A Settled Side

[Billy Hunt]

I agree. I've watched this closely and it isn't happening. Always a big gap between the midfielders. Too many small players too - the midfielder with height is Romaine, but he doesn't jump or tackle. I think we often look open at the back too when the wing backs are pressing forward and possession is lost

Yes he does.

 

[Taunton Bee]

When has everyone been fit/available?

Things will settle now.

The back five is easy to pick - Bentley, Dalsgaard, Egan, Bjelland, Henry.
Woods and Sawyers should start in the middle with either Mokotjo or Yennaris.
Watkins, Maupay and Clarke (Jozefzoon is looking a little off-form) as the front three.

Vibe and Canos will take two of the front three spots when fit.

Problem encapsulated. I DON'T think the back five is easy to pick. Barbet should replace Bjelland. Much quicker and more well balanced. Jury out on Dalsgaard. Often caught out of position when opposition counter attack. Woods and Sawyers should start in the middle with Mokotjo (No Yennaris unless lack of form of others or injuries).

 

[Billy Hunt]

Problem encapsulated. I DON'T think the back five is easy to pick. Barbet should replace Bjelland. Much quicker and more well balanced. Jury out on Dalsgaard. Often caught out of position when opposition counter attack. Woods and Sawyers should start in the middle with Mokotjo (No Yennaris unless lack of form of others or injuries).

After Barbet's performance on Tuesday and Bjelland's on Saturday, that would be a very odd move. :scratch:
Dalsgaard is still settling in. Getting caught up-field when the oppo. counter-attack is part of the way we play. Clarke should replace Jozefzoon, so Dalsgaard has to play RB.
Mokotjo is also taking time to adjust.

We shall see on Saturday...

 

[Mr Tree]

circumstances dictate. form too. Barbet out of form, out of the team. Sawyers in good form at the start of the season, barged his way into the team. Josh Mc injured, Woods unavailable, Nico exposed, Kamo in at the deep end. you're choosing one way to judge that situation, i'm choosing another. you think yours is right, but guess what - i think mine is

 

[BFC1997]

you're choosing one way to judge that situation, i'm choosing another. you think yours is right, but guess what - i think mine is

But so far the evidence shows that Dean Smith (the only person whose opinion matters) doesn't know who his best players are.

'Nico exposed' - surely after two years DS should know how good he really is?

 

[jlove]

I think this has turned into yet another "players | like and can make into an XI" thread.

 

[Mr Tree]

But so far the evidence shows that Dean Smith (the only person whose opinion matters) doesn't know who his best players are.

no it doesn't. circumstances have forced us to shuffle the pack.

 

[BFC1997]

I think this has turned into yet another "players | like and can make into an XI" thread.

Which, as aluded to in the 'Settled Side' thread, is not helping when it changes EVERY game.

Dean Smith needs a clear idea of his best players.

 

[BFC1997]

no it doesn't. circumstances have forced us to shuffle the pack.

But as I keep saying: when everyone has been fit the players have still been rotating!

 

[Billy Hunt]

But as I keep saying: when everyone has been fit the players have still been rotating!

When has everyone been fit/available?

Team selections before the transfer window closed are irrelevant.

 

[Frothybaby]

I did read that we were looking to rotate. I guess this should be the best tactic over a season, but you need more than two for every position. The benefit should be a strong end to the season. The weakness is a loss of confidence and time needed to bed in. Sales and injuries mean we struggle to have two quality experienced players for each position.

Bentley should start with Dalsgaard, Egan and Henry. Clarke could play right back but I think hime and Dalsgaard are a better combination than FloJo and Clark. I don't see Shaibu has it yet, so Maupay starts up front. Clarke on one wing and Watkins on the other. There is an option of Flojo coming on and Watkins moving into centre later on. So this brings us to the middle three. I have been a supporter (maybe more in hope than judgement) of MacEachren, but he needs movement and gaps, which we can't seem to create at present. Woods has looked good and ups the tempo that we need. Sawyers has been one of our top performers, and has to start. This then leaves it down to Moko and Nico. Both have high work rates. Yennaris will score but doesn't have Jota picking him out, and Moko isn't up to speed and can't keep it up for a full game. Nico is one of those players that you miss when he isn't there. The team plays better with him playing, but his form is suffering this season. I would go with Moko and Nico as a sub option.

Maybe the problem is you should pick a team on it's parts but not as a process of elimination. :drinker:

 

[jlove]

Which, as aluded to in the 'Settled Side' thread, is not helping when it changes EVERY game.

Dean Smith needs a clear idea of his best players.

What makes you think he hasn't? I'd guess Judge is one of his best players... The point is that he needs a clear idea, with the other coaching staff and informed by the analysts, of his best formation, style and tactics with that; then he will look at the players available for a match and make the choice. You make it sound like the selection is "he brought the ball, so he's got to start; he buys the first round, so...", like when I played.

 

[Billy Hunt]

I did read that we were looking to rotate. I guess this should be the best tactic over a season, but you need more than two for every position. The benefit should be a strong end to the season. The weakness is a loss of confidence and time needed to bed in. Sales and injuries mean we struggle to have two quality experienced players for each position.

Bentley should start with Dalsgaard, Egan and Henry. Clarke could play right back but I think hime and Dalsgaard are a better combination than FloJo and Clark. I don't see Shaibu has it yet, so Maupay starts up front. Clarke on one wing and Watkins on the other. There is an option of Flojo coming on and Watkins moving into centre later on. So this brings us to the middle three. I have been a supporter (maybe more in hope than judgement) of MacEachren, but he needs movement and gaps, which we can't seem to create at present. Woods has looked good and ups the tempo that we need. Sawyers has been one of our top performers, and has to start. This then leaves it down to Moko and Nico. Both have high work rates. Yennaris will score but doesn't have Jota picking him out, and Moko isn't up to speed and can't keep it up for a full game. Nico is one of those players that you miss when he isn't there. The team plays better with him playing, but his form is suffering this season. I would go with Moko and Nico as a sub option.

Maybe the problem is you should pick a team on it's parts but not as a process of elimination. :drinker:

Bjelland or Barbet? :looks:

 

[Frothybaby]

Oh yeah, thanks Billy. I think Barbet will become the permanent centreback, but I think Bjelland is the experience we need among the youngsters. I thought Sawyers would be important this season, and I think Bjelland could prove to be the player we wanted. Mind you I did bet on Vibe being top scorer and Brentford being promoted (handicap). lol What do I know? :shrug:

 

[BFC1997]

When has everyone been fit/available?

Team selections before the transfer window closed are irrelevant.

Aston Villa: Egan + Barbet at CB
Sheffield Wednesday: Egan + Barbet at CB
Reading: Egan + Bjelland at CB
Norwich: Mepham + Barbet at CB

All four were fit throughout that entire period.

Aston Villa: Sawyers, Woods, Nico at CM
Sheffield Wednesday: Sawyers, Woods, Nico at CM
Reading: Mokotjo, Woods, Sawyers at CM
Norwich: Mokotjo, Nico, McEachran at CM

All 5 were fit throughout that entire period.

Ipswich: Maupay Started upfront
All games previous: Vibe started up front

Both were fit until that point.

That's CB, CM and CF all rotating when everyone is fit.

Now, considering that we also had that month where we were also rotating the rest of the team with players such as Dean, Canos, Jota, Colin etc. who are now injured/gone, it makes me wonder why we are still changing it up. It's definitely unsettling.

We've got McLeod and Judge* to throw into the mix yet, it won't help their recovery to come into a team that doesn't know who is playing one game to the next.

Let's hope it does settle down in the next few games. Unless we start winning there will be continued pressure to change things every week but hopefully DS realises he's got to stick with something soon.

*Oh, and Marcondes!

 

[Mr Tree]

But as I keep saying: when everyone has been fit the players have still been rotating!

because they haven't performed to the expected standard, in the case of Barbet and Yennaris. any others?

 

[Mr Tree]

are you high? :scratch:
i can't think of another reason for you counting the Norwich game

 

[Frothybaby]

In the pre-season, Josh Mac along with Moko seemed to work well, and they played with Sawyers. I think that was DS first choice in midfield, but he was relaxed with bringing in Woods or Nico as well. Then the season started.

 

[jlove]

If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.

 

[Taunton Bee]

After Barbet's performance on Tuesday and Bjelland's on Saturday, that would be a very odd move. :scratch:
Dalsgaard is still settling in. Getting caught up-field when the oppo. counter-attack is part of the way we play. Clarke should replace Jozefzoon, so Dalsgaard has to play RB.
Mokotjo is also taking time to adjust.

We shall see on Saturday...

Hi Billy,
We've just had a reasonable discussion.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Aston Villa: Egan + Barbet at CB
Sheffield Wednesday: Egan + Barbet at CB
Reading: Egan + Bjelland at CB
Norwich: Mepham + Barbet at CB

All four were fit throughout that entire period.

Aston Villa: Sawyers, Woods, Nico at CM
Sheffield Wednesday: Sawyers, Woods, Nico at CM
Reading: Mokotjo, Woods, Sawyers at CM
Norwich: Mokotjo, Nico, McEachran at CM

All 5 were fit throughout that entire period.

Ipswich: Maupay Started upfront
All games previous: Vibe started up front

Both were fit until that point.

That's CB, CM and CF all rotating when everyone is fit.

Now, considering that we also had that month where we were also rotating the rest of the team with players such as Dean, Canos, Jota, Colin etc. who are now injured/gone, it makes me wonder why we are still changing it up. It's definitely unsettling.

We've got McLeod and Judge* to throw into the mix yet, it won't help their recovery to come into a team that doesn't know who is playing one game to the next.

Let's hope it does settle down in the next few games. Unless we start winning there will be continued pressure to change things every week but hopefully DS realises he's got to stick with something soon.

*Oh, and Marcondes!

It'll start settling now, I reckon.

I don't think using the team selection for the Norwich game is relevant.

Barbet was dropped after Sheff. Weds. No problem with that. The goals we conceded were dreadful, and maybe we needed the older head of Bjelland in there. Not saying Barbet was to blame, but perhaps a bit more organisation was what Smith was after.

Mokotjo is being eased in to the side. He himself has stated the huge difference in intensity in the Championship compared with the Dutch Eredivisie. Until he's fully up to speed, I'd expect to see Yennaris starting (or replacing him from the bench) quite a bit.

Vibe was looking out of form and low on confidence, so was dropped for the Ipswich game. :shrug: Then he got injured. :grey:

I get that you're hurting (we all are, a little bit, if totally honest) but we have to keep faith with the way we do things, and afford the team/coaching staff a little patience. I believe things will come good.

 

[BFC1997]

we have to keep faith with the way we do things, and afford the team/coaching staff a little patience. I believe things will come good.

It helps if the coach has faith in his idea of a starting XI

As I say, I hope it settles. The point of this thread is to highlight that it hasn't been settled to now.

 

[BFC1997]

are you high? :scratch:
i can't think of another reason for you counting the Norwich game

We're not winning matches, partly because we don't have a settled side.

So why (against strong opposition) did we feel it necessary to change it all again?

 

[Billy Hunt]

It helps if the coach has faith in his idea of a starting XI.

He has to give the new boys time to settle. Players losing form and injuries to experienced players - Canos & Vibe - have made that harder.

As I say, I hope it settles.

We all hope results will improve. Performances have been good.

The point of this thread is to highlight that it hasn't been settled to now.

I think your point has been made.

 

[Billy Hunt]

We're not winning matches, partly because we don't have a settled side.

So why (against strong opposition) did we feel it necessary to change it all again?

Possibly, yes, but as you say, that is only a part of the problem.

We made a load of changes cos it was the League Cup, like we did in the previous rounds, and the League is prioritised. :shrug:

 

[Billy Hunt]

Hi Billy,
We've just had a reasonable discussion.

:laugh:
Weird, innit? :laugh:

 

[Rob-BEE]

The majority of the "overachievers" mentioned in the original post relied on a settled XI but with little strength in depth. I doubt, for example, Leicester would have won the league if any of their key players picked up a long term injury. I would argue those settled XIs were born more out of necessity, and have arisen from a "perfect storm" of having a strong set of players who play well together coupled with the good fortune of having everyone available every week. The Liverpool side of 2013/14 is another example of this.

I believe it's more important to have a settled "core" rather than a settled XI. Perhaps 8 or 9 that are automatic selections with others coming in depending on form, fitness and the way we want to tactically set up for a particular match. Ideally that core would have a settled back 5 which we've clearly lacked this season, but I think it's unfair to blame Smith for that given the injuries and transfers, not to mention inconsistent individual performances. In reality we're probably now coming to a point where, injuries aside, the back 5 should start to stay consistent (probably dependent on Bjelland or Barbet playing well enough to hold down the left-sided CB slot).

I think, even with the loss of three of our best players in August, that we still have a stronger squad overall than last season (i.e. a stronger bench) although that's on the assumption that everyone is fit and available (except perhaps Judge who's been out for so long we can probably exclude for this purpose). In the vast majority of cases, success over a season is dependent on the squad rather than the team so I'm less bothered about seeing the same 11 players on the pitch every week and more concerned with how the squad is utilised to ensure we get the best out of the players we have and can adapt to the different strengths and weaknesses of our opponents.

 

[The Pipe]

Aston Villa: Egan + Barbet at CB
Sheffield Wednesday: Egan + Barbet at CB
Reading: Egan + Bjelland at CB
Norwich: Mepham + Barbet at CB

All four were fit throughout that entire period.

Aston Villa: Sawyers, Woods, Nico at CM
Sheffield Wednesday: Sawyers, Woods, Nico at CM
Reading: Mokotjo, Woods, Sawyers at CM
Norwich: Mokotjo, Nico, McEachran at CM

All 5 were fit throughout that entire period.

Ipswich: Maupay Started upfront
All games previous: Vibe started up front

Both were fit until that point.

That's CB, CM and CF all rotating when everyone is fit.

Now, considering that we also had that month where we were also rotating the rest of the team with players such as Dean, Canos, Jota, Colin etc. who are now injured/gone, it makes me wonder why we are still changing it up. It's definitely unsettling.

We've got McLeod and Judge* to throw into the mix yet, it won't help their recovery to come into a team that doesn't know who is playing one game to the next.

Let's hope it does settle down in the next few games. Unless we start winning there will be continued pressure to change things every week but hopefully DS realises he's got to stick with something soon.

*Oh, and Marcondes!

When you say " all fit" that is a presumption as players could be feeling a niggle or even have flu!!

As supporters we have no specific knowledge of what players might be carrying knocks and how they have performed in training.

To say Smith and the coaches don't know their best team as it's continually being changed is, I feel, a bit simplistic

 

[Mr Tree]

We're not winning matches, partly because we don't have a settled side.

So why (against strong opposition) did we feel it necessary to change it all again?

per Billy, it was bloody obvious. it was a 50-50 split on here, whether to go for it and try to build momentum, or rotate / rest / try other players. obviously Deano went for the latter. needed to try Mepham out, needed to give Josh a start, needed to rest Woods/Sawyers, etc... they're justifiable, whether or not you like or agree with the justification

 

[BFC1997]

We made a load of changes cos it was the League Cup?

I know, I'm just asking the question whether that's the right thing to do given the side is already unsettled.

You say we made changes in the league cup's previous rounds... but again it was a different combination, including many players that are starting matches now.

All just seems a bit of a mess for me.

 

[BFC1997]

When you say " all fit" that is a presumption as players could be feeling a niggle or even have flu!!

So we blame the changes every week on the flu?

When I say they have all been fit, they've either been on the pitch or on the bench. Surely they can't be unavailable for selection and on the bech?

 

[BFC1997]

per Billy, it was bloody obvious. it was a 50-50 split on here, whether to go for it and try to build momentum, or rotate / rest / try other players. obviously Deano went for the latter. needed to try Mepham out, needed to give Josh a start, needed to rest Woods/Sawyers, etc... they're justifiable, whether or not you like or agree with the justification

I know, and the point of this thread is to highlight why we shouldn't have done so. Do you agree we should have played a stronger team to help settle them? Do you really think 'resting' them on Tuesday will benefit us on Saturday? (I think we'll win anyway)

 

[Isleworth_Bee]

How can we have a settled side when we keep losing them to injury. Lets get the result on Saturday and get some confidence into the squad. Returns from injury and another international break will see us recover.

 

[Mr Tree]

Do you agree we should have played a stronger team to help settle them?
Do you really think 'resting' them on Tuesday will benefit us on Saturday? (I think we'll win anyway)

no
yes

 

[BFC1997]

How can we have a settled side when we keep losing them to injury. Lets get the result on Saturday and get some confidence into the squad. Returns from injury and another international break will see us recover.

As previously highlighted, even when everyone in a certain position has been fit, we have rotated them too much

 

[Billy Hunt]

All just seems a bit of a mess for me.

I know.
I think you should probably let this go now. Your point has been made.
I understand what you're saying, and I happen to agree, to an extent, but I don't think it's something to get so worked up about.

Aston Villa used only 14 players when they won the League in 1981. They played 42 league games, back then...

How many did Man. Utd. use in 2008/9? 33. And in 2010/11? 29.
How many players did Chelsea use in 2009/10? 30.

I have no qualms over the team selection for any of the League Cup games. It was always going to be that way. :shrug:

This thread has nothing new to be added.

 

[BFC1997]

Your point has been made.
I understand what you're saying, and I happen to agree, to an extent

Perfect!

 

[Billy Hunt]

Perfect!

Thank you.

I don't think berating DS for not picking a settled side, thus far, is fair, but I do think we will benefit from a bit of consistency in selection.

 

[IDontBeeLieveIt]

Thank you.

I don't think berating DS for not picking a settled side, thus far, is fair, but I do think we will benefit from a bit of consistency in selection.

I agree generally although, as I mentioned pre-match, I do think he missed a trick not playing his planned XI for Saturday, to give them more match-time together (and then sub off people in danger of being tired).