Andy Scott

[Doovster]

And Peterborough and Hull and Burnley and... the list is endless.

There are as many occasions as well when a change of manager has had the opposite effect and elevated a side up the table or saved them from relegation.

I am actually in the 'give him more time camp' right now but as I have said in a previous post things have not been great now for 30 plus games.

Everyone whether pro or anti Scott seems to agree that our style of play and lack of ability to change style/tactics etc is the main problem.

The big question is how long does he get? I think we need to have at least seen some sign of improvement/change within the next 4 games. If we have seen improvement in style, regardless of whether we win, lose or draw I will stand by him.

If we continue to play the way we are and the manager continues to to tell us how we were the better team and should've won then I personally think the game's up.

 

[hatfieldbee]

I really don't give a feck about other teams and what they've done. I could mention Fulham getting in Woy at a time when they virtually relegated, Norwich, but who cares.
We are sh*t at the moment and need something to happen before another season gets pissed away.

There's always black or white with some people, never a shade of grey.

Just to clarify my point of view, this doesn't mean I don't care, as some would read into that comment of mine (of course I do, having actively supported the Bees since 1969, who wouldn't?), but I/We have seen the problems that occur with knee jerk reactions at other clubs, in the vast majority of cases making those, and other (financial) ones, even worse. See my post 467.

 

[brooks]

And Peterborough and Hull and Burnley and... the list is endless.

It's only fair to point out that they are all doing better than Brentford.

 

[nick logan]

It's only fair to point out that they are all doing better than Brentford.

rofl
They have all just been relegated

 

[brooks]

rofl
They have all just been relegated but are still above Brentford.

 

[nick logan]

They have just been relegated, how was that "doing better" ? You have lost me. if you mean they are higher than us you only drop one division at a time in Hull and Burnley's case.

 

[Sunbury Bee]

I have said it before & I will say it again now the make up of this squad is wrong. We have no real attacking pace in the team apart from Myles. Charlie and Alexander are too similar to play together and are quite easy to play against as you can play high up the pitch against them as you know they are not going to beat you for pace.
Centre Midfield is all wrong but this has been done to death already.
The wingers I think will be OK although I have my doubts about Adams who IMO has been poor so far. However they need the right service 1st!
Defence is fine. KO has been superb so far this season and Woodman has been the best of AS signings so far and I am surprised about the stick he has taken on here. He was IMO easy our MOM at Orient and I think can only get better.
As for AS well I am unsure at the moment. I couldn't believe he dropped Lee and I was also very surprised that Saunders didn't make the bench after Tuesday's performance. To put Hudson in ahead of him I don't think does AS any favours. He clearly has his favourites and Saunders does not appear to be one of them!!
Performances have to improve and AS put this squad together so the buck stops with him. Personally I didn't expect the play offs this season even with the increased budget but I did expect us to be very competitive and play a better style of football to last season but so far this has not happened. To go to Orient and not even make the goalie make a save is just not acceptable. The next couple of weeks will be crucial!

 

[Bill Benn]

Sometimes I wonder why I read this garbage. And I conclude: actually, I rather enjoy reading the GPG. Some of you are funny and witty and droll. Some of you write very good match reports. Some of you - but by no means all - appear to know a little about the game and have access to behind-the-scenes information. By and large GPGers appear to be an amiable bunch, if at times a little nutty about following a group of overgrown schoolboys kicking a ball around a park, but then it's a nuttiness I share.

Many of you, to be sure, appear to suffer from absurd mood swings, veering from euphoria on, say, a Tuesday night, to black-dog hangovers the following Friday. And sometimes these mood swings can veer over into distinct unpleasantness. But overall the sense is of a more or less happy family grouped around a shared interest, and I'm happy to be a part of you.

Respects to you all. But give the manager a break, will you?

This is a fans forum,what do you expect?but thanks for the respect.

 

[scruff puppy pup]

sacking the manager in a knee jerk reaction has rarely worked before. Ask Charlton and Southampton amongst many others.

It worked brilliantly for Norwich City.
It's not the sacking, it's the replacing, that's the key.
My gut feeling is that Andy has a pretty good eye for a player, but is tactically not smart enough. He's put together a decent squad of players, but is not the man to get the most out of them.

 

[beebopalula]

Didn't hear you complaining about us not playing good football last season. Football's about results and doing well in league one you need good contacts and be able to find up and coming players, I don't think Arsene Wenger phoned up Scott and said 'please take this goalkeeper'. Saying we relied on Chesney is a bit harsh on Legge, Kev, Charlie, Dickson and others.

I'm afraid I did Westlad on this forum and took some stick. I made the point then that teams which don't score goals don't win games and so it has proved over the last 30. I'd rather win one in three than draw two and lose one. I accepted that last year AS had to do a belt and braces to survive and it was a short term success, Now he's got a good squad , the oppo has sussed us and the results are crap [ exclude the CC which is of no relevance to me]. No one can say this year's league form has been acceptable so I'd give him til the end of October. That said I expect him to go 4-5-1 at Brighton and get a point.

 

[RoyalOakBee]

Of course, if AS had selected Lee and there'd still been the 0-1 scoreline, the know-it-alls would have been baying: what a clanger, bringing back Lee on the basis of a one-day wonder performance whereas the brilliant Hamer, total clean sheet so far, blah blah blah...

There are the posters like the above who think they know better than the manager; there are the posters who think the defence has been shedding goals (the reality is one goal shed in four league games); there are the posters who want AS to be ritually humiliated with a public confession of wrong-doing...

Sometimes I wonder why I read this garbage.

I dont believe I know better than the manager at all but when I go to football I like to watch the game not scream and shout at a load of fans who have come to see their team. What I saw pre season and in the first two games at home was simply awful. I have watched better football from Scotish Premier sides this season!!!! (And I am not talking about Rangers or Celtic).

The arguement about the midfield is a pointless one because the two CM's spend most of the game watching the ball sail over their heads from the centre backs and goalkeeper.

Jonathan Greening from Fulham showed what a midfielder should be about.
Arteta, Neville, Pienaar all did the same last week.

AS follows a route one approach to getting the ball into the final third and then out to the wingers. Its sh*t to watch, it has so far this season been ineffective more often than effective and more to the point he has spent
£3.5M on a squad that includes two ageing forwards who can only play twenty minutes each eight games into the season ffs.
AS gave those two a contract so if McDonald and Alexander are not scoring goals and he can only turn to these two then he is fecked. Whose fault is that?

Finally and this is where the AS lovers have got to get real................

Where did we get £3.5M pounds to spend on our playing budget?

We Borrowed it from Matthew Benham! Bees United will say it is not a loan but if we do not meet expectations this season who will underwriting the losses? We need to be challenging for the playoffs to get 6500 crowds for our home games and after 8 games we are almost certainly not able to reach the playoffs without an unbeaten run of unparralled proportions.

AS Managerial record gives him a 40% win record so out of 38 remaining games we can realistically expect to win 14 games leaving 24 games that if we equally split as draws and defeats would give us 60 points at the end of the season.

If you are happy with that total then fine but I would not be!!!!

 

[hatfieldbee]

Thoroughly agree with all of this. It's an expensive business firing a manager. Some posters have said there were plenty of other managers out there who could turn this around (presumably quicker than AS), but are they in work (compensation to be paid), out of work (why?), and who are the names in mind?

Still no idea who the AS out brigade have in mind to replace him if he were to go. Perhaps, after all, there is no one better available. After all, no (new) appointment is going to bee guaranteed to bee a success is it?

 

[Westlad]

I have said it before & I will say it again now the make up of this squad is wrong. We have no real attacking pace in the team apart from Myles. Charlie and Alexander are too similar to play together and are quite easy to play against as you can play high up the pitch against them as you know they are not going to beat you for pace.
Centre Midfield is all wrong but this has been done to death already.
The wingers I think will be OK although I have my doubts about Adams who IMO has been poor so far. However they need the right service 1st!
Defence is fine. KO has been superb so far this season and Woodman has been the best of AS signings so far and I am surprised about the stick he has taken on here. He was IMO easy our MOM at Orient and I think can only get better.
As for AS well I am unsure at the moment. I couldn't believe he dropped Lee and I was also very surprised that Saunders didn't make the bench after Tuesday's performance. To put Hudson in ahead of him I don't think does AS any favours. He clearly has his favourites and Saunders does not appear to be one of them!!
Performances have to improve and AS put this squad together so the buck stops with him. Personally I didn't expect the play offs this season even with the increased budget but I did expect us to be very competitive and play a better style of football to last season but so far this has not happened. To go to Orient and not even make the goalie make a save is just not acceptable. The next couple of weeks will be crucial!

It's more the make up of the current starting XI is wrong, with the exception of centre midfield (attacking) we've got a very good squad, although I'm not his biggest fan Weston and Simpson are definitely good enough to take us to the next level and Wood/Saunders offer good back-up, Toumani does his job really well and rarely has a bad game but playing him with Kev in a normal league game, combined with Weston being double marked means Charlie and Alexander (who as you say are too similar) spend the whole game chasing lost causes and we have no attacking threat. We always look alot more like scoring when Forster comes on for Alexander. It's not the perfect partnership but we'd get more goals than we do now.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Still no idea who the AS out brigade have in mind to replace him if he were to go. Perhaps, after all, there is no one better available. After all, no (new) appointment is going to bee guaranteed to bee a success is it?

I've put up a few suggestions over the weeks, this is new Brentford where we worry niot about compensating clubs.
If I was a manager and was asked how much I needed to get out of this league and replied 3.5 mill please, I would have a smile ready to say that I didn't say which way when we are so poor and only off the bottom on goal difference when I had got my wish.

One was Buckle, I've never seen Torquay play but you read good things about him, he presents himself well and has achieved legend status for 2 clubs in the South West. All that plus he was an ex Bee, bods I know who saw them thrash Northampton 3-0, who weren't tired yesterday after their heroics in the week, suggested that they passed and ran at them from all angles and only losing by 3 flattered them. Surely he is worth a look.

 

[RoyalOakBee]

I don't think that is reasonable. 10-12 games is often said to be the point at which you first get a fair idea of how the season is likely to go but it's too early to dismiss a manager who needs a longer time period to turn things around. If the situation is still dire at Christmas and the possibility of relegation arises then a managerial change can be considered. This gives the new man time to sort things out. Even so it can be done much later as we all know from experience. Scott should be given a chance to work on the problems .

Brooks can I talk you through my observations on some of your thoughts.

I could see after two home games how this was going to pan out and someone who studies the game like MB does will also have been making notes.

The Christmas consideration is for a team that wants to avoid relegation. We wont get relegated this season even if AS stays. That is not the point.
This squad has been assembled at a cost £3.5M ffs how many times does this have to be repeated? Its a squad for pushing for the play offs not for fighting relegation. So timing for changing the Manager is dependant on whether the team looks capable of achieving its objective. The earlier you spot that it is not the better. Norwich proved that last season afetr one game and we all thought Delia had been at the Vino again.

Scott should be given time to work on the problems you say.
Well as far as I can see it AS is the problem!

Poor Man management skills. Poor Recruitment record. Poor Tactical knowledge. No Plan B. Stubborness. Arrogance.

He has a lot to sort out by Tues!

 

[Bill Benn]

I dont believe I know better than the manager at all but when I go to football I like to watch the game not scream and shout at a load of fans who have come to see their team. What I saw pre season and in the first two games at home was simply awful. I have watched better football from Scotish Premier sides this season!!!! (And I am not talking about Rangers or Celtic).

The arguement about the midfield is a pointless one because the two CM's spend most of the game watching the ball sail over their heads from the centre backs and goalkeeper.

Jonathan Greening from Fulham showed what a midfielder should be about.
Arteta, Neville, Pienaar all did the same last week.

AS follows a route one approach to getting the ball into the final third and then out to the wingers. Its sh*t to watch, it has so far this season been ineffective more often than effective and more to the point he has spent
£3.5M on a squad that includes two ageing forwards who can only play twenty minutes each eight games into the season ffs.
AS gave those two a contract so if McDonald and Alexander are not scoring goals and he can only turn to these two then he is fecked. Whose fault is that?

Finally and this is where the AS lovers have got to get real................

Where did we get £3.5M pounds to spend on our playing budget?

We Borrowed it from Matthew Benham! Bees United will say it is not a loan but if we do not meet expectations this season who will underwriting the losses? We need to be challenging for the playoffs to get 6500 crowds for our home games and after 8 games we are almost certainly not able to reach the playoffs without an unbeaten run of unparralled proportions.

AS Managerial record gives him a 40% win record so out of 38 remaining games we can realistically expect to win 14 games leaving 24 games that if we equally split as draws and defeats would give us 60 points at the end of the season.

If you are happy with that total then fine but I would not be!!!!

Regarding the 3.5million l think the 1 mill per season (for 5 years ) is included in this,banana did say Matthew Benhams money was for "equity"in the club and not debt.Tried to send off an email to BIAS for clarification on this but wasnt able to get connected.

 

[beebopalula]

we will get a point on tuesday, I've read it in the stars.

 

[RoyalOakBee]

Regarding the 3.5million l think the 1 mill per season (for 5 years ) is included in this,banana did say Matthew Benhams money was for "equity"in the club and not debt.Tried to send off an email to BIAS for clarification on this but wasnt able to get connected.

Bill it matters not to the point I am making.

If we get crowds of 4700 all season rather than the budgeted figure (6500??) then we will be making a massive loss. The squad are all tied to 2 and 3 year contracts as you know so we cant trim it unless we are selling players and who is going to buy any of our players at the moment?

Karleigh and Myles are about our only saleable assets based on this seasons form!!!

 

[Banana]

Regarding the 3.5million l think the 1 mill per season (for 5 years ) is included in this,banana did say Matthew Benhams money was for "equity"in the club and not debt.Tried to send off an email to BIAS for clarification on this but wasnt able to get connected.

All the monies that MB puts into the club in the 5 year partnership with BU goes in as equity.

 

[shouldbee]

Still no idea who the AS out brigade have in mind to replace him if he were to go. Perhaps, after all, there is no one better available. After all, no (new) appointment is going to bee guaranteed to bee a success is it?

I seem to remember this old argument being trawled out when the fans were after Butcher's head.......who should replace him ?.......well it's not for the supporters to decide, it's a decision that belongs to the people who own this club.

The fact is Scott doesn't know how to coach a team to play attractive and more importantly winning football, his tactics are basic kick and rush and hope the opposition defence make a mistake, well I'm afraid it won't do.

Added to that it's driving away fans and 4700 for a club who have invested heavily is not acceptable. I'm sure Mr Benham is wondering WTF is going on and will only allow it to continue for so long.

I would give him 4 more games to turn it around or decide in the best interest of his long term commitment and serious financial investment in the club it's time to take a different route and find a manager who can bring out the best in this squad.

 

[rhprice]

Alan Pardew (excuse spelling) is out of contract and is a more experienced manager than the current cyclops...maybe hard to swallow for those lost in an andy wonder land but. hand on heart can you ever see a more successful club poaching the talents of A S.? Be honest

 

[HertfordBee]

Alan Pardew (excuse spelling) is out of contract and is a more experienced manager than the current cyclops...maybe hard to swallow for those lost in an andy wonder land but. hand on heart can you ever see a more successful club poaching the talents of A S.? Be honest

I think you mean "out of a job" ... and long may he remain so!!

 

[bees52 bomber]

Alan Pardew (excuse spelling) is out of contract and is a more experienced manager than the current cyclops...maybe hard to swallow for those lost in an andy wonder land but. hand on heart can you ever see a more successful club poaching the talents of A S.? Be honest

No thanks

 

[sonofabee]

Brooks can I talk you through my observations on some of your thoughts.

I could see after two home games how this was going to pan out and someone who studies the game like MB does will also have been making notes.

The Christmas consideration is for a team that wants to avoid relegation. We wont get relegated this season even if AS stays. That is not the point.
This squad has been assembled at a cost £3.5M ffs how many times does this have to be repeated? Its a squad for pushing for the play offs not for fighting relegation. So timing for changing the Manager is dependant on whether the team looks capable of achieving its objective. The earlier you spot that it is not the better. Norwich proved that last season afetr one game and we all thought Delia had been at the Vino again.

Scott should be given time to work on the problems you say.
Well as far as I can see it AS is the problem!

Poor Man management skills. Poor Recruitment record. Poor Tactical knowledge. No Plan B. Stubborness. Arrogance.

He has a lot to sort out by Tues!

Only the lack of a plan b has been verified, presumably his tactics were perfect vs Everton?
Arrogance and stubborness is presumably your opinion, would this be someone else at the club that doesn't see a need to consult you and so you slag off.....
AS has a problem, he isn't delivering the results he's paid to and I've no doubt those that employ him have noticed, they don't need you to tell them.

You really are a piece of work, I won't be posting again this witch hunt against AS is ridiculous and some on here should be ashamed. Logical questioning of tactics and performance ok and if we continue to struggle of course his position rightly comes under review but from the terraces questioning his people skills is ludicrous!

I expect my views to differ from others, we all see games differently and are entitled to opinions, when we respond to e- mails and it occasionally gets heated it's because we all want the same thing success for the club, in your case you just appear to stir trouble and imply you're in the know when you clearly aren't!

 

[larrysigny]

I.......who should replace him ?.......well it's not for the supporters to decide, it's a decision that belongs to the people who own this club...

I may be wrong (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am) - but isn't the hiring and firing of staff at the club run by a Magic Circle of three - abee, the CEO whose name I've forgotten - and Andy Scott.

So - should Andy have one third of the say in firing himself and finding a replacement?








What's more - think of the trauma of moving he dugouts back to Braemar Road if he do get rid of him.

 

[bees66]

Alan Pardew (excuse spelling) is out of contract and is a more experienced manager than the current cyclops

he wouldn't give us a second thought, he'll only take a job on with a team that gets good support

 

[hobbsy]

I may be wrong (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am) - but isn't the hiring and firing of staff at the club run by a Magic Circle of three - abee, the CEO whose name I've forgotten - and Andy Scott.

So - should Andy have one third of the say in firing himself and finding a replacement?

Andrew Mills. The executive team is appointed by the clubs board. If the board want to change the make up of that team then they are free to do so.

 

[shouldbee]

I may be wrong (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am) - but isn't the hiring and firing of staff at the club run by a Magic Circle of three - abee, the CEO whose name I've forgotten - and Andy Scott.

So - should Andy have one third of the say in firing himself and finding a replacement?

Don't have a clue Larry, better address this question to one of the people in the "know". However I would have thought that MB would have a say as it's money that's keeping us afloat not abee's or Scott himself ?

 

[sonofabee]

I may be wrong (I'm sure someone will correct me if I am) - but isn't the hiring and firing of staff at the club run by a Magic Circle of three - abee, the CEO whose name I've forgotten - and Andy Scott.

So - should Andy have one third of the say in firing himself and finding a replacement?








What's more - think of the trauma of moving he dugouts back to Braemar Road if he do get rid of him.

You know what, if all 3 resigned we'd be absolutely f****d Si be careful what you wish for!

 

[shouldbee]

he wouldn't give us a second thought, he'll only take a job on with a team that gets good support

Reading
West Ham
Charlton


couldn't see him wanting to manage us ?

 

[rhprice]

Well you mark my words he's in the managerial line up if or when you know how drops us in it any deeper. I'm off countryfile's on and iv'e a joint of lamb for my tea

 

[larrysigny]

You know what, if all 3 resigned we'd be absolutely f****d Si be careful what you wish for!

Not wishing for anything. But I thought the very last line might give an indication of the spirit in which I wrote...........

 

[Bill Benn]

All the monies that MB puts into the club in the 5 year partnership with BU goes in as equity.

Thanks for that,equity means shares l presume at this rate the value of the club would in the region of 20mill.in 5 years or am l missing something?

 

[Bill Benn]

I think you mean "out of a job" ... and long may he remain so!!

 

[hatfieldbee]

You know what, if all 3 resigned we'd be absolutely f****d Si be careful what you wish for!

I thought you said you weren't posting any more on this thread....

 

[bees66]

Reading
West Ham
Charlton


couldn't see him wanting to manage us ?

he'll go to Derby or Leicester next

 

[RitchBee]

All I would like is a bit more football from AS rather than what being served up at the moment.

I would like us to do a bit more tactically aware as well from corners etc. Even from these we are so one dimentional with balls just onto the edge of the six yard area even players at this level should be capable of mixing it up.

It looks like at times they have one instruction and stick to what they are told. We don't see midfielders making runs beyond the last defender do we?

Rochdale can knock the ball around so why can't we?

That has to comes down to coaching and what players do Monday to Friday so you have to ask yourself what are ours doing in this time.

 

[sonofabee]

I thought you said you weren't posting any more on this thread....

I couldn't resist when one of the other knobs came on so quickly after ROB.
2500 posts plus but this last waive of vitriol is too much for me so I'm done, over and out, it's been emotional

 

[Banana]

Thanks for that,equity means shares l presume at this rate the value of the club would in the region of 20mill.in 5 years or am l missing something?

It's all available on number 8 onwards from the summary of the deal

 

[Bill Benn]

Bill it matters not to the point I am making.

If we get crowds of 4700 all season rather than the budgeted figure (6500??) then we will be making a massive loss. The squad are all tied to 2 and 3 year contracts as you know so we cant trim it unless we are selling players and who is going to buy any of our players at the moment?

Karleigh and Myles are about our only saleable assets based on this seasons form!!!

If you are concerned about making massive losses well we already are but, hey ho,we are told this will be covered over the next 4 years by Matthew Benham so fill yer boots.I am 100% sure the original deal (5 Mill over 5 years) will not be an issue with MB.But l cant see him putting an extra 2.5 mill in the coming seasons unless things improve on and off the field and dont be fooled by the "official"gates,its all down to gate reciepts something that never gets
reported by any football clubs these days.

 

[hatfieldbee]

I couldn't resist when one of the other knobs came on so quickly after ROB.
2500 posts plus but this last waive of vitriol is too much for me so I'm done, over and out, it's been emotional

Too much vitriol - agreed. Extreme comments either side of the argument by some posters on here. The poll definitely says 'give him time' - the more balanced view (which is also mine).
I do however accept that we all want the Bees to be succesfull - some of us have been waiting more years than others, but still actively support the club - opinions will vary and thats what makes footie a good discussion topic.

 

[Bill Benn]

It's all available on number 8 onwards from the summary of the deal

Thanks again wish l had that info earlier.

 

[nick logan]

It worked brilliantly for Norwich City.
It's not the sacking, it's the replacing, that's the key.
My gut feeling is that Andy has a pretty good eye for a player, but is tactically not smart enough. He's put together a decent squad of players, but is not the man to get the most out of them.

They had an excellent replacement in place and had just lost 7-1 at home after being relegated.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

They had an excellent replacement in place and had just lost 7-1 at home after being relegated.

They had actually beaten Yeovil 4-0 away but let's not quote facts eh..

 

[nick logan]

They had actually beaten Yeovil 4-0 away but let's not quote facts eh..

In the cup which according to you doesn't count.

 

[HoveBee]

Give it a rest Scott is a credit to the club and always comes to work smartly dressed.

 

[shouldbee]

Not as smart as Andrew Mills lol

 

[NorthamptonBee]

In the cup which according to you doesn't count.

FFS, you've got a bit of Scott about you.

If we had beaten anyone 4-0 recently or remotely looked like scoring 4 then I wouldn't want a change.

 

[nick logan]

FFS, you've got a bit of Scott about you.

If we had beaten anyone 4-0 recently or remotely looked like scoring 4 then I wouldn't want a change.

Come on mate, you know as well as i do they lined Lambert up before he left Carrow Rd on the saturday.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Alan Pardew (excuse spelling) is out of contract and is a more experienced manager than the current cyclops...maybe hard to swallow for those lost in an andy wonder land but.

I think you mean "out of a job" ... and long may he remain so!!

No thanks

I'd be asking for a refund on my season ticket if we appointed that ***** as our manager.