that played at end of last year + built new team up with kids and freebies.
What did I expect ?..... scrapping for points and relegation.
What did Wally deliver?...... Cup heroics, mid table, and a team full of commitment. And it is that last point which is key.
Does he get everything right? No, of course not, but he IS learning and will get on a lot better than being knocked about on these type of threads.
What the **** did those, that have voted for him to go, expect???
And yes, mid table next year would also be a fantastic achievement. Times unfortunately have changed and to be a stable 2nd div club during these traumatic financial times is excellent! Let's focus on survival, promote the great work being done by the fans groups (BIAS / BU), get out the other side and then start looking highers footballing levels.
No money + lost nearly a whole team that played at end of last year + built new team up with kids and freebies.
What did I expect ?..... scrapping for points and relegation.
What did Wally deliver?...... Cup heroics, mid table, and a team full of commitment. And it is that last point which is key.
Does he get everything right? No, of course not, but he IS learning and will get on a lot better than being knocked about on these type of threads.
What the **** did those, that have voted for him to go, expect???
And yes, mid table next year would also be a fantastic achievement. Times unfortunately have changed and to be a stable 2nd div club during these traumatic financial times is excellent! Let's focus on survival, promote the great work being done by the fans groups (BIAS / BU), get out the other side and then start looking highers footballing levels.
RodBee
RodBee
Wallys'
unbelievable that some vote against Wally despite all he has done.
I was a doubter at the start, but Hey! at the start of the season we would have been overjoyed to be in our present position.
Sure he has recognised a need for a striker and perhaps his quotes have intended to get RN to agree to a loan/signing - some hpoes, we know but just a tactic, maybe?
A young, inexperienced squad who are tiring at this stage of the season but stuill a credit to Wally and his training team.
I was a doubter at the start, but Hey! at the start of the season we would have been overjoyed to be in our present position.
Sure he has recognised a need for a striker and perhaps his quotes have intended to get RN to agree to a loan/signing - some hpoes, we know but just a tactic, maybe?
A young, inexperienced squad who are tiring at this stage of the season but stuill a credit to Wally and his training team.
bigmac
Tasty, but full of crap
Wallys'
We are staying up, we had a decent FA Cup run and for a while there i was dreaming of a LDV Vans Final. Not bad considering i would have been happy finishing just above the relegation places this season. Yes he has made a few mistakes, but what rookie managers don't make them. I think he deserves another season at least just for having the balls to take the job on. No one else would have done.
New Roader
Hello
Wallys'
Wally has done a great job so far especially all the crap that has happened around him. He should carry on as manager.
The performnace on Saturday was awful but thre should not be a knee jerk reaction for the fans to want him out
The performnace on Saturday was awful but thre should not be a knee jerk reaction for the fans to want him out
JBN
In Training
Wallys'
One final point and I know it is stretching it a bit, but at the begining of the year, we were on 3 potential trips to Cardiff. The FA Cup Final, The LDV Cup Final, and the Play Off Final.
I hate Cardiff, but it gave a nice warm feeling inside when I reaslised we could be there three times this season, when the expert pundits had written any chances off. What do these self professed experts know.
We have been playing Tuesday and Saturday for more weeks than I care to remember, get behind Wally and the Boys.
I hate Cardiff, but it gave a nice warm feeling inside when I reaslised we could be there three times this season, when the expert pundits had written any chances off. What do these self professed experts know.
We have been playing Tuesday and Saturday for more weeks than I care to remember, get behind Wally and the Boys.
Baz Bee
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Wallys'
A very emotive subject!
Surely the questions to ask are:
1. Could anyone else have done any better than Wally?
2. Could Wally have done any better than Wally?
3. Can Wally take the team forward next season?
4. Do we want a Wally in charge of the team?
My answers would be:
1. Possibly;
2. Probably:
3. I'm not wholly convinced that he has the tactical nous, man management skills or positive commitment necessary. Additionally, his ability to analyse a match sufficiently as it progresses seems somewhat questionable. Therefore I'm not sure if he can achieve my aspirations; &,
4. I'm not sure we want a wally, but I'll put up with a Wally until the end of the season at least. Beyond that I'm not too sure!
Surely the questions to ask are:
1. Could anyone else have done any better than Wally?
2. Could Wally have done any better than Wally?
3. Can Wally take the team forward next season?
4. Do we want a Wally in charge of the team?
My answers would be:
1. Possibly;
2. Probably:
3. I'm not wholly convinced that he has the tactical nous, man management skills or positive commitment necessary. Additionally, his ability to analyse a match sufficiently as it progresses seems somewhat questionable. Therefore I'm not sure if he can achieve my aspirations; &,
4. I'm not sure we want a wally, but I'll put up with a Wally until the end of the season at least. Beyond that I'm not too sure!
BeeReal
Member
Wallys'
"Surely the questions to ask are:
4. Do we want a Wally in charge of the team?"
Oh yes - very good - this is the KEY question!!
How about - Who else could have done as well with naff all, for naff all, with such a **** of a Chairman?!?!
What really depresses me is that with all that is happening at the club the last thing we need is an anti-Wally campaign. He's doing ok and we should be praying he doesn't leave us!
We have many problems at the club and the manager is really not one of the areas we should be putting any energies into.
Try BU / BIAS / fundraising / encouraging the team.
4. Do we want a Wally in charge of the team?"
Oh yes - very good - this is the KEY question!!
How about - Who else could have done as well with naff all, for naff all, with such a **** of a Chairman?!?!
What really depresses me is that with all that is happening at the club the last thing we need is an anti-Wally campaign. He's doing ok and we should be praying he doesn't leave us!
We have many problems at the club and the manager is really not one of the areas we should be putting any energies into.
Try BU / BIAS / fundraising / encouraging the team.
Baz Bee
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AB
Well-known member
Wallys'
He has done incredibly well so far over the course of the season. I think our poorer performances are now more due to the fact that few of the lads have experienced a full season of league football before (possibly only Hunt and Roget when he was at Southend- the rest are either new pros or have always missed large chunks of the season through injury/suspension) and have not been able to keep up the same standard as they had to start off with when they were fresh.
With so many young players I don't have a big problem with Wally playing them in different positions- particularly as we are in a reasonably safe position in the league- as I think it is too early to pigeon-hole players with many of them; remember that Chris Sutton didn't get converted into being a highly successful striker at Norwich until he was older than our average first-teamer.
I disagree that Wally has been tactically inflexible. Perhaps he hasn't been switching formation in the middle of each game to suit the opposition, but this is real life with a set of players who all have their limitations (whether in terms of skill or experience) not Championship Manager on the PC. A great manager for innovative tactical fiddling is Wadsworth and he hasn't really done a lot for Huddersfield who are only now looking like they might avoid relegation (despite having lost far fewer players than we did- in fact many of their players were with them when they went down from div 1). Wally has changed formation when able to (ie depending on the players available) and has at different times gone to 352, 532 and 433 (albeit with differing success). He was apparently the one who persuaded Coppell to change to a sweeper against Cardiff at GP last season to great effect- unfortunately we don't have a player like Mahon who can switch roles like that now (perhaps Dobbo could develop that way if we could be sure that we had 3 centre backs who weren't going to get injured/suspended/called up for international duty).
I also think it is a bit unfair to criticise Wally too much re loan players- after all our top scorer is one of his loanees! I'm not so sure that the lack of another loan striker until yesterday was not mainly down to a lack of suitable available players who wanted to come to us and whose clubs were willing to agree terms we could afford. I know that some higher division clubs/players only loan out on the basis that the player will always be picked if fit and that wouldn't be appropriate if we had a player like that and they underperformed because they knew they were bigger than the manager (I think QPR were lumbered with one and so have many clubs). Despite the lack of goals I think it was right to give McCammon the chance of an extended run. And perhaps Peters is only now becoming ready for first team football- he seemed rather anonymous in his limited subs runouts early in the season.
Get off Wally's back- next season is when we can start to judge whether he will take us forwards up the league; this season by getting to midtable he has already taken us further than could realistically be expected on the resources.
With so many young players I don't have a big problem with Wally playing them in different positions- particularly as we are in a reasonably safe position in the league- as I think it is too early to pigeon-hole players with many of them; remember that Chris Sutton didn't get converted into being a highly successful striker at Norwich until he was older than our average first-teamer.
I disagree that Wally has been tactically inflexible. Perhaps he hasn't been switching formation in the middle of each game to suit the opposition, but this is real life with a set of players who all have their limitations (whether in terms of skill or experience) not Championship Manager on the PC. A great manager for innovative tactical fiddling is Wadsworth and he hasn't really done a lot for Huddersfield who are only now looking like they might avoid relegation (despite having lost far fewer players than we did- in fact many of their players were with them when they went down from div 1). Wally has changed formation when able to (ie depending on the players available) and has at different times gone to 352, 532 and 433 (albeit with differing success). He was apparently the one who persuaded Coppell to change to a sweeper against Cardiff at GP last season to great effect- unfortunately we don't have a player like Mahon who can switch roles like that now (perhaps Dobbo could develop that way if we could be sure that we had 3 centre backs who weren't going to get injured/suspended/called up for international duty).
I also think it is a bit unfair to criticise Wally too much re loan players- after all our top scorer is one of his loanees! I'm not so sure that the lack of another loan striker until yesterday was not mainly down to a lack of suitable available players who wanted to come to us and whose clubs were willing to agree terms we could afford. I know that some higher division clubs/players only loan out on the basis that the player will always be picked if fit and that wouldn't be appropriate if we had a player like that and they underperformed because they knew they were bigger than the manager (I think QPR were lumbered with one and so have many clubs). Despite the lack of goals I think it was right to give McCammon the chance of an extended run. And perhaps Peters is only now becoming ready for first team football- he seemed rather anonymous in his limited subs runouts early in the season.
Get off Wally's back- next season is when we can start to judge whether he will take us forwards up the league; this season by getting to midtable he has already taken us further than could realistically be expected on the resources.