Best centre back pairing ?

[Bigbee]

It appears that Uwe wants to play out from the back .Eger can do this .Llera offers more aerial threat .But both seem susceptible to the rough and tumble of League One strikers . Osborne and Legge offer a more British beefy type of defending but Legge likes to Row Z it rather than go all Continental . Maybe what Uwe is trying to achieve isnt possible with the current crop and he should just let the defenders stick to one job ,stopping attacks and therefore stick with Legge and Osborne when fit ?

 

[rebus]

Maybe what Uwe is trying to achieve isnt possible with the current crop

Players to fit systems, not systems to fit players.

 

[BFC1997]

Depending on the opposition, best pairing IMO is Eger+Llera OR Legge+Osborne.

 

[mundee4england]

Any perm of KO, LL and Llera. The first two being my first choice. I think Eger is poor and lacks the attributes for this league!

 

[JohnOmarasShorts]

It appears that Uwe wants to play out from the back .Eger can do this .Llera offers more aerial threat .

Couldn't disagree more, Llera appears to be a threat due to his sheer physicality but more often than not he is the nearly man. Yesterday he nearly got to lots of balls, but just failed and appears to be near getting booked every time he's in a physical tussle. I think both Osborne and Legge give a greater ariel threat and Osborne is beginning to develop into the ball player that the pairing could do with.

 

[magicbees]

KO and LL when all fit.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

Players to fit systems, not systems to fit players.

I have been thinking that this is what the plan is for some time and I am a little troubled by it. Its fine if we are only short of one or two players to fit the system that the manager wants to play but if this isn't the case and I suspect that it isn't, and we are not in a position to get rid of the players that dont fit and buy some that do, then we will be relying on 4 or 5 loanees to fill the gaps.
Others may disagree but I dont happen to think that this is the best way to build a team.
If you are given a kit to build a Ford there's not much point trying to construct a Ferrari from it.

 

[beebopalula]

We know that Uwe wants to build play from the back. We have two ball players and two stoppers. We also know that KO and ME can't play together if it gets physical. Llera is strong and can play it out. Eger isn't strong but can play it out. So Llera gets the nod over Eger. Legge and Osborn are quick but Legge is stronger so Llera plus Legge is my pairing. I expect Llera to have his loan extended.

 

[upnorthbee]

Couldn't disagree more, Llera appears to be a threat due to his sheer physicality but more often than not he is the nearly man. Yesterday he nearly got to lots of balls, but just failed and appears to be near getting booked every time he's in a physical tussle. I think both Osborne and Legge give a greater ariel threat and Osborne is beginning to develop into the ball player that the pairing could do with.

Exactly my thoughts yesterday. For such a tall big man he really is poor in the air, mis-timing his jumps often and i think he should have put atleast one of his ariel chances away yesterday, but he missed the ball everytime almost.

 

[jlove]

... Legge is stronger so Llera plus Legge is my pairing...

I'm inclined to agree but what makes you think Leon is quick? If Osborne has been carrying an injury recently, it may go some way to explaining his lack of form but I can't help feeling he is lacking some confidence. The real Karleigh would certainly be our best CB but...

 

[BRbee]

KO and LL when all fit.

 

[wibs]

Pim and Alan Bennett

 

[GP200]

Exactly my thoughts yesterday. For such a tall big man he really is poor in the air, mis-timing his jumps often and i think he should have put atleast one of his ariel chances away yesterday, but he missed the ball everytime almost.

........yep........a couple of corners right in front of us were his for the taking...........we commented on this at the time........

 

[hanworthbee]

Karleigh and Leon...

 

[beebopalula]

I'm inclined to agree but what makes you think Leon is quick? If Osborne has been carrying an injury recently, it may go some way to explaining his lack of form but I can't help feeling he is lacking some confidence. The real Karleigh would certainly be our best CB but...

I think Leon is deceptively quick as he has shown on a number of occasions with last ditch tackles after turning to chase down a striker. What worries me about Osborne is that he gets bullied too easily and tends to get the wrong side of the striker. For some reason he has gone backwards form wise and I don't know why. I expect him to play alongside Llera vs Scunny though.

 

[beebopalula]

Karleigh and Leon...

And who are they going to pass to assuming they make themselves available sensibly in the first place ?

 

[hanworthbee]

And who are they going to pass to assuming they make themselves available sensibly in the first place ?

the same players all the others do

 

[jlove]

I think Leon is deceptively quick as he has shown on a number of occasions with last ditch tackles after turning to chase down a striker. What worries me about Osborne is that he gets bullied too easily and tends to get the wrong side of the striker. For some reason he has gone backwards form wise and I don't know why. I expect him to play alongside Llera vs Scunny though.

I'll rephrase that: Leon is deceptively quick as he has shown on a number of occasions with last ditch tackles after being turned by a striker. I don't think he had what you'd call "quick feet"; he needs a ball-player alongside him. Our best defender in the air, though. I believe that Karleigh's recent performances are caused by lack of confidence, not lack of ability.

It's a difficult call as each has strong points and weak points, which is why I think that the opposition will cause Uwe to continue to chop and change.

 

[beebopalula]

the same players all the others do

Evidence suggests it will either be to the opposition with a misplaced pass or a long ball which usually means the same thing. I have a belief that players are either natural footballers or they aren't and no amount of coaching will help unless the inclination is there to start with. Unfortunately I don't think either player is a natural so they need a footballer alongside. Uwe wants the passing option and I can't believe he will persist with these two together on anything other than an exceptional basis as it will undermine the approach he wants to introduce.

 

[shouldbee]

Llera / Eger or Llera / KO..............defenders need to be able to do more than just boot/ head the ball as far as they can....

 

[GP200]

Llera / Eger or Llera / KO..............defenders need to be able to do more than just boot/ head the ball as far as they can....

.........works for John Terry...........

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Karleigh and Leon understand each other.

 

[shouldbee]

.........works for John Terry...........

you obviously haven't seen Chelsea play then ?

 

[Kingston Bee]

Any pair without Eger.

 

[Owlsmoor_Bee]

Llera / Eger or Llera / KO..............defenders need to be able to do more than just boot/ head the ball as far as they can....

That's right but first and foremost they also need to be able to defend and Eger has so far struggled somewhat with that aspect IMO.

 

[larrysigny]

Players to fit systems, not systems to fit players.

Oh come on - going back to the depths of time, do you really think Alan Shearer or Jimmy Greaves should have played to a fixed system - or even furtrher back, should Matthews, Finney or our own Johnny Brooks have been made to track back and defend in their own penalty areas?

Surely, you fit the system (if any) to the players you have available. - or just get 11 footballers and let 'em play naturally.

 

[beebopalula]

Oh come on - going back to the depths of time, do you really think Alan Shearer or Jimmy Greaves should have played to a fixed system - or even furtrher back, should Matthews, Finney or our own Johnny Brooks have been made to track back and defend in their own penalty areas?

Surely, you fit the system (if any) to the players you have available. - or just get 11 footballers and let 'em play naturally.

I like that one Larry. Get your 11 best footballers and they will sort it out. Used to work in the old days and still does now [ Barcelona and Spain]. That's why 4-5-1, 4-4-2 etc doesn't mean anything really.

 

[beebopalula]

Karleigh and Leon understand each other.

Probably because they play the same way

 

[bostonhanwell]

Fully fit it would be KO and LL for me.

 

[bennyb]

interesting discussion , i think the amount of goals we have shipped recently and legge missing from the starting line up are connected, so who to play along side him? llera has played some great passes but i think karligh has the ability to play just as well and is better in defence. so lLL and KO for me.

 

[wadbee]

Llera / Eger or Llera / KO..............defenders need to be able to do more than just boot/ head the ball as far as they can....

First and foremost defenders need to be able to defend - and I'm not convinced
Eger is equipped to do that regularly in this Division.
I put the first three Huddersfield goals down to him last week.
Leon can defend and has shown himself to be the nearest to Terry Evans we have had. Would guess that Uwe in offering Leon new terms before KO
might have a preference to.

 

[Mick.C]

Horses for courses at the moment..Uwe wanted four central defenders and has them.

Eger and Llera have been signed on Uwe's watch so will feature significantly between now and January. Eger is a not a good match partnered with Karleigh so far, no communication and IMHO Eger's poor judgement in some games has caused Osbornes game to go off the boil.

Legge has been the best of the four so far, but being injured now for as many games as he's played has enhanced his reputation against the other three.

For me it's Leon and Karleigh when fit, they talk to each other and look the stongest and quickest pairing.

Uwe system as we've seen is playing it out from the back and being a threat at set pieces, so second guessing Rosler at the moment it looks like Llera and one of the other three between here and January. Think all four defenders will play 20+ games this season for us as Rosler finds the key.

 

[Bigbee]

Osborne has the attributes to have it all ,defenders with strength and pace can be worth £mmmmm,s .


Him and Legge for me .

 

[rebus]

Oh come on - going back to the depths of time, do you really think Alan Shearer or Jimmy Greaves should have played to a fixed system - or even furtrher back, should Matthews, Finney or our own Johnny Brooks have been made to track back and defend in their own penalty areas?

Surely, you fit the system (if any) to the players you have available. - or just get 11 footballers and let 'em play naturally.

We're not in the depths of time. Shearer and Greaves did play to a system, none of them were given a free reign. Surprised you made this comment, perhaps I'm not. Most systems don't require front men to track back. "let 'em play naturally" died out in the Edwardian era.

 

[Brickie Chap]

Mickey Droy & AN Other

 

[Newbury Bee 09]

Legge and Osborne

 

[SmiffyBee]

Mickey Droy & AN Other

Graeme Hogg ?

Where's the poll ?

 

[Balders Bee]

Horses for courses at the moment..Uwe wanted four central defenders and has them.

Eger and Llera have been signed on Uwe's watch so will feature significantly between now and January. Eger is a not a good match partnered with Karleigh so far, no communication and IMHO Eger's poor judgement in some games has caused Osbornes game to go off the boil.

Legge has been the best of the four so far, but being injured now for as many games as he's played has enhanced his reputation against the other three.

For me it's Leon and Karleigh when fit, they talk to each other and look the stongest and quickest pairing.

Uwe system as we've seen is playing it out from the back and being a threat at set pieces, so second guessing Rosler at the moment it looks like Llera and one of the other three between here and January. Think all four defenders will play 20+ games this season for us as Rosler finds the key.

Lot of sense written, only point I slightly disagree with is blaming Egers 'poor judgement' for KO's blip in form. KO has developed into a good defender hoever he hasn't totally eradicated the occasional brainstorms and poor games although he's getting there, his consistency is improving and people are right when they say he has all the attributes of a top class Championship level centre half at least. If he can realise that only time will tell.

Legge is a good old fashioned bread and butter centre half. Few frills about his game and not comfortable with the ball at his feet however is immensely strong and loses few physical battles.

I desperately want Eger to succeed, he does look comfortable on the ball and reads a game reasonably well, however he has on occasion needs to be stronger and more decisive. I'm hoping that he continues to adapt to Division One football and that we see the best of him in the second half of the season partnered with either Legge or KO.

Llera is a bit of an engma, can ping some wonderful passes about the pitch, is another strong player but always seems likely to give something away with a stray elbow or desperate lunge.

So I guess UR will continue to chop and change. Think we've been spoilt over the years with some classy acts at Centre Half Herman, Turner, Ivar, Big Tel (in a different way) and the current crop aren't quite of that vintage yet.

 

[beebopalula]

Osborne has the attributes to have it all ,defenders with strength and pace can be worth £mmmmm,s .


Him and Legge for me .

I think the ' strength' has been exposed as untrue in recent games where he's been swatted aside by physical strikers. To be worth millions you need a passing game as well or you won't hack it at any level higher than league 1.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

What struck me in particular watching Eger against Huddersfield was that on two occasions at least he seemed to duck out (or at least step away from) an ariial challenge. One example was Rhodes' header which went narrowly wide in the first half: as it came over, Eger was marking Rhodes and then suddenly stepped away from him (and it wasn't because JR sent him the wrong way.

At present, ME reminds me of Pim - quite good on the ball but not really able to defend. Karleigh for me therefore.

When Llera first played for us, there was a real feling of awe at a couyple of his long passes - rather in the same way as we saw when Karleigh first showed he'd got a mean pass on him. However, ML tends to climb all over the attacker when defending, and LL is more of a threat at corners. Legge for me.

On average, then, KO and LL for me.

Against that, there are times when a hard and fast rule can't apply.

For example, if there is an opposing centre midfield that is strong in the air, it may be the time to play Llera as an advanced centreback in a 5-man defence as we have seen earlier this season. Also, when teams play just one forward here, when it could be KO or LL in partnership with Llera, allowing Miguel to step up to take the ball forward; or when the opponents don't have a powerhouse centreforward - at which time any combination bar LL and KO could be the answer.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

To be worth millions you need a passing game as well or you won't hack it at any level higher than league 1.

Titus Bramble?

Seriously, there are many centrebacks even in the Premiership who aren't great on the ball. All they need to do is pass to someone who is - even if it's the centreback partner. Cerytainly there is greater emphasis on ball-playing defenders these days, rather than on the likes of Droy, Evans and Baes, but there is still room for the Row Z players even in the top leagues. As someone said, Terry is no Messi, yet he's somehow an England player.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

Osborne, Legge, Llera, Eger.

 

[Guildford Bee]

Legge and Osborne without question.

There's no point in having a centre-half who passes the ball beautifully if he can't defend.

 

[larrysigny]

We're not in the depths of time. Shearer and Greaves did play to a system, none of them were given a free reign. Surprised you made this comment, perhaps I'm not. Most systems don't require front men to track back. "let 'em play naturally" died out in the Edwardian era.

What system did Greavsie play to? He was a goal-poacher - the fastest man on the field over two yards! And Shearer's method was "pass the ball to me and I'll do the rest".

And do I gather that a way of playing should be dismissed - simply because it's old? It's a way the fans love, the players appreciate, and was successful? Why change it just because it's not modern?


*if front men aren't asked to track back - how did we score an own goal on Saturday?

 

[Balders Bee]

Legge and Osborne without question.

There's no point in having a centre-half who passes the ball beautifully if he can't defend.

Absolutely agreed defending is the first priority but followed a very close second by distributing the ball intelligently. Losing it or hoofing it aimlessly will not do under the type of system UR is trying to play, this is why we are currenlty struggling to find the balance. Can Legge and Osborne do that consistently I'm not so sure?

 

[beebopalula]

Titus Bramble?

Seriously, there are many centrebacks even in the Premiership who aren't great on the ball. All they need to do is pass to someone who is - even if it's the centreback partner. Cerytainly there is greater emphasis on ball-playing defenders these days, rather than on the likes of Droy, Evans and Baes, but there is still room for the Row Z players even in the top leagues. As someone said, Terry is no Messi, yet he's somehow an England player.

Trust you to pick on poor Titus . I think they all need the passing dimension to their game these days and as for England-well not much to say is there? The greatest success we achieved internationally was under managers who played keep ball [ Ramsay, Robson, Hoddle for a bit]. However, they were fortunate to have the personnel available to permit that style unlike poor old Cappello who does IMO wonders with what he's got.

 

[beebopalula]

I'm betting that Llera will stay on til season end. What happens when/if Pim returns? I can't see Rochdale paying the wages we are paying. So we'll have two stoppers, two ball players and A.N.Other to confuse matters even more.

 

[jlove]

Llera is cover for Legge, I doubt that he's considered that fantastic that we'd keep him after Legge's return unless one of the other two get injured. Pim's on loan until January by which time he may have played himself back into being our 4th choice CB.

 

[Balders Bee]

Llera is cover for Legge, I doubt that he's considered that fantastic that we'd keep him after Legge's return unless one of the other two get injured. Pim's on loan until January by which time he may have played himself back into being our 4th choice CB.

Personally I'd like to see Pim get a chance under UR, he seems to be getting a regular game at Rochdale and wonder how he's doing.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Legge and Osborne without question.

There's no point in having a centre-half who passes the ball beautifully if he can't defend.

Totally agree. Legge and Osborne without a doubt. Liera is a good stand in, Eger is a liability (at the mom). Longer term would look to offload Eger if he does not significantly improve and either bring back or offload Pim depending on how he is playing. Having said that if we had Thompson longer term he can also play CH (if needed) so may want to do that when Logan returns.