Attendances

[Downbeat Bee]

Attendance was about what you'd expect on Saturday, but looking down the attendances I was struck by the way that clubs who we used to get more than are now getting more than us e.g. Gillingham, Blackpool, Hartlepool etc. No great point to be made other than that. But just shows how we are up against it being located where we are.

 

[Gee Bee]

Attendance was about what you'd expect on Saturday, but looking down the attendances I was struck by the way that clubs who we used to get more than are now getting more than us e.g. Gillingham, Blackpool, Hartlepool etc. No great point to be made other than that. But just shows how we are up against it being located where we are.

3rd lowest attendance in the division, just in front of Rotherham & Franchise FC.

 

[Boston Bee]

I'm optimistic though. The 'superstore' has a great atmosphere to it, very family friendly. The feel around the ground was wonderful. And we finally beat up on someone early on. Hopefully a momentum will build and not require a £400/day expert in the last month to increase attendance. I think the message that it's not the same old Brentford is finally getting around.

Mind you Brooks Road Lower at halftime remains a tragedy waiting to happen, but what the hey, right?

 

[Brain-dead Bee]

What happens in Brook Road Lower at half-time that's so dangerous? Is it the rush for food and toilets causing a crush?

Going back to attendances, we probably had more Scunthorpe fans than we'd have expected so the crowd was pretty unimpressive for a team that was just in the play-offs. Let's hope it's higher when people are back from hols

 

[rg12bee]

Attendance was about what you'd expect on Saturday, but looking down the attendances I was struck by the way that clubs who we used to get more than are now getting more than us e.g. Gillingham, Blackpool, Hartlepool etc. No great point to be made other than that. But just shows how we are up against it being located where we are.

Noticed that as well! Sure the board have as well.
Having said that, just under 6k against Scunny first home game is not bad for us, so maybe we should skip over the attendance stats and just hope that we keep performing and get more bums on seats at GP.

 

[Boston Bee]

Nothing different from usual. At half there are people trying to be in a "line" for food (including lots of kids), people trying to get to the bathrooms, people in "line" for beer (an ill-defined thing). All stressed by a 15-minute window 'til 2nd half. So tempers fray, people push. It's just a rediculous scene, and I think every week: If it ever kicked off in that maul there could be real danger to a lot of people. And no it wasn't even a crowded away end. You sell out and that area is a disaster just waiting to happen.

But I've mentioned this at least twice a season for the last 3-4 on here and everyone else seems to think it's just the way it is and what can you do.

So I've warned you. :shrug:

What happens in Brook Road Lower at half-time that's so dangerous? Is it the rush for food and toilets causing a crush?

Going back to attendances, we probably had more Scunthorpe fans than we'd have expected so the crowd was pretty unimpressive for a team that was just in the play-offs. Let's hope it's higher when people are back from hols

 

[Paul O'Brien]

Checking back, the attendance v the Irons was about 1200 more than the last couple of times they visited us (4657 Nov 1999 and 4700 Oct 1998; it's also (apart from a Cardiff game) the biggest gate for the first home game of the season for us for at least 12 years.

 

[gashbee]

With the likes of Gillingham, Bristol City, Swindon & Bournemouth here in the next few months, attendances should rise, hopefully coupled with a successful period of results.

 

[Garybaldbee]

Checking back, the attendance v the Irons was about 1200 more than the last couple of times they visited us (4657 Nov 1999 and 4700 Oct 1998; it's also (apart from a Cardiff game) the biggest gate for the first home game of the season for us for at least 12 years.

I think that both of those previous Scunthorpe games were midweek - and one was in the 4th Division/Third Division/League Two/You know what I mean. Whatever, it can't really be compared with a season opener.

 

[Boston Bee]

Like for like: Last season's first Saturday home was Wrexham and my memory is we barely drew 5000, certainly a lot less than Saturday. From memory we played Doncaster around then and drew around 6k on a Tuesday night (for a superb match too), so who knows.

I think that both of those previous Scunthorpe games were midweek - and one was in the 4th Division/Third Division/League Two/You know what I mean. Whatever, it can't really be compared with a season opener.

 

[Garybaldbee]

The difference with all three of those games (Scunthorpe, Wrexham and Doncaster) was basically the away support - ie Wreham brought very few, Scunny a respectable amount and Rovers even more. Sadly thats the main reason for the variation in our crowds. We have our 5,000 and no more, almost regardless, it seems, of what we do on the pitch.

 

[BeeAlzibub]

Even when we spent a year in the Championship attendances only rose to around 8,500 I think. That was boosted by bigger away followings from West Ham etc etc

This season in a league with no local derby to speak of & mostly Northern clogger opposition I think even with a good run at the league from the off we would be more than happy to average 7/7,500 come May.

We may pull a few stay aways back etc, but you need to build attendances over a number of seasons like Charlton have done in recent years.

The good news is that I see more & more kids nowadays walking round Staines high street wearing their Bees tops with pride.
The more kids that come along & get hooked with being associated with a winning team the more likely other kids at their schools will follow.

 

[Boston Bee]

One of the things that I thought of while admiring the queues to the till in the new supershop: Lots of parents buying their kids suveniers is a very good thing.

The more kids that come along & get hooked with being associated with a winning team the more likely other kids at their schools will follow.

 

[paulmaddy]

Even when we spent a year in the Championship attendances only rose to around 8,500 I think. That was boosted by bigger away followings from West Ham etc etc

This season in a league with no local derby to speak of & mostly Northern clogger opposition I think even with a good run at the league from the off we would be more than happy to average 7/7,500 come May.

We may pull a few stay aways back etc, but you need to build attendances over a number of seasons like Charlton have done in recent years.

The good news is that I see more & more kids nowadays walking round Staines high street wearing their Bees tops with pride.
The more kids that come along & get hooked with being associated with a winning team the more likely other kids at their schools will follow.

Its often quoted that we 'only' got 8500 in the league above, but that was before football became as fashionable to watch as it is now and that wasn't a bad average back then.

In comparison 8500 was the 12th highest average in the division that year even though we were relegated and it was bigger than the following clubs: Barnsley, Charlton, Luton, Tranmere and Watford and several more. (see http://www.soccer-stats.com/divisions/attendances.asp?divno=2)

Our constant lack of success since then means that we lost our potential that we definitely had. Its a shame, but only sustained success will boost our averages long term.

 

[Claire]

at lot of people who would usually go, were also on holiday. its just that time of year!

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I blame Chelsea and Sky.

 

[BeeAlzibub]

In comparison 8500 was the 12th highest average in the division that year even though we were relegated and it was bigger than the following clubs: Barnsley, Charlton, Luton, Tranmere and Watford and several more. (see http://www.soccer-stats.com/divisions/attendances.asp?divno=2)

Our constant lack of success since then means that we lost our potential that we definitely had. Its a shame, but only sustained success will boost our averages long term.

I probably agree with you on the first point & more importantly you back up my other thought.

After year upon year of treading water in League 1 or whatever they call it ( 25 of the last 27 & I've seem all of them ! ) each generation of kids growing up has seen either in the QPha (80's) ,Chelski or even nowadays Ful*am as the "big" club to latch on to like all their mates.

Brentford are always the small friendly club down the road.

 

[eghambee]

I also was shocked by some of the crowds at other grounds.

However, breaking the matches down.

N Forest - Nuff said
B City - Nuff said
Barnsley - Getting big gates since Prem days
Gillingham - Have done well in Championship plus what looks like a decent place to sit and watch games now.
Hartlepool - Play off finalists, and from TV, away end packed.
Oldham - Still have Premiership fans, with a better squad this season.
Southend - Promoted for the first time in ages
Swansea - Brand new stadium

That leaves MK - Dont care
Rotherham - Sh@t ground playing Walsall.

Brentford - Higher than i expected to be honest, based on the fact that in another thread it was clear that the club weren't promoting the first game

We have been in the bottom two divisions all bar one season since i started coming and beyond.
We have a superb manager, but the only people who know that for certain are us, that come.
Others still need to be convinced.

Until we get the ground developments in place AND the club actually tells people we are here, we will under achieve on attendances.

Ive lost count of the times when ive told people its £3 for kids, they've said, thats bl@@dy good, why hasnt the club done it?

https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34831

 

[Garybaldbee]

However, breaking the matches down.

N Forest - Nuff said
B City - Nuff said
Barnsley - Getting big gates since Prem days
Gillingham - Have done well in Championship plus what looks like a decent place to sit and watch games now.
Hartlepool - Play off finalists, and from TV, away end packed.
Oldham - Still have Premiership fans, with a better squad this season.
Southend - Promoted for the first time in ages
Swansea - Brand new stadium



https://griffinpark.org/forums/showthread.php?t=34831

But you could have added; Brentford - Play Off semi finalists, FA Cup heroes, high profile manager, return of cult hero........... and it still didn't work. The supporters don't turn up because - and I've said this countless times - they simply aren't there any longer. The generation which grew up with an interest in the club because of the success in the 1930's has, to put it bluntly and literally, died off, and 50 years of third tier mediocrity since means there is nothing to replace it. Cheap entry for children and the like is all very commendable and neccessary, but its no substitute for having a large, latent support base already in place - and that takes time to grow.

 

[eghambee]

I agree with you .

My point is that all bar Hartlepool had better reasons, ie promotion or Premiership/Championship fans or better grounds.

Brentford had none of the above, and as you say, lack supporters that remember better days.

But the club seems to have done very little to advertise the first game and the cheap kids admission prices.

 

[Streetboy]

But you could have added; Brentford - Play Off semi finalists, FA Cup heroes, high profile manager, return of cult hero........... and it still didn't work. The supporters don't turn up because - and I've said this countless times - they simply aren't there any longer. The generation which grew up with an interest in the club because of the success in the 1930's has, to put it bluntly and literally, died off, and 50 years of third tier mediocrity since means there is nothing to replace it. Cheap entry for children and the like is all very commendable and neccessary, but its no substitute for having a large, latent support base already in place - and that takes time to grow.

5,000-odd is about right for a side who have only spent two season outside the third tier in the past 25-odd years. I stopped worrying about our attendances ages ago. We've tried everything, hell, even letting the whole crowd in for free. The only way crowds will rise consitently is by a consistent run of football at a higher level, not just one season. And even then, I cannot imagine some one who has, like Crewe, having much bigger crowds than us. Stockport spent about three years in the division above, look at them now. A longish spell in the division above would probably need to be coupled with a nosedive for one of the other west London teams.

 

[Boston Bee]

So we've just won a sensational match, the highlights were on tv the following morning, we're all back from holidays, the sun will very likely be shining and we're top of the league. Everyone seems to think the fans will come if we are winning.

I know it's the fan-unfriendly Dons, but we could draw a real crowd for Saturday with some aggressive PR/promotion. Are we doing any?

 

[Brickie Chap]

They wont bring more than 500. Whilst our home crowds have been growing, I still cant see us having more than 6000 home fans. Would expect next weeks crowd to be slightly over 6000

 

[eghambee]

I know it's the fan-unfriendly Dons, but we could draw a real crowd for Saturday with some aggressive PR/promotion. Are we doing any?

Question was sent to Q&A a few weeks ago and not answered.

Maybe they have been waiting for the Commercial Manager to start

 

[Edmundo]

They wont bring more than 500.

If you mean Franchise FC, I think you have inserted one too many 0s in your estimate!

 

[CJC]

Aggressive promotion/PR' has been done before with a winning team and hasn't worked. It doesn't seem to be working for Fulham either who must spend a bomb on those 'FFC sh*t' adverts and still can't fill the Cottage even against a big name like Everton who did well last season, let alone beat us on away attendances on occasion.

For this season, if we can try and get 6000 in the home end every match it will be an excellent start. Looking at the major matches over the last few years we've probably got 10,000 people who will turn up any given Saturday for a match. Improving the ground we could possibly tempt a few more of these people to be regulars, but having a consistently winning team over several seasons is the only way to get new fans in large numbers. Which doesn't happen at Brentford.

 

[Garybaldbee]

For this season, if we can try and get 6000 in the home end every match it will be an excellent start. Looking at the major matches over the last few years we've probably got 10,000 people who will turn up any given Saturday for a match. Improving the ground we could possibly tempt a few more of these people to be regulars, but having a consistently winning team over several seasons is the only way to get new fans in large numbers. Which doesn't happen at Brentford.

Building (or rebuilding in our case) a fan base is very much an organic process and its going to take a long long time for us to develop anything significantly better than we have now.

 

[beesknees]

Only success will bring the attendances up and keep them there. QPR used to have worse gates than us, in the old 3rd division, until they got promoted and they've managed to hang onto a lot of the 'new' support.

 

[northantsbee]

Promotion, PR, Agressive advertising........cmon peeps this is Brentford

 

[davido_i]

Does anyone know our average attendance from the Coppell near miss year. If we are quietly confident of again challenging for the Top 2 promotion spots, this would seem a reasonable basis to guesstimate the average gate at GP this season.

 

[Garybaldbee]

Does anyone know our average attendance from the Coppell near miss year. If we are quietly confident of again challenging for the Top 2 promotion spots, this would seem a reasonable basis to guesstimate the average gate at GP this season.

6,700 - but that was boosted by 11,000 for both the freebie game v Peterborough and the QPR derby, neither of which, clearly, will be repeated this season. Also I think the division was generally more southern oriented that season (Brighton/Reading/Luton etc) so there were probably larger away crowds throughout. Given the lack of attractive opposition this year anything much over 6,000 would be ok.

 

[eghambee]

6,700 - but that was boosted by 11,000 for both the freebie game v Peterborough and the QPR derby, neither of which, clearly, will be repeated this season. Also I think the division was generally more southern oriented that season (Brighton/Reading/Luton etc) so there were probably larger away crowds throughout. Given the lack of attractive opposition this year anything much over 6,000 would be ok.

According to another thread the budgeted average attendance required is 6300.

 

[TOMOGP]

Getting some actual stats our crowds are rising albeit slow but sure

Season

01/02 Port Vale Sat 4561
Cambridge Bank Hol Mon 4674
Tranmere Sat 5211 Finished 3rd this season
Total 14446

Average 4815


02/03 Bristol City Tuesday 7130
Oldham Sat 5356 Finished season 16th
Swindon Bank Hol Mon 6299
Total 18785 Note 2 good visitors

Average 6262


03/04 Peterborough Sat 4463
Oldham Bank Hol Mon 4073
Plymouth Sat 5688 Finished 17th
Total 14224

Average 4741

04/05 Doncastor Tue 5621
Wrexham Sat 5091 Finished 4th
Stockport Bank Hol Sat 4643
Total 15355

Average 5118

05/06 Scunthorpe Sat 5952
Tranmere Sat 5438
Gillingham Bank Hol Mon 6969
Total 18359

Average 6120

So apart from 02/03 when we had 2 teams with a good following we are over 1000 up on the average :bound: :bound: :bound:

 

[TOMOGP]

6,700 - but that was boosted by 11,000 for both the freebie game v Peterborough and the QPR derby, neither of which, clearly, will be repeated this season. Also I think the division was generally more southern oriented that season (Brighton/Reading/Luton etc) so there were probably larger away crowds throughout. Given the lack of attractive opposition this year anything much over 6,000 would be ok.

6714 excluding the play offs but as you say these are distorted through the freebee, and you forgot Wycombe, Stoke and Cardiff were all in the division and of course the last game at home to Reading was 11303

 

[malvernbee]

6,000 is realistic!

In the 80's when we were for ever midtable I still remember crowds of 3,000-ish.
You have to think a fella now taking his kids to GP it's a months subscription to Sky.

The only way we will ever see 20,000 + crowds at the Bee's is a new ground, or Rangers and Fulham bankrupt and a combined west London side taking on Chelsea.

A BRF will hopefully never happen.

 

[Boston Bee]

Possible, but difficult. No matches with filled away end to look for, pretty much all year. The home attendences will have to be large to compensate for the inevitable 3500-on-a-wet-Tues-night-in-Feb type matches.

As there is no plan that I've seen that includes expanding GP past about 17k, I'd say you're prediction that we'll not draw 20k without a new stadium is a good bet. lol

6,000 is realistic!

In the 80's when we were for ever midtable I still remember crowds of 3,000-ish.
You have to think a fella now taking his kids to GP it's a months subscription to Sky.

The only way we will ever see 20,000 + crowds at the Bee's is a new ground, or Rangers and Fulham bankrupt and a combined west London side taking on Chelsea.

A BRF will hopefully never happen.

 

[abee]

6,000 is realistic!

Getting the average gate wrong in the budget forecasts creates a huge problem for the following close season.

For example you would go with 6,000 but we understand that the Club is using 6,300.

If the club falls short by the 300 that you presumably would predict then in cash terms that is 300 x £10 x 23 = £69,000 which is not small monies in our predicament.

We also sold 2600 season tickets this year (a recent record I believe) and those monies have all been spent during the close season so in cash terms an average gate which is the same as last season brings in less during the season than we had last year.

The problem for the BFC board is that if you get your forecasts wrong there is no way back. Your income is lower than forecast but you cannot just cut back on expenses and lay-off staff or reduce cost of sales to help balance the books. Normally flexibility and some slack in the bank overdraft arrangements would absorb the pain until things could be sorted out in the following seasons budget but the BFC board does not have this luxury as I understand it. They have to keep their fingers crossed for either or both of player sale(s) or a cup run. The past two seasons we have ridden our luck as the sale of Paul Smith and the wonderful cup run last season saved our bacon.

Fingers crossed that it's not third time unlucky.

 

[Stanley]

A longish spell in the division above would probably need to be coupled with a nosedive for one of the other west London teams.

You mean if we get promoted , Fayad finally sells the Cottage off for flats and the Ra ra's just continue with this season's implosion...? Who says it couldn't happen.

The one thing we have going for us that the likes of Crewe and Rotherham will never have is that we are part of the largest metropolis in the world, as others have said "sustained" success will bring back the floating/new support.

 

[Gee Bee]

05/06 Scunthorpe Sat 5952
Tranmere Sat 5438
Gillingham Bank Hol Mon 6969
Total 18359

Average 6120

So apart from 02/03 when we had 2 teams with a good following we are over 1000 up on the average :bound: :bound: :bound:

If you follow your principle though, wouldn't Gillingham be one of the bigger gates for the season, therefore discolouring the current average somewhat.
I actually think you have to take the away support away from every game to get a feel for your increase in avaerage home support. Gillingham had about 1500 therefore 5400 home support, Scunthorpe had about 1000 therefore about 5000 home support, probably the same for Tranmere who had about 400 there. So only a few more games will tell whether our home support increases to probably average about 5700 to get to the proposed 6300 in the budget.

 

[Garybaldbee]

I actually think you have to take the away support away from every game to get a feel for your increase in avaerage home support. Gillingham had about 1500 therefore 5400 home support, Scunthorpe had about 1000 therefore about 5000 home support, probably the same for Tranmere who had about 400 there. So only a few more games will tell whether our home support increases to probably average about 5700 to get to the proposed 6300 in the budget.

:yes: And the visit of the puss filled boil on the backside of the beautiful game on Saturday should give us the perfect opportunity to assess trends with the home support because we will probably be able to count those on the Ealing Road end ( I refuse to dignify them with the title 'supporter') without difficulty.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

Years ago in the 70s, when I used to go to Palace when the Bees were away (honest) I used to marvel at the attendances they were getting. In the old second division, they were regularly getting 17-20,000; when they were in the old first, they were seventh best supported team in the division at 28-30,000.

In fact one season (1978-9) I was part of their record crowd of over 51,000 against Burnley.

Then I spotted their attendances over the last few years (bear in mind that their capacity has been halved since the 70s)

2004-05 Barclays Premiership 24,108
2003-04 Nationwide League Division One 17,344
2002-03 Nationwide League Division One 16,823
2001-02 Nationwide League Division One 17,177
2000-01 Nationwide League Division One 17,061
1999-00 Nationwide League Division One 15,662
1998-99 Nationwide League Division One 17,123
1997-98 FA Carling Premiership 21,983
1996-97 Nationwide League Division One 16,085
1995-96 Endsleigh League Division One 15,248
1994-95 FA Carling Premiership 14,990
1993-94 Endsleigh League Division One 15,656
1992-93 FA Carling Premiership 15,748
1991-92 Barclays First Division 17,619
1990-91 Barclays First Division 19,660
1989-90 Barclays First Division 17,105
1988-89 Barclays Second Division 10,655
1987-88 Barclays Second Division 9,745
1986-87 Today Second Division 7,583
1985-86 Today Second Division 6,787
1984-85 Today Second Division 6,440
1983-84 Today Second Division 8,119


To me that was an astonishing slump before they came back up in gates (which was to a great extent because of publicity and attractive football). And if Palace can do it, so can we.

 

[Edmundo]

I think everyone was getting sh*t gates in the mid-1980s. Football was in crisis and rampant hooliganism was keeping people away. Italia 90, Gazza's tears and the death of Route One, combined with hooliganism going out of fashion and the police getting a proper grip on it, as opposed to treating all fans as animals, a policy forced on them by the Hillsborough disaster, led to the renaissance of football and the return of fans. I think there were seasons in the 1980s when Brentford averaged under 4,000 and had gates for some League games under 2,000.

 

[amgbee]

Gotta agree with BeeAlzibub on points made. Attendances have to develop then establish themselves. For example, Fulham - took them a long time to convince their public, even when they were top of ch'ship/div1 a few years back but with a sustained time in the prem they have seen averages rise to circa 17-20,000 and although their tradition and fasionabitlity may be a stronger than Brentford, their catchment area is roughly the same size. Charlton also - save for their nomadic period struggled to pull in anymore than about 10,000 a few years back. While it doesn't help to be in such close proximity to 3 higher league clubs and several others, support can develop and thrive given the right conditions

 

[Edmundo]

It's all glory hunters at Craven Cottage, though, isn't it? They still take the same number to away games that they did when they were in Division 3.

 

[abee]

To me that was an astonishing slump before they came back up in gates (which was to a great extent because of publicity and attractive football). And if Palace can do it, so can we.

Agreed but remember they had the "oomph" factor in Ron Noades a philanthropic and dynamic businessman who has left every football club with which he has been associated in better shape than when he found it (copyright Novella Noades 2002) and who also single handedly........(sorry I need to think.........I'll finish this post later....... )

 

[Edmundo]

Ron Noades a philanthropic and dynamic businessman who has left every football club with which he has been associated in better shape than when he found it (copyright Novella Noades 2002)

She only said it because it's one of his favourite sayings. One of the curiosities of Noades's stewardships of various London football clubs is that the only one whose ground he didn't mess with the ownership of (Wimbledon) ended up being relocated to Milton Keynes!

 

[rebus]

They still take the same number to away games that they did when they were in Division 3.

No they don't - they take far more - although perhaps poor by Premiership standards. Have done a few Fulham away games as part of my sports photography apprenticeship. They don't sing as loud as us though!

 

[amgbee]

Fair point Ed but regardless they have developed a larger support base than previous. Charlton (and day I say it, Millwall) have also worked very hard with their community schemes to build from the ground up. Brentford imho have as passionate and informative crowd as any I've seen in the country and probably more so because of all the other rival clubs in the capital. Floating support at Chelski, Arsenal, Spurs and to an extent West Ham and Fulham is virtually eliminated due to sell outs season ticket and prices leaving Bees to fight it out with QPR, Palace etc for the floaters.

 

[rebus]

She only said it because it's one of his favourite sayings. One of the curiosities of Noades's stewardships of various London football clubs is that the only one whose ground he didn't mess with the ownership of (Wimbledon) ended up being relocated to Milton Keynes!

The irony is that he bought a large shareholding in Milton Keynes FC in the 1970s before they went bust!

 

[Edmundo]

No they don't - they take far more - although perhaps poor by Premiership standards. Have done a few Fulham away games as part of my sports photography apprenticeship. They don't sing as loud as us though!

I heard they took 200 to Blackburn.