What's different about us?

[SpiderBee]

Could we sell GP for, say, £18 million with a proviso to stay at GP for five years.
Have we a buyer lined up?
Then ship all board out, start again, with solid FA advice and backing?

 

[wayfarer172]

Could we sell GP for, say, £18 million with a proviso to stay at GP for five years.
Have we a buyer lined up?
Then ship all board out, start again, with solid FA advice and backing?

Like the sound of this Spider . I'm no business man but surely it's all about wheeling and dealing in the long round. BFC have one major asset which is Griffinpark.. Get rid then maybe we can get that **** Noades off our backs for good. While were about it would be a good idea to **** Dyke and Dickens off too

 

[Sweepy]

Because of experience with W£bb and in particular Noad£s, fans are rightly suspicious of benefactors. The problem with that is that by over-protecting the club, its growth is being restricted.

91 other football clubs have to put their faith in the owner. As the thread starter asked, what is so different about us?

Time to get our heads out of our backsides and realise that if there is to be a club in five years time, there is a need to talk to people we may be suspicious of.

 

[Gee Bee]

Could we sell GP for, say, £18 million with a proviso to stay at GP for five years.
Have we a buyer lined up?
Then ship all board out, start again, with solid FA advice and backing?

Doubt ytou would get that much for GP if football is still played ther efor 5 years. The buyer would no doubt work out a rental income for that 5 years and knock it off the price.
As for the buyer, quite a few have been courted and Barratts has been banded around as the favoured option. from memory of teh fans forum notes I think BB & GD were going to update the Lionel Road situation in January. I believe a bid for the site has now been made. The plan as I understand it, is that whoever buys and develops GP also have some input into the enabling devlopment on Lionel Road and effectively also build much of the stuadium at little cost to the club. This will no doubt still take a rolling 5 years to come to fruition. :sad:

 

[Downbeat Bee]

Sell GP with no ground to go to and we die simple as that

 

[SpiderBee]

Doubt ytou would get that much for GP if football is still played ther efor 5 years. The buyer would no doubt work out a rental income for that 5 years and knock it off the price.
As for the buyer, quite a few have been courted and Barratts has been banded around as the favoured option. from memory of teh fans forum notes I think BB & GD were going to update the Lionel Road situation in January. I believe a bid for the site has now been made. The plan as I understand it, is that whoever buys and develops GP also have some input into the enabling devlopment on Lionel Road and effectively also build much of the stuadium at little cost to the club. This will no doubt still take a rolling 5 years to come to fruition. :sad:

OK. But if someone bought it now for £18M that would be cheaper than buying it in 5 years time surely? Would give new owner opportunity to plan ahead for development too?
I don't doubt the genuine belief of a new stadium but, just now, I can't picture it happening!
I do hope so though!

 

[SpiderBee]

Sell GP with no ground to go to and we die simple as that

Brighton didn't die?
I just want a clean slate to keep us going on an even keel for 5 years at least!
I also think we could buy into a non-league club, and groundshare as owners!

 

[abee]

I also think we could buy into a non-league club, and groundshare as owners!

Hiya Ron..........how's it hanging man..........

 

[SpiderBee]

Hiya Ron..........how's it hanging man..........

Not too well dear boy!
Deeply concerned about this debt thing don't you know!

 

[Gee Bee]

Time to get our heads out of our backsides and realise that if there is to be a club in five years time, there is a need to talk to people we may be suspicious of.

How do you know that isn't already happening. Surely by announcing plans of how any sale and new build would happen actually suggests that working partners are being spoken with. Not forgetting that 3 new investors are on the board that were not there a year ago.

 

[SpiderBee]

Hiya Ron..........how's it hanging man..........

I assume you don't like my idea then?

 

[rebus]

The debt is secondary when you consider BFC's access to cash - or lack of it - in 2007.

That is going to be the real problem.

 

[abee]

I assume you don't like my idea then?

Gotya.......now I know you're not Ron........if you were Ron you wouldn't be talking to me........

So who are you then.........hmmm...........I've heard that very suggestion before........wait it'll come to me.......bingo...... December 30 2001..........you're Eddie aren't you.........Eddie Rogers..........

 

[abee]

The debt is secondary when you consider BFC's access to cash - or lack of it - in 2007.

That is going to be the real problem.

Well you try tellin' 'em Mark. I gave it a go on another thread but the penny hasn't dropped.

If the debt was repaid in full this afternoon we would under the current brilliant management and ownership still be left with a club with no debt but with a core built in year on year loss of circa £500k and a squad of players who don't seem to be good enough for a tilt at the Conference title let alone survival in League One or League Two. The ongoing losses cannot therefore be "funded" given that we are working to this wonderful new community model which means that nobody however well cashed up they are (and certainly not if your first name begins with a "G" and your last name with a "D" ) has to put any monies in ......ever.

It's Alice In Wonderland stuff

 

[wanderer paul]

abee may correct me but isn't Ian Jones' company on the board for 200k not the 250k mentioned by GeeBee, i'm sure you corrected me before......

SpiderBee is a nasty piece of work D ) from the 70's-80's hoodlums.......no doubt knows dear Dougie White from the 'Mentals' days...........

Only kidding Chris (spiderbee).............. beffore i get the wrath of Spider put upon me again........................ we're up sh!t creek mate without the paddle too.........................

 

[abee]

abee may correct me but isn't Ian Jones' company on the board for 200k not the 250k mentioned by GeeBee, i'm sure you corrected me before......

Yes, 7H UK Ltd (represented by Ian Jones) has a loan for £200k. Dyke has £100k, Rogers has a total of £200k and Herting has £250k.

 

[Nurse Betty]

Yes, 7H UK Ltd (represented by Ian Jones) has a loan for £200k. Dyke has £100k, Rogers has a total of £200k and Herting has £250k.

At the risk of repeating my post on another thread, how about Dyke, 7H and Rogers all putting in the outstanding monies for a seat on the board i.e. £100k and £50k x 2?

 

[wanderer paul]

At the risk of repeating my post on another thread, how about Dyke, 7H and Rogers all putting in the outstanding monies for a seat on the board i.e. £100k and £50k x 2?

another 200k onto the 9 mill, or so, debt won't make much difference, add on Mr Benham's 500k stand by which the Directors will no doubt call on sometime soon.....so now we're at the 10 million mark................. yessssssss double figures !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well done BU !!!!!!

 

[Brickie Chap]

At the risk of repeating my post on another thread, how about Dyke, 7H and Rogers all putting in the outstanding monies for a seat on the board i.e. £100k and £50k x 2?

 

[WILTSHIREBEE]

Potential is the word everyones looking for....................................and we aint got any unless we sell our only asset.

 

[westbaybee]

has anyone written to cameron diaz....?

 

[Thorne In The Side]

has anyone written to cameron diaz....?

I have but it got me a restraining order.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I have but it got me a restraining order.

Shame 'cos you could have sold her panties on ebay when you'd "finished" with them.

 

[Thorne In The Side]

Shame 'cos you could have sold her panties on ebay when you'd "finished" with them.

I was going to do just that but you never returned them.......when you do I have those roast potatoes that I've put to one side for you from Christmas Day.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I was going to do just that but you never returned them.......when you do I have those roast potatoes that I've put to one side for you from Christmas Day.

They're chafing a bit after all that Christmas food. Might have to take them off in the New Year.

 

[westbaybee]

i've lost the plot now, whats ms diazs' panties got to do with roast potatoes?

 

[Thorne In The Side]

They're chafing a bit after all that Christmas food. Might have to take them off in the New Year.

Hang on a minute, that's two posts that we've conducted without having a pop at each other.....It's the season to be jolly.
Carry on like this and I'll be putting a bit of Christmas cake to one side with those roasties.

 

[Thorne In The Side]

i've lost the plot now, whats ms diazs' panties got to do with roast potatoes?

Leave the roasties out for a couple of weeks and they end up smelling like her panties.....get it?

 

[westbaybee]

maybe if we tell her that she'll invest squills in her fav football club. right am off to see how charlton get on tonite - a team that got rid of their not very good inexperienced manager....

 

[SpiderBee]

Gotya.......now I know you're not Ron........if you were Ron you wouldn't be talking to me........

So who are you then.........hmmm...........I've heard that very suggestion before........wait it'll come to me.......bingo...... December 30 2001..........you're Eddie aren't you.........Eddie Rogers..........

Who???
You know who I am don't you.
I'm a nobody supporter!

 

[SpiderBee]

abee may correct me but isn't Ian Jones' company on the board for 200k not the 250k mentioned by GeeBee, i'm sure you corrected me before......

SpiderBee is a nasty piece of work D ) from the 70's-80's hoodlums.......no doubt knows dear Dougie White from the 'Mentals' days...........

Only kidding Chris (spiderbee).............. beffore i get the wrath of Spider put upon me again........................ we're up sh!t creek mate without the paddle too.........................

I know Doug quite well.
So?

 

[letsallgotolourdes]

Investors?

I'm amazed at the negativity and short sightedness of some of the posters on here when it comes to potential investors, all we get is "where are these multi millionaires out there willing to p**s money up against the wall, why haven't they come forward". They haven't come forward because they haven't got a clue who we are, because as a club we are too busy arguing with each other, going round in circles, shooting ourselves in the foot at every turn and all the time sinking deeper into the mire. For God's sake we've got a chairman who must have developed numerous contacts round the world through his media days, why aren't we putting pressure on him to get his finger out. If there are no interested parties in this country, well there's a big world out there, Probably the chances of another Abramovich riding in are slim but there are countless multi millionaires in Eastern Europe, I'm sure at least one of them would be interested in getting involved with an English football club, if they've got money to burn, I'd rather one of them burnt it with us rather than our hooped neighbours up the road who are even more desperate for money than ourselves. If we stand around, do nothing, eyeing up everbody suspiciously who isn't a card carrying BU member we deserve everything we get, for God's sake lets get organised and start putting feelers out before it's too late. SEEK AND YE SHALL FIND!

 

[Brain-dead Bee]

It isn't fit for purpose. In BUs first season of ownership they are taking us to a division we haven't seen for 27 years and we are now heading for our third management change of the season and we are on the worst run in our history.

If BU think what goes on, on the pitch, doesn't matter then watch the crowds fall to record lows next year.

BU has plenty of equity to play with to encourage someone who has a good deal less than £15m to burn.

What they dont have is the will or the decisiveness to do anything about it. The fact you haven't even discussed it at BU meetings says it all.

Agree with much of the above, but not the 27 years bit. Was 98-99 just a drunken dream?

However, on the main point, the problem remains the lack of a credible alternative. Our debt is crippling us, so we can't afford decent players, so we play badly lose fans, have less cash, etc, etc. That's not BU's fault, or at least not predominantly their fault

Billionaire philanthropists are hard to find. In terms of short-term cash, selling the ground would be an option (and would doubtless happen in administration). But I'm not suggesting it, as it would signal the end of club identity and trigger an immediate loss in support... unless there were a new stadium in sight for the near future, which isn't the case.

 

[abee]

However, on the main point, the problem remains the lack of a credible alternative. Our debt is crippling us, so we can't afford decent players, so we play badly lose fans, have less cash, etc, etc. That's not BU's fault, or at least not predominantly their fault

I clearly need to stress again that the club is in my judgement unmanageable in its present form and if the interest bearing debt was paid off tomorrow and we started with a clean balance sheet there would still be losses that have no obvious way of being financed. That is always the case when you have a "bust" holding company which is unable to prop up a "bust" business. I have tried to explain before that the operating loss (including interest) for this season will be around £700k by my estimates and that will for this season only be covered by transfer income........Sodje, Turner and Tabb. These monies I recall were under Dyke's earlier statements to be "substantially banked" for those seasons when we couldn't sell a player. They haven't been and like most of our chairman's statements he makes it up on the hoof without thinking it through. (There was an interesting critique of Greg Dyke in the Sunday Times a couple of months ago when he was one of half dozen in the frame for the ITV job and it concluded to the effect that he failed to achieve at the BBC by getting to grips with costs and delivering to the "holding company" (the Government). After Greg Dyke was appointed as BFC chairman someone who knows him said to me that GD's huge flaw was that he "needs to be liked and that is important to him". ) When I saw Dyke's interview after the Cheltenham game I thought that he had lost all touch with reality...........all of the bollox about a "community club" "new model for football" and he "wasn't putting any monies in 'cos that's not what the new model is about". I have seen or heard absolutely nothing to suggest that Greg Dyke has any idea how to make the best of a small business in deep, deep trouble.

The present BFC business is unsustainable in League One and probably League Two if the financial situation dictates that we have to break-even after interest. Strip out all of the debt and you still have an unsuccessful club bleeding £400k-500k a season. Sure you can solve perhaps one third of the problem on paper by releasing Skularsson, Owusu and a couple of others but the ones who are left would be struggling to keep us in League Two. The only solution is for the club to be supported by "patrons" until the question of a new stadium is sorted but of course such a course blows a hole straight through the "new model" and anyone who is asked to bankroll the club and keep it alive will just play Dyke the Cheltenham tape.

 

[Simon C]

Sure you can solve perhaps one third of the problem on paper by releasing Skularsson, Owusu and a couple of others but the ones who are left would be struggling to keep us in League Two.

Release those players and then you're stuck with Frampton, Heywood, Brooker, O'Connor, etc whose contracts extend past the present season. Nobody has learnt the danger of giving long, big money contracts and this goes right to the top.

 

[JTofBFC]

I clearly need to stress again that the club is in my judgement unmanageable in its present form and if the interest bearing debt was paid off tomorrow and we started with a clean balance sheet there would still be losses that have no obvious way of being financed. That is always the case when you have a "bust" holding company which is unable to prop up a "bust" business. I have tried to explain before that the operating loss for this season will be around £700k by my estimates and that will for this season only be covered by transfer income........Sodje, Turner and Tabb. These monies I recall were under Dyke's earlier statements to be "substantially banked" for those seasons when we couldn't sell a player. They haven't been and like most of our chairman's statements he makes it up on the hoof without thinking it through. (There was an interesting critique of Greg Dyke in the Sunday Times a couple of months ago when he was one of half dozen in the frame for the ITV job and it concluded to the effect that he failed to achieve at the BBC by getting to grips with costs and delivering to the "holding company" (the Government). After Greg Dyke was appointed as BFC chairman someone who knows him said to me that GD's huge flaw was that he "needs to be liked and that is important to him". )

The present BFC business is unsustainable in League One and probably League Two if the financial situation dictates that we have to break-even after interest. Strip out all of the debt and you still have an unsuccessful club bleeding £400k-500k a season. Sure you can solve perhaps one third of the problem on paper by releasing Skularsson, Owusu and a couple of others but the ones who are left would be struggling to keep us in League Two.

Dont disagree with any of that abee but what is the solution? We can keep going on ad infinitum about what the problems are and how we can't get out of the mess under the present rules but what do we do?

I've been banging on until I'm blue in the face to anyone who will listen that I think BU should be getting investment in by chucking in some of their equity rather than just cutting costs but I don't really know if anyone wants to buy/swap any.

You are pretty close to all this stuff and you must have some views on what can be done to start turning things around.

Is it time for BU to admit failure with the fan run club experiment or is there another way?

Do we have the fans with money out there who will prop things up without wanting to take overall control of everything including the ground?

 

[Simon C]

Dont disagree with any of that abee but what is the solution? We can keep going on ad infinitum about what the problems are and how we can't get out of the mess under the present rules but what do we do?

I've been banging on until I'm blue in the face to anyone who will listen that I think BU should be getting investment in by chucking in some of their equity rather than just cutting costs but I don't really know if anyone wants to buy/swap any.

You are pretty close to all this stuff and you must have some views on what can be done to start turning things around.

Is it time for BU to admit failure with the fan run club experiment or is there another way?

Do we have the fans with money out there who will prop things up without wanting to take overall control of everything including the ground?

Why are we losing money each year? Have BU got on top of the spending at the club? Has Dickens made a difference there or not? We are always chucking more money at the wage budget. Under Allen it was to keep us at the top, now it's to keep us away from the bottom.

 

[abee]

Dont disagree with any of that abee but what is the solution?

The only solution is for the club to be supported by "patrons" until the question of a new stadium is sorted but of course such a course blows a hole straight through the "new model" and anyone who is asked to bankroll the club and keep it alive will just play Dyke the Cheltenham tape.

I added this after you "captured my original post.

 

[abee]

Is it time for BU to admit failure with the fan run club experiment or is there another way?

I have absolutely no idea of what the holding company (Bees United) expects the board of its subsidiary to deliver and I have been banging on about this for months and until everyone has got a headache. What does Bees United want exactly........save our League One status at any price........take an axe to the costs/playing budget and let the club find its own level according to its resources.......assume more unsecured debt from "patrons" who could only be repaid if Griffin Park is eventually sold and if it isn't they lose all of their "investment/patronage".

It is simply no use asking me or anyone else what I would do.........it's nothing to do with me.........it is the responsibility of the holding company to outline exactly the parameters by which it wants the club to be run. If they do that then I'll tell you what needs to be done .....I haven't failed yet to salvage a business that I have taken on but more often than not I don't take the job on because the owners have no idea where they want to be or if they do have a glimmer on that they can't tell me how much pain they are prepared to absorb to get there. If Bees United's solution of course includes running at recurring losses then the response from me or anyone else will be "Fine, I can do that but it will require an investment of £200k/£500k/£1m per season to achieve or attempt to reach your goals and I expect to see that amount in cash from you annually and in advance".

 

[JTofBFC]

The only solution is for the club to be supported by "patrons" until the question of a new stadium is sorted but of course such a course blows a hole straight through the "new model" and anyone who is asked to bankroll the club and keep it alive will just play Dyke the Cheltenham tape.

So who are these "patrons" and are we in a position to get thir support under the current model.

To be perfectly honest against a background of supporters consistently dipping into their pockets for buckets, standing orders and now transfer pots, I see precious little evidence of any patrons willing to put the sort of cash up that will make any difference.

Are they out there and if so under what terms do they enter the fray? Whay has it been left so late; ie until we are as good as down if they really are out there and willing to help. As far as I can tell so far, the required help from the "patrons" has not been forthcoming because it has not been sought by BU.

Surely something about the model has to change if this is going to work?

I'm just interested in your views. If I had £1m burning a hole in my pocket I would want a share of the ownership at the very least whether that came with or without the ground.

 

[JTofBFC]

It is absolutely no use asking me or anyone else what I would do.........it's nothing to do with me.........it is the responsibility of the holding company to outline exactly the parameters by which it wants the club to be run. If they do that then I'll tell you what needs to be done. If Bees United's solution of course includes running at recurring losses then the response from me or anyone else will be "Fine, I can do that but it will require and investment of £200k/£500k/£1m per season to aachieve or attempt to reach your goals.

I'm only asking you abee because it's impossible to get any sense or even an opinion from anyone in BU. Personally I think the "holding Company" is drowning and will never be able to get a concensus from its Board on what direction to take.

You say if we run at an annual loss of £200/£500/£1m it will require investment. Do you think that investment can be found and if so under what terms?

 

[abee]

I'm only asking you abee because it's impossible to get any sense or even an opinion from anyone in BU. Personally I think the "holding Company" is drowning and will never be able to get a concensus from its Board on what direction to take.

You say if we run at an annual loss of £200/£500/£1m it will require investment. Do you think that investment can be found and if so under what terms?

I agree with you JTofBFC. I do this stuff for a fairly decent living and it was blindingly obvious to me back in March 2003 that Bees United did not understand what needed to be done and if they did had neither the will nor the talent to do it. I submit that the problem was manageable then but Bees United was happy to turn "larrysigny" loose on me and given his "name" and the perception that he had an "in" at the club and therefore knew what he was talking about I turned out to be wasting my time and energies and hacked off a lot of people whilst I was about it.

The losses that I gave were examples only and I have no idea what questions Keith Dickens asked or what sort of delivery package he was expected to come up with. If Bees United said to me......"We will pump £200k into the club every season.......what does that buy us...."........I could tell them. Likewise as you move up the "investment scale".

You and I can sit in front of our computer screens and pontificate all day long. It makes not a scrap of difference. Once more..........if Bees United tells me what sort of "investment" it has available/can find then I'll tell them for free exactly what can be done with the business........although they must already know surely to God. It's not for me to go out and pull their chestnuts out of a fire that has suddenly got too hot for them.

 

[BoroBee]

I agree with you JTofBFC. I do this stuff for a fairly decent living and it was blindingly obvious to me back in March 2003 that Bees United did not understand what needed to be done and if they did had neither the will nor the talent to do it. I submit that the problem was manageable then but Bees United was happy to turn "larrysigny" loose on me and given his "name" and the perception that he had an "in" at the club and therefore knew what he was talking about I turned out to be wasting my time and energies and hacked off a lot of people whilst I was about it.

The losses that I gave were examples only and I have no idea what questions Keith Dickens asked or what sort of delivery package he was expected to come up with. If Bees United said to me......"We will pump £200k into the club every season.......what does that buy us...."........I could tell them. Likewise as you move up the "investment scale".

You and I can sit in front of our computer screens and pontificate all day long. It makes not a scrap of difference. Once more..........if Bees United tells me what sort of "investment" it has available/can find then I'll tell them for free exactly what can be done with the business........although they must already know surely to God. It's not for me to go out and pull their chestnuts out of a fire that has suddenly got too hot for them.

I've read all your posts here and a lot of it seems to make perfect sense for a mere layman like myself. I'm sure that there are plenty of keyboard warriors out there (recovering from their Christmas dinners still) who will soon wade in and point out how wrong you are - for whatever reasons.
Brutally and honestly, what do you think the future is for Brentford Football Club, should we continue in the current manner? Will we die a slow lingering death in League 2 before collapsing into Administration?

Where does anyone find benevolent investors these days? Are there such people out there still - the sort of men (usually) who want to invest their money in a football club because they love the club? Do we have such people supporting the club? I'm aware that various people have suggested that they have large amounts of money that they are prepared to invest in the club should they believe that it would be spent wisely - what do these people need to believe in the running of our club?

I've supported BFC since I was four years old; I have sparse financial knowledge; unfortunately no money to invest and nothing to offer except to passion of my support for my club. I'm sure that there are many people such as myself, what are we expected to do except put blind faith in the people entrusted with the management of our club?

What is the answer? :shrug:

 

[abee]

What is the answer? :shrug:

We do know that Greg Dyke has a Five Year Plan (although I know no one who has seen it or is even aware of the basic details) so I suggest that you email him at the club and ask him when it started and does it have a happy ending.

 

[wayfarer172]

I'm the 1st to admit i'm a dumbo at sums and stuff. After all i was educated in Sarff london in the 50's at a local secondary school. I lived in Sydenham surrounded by C Palace, Millwall and Charlton but used to cycle all across London to watch my Bees. My question is this. Although i understand that BFC is skint, what is wrong with administration? Didn't it happen to Rotherham last year?. If it wasn't for there 10pt deduction, they would be pushing for a play off place.

 

[BoroBee]

I'm the 1st to admit i'm a dumbo at sums and stuff. After all i was educated in Sarff london in the 50's at a local secondary school. I lived in Sydenham surrounded by C Palace, Millwall and Charlton but used to cycle all across London to watch my Bees. My question is this. Although i understand that BFC is skint, what is wrong with administration? Didn't it happen to Rotherham last year?. If it wasn't for there 10pt deduction, they would be pushing for a play off place.

My understanding, from reading other threads where this is discussed is that the biggest snag in this plan is that we would be forced to sell of our main assets to cover the creditors demands. As our main asset is Griffin Park, that would leave us to pick up the pieces as a tenant of a new landlord (as Oxford Utd.) or find a new ground to play.
Correct me if I'm wrong on this, someone.