What do BIAS think?

[Leicester Bee]

Dear BIAS,

Following an e-mail I sent to Luke, I have decided to ask the same questions on here, as I have not yet had an answer. I appreciate that you have lives to lead and that answering questions quickly may not be so easy, however, I believe that BIAS could play a critical role.

Firstly, I believe that BIAS is supposed to play a role in improving communication between BFC and the fans. What is being done about this, in light of the fact that the Q&A sessions on the OS have now ceased.

Secondly, does BIAS realistically think that £1 million can be raised by the fans by September 30th?

Thirdly, it is suggested that certain BFC directors would need to be removed before potential investors consider raising the necessary funds to help save our club. If this is critical to the survival of the club, do you think that these directors should do the honourable thing and walk?

Finally, does BIAS honestly feel that the club has moved in the right direction since Noades left the day to day control of the club in the fans' hands? Are we really a fans' club, because other than a few individuals who work for BFC who are absolutely brilliant, I feel as much disassociation with Brentford than ever before. It really is a case of 'them and us'.

Sorry to ask these questions publicly, but I feel that BIAS could play an important role in communicating messages to fans, such as to why there is this feeling that BFC have failed to turn the situation around in two years.

Many thanks.

 

[beezy babe]

Luke has circulated your email for opinions - as you say we all have lives to lead and some of the committee aren't always at a computer so it takes time for the whole committee to respond. As not everyone (in fact not even a majority) has given an opinion as yet, I can't answer on behalf of the committee. Luke will reply to your email in full when we have a 'BIAS' stance.

However, I can answer your first question.

The current BIAS committee feel that improving communication between the fans and BFC should be one of our main objectives and we have worked hard to do this. It is not however, something that can be done overnight. Over the past few months, many fans have contacted us with their opinions on issues and we have communicated these to the Club. We asked for input with regard to the Southampton ticketing fiasco and the Princess Royal and took those opinions to the Club personally through meetings with Eddie Rogers and Roy King. We have also contacted the Club on a number of other issues including the Alistair Hill statement (we met with Alistair). Therefore our lines of communication with the Club are more open than ever before. With regard to the fans, we regularly ask for input and try and persuade fans to contact us with issues that they feel are important. There are now a number of fans that do this regularly and we are happy that they do this. We cannot force fans to contact us but we will continue to raise the profile of BIAS and encourage fans to talk to us and hope that the numbers of fans that do so will contiue to rise.

If you have any other ideas of how we may encourage fans to use us as a means of communication with the Club then please let me know.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Luke has circulated your email for opinions - as you say we all have lives to lead and some of the committee aren't always at a computer so it takes time for the whole committee to respond. As not everyone (in fact not even a majority) has given an opinion as yet, I can't answer on behalf of the committee. Luke will reply to your email in full when we have a 'BIAS' stance.

However, I can answer your first question.

The current BIAS committee feel that improving communication between the fans and BFC should be one of our main objectives and we have worked hard to do this. It is not however, something that can be done overnight. Over the past few months, many fans have contacted us with their opinions on issues and we have communicated these to the Club. We asked for input with regard to the Southampton ticketing fiasco and the Princess Royal and took those opinions to the Club personally through meetings with Eddie Rogers and Roy King. We have also contacted the Club on a number of other issues including the Alistair Hill statement (we met with Alistair). Therefore our lines of communication with the Club are more open than ever before. With regard to the fans, we regularly ask for input and try and persuade fans to contact us with issues that they feel are important. There are now a number of fans that do this regularly and we are happy that they do this. We cannot force fans to contact us but we will continue to raise the profile of BIAS and encourage fans to talk to us and hope that the numbers of fans that do so will contiue to rise.

If you have any other ideas of how we may encourage fans to use us as a means of communication with the Club then please let me know.

Thanks for your speedy reply. I raised this publicly to raise awareness of BIAS and the duties that are performed by yourselves. I am in the middle of something at the moment, but I wish to reply to you later.

Many thanks

 

[Ace Face]

Beezy what is your personal view on the questions asked?

For me communication is important, BUT far more important is making good decisions as a member of a management team. The management team at BFC consistantly makes bad decisiions and then all the communication lines will be doing is cascading bad decisions. Or sadly just communicating untruths ala Soton.

Communication will sadly change nothing. I think the vast majority of bothered fans know that there has to be a massive changes at BFC to make it leaner so quicker to react and to help stem the £6k weekly losses.

The issue of investment is a simple one, if it will save the club and is not just paying off Noades then individuals may have to fall on swords for the good of the club.

I have long given up hope of any organised campaign to FORCE change, so am stuck to wallow in the silent majority apathy.

 

[abee]

The current BIAS committee feel that improving communication between the fans and BFC should be one of our main objectives and we have worked hard to do this. It is not however, something that can be done overnight.

Sorry beezy babe but it is something that should not even take overnight.

You don't need me to tell you that surely but how much more of this "things take time", "can't be done overnight" rubbish are we expected to read.

Graham "still in a daze" Hall was telling us when he was catapulted into the BFC boardroom that he was conscious that communications needed to improve and that was what........seven months ago.......I am in Paris and don't have access to my BFC files here.

If anything everything has got worse........

BFC should be a customer driven business and if BIAS accepts that BFC communicating properly with its customers is something that cannot be done overnight then I'm gonna get my Uzi out of my gun cupboard and pay you guys a visit.

There's always a good reason why something can't be done properly isn't there........this is not a dig at BIAS........just rage at the entrenched excuses that pour out from Griffin Park. What is the marketing situation..........what happened to Lynda Worthy who was "on trial" was it until the end of the season.........is it true that Jerry Carter is back.........what happened to the Q&A forum.........when he left Greville Waterman told us that everything was geared to clearing up all of the outstanding questions but since he's gone it's died a death and nobody even bothers to tell us. Has Mark Chapman (whom Martin Allen considered to be invaluable) been replaced......are they replacing Kelly in the ticket office........can we hear from the new CEO please.........is the new CEO a member of the BFC board or does he just attend board meetings by invitation.....who are the executive directors is it JM and SC still and if so how can the CEO report directly to a non-executive chairman (yeah right) when we have two??? executive directors......Jesus wept I could bang these guys heads together in ten minutes and sort that ****ing place out in a week.

Now see what you've done. Ruined a beautiful Parisien day and I'm off to lunch.

 

[beezy babe]

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. I was talking about BIAS's position as a means of communication between the Club and the fans, not the Club's communication generally. I apologise if this wasn't clear

 

[beezy babe]

And my apologies Bish, but I would prefer to keep my personal thoughts to myself at this point

 

[abee]

There seems to be some misunderstanding here. I was talking about BIAS's position as a means of communication between the Club and the fans, not the Club's communication generally. I apologise if this wasn't clear

You're fired.

My comments still stand. They are ****ing hopeless........

 

[beezy babe]

You're fired.

I could have sworn that your surname wasn't 'Sugar'

 

[Leicester Bee]

Beezy, one question,

What has been the response from the club as to why they have ceased the Q&A sessions on the official site?

 

[Old B]

Below is an article from BIAS website - almost one month later has there been a response, has there been a meeting. Why is Hill still employed at GP?.

"On 29 April, BIAS received a response from Alistair Hill, in which he asked for a personal meeting with the BIAS Secretary.

Our response, which was copied to Eddie Rogers, is below.

We will contact Eddie Rogers w/c 9 May to see if anything has come of his investigations (see link below for more information).

From: Alistair Hill
Sent: 29 April 2005
Subject: RE: Reaction to crowd behaviour at match versus Tranmere

Phil, I'm sorry I sent an email but there have been problems with my computer.

I would like to meet you personally to discuss the issues if that is OK. Please give me a ring to set a time & date

Alistair

From: BIAS
Sent: 29 April 2005
To: 'Alistair Hill'
Cc: Eddie Rogers (E-mail)
Subject: RE: Reaction to crowd behaviour at match versus Tranmere

Thanks Alistair.

We are rather puzzled that you continue to take no action over this matter, yet simply request a meeting. It took one of our committee members two brief telephone calls within the space of half an hour - this was done nearly two weeks ago - to find out that the referee's report made no mention of "aggressive and threatening behaviour" by Brentford supporters. We wonder what prevents you from doing this, and then issuing a corrective statement? As each day passes, your failure to do this leaves the good name of Brentford FC and its supporters tarnished - tarnished by unproven allegations made in your own statement. Surely this is irresponsible behaviour on behalf of a Club Official. BIAS would appreciate an explanation as to why you have taken no action. This is a straightforward request and does not necessitate a meeting at this stage.

Again, please note that this is an open letter and will be posted on our website.

Regards

Phil Marchant
BIAS"

 

[Edmundo]

can we hear from the new CEO please.........

You've had the Larry Signy interview, what more do you want? Honestly abee, get back in here with the rest of us mushrooms and eat the sh*t they (sometimes) feed us!

I wonder when BIAS might consider starting the "John Mac out" campaign, or does his place in BIAS's history preclude this?

 

[Boston Bee]

He's doing a marvelous job and in fact we're thinking of extending his contract. Anyway, no one of any quality would want to come here anyway.

Worked March 2004, and appears to be back in May 2005.

I wonder when BIAS might consider starting the "John Mac out" campaign, or does his place in BIAS's history preclude this?

 

[beesbeesbarmyarmy]

I wonder when BIAS might consider starting the "John Mac out" campaign, or does his place in BIAS's history preclude this?

Are you going to suggest they start a Roy King and Alistair Hill out campaign as well?

I think we have to trust the potential investors and the democratic movement known as BU on this, rather than BIAS.

 

[abee]

I could have sworn that your surname wasn't 'Sugar'

That's my "nickname".........how did you know........

 

[abee]

You've had the Larry Signy interview, what more do you want?

You're kidding right??????? Surely we've been punished enough.

I didn't get to the final games so didn't see a programme you see
and furthermore........

 

[Leicester Bee]

Are you going to suggest they start a Roy King and Alistair Hill out campaign as well?

I think we have to trust the potential investors and the democratic movement known as BU on this, rather than BIAS.

To do what exactly? Any potential investors are not in control of the club. The democratic movement known as BU shows that "some" of the BU-apopinted directors leave alot to be desired. So then what? We sit here on the internet to complain about it? Or why not use a body like BIAS to exert more pressure? I cannot wait to hear back from the BIAS committee in respect of my questions. I am sure that BIAS would look to represent their members in this instance and make the decision to start acting towards ensuring that either a) the path for potential investors is kept as clear as possible or b) the club raises the £1 million without outside investment. As far as I'm concerned, b) is impossible.

So what else can be done to ensure the long-term future of our club?

I hate this "do nothing" approach. Bugger it. All fans want to know is what will it take to save the long-term future of our club. Then let's make it happen.

 

[Ace Face]

Democracy sounds great doesn`t it, until you find yourself in the mess we are in. I want the right people rather than a fantastic democratic process.

What is wrong with asking for individuals to go? - every day the link between the fans and the club grows thinner and thinner. The level of confidence in this worrying period is at an all time low, the club comes first --period!

We are told we need to raise £1m to buy Altonwood owned shares, yet poor management has cost us a CEO salary and lost revenue. It is also rumoured that DW is being sidelined by BU and if this true. I really do not understand what the hell is going on. Remember DW provided no £100k just his professional skills, so if we ain`t using them????????????????????????????

 

[beesbeesbarmyarmy]

To do what exactly? Any potential investors are not in control of the club. The democratic movement known as BU shows that "some" of the BU-apopinted directors leave alot to be desired. So then what? We sit here on the internet to complain about it? Or why not use a body like BIAS to exert more pressure? I cannot wait to hear back from the BIAS committee in respect of my questions. I am sure that BIAS would look to represent their members in this instance and make the decision to start acting towards ensuring that either a) the path for potential investors is kept as clear as possible or b) the club raises the £1 million without outside investment. As far as I'm concerned, b) is impossible.

So what else can be done to ensure the long-term future of our club?

I hate this "do nothing" approach. Bugger it. All fans want to know is what will it take to save the long-term future of our club. Then let's make it happen.

The investors have demands Leicester Bee, are BIAS and the great unwashed ever going to know what these are? If they do then great, we can start a campaign to get John Mac out or whatever, but for now, what do you suggest BIAS doing? Removing barriers for outside investment? Do you know what the barriers are? With all due respect, you are full of questions, but not many answers.

 

[abee]

Democracy sounds great doesn`t it, until you find yourself in the mess we are in. I want the right people rather than a fantastic democratic process.

What is wrong with asking for individuals to go? - every day the link between the fans and the club grows thinner and thinner. The level of confidence in this worrying period is at an all time low, the club comes first --period!

We are told we need to raise £1m to buy Altonwood owned shares, yet poor management has cost us a CEO salary and lost revenue. It is also rumoured that DW is being sidelined by BU and if this true. I really do not understand what the hell is going on. Remember DW provided no £100k just his professional skills, so if we ain`t using them????????????????????????????

The problem of course Bish is that important decisions are being taken by the current "trustees" of Brentford Football Club who seem to be losing credibility daily and give every impression of not having a business brain between them.

I remember when Bee H, abee and just a few others were very lone voices on here but frankly very few now seem to have any confidence whatsoever in the present BFC board of directors.

 

[abee]

The investors have demands Leicester Bee, are BIAS and the great unwashed ever going to know what these are? If they do then great, we can start a campaign to get John Mac out or whatever, but for now, what do you suggest BIAS doing? Removing barriers for outside investment? Do you know what the barriers are? With all due respect, you are full of questions, but not many answers.

Bees United will not know how much is needed from "wealthy supporters" until nearer to the end of the fund raising exercise. For example we have also (I suppose) wealthy BFC directors.......Rogers and Herting have loans in but as far as I am aware the other five don't have a red cent in as loans other than the usual Bees United stuff. Now we know that these five include talented and successful businessmen who surely during their highly successful careers and consultancies have managed to salt a bit of the "readies" away and will be doing their share.

That is why I suggested that someone may care to ask on Thursday night how much Bees United believed could be raised from the existing BFC directors.

Any "clout" that the "wealthy supporter investors" may have will of course depend upon how much they are being asked for. If Bees United finishes up £25k short the answer will be not much but if at the end of September we are told that they have raised £26.37 of which the £0.37p came from the BFC board and can we do the rest then I am certain that there will be some hard bargaining.

 

[Ace Face]

abee - You more than others, no of my history of supporting BU and JM and other individuals.

But when someone makes a mistake and then fails to react or fails to steer the ship into sheltered waters, you have to admit you were wrong and change your views about people.

I was wrong and reacted to it, if only the powers that be would have admitted errors and gained professional guidance at a far earlier stage - it could have strengthened the position of BU. Instead of being a serious identified weakness now.

 

[abee]

abee - You more than others, no of my history of supporting BU and JM and other individuals.

But when someone makes a mistake and then fails to react or fails to steer the ship into sheltered waters, you have to admit you were wrong and change your views about people.

I was wrong and reacted to it, if only the powers that be would have admitted errors and gained professional guidance at a far earlier stage - it could have strengthened the position of BU. Instead of being a serious identified weakness now.

The amazing thing to me Bosh was that it took so long for the penny to drop for so many people.......anyway none of this is solving the current problems....

 

[Leicester Bee]

anyway none of this is solving the current problems....

Precisely. I don't think it matters. What matters is understanding what on earth fans, BIAS, or whoever, can do to ensure the long-term survival of the club. I don't believe in doing nothing. Whether there are investors or not, it matters not. Something can be done. Whether it is marketing a message to as many fans as possible. Whether it is campaigning to reques the resignations of certain directors. I don't know but I feel we ought to know what can be done, to ease the path for our long-term future.
If we are told, raise as much money as we can to aid the situation, then fine, let's do it.

 

[Boston Bee]

Not a sarcy answer but a real question: Is "what on earth...whoever can do to ensure the long-term survival of the club" include selling the ground off? Is that what I understand is being discussed? If so, is it somehow better that 'we' did it and went to Woking than if Ron did it and we went to Woking?

What matters is understanding what on earth fans, BIAS, or whoever, can do to ensure the long-term survival of the club.

 

[JoeBourke]

Precisely. I don't think it matters. What matters is understanding what on earth fans, BIAS, or whoever, can do to ensure the long-term survival of the club. I don't believe in doing nothing. Whether there are investors or not, it matters not. Something can be done. Whether it is marketing a message to as many fans as possible. Whether it is campaigning to reques the resignations of certain directors. I don't know but I feel we ought to know what can be done, to ease the path for our long-term future.
If we are told, raise as much money as we can to aid the situation, then fine, let's do it.

Leiceter Bee,

From the fundraising flyer:

Ten Ways to Help Our Appeal

1. Join Bees United.

2. Make a monthly standing order to Bees United.

3. Send a donation by cheque to Bees United care of Brentford Football Club and mark the back of the cheque “£1M Appeal”.

4. If you are one of our wealthier supporters are you willing to make a substantial interest free loans to the Club or to Bees United please contact Brian Burgess by email at [email protected].

5. If you know of someone who may be interested in becoming a new business partner as an investor in a consortium, please contact Brian Burgess as above.

6. Donate some time to help us with this appeal. It would be a great way to stay involved with the Club during the close season! If you are interested come along our next Fundraising Meeting on 18 May 2005 in the Sponsors’ Lounge at Griffin Park or if you can’t make this write to John Huggins care of the Club or email [email protected].

7. Support one of our existing fundraising schemes like; our spare change tins (available from the Club Shop), buy Bees United merchandise, bring your old printer cartridges or mobile phones to our recycling scheme at Griffin Park, sponsor a striker, join our investment club or attend one of our music nights in Stripes – see the advert in the programme for details.

8. Sign-up to Bees United Utilities – helping Bees United to raise funds and save money yourself.

9. Donate cash in one of our collecting buckets today.

10. Join our Loan Note Scheme. The details are:

The Scheme has raised £84,000 to date. £80,000 was loaned to the club in the summer of 2003 and proved vital in keeping the club afloat at that time.

With the opportunity to exercise the Bees United option over the next few months, this is an ideal means by which members can participate in securing the future of Brentford Football Club.

Loan note funds may only be used for the purposes of making secured loans or acquiring shares in the club.

Loan Notes are available in denominations of £1,000. A loan note can be shared with a friend, but only a single name can be registered.

Details of the scheme are available on the Bees United website at http://www.beesunited.org.uk/loannotes.html.

Members should note the Society will never be obliged to repay any Loans. If we go ahead and invest in the Club, the likelihood is that you will be unable to get your investment back, at least for the foreseeable future

The Co-Operative Bank have made a facility available for members of supporters trusts to take out a three year personal loan for these purposes. Details are available from the trust secretary
[email protected] or by telephoning 0845 166 7222.

Anyone taking out a loan should be comfortably able to meet the monthly repayments over the three-year term.

 

[Luton Bee]

Or in summation we want your money but not your views.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Not a sarcy answer but a real question: Is "what on earth...whoever can do to ensure the long-term survival of the club" include selling the ground off? Is that what I understand is being discussed? If so, is it somehow better that 'we' did it and went to Woking than if Ron did it and we went to Woking?

Boston,

As far as I personally see it, we are in a situation where we could take the club over.
However, in order to do so, we need to raise £1 million.

Raising £1 million is simply too much for just our fans to raise in such a short space of time, so after alot of posts on here from various people (special thnks to abee for what he has posted), it transpires that investors could invest a certain amount to top up the fund-raising to £1 million.

However, I read this as a "could", not a "will".

This begs many many questions, but the way I see it, I believe that investors might struggle to fulfill the funds needed because of the diminishing credibility of the BFC board.

To me, this means that we will either have the fans raise the £1 million without investors (HUGELY unlikely though), or the investors will need some damned good reasons to invest their money into Brentford Football Club.

It seems to be agreed that it is the £1 million that will ensure our long-term survival.
Most people, in my opinion, do not believe that the fans can raise the money on their own.
Investors will surely want to see the club make guarantees about the manner in which it has been run.

The point about this is that the messages that emulate from BU and BFC must be clear. Marketing the message, ensuring that the simplest message gets out to the fans, I think is important to the cause. I see BIAS being a group that could help this happen. Failure to send a clear message to fans (not just about the £1 million appeal) would further confuse our apathetic fans and ensure that we raise very little.

For example, Red Nose Day organisers don't ask for a set amount. They just come up with new and innovative ideas that help them break records year after year.

Anyway, I don't know for sure, maybe I'm stepping on people's toes, I don't know. All I want to see is a clear message, and EVERYONE showing a united front. Not bickering about who said what 12 months ago, etc.
Once this clear message is marketed to the fans, then we can move on and start the process of making it happen.

 

[King Bee]

Boston,

As far as I personally see it, we are in a situation where we could take the club over.
However, in order to do so, we need to raise £1 million.

This is a recapitalisation Leicester not a take over. We are freeing up £2m of Altonwood obligations which will be used to fund gaps that Altonwood have elsewhere in their business. Altonwood will still remain the biggest creditor post investor funding.

 

[JoeBourke]

Not a sarcy answer but a real question: Is "what on earth...whoever can do to ensure the long-term survival of the club" include selling the ground off? Is that what I understand is being discussed? If so, is it somehow better that 'we' did it and went to Woking than if Ron did it and we went to Woking?

Boston Bee,

Ron Noades never conceded that the club had been mismanaged during his tenure or that he or Altonwood had any obligation for the debts accumulated, moral or otherwise.

What he did state, quite openly and frequently, was the proposed sale of Griffin Park was not a debt repayment exercise, but was essential as the club could not survive at Griffin Park. During the course of the first Bees United fundraising campaign, he also stated that putting £1m into to the club would do little to arrest the terminal decline in the clubs financial position. He even suggested that if it would have, he would have done it himself!

Whether these comments can be regarded as sincere or not is currently irrelevant. The position taken by Bees United is that Griffin Park can only be sold as part of the financing for a new stadium, not to repay debts and not to exercise the option.

Hopefully, it will now be recognised by all that the club can survive at Griffin Park. For Bees United, the new stadium is about future progress not debt repayment.

The financial results of the past two years have put the club back in a position, where the imminent threat of a forced sale of Griffin Park has subsided, if not yet completely disappeared.

The Bees United option has been extended to 30 September, 2005. That option requires the release of Altonwoods guarantees in full and the repayment of a £250k loan. That is the only binding agreement currently in effect and there is nothing to stop another buyer acquring the Altonwood shares subject to that option.

If Mrs. Abramovich wants to use part of her allowance to buy her own club to play with, than I am sure Ron would be happy to oblige.

Bees United are in discussions to acquire the Altonwood shares on more favourable terms than the option provides for. To do so requires a substantial paydown of the clubs overdraft, releasing at least part of the cash collateral tied up in supporting the Altonwood guarantees.

If the option is not exercised and Bees United funding were to be removed from the budget, the club could probably still get through the next season with a cash crunch coming in the 2006 close season.

If Altonwood are able to find an alternative buyer for the club other than Bees United, they have not appeared over the past two years and have only a few more months to step forward. There is no imminent threat of financial failure over the course of the next 12 months.

Altonwood want an exit and Bees United want to take the club into supporters control. If we can agree mutually acceptable terms with Altonwood, all well and good. We do not however, have to accept any onerous conditions that increase the risk to the clubs future in doing so.

 

[King Bee]

I am actually more concerned about the C&M/Barratt shenanigans that have been alluded to in another thread. We clearly have a board split over which party we should be negotiating with, presumably because of various different vested interests...on the one hand we have the Doug White Camp who are firmly locked in with C&M, and on the other we have the John Mac et al camp who are negotiating with Barratt apparently or not as the case may be. Clarification should be sought on this...I'm also interested in finding out exactly what is being negotiated by these two property developers, if at all

 

[JoeBourke]

Or in summation we want your money but not your views.

Luton Bee,

http://www.beesunited.org.uk/articles/hull070505.php

Hope you will be there to give your views together with other members.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Leiceter Bee,

From the fundraising flyer:

Ten Ways to Help Our Appeal

1. Join Bees United.

2. Make a monthly standing order to Bees United.

3. Send a donation by cheque to Bees United care of Brentford Football Club and mark the back of the cheque “£1M Appeal”.

4. If you are one of our wealthier supporters are you willing to make a substantial interest free loans to the Club or to Bees United please contact Brian Burgess by email at [email protected].

5. If you know of someone who may be interested in becoming a new business partner as an investor in a consortium, please contact Brian Burgess as above.

6. Donate some time to help us with this appeal. It would be a great way to stay involved with the Club during the close season! If you are interested come along our next Fundraising Meeting on 18 May 2005 in the Sponsors’ Lounge at Griffin Park or if you can’t make this write to John Huggins care of the Club or email [email protected].

7. Support one of our existing fundraising schemes like; our spare change tins (available from the Club Shop), buy Bees United merchandise, bring your old printer cartridges or mobile phones to our recycling scheme at Griffin Park, sponsor a striker, join our investment club or attend one of our music nights in Stripes – see the advert in the programme for details.

8. Sign-up to Bees United Utilities – helping Bees United to raise funds and save money yourself.

9. Donate cash in one of our collecting buckets today.

10. Join our Loan Note Scheme. The details are:

The Scheme has raised £84,000 to date. £80,000 was loaned to the club in the summer of 2003 and proved vital in keeping the club afloat at that time.

With the opportunity to exercise the Bees United option over the next few months, this is an ideal means by which members can participate in securing the future of Brentford Football Club.

Loan note funds may only be used for the purposes of making secured loans or acquiring shares in the club.

Loan Notes are available in denominations of £1,000. A loan note can be shared with a friend, but only a single name can be registered.

Details of the scheme are available on the Bees United website at http://www.beesunited.org.uk/loannotes.html.

Members should note the Society will never be obliged to repay any Loans. If we go ahead and invest in the Club, the likelihood is that you will be unable to get your investment back, at least for the foreseeable future

The Co-Operative Bank have made a facility available for members of supporters trusts to take out a three year personal loan for these purposes. Details are available from the trust secretary
[email protected] or by telephoning 0845 166 7222.

Anyone taking out a loan should be comfortably able to meet the monthly repayments over the three-year term.

Joe,

With the greatest of respect, I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying that we blindly follow this route? Is that it? Do you think that £1 million is a realistic target? If not, then why hasn't the message been clear to the fans?

There seems to be a message from BU that states that if the fans can raise £1 million, we save the club. Yet, many fans I speak with including myself (yes I do talk to myself sometimes) do not believe that this is a realistic challenge and of many fans who helped fund-raise 2 years ago, alot of them have stated that it's so unrealistic that they can't bring themselves to help.

Surely this is not a feeling that BU wants from the fans.

So, I am asked, "what's plan B?"

After postings on the GPG, it transpires that there is a plan B, thanks to BU, we found out from GPG posters. So, what's the new message to the fans now?

My point is that the manner in which this has been communicated, to me, seems hurried and is not clear, and has not indicated any alternative options for fans.
And this is before my blood starts to boil again over the inadequacies of the club itself.

I cannot stress the importance of sending out accurate messages that have no room for contradiction or whatever. Especially when BU is dealing with a wide spectrum of people. Surely the communications director will know this?
It is the apathetic fans who must be reached out to the most. It is these apathetic fans who just switched off during the recent half-time appeal. Why did they switch off?
Time and time again I have been told that these apathetic fans are difficult to reach out to and that they have all the information available if they want it.
Time and time again I have publicly stated that this is totally the wrong attitude to take, and that it is the lack of effective communication and the lack of simplifying messages that makes people apathetic. In addition, if you analyse all the messages that have come from the club or BU, they are open to contradiction and are sometimes inconsistent (mainly from the club admittedly). How does that help the cause?

So what's the new message then? Are you saying that we stick to the £1 million appeal and that's that? What about the addressing the issues that really matter, as the £1 million is far more likely to come from wealtheir benefactors isn't it? If this is the case, then do you really think that a wealthy benefactor will loan the club money interest free? If not, then what conditions might be attached? Look at the track record of the running of the club since BU took over? Does it display an attractive proposition to a potential investor?

Or shall we copy and paste a statement from the BU website to directly answer the real issues.

It's amazing isn't it. Can anyone answer this: "Is £1 million a realistic target, and if so, what projections can prove this in light of the amount we raised two years ago?"

Anyone?

 

[Leicester Bee]

This is a recapitalisation Leicester not a take over. We are freeing up £2m of Altonwood obligations which will be used to fund gaps that Altonwood have elsewhere in their business. Altonwood will still remain the biggest creditor post investor funding.

Thank you King Bee. You've just proved my point. How many of our 5000 strong fanbase knows this? Anyway, I thought that if we took the 60% shareholding, then all it would do is ensure that BU take control of the club, due to the majority shareholding. Yes, Altonwood would be freed from some of their liabilities, but effectively BU take control.

Again, my point is that most fans don't understand. The message isn't clear enough, and is open to contradiction. Re-read the BU website and I can tell you that most of the Bees fans I know can't figure it out. They are left thinking that if we raise £1 million, that's it. Is it?

If you polled most of the fans on the internet, my belief is that you get hugly inaccurate results. Ask the majority of the fans, those who turn up on the day, watch the football and go home. I'd argue that the majority of them are still as much in the dark as ever.

As much respect as I have for Stephen Cowan and his oratory skills, many of the fans around me stopped listening after 1 minute, 2 minutes tops. This speech was longer than 2 minutes, and was generally convoluted with different messages. If you re-read the speech, how many facts does it contain? Dozens of facts that simply cannot sustain most people's interest. Sorry, but that's a fact.
Anyone in marketing, branding, or similar industries know that providing a message to the general public is difficult, and therefore must be kept as simple as possible, preferably with some sort of slogan or strap line. To me, this seems to have been overlooked and I think it makes the task that much harder.

 

[Banana]

Bees United are in discussions to acquire the Altonwood shares on more favourable terms than the option provides for.

You mean 99p instead of £1 :bound:

 

[Leicester Bee]

Ron Noades never conceded that the club had been mismanaged during his tenure or that he or Altonwood had any obligation for the debts accumulated, moral or otherwise.

And BU took over knowing this information in advance of the takeover, understanding that the task that faced them was immense. Please read postings from that time advising not to take over the club at the time, arguing that administration might actually be a better option for us. The only alternative was to re-negotiate the debt and not be forced into taking over the club with the problems it had. Yet BU took over the club. Bravo. I still have the t-shirt I wore in front of 5000 fans at Griffin Park, politely asking Noades to drop the debt, because at the time, it was explained to me that to take on the legacy of the debt that Noades had run up, would be nigh on impossible. Two years later and BU have asked for an extension to the option. 4 months later from now, and unless investors come in, I'm sorry, I don't see where the rest of the money will come from.

Where are we raising the £600k needed for the ground improvements too?

 

[Leicester Bee]

Luton Bee,

http://www.beesunited.org.uk/articles/hull070505.php

Hope you will be there to give your views together with other members.

Joe, will non-BU members be allowed into the meeting to air their views? I want to know because I'm thinking of re-joining BU.

 

[Boston Bee]

You quoted my question but, because I'm a bit simple, I can't seem to find the answer and need it spelled out: Are we considering selling the ground to C&M (or Barretts) or not? Simple sentences all I need.

Boston Bee,

Ron Noades never conceded that the club had been mismanaged during his tenure or that he or Altonwood had any obligation for the debts accumulated, moral or otherwise.

What he did state, quite openly and frequently, was the proposed sale of Griffin Park was not a debt repayment exercise, but was essential as the club could not survive at Griffin Park. During the course of the first Bees United fundraising campaign, he also stated that putting £1m into to the club would do little to arrest the terminal decline in the clubs financial position. He even suggested that if it would have, he would have done it himself!

Whether these comments can be regarded as sincere or not is currently irrelevant. The position taken by Bees United is that Griffin Park can only be sold as part of the financing for a new stadium, not to repay debts and not to exercise the option.

Hopefully, it will now be recognised by all that the club can survive at Griffin Park. For Bees United, the new stadium is about future progress not debt repayment.

The financial results of the past two years have put the club back in a position, where the imminent threat of a forced sale of Griffin Park has subsided, if not yet completely disappeared.

The Bees United option has been extended to 30 September, 2005. That option requires the release of Altonwoods guarantees in full and the repayment of a £250k loan. That is the only binding agreement currently in effect and there is nothing to stop another buyer acquring the Altonwood shares subject to that option.

If Mrs. Abramovich wants to use part of her allowance to buy her own club to play with, than I am sure Ron would be happy to oblige.

Bees United are in discussions to acquire the Altonwood shares on more favourable terms than the option provides for. To do so requires a substantial paydown of the clubs overdraft, releasing at least part of the cash collateral tied up in supporting the Altonwood guarantees.

If the option is not exercised and Bees United funding were to be removed from the budget, the club could probably still get through the next season with a cash crunch coming in the 2006 close season.

If Altonwood are able to find an alternative buyer for the club other than Bees United, they have not appeared over the past two years and have only a few more months to step forward. There is no imminent threat of financial failure over the course of the next 12 months.

Altonwood want an exit and Bees United want to take the club into supporters control. If we can agree mutually acceptable terms with Altonwood, all well and good. We do not however, have to accept any onerous conditions that increase the risk to the clubs future in doing so.

 

[JoeBourke]

Leicester,

Bees United started putting out a call for prospective investors last year and that has been repeated in several programme articles, Chronicle articles and BU newsletters.

Insofar as we are now able to specify the amount required, the message for a fundraising campaign has become much simpler.

At the last BU fundraising meeting the following recommendations were agreed:

- It was agreed that a barometer showing the level of funds raised would keep members informed and also stress the urgency of the time constraints.

- It was also arranged to set up a clock on the internet website running down from 125 days.

Regarding the willingness of wealthy benefactors making interest free loans to support this appeal - we already know this to be the case. We all want the same thing, to remove the threat to the club and ensure it is managed in an efficient and professional manner and that's what all intend to deliver.

Bees United members have raised over £500k in the past three years to keep the club going, to a point where larger investors feel that putting money into the club will not be a short term fix, but will make a difference to the clubs long term future.

Everyone has a part to play, whether it is becoming a BU member, taking out a standing order or loan note, participating in fundraising initiatives. All contributions make a difference whether time or money, large or small.

The board and adminstrative structures will be worked out based on the needs of the club going forward and what is required to achieve a successful outcome.

 

[Leicester Bee]

Is that £500k ring-fenced funds?

Will I be allowed into the meeting on Thursday despite not currently being a BU member?

Where will the £600k needed for ground improvements come from?

Will BU come up with some form of strap line to aid the appeal and its marketability to ALL fans, including the local community who supported the ABeeC campaign?

 

[JoeBourke]

And BU took over knowing this information in advance of the takeover, understanding that the task that faced them was immense. Please read postings from that time advising not to take over the club at the time, arguing that administration might actually be a better option for us. The only alternative was to re-negotiate the debt and not be forced into taking over the club with the problems it had. Yet BU took over the club. Bravo. I still have the t-shirt I wore in front of 5000 fans at Griffin Park, politely asking Noades to drop the debt, because at the time, it was explained to me that to take on the legacy of the debt that Noades had run up, would be nigh on impossible. Two years later and BU have asked for an extension to the option. 4 months later from now, and unless investors come in, I'm sorry, I don't see where the rest of the money will come from.

Where are we raising the £600k needed for the ground improvements too?

Leicester,

If you read the postings from the time, I think you will find that most people and certainly those with experience of insolvency advised against this route.

Bees United had the benefit of advice from several parties, including lawyers and accountants practising in the field and supporters groups where control of the ground had been lost.

To risk the loss of Griffin Park then was poor advice, it would be poor advice now and it will be poor advice in the future as long as there is £5m+ of secured debt against the stadium.

Noades is not going to drop the debt while he has a chance of coming out whole. The deal he negotiated for the sale of G.P. in 2002 was £800k up front, £5m when planning consent was approved and three years to move out, with the balance of any more monies coming whenever the housing development was complete. That was enough to clear the overdraft and secured loans and get Altonwood out whole. The only obstacle in his way was the veto held by Martin Lange and that could be removed by the threat of administration whether Bees United liked it or not.

Faced with the sale of Griffin Park for peanuts or working towards a point where raising a million pounds would secure control of the club, which option do you think fans would back?

 

[JoeBourke]

You quoted my question but, because I'm a bit simple, I can't seem to find the answer and need it spelled out: Are we considering selling the ground to C&M (or Barretts) or not? Simple sentences all I need.

Boston,

The sale of Griffin Park to whoever, is part of the financing for the new stadium, if and when that project comes to fruition.

 

[SamBee]

where raising a million pounds would secure control of the club, which option do you think fans would back?

i thought you said it would strenthen our position in negotiatons - are you now saying that a million gets usthe club?

 

[Leicester Bee]

Leicester,

If you read the postings from the time, I think you will find that most people and certainly those with experience of insolvency advised against this route.

Bees United had the benefit of advice from several parties, including lawyers and accountants practising in the field and supporters groups where control of the ground had been lost.

To risk the loss of Griffin Park then was poor advice, it would be poor advice now and it will be poor advice in the future as long as there is £5m+ of secured debt against the stadium.

Noades is not going to drop the debt while he has a chance of coming out whole. The deal he negotiated for the sale of G.P. in 2002 was £800k up front, £5m when planning consent was approved and three years to move out, with the balance of any more monies coming whenever the housing development was complete. That was enough to clear the overdraft and secured loans and get Altonwood out whole. The only obstacle in his way was the veto held by Martin Lange and that could be removed by the threat of administration whether Bees United liked it or not.

Faced with the sale of Griffin Park for peanuts or working towards a point where raising a million pounds would secure control of the club, which option do you think fans would back?

Sorry Joe, but I'm not 100% sure if I agree. Are you saying that the ONLY two options open to us was to go into administration or risk the enforced sale of Grffin Park?
Will you then categorically state as a matter of fact (for public records) that there was NO room for negotiation with Altonwood?
Will you categorically state as a matter of fact that Altonwood would only offer us a 2 year option?


Sorry, but I think that's a cop out. Look at what Noades did to our club in the short space of time that he was here. Why couldn't we have negotiated harder? Why didn't we mobilise a PR campaign to show Noades up for what he did to our club? This would have been a disaster for Noades had we started up a campaign to show him up for what he was. Instead, my personal opinion is that we bottled the chance for a fight where we stood a chance of re-negotiating our position.

Please do tell me how far we have gotten with improving our financial situation with only days before the "original" deadline expires. What, we've reduced our debt to one that is manageable? Really? Will the investors, I presume, be loaning us money unconditionally?

Excuse my confrontational stance Joe, but if you say that the option open to us in May 2003 was:

"Faced with the sale of Griffin Park for peanuts or working towards a point where raising a million pounds would secure control of the club, which option do you think fans would back?"

When was the million pound appeal launched? Two years ago, the fans understood our debt to be £4.5 million to release Altonwood from their guarantees.
Again, my point about communication seems pertinent again.

 

[Leicester Bee]

i thought you said it would strenthen our position in negotiatons - are you now saying that a million gets usthe club?

Oooh, don't tell me you're confused too.

 

[Luton Bee]

To risk the loss of Griffin Park then was poor advice, it would be poor advice now and it will be poor advice in the future as long as there is £5m+ of secured debt against the stadium.

Does (or did) that also include the proposed Richard Thompson deal?

 

[Luton Bee]

Luton Bee,

http://www.beesunited.org.uk/articles/hull070505.php

Hope you will be there to give your views together with other members.

I gave my views in the online survey of Bees United members and BFC supporters undertaken proir to the BU governance review. My views (and the views of others) were subsequently "air-brushed" out of the resulting report. What guarantees have we that views forthcomming from Thursday nights event, which in reality is a glorified talking shop, won't go the same way?

 

[Boston Bee]

OK, someone in the know that doesn't feel like talking in code want to tell me (and surely others) what the heck is going on.

 

[Hampton Hill Bee]

not just you!

 

[Russell]

You've had the Larry Signy interview, what more do you want? Honestly abee, get back in here with the rest of us mushrooms and eat the sh*t they (sometimes) feed us!

I wonder when BIAS might consider starting the "John Mac out" campaign, or does his place in BIAS's history preclude this?

As I recall Ed, you, I, Shaggy and er, JM proposed and agreed the formal constitution which stated that BIAS would work towards promoting good communication between BFC and the fans. It's a such a shame one of us would go on the "greater things" yet cast off our original intentions once they reached the "dark side".