centre midfield

centre midfield

we have to accept that AS likes to play two central midfielders with defensive qualities.

that counts out the allan cochram types (for those not old enough to remember him all pazzazz, what talent, what a shot... but not a worker bee.)

what we (ok, he...) needs to do is find someone who is able to break play up, defend, run about for ninety minutes + and have the ability to pass the ball anything from 10 - 40 yards with a bit creativity too.

jackie graham did this, evans of course, chris kamara did also as did (to a lesser extent) warren aspinall.

they can still be found i am sure!
 

centre midfield

dave has been absolutely rubbish this season, he is far too weak, backs out of challenges and he can pass the ball but most of the time walks around and doesnt get involved.

bean's problem is that he drifts in and out of games hugely and has been so inconsistent, when he plays well then hes a real threat but recently his just been abysmal, not got involved in so many games ( aldershot was a joke) and scott continues with him. KOC is a good player but he is defesnive and when playing with the non existent bean/dave it means there is no one in central midfield who can do anything with the ball going forward and actually create some changes

Hunt is the answer, no question. He always plays well, tackles hard, plays the ball around, can take set pieces sensibly and never fades out of the game. For scott to leave him out in place of bean/ dave is idiotic, he is what we need right now but as usual Scott cant see whats going wrong, our central midfield is crap atm. And as usual he wont change it, wont take any responsibllity for the problem and will not doubt blame the problems on the fact that "the game plan wasn't followed". Well if it isnt being followed and we dont have a central midfield, heres an idea scott :idea: bloody well do something about it. :mad1::banghead::mad1:
 

centre midfield

blunstone said:
we have to accept that AS likes to play two central midfielders with defensive qualities.

that counts out the allan cochram types (for those not old enough to remember him all pazzazz, what talent, what a shot... but not a worker bee.)

what we (ok, he...) needs to do is find someone who is able to break play up, defend, run about for ninety minutes + and have the ability to pass the ball anything from 10 - 40 yards with a bit creativity too.

jackie graham did this, evans of course, chris kamara did also as did (to a lesser extent) warren aspinall.

they can still be found i am sure!
Click to expand...

Incorrect !

We need to find a new manager who will play a different way. The Scott way will never work and in any event he doesn't recognise that Bean and O'Connor are ineffective.

:wave:
 

centre midfield

hjohayes said:
dave has been absolutely rubbish this season, he is far too weak, backs out of challenges and he can pass the ball but most of the time walks around and doesnt get involved.

bean's problem is that he drifts in and out of games hugely and has been so inconsistent, when he plays well then hes a real threat but recently his just been abysmal, not got involved in so many games ( aldershot was a joke) and scott continues with him. KOC is a good player but he is defesnive and when playing with the non existent bean/dave it means there is no one in central midfield who can do anything with the ball going forward and actually create some changes

Hunt is the answer, no question. He always plays well, tackles hard, plays the ball around, can take set pieces sensibly and never fades out of the game. For scott to leave him out in place of bean/ dave is idiotic, he is what we need right now but as usual Scott cant see whats going wrong, our central midfield is crap atm. And as usual he wont change it, wont take any responsibllity for the problem and will not doubt blame the problems on the fact that "the game plan wasn't followed". Well if it isnt being followed and we dont have a central midfield, heres an idea scott :idea: bloody well do something about it. :mad1::banghead::mad1:
Click to expand...

i like hunt but he is another defensive midfielder!
 

centre midfield

blunstone said:
we have to accept that AS likes to play two central midfielders with defensive qualities.

that counts out the allan cochram types (for those not old enough to remember him all pazzazz, what talent, what a shot... but not a worker bee.)
Click to expand...

What would we give for a player like Cochram now ? 1989/90 we had a worse start to the season than this one, bottom of the table and just been beaten by Col U in the FA cup 1st round(who were bottom of the old 4th) at home

Cochram recalled to the side away at Northampton the following week and destroyed them. Ended up solid mid table position after practically being down and out up to Xmas.

Moral of the story is what a difference a quality midfielder can make. Then again I think I'm probably preaching to the coverted.
 

centre midfield

Bean has good games against Birmingham, Everton, Hull, Peterboro, etc - games where we have little of the ball as we're up against team who keep posession with technically decent players. In these sort of games he can round around at 100mph, get under peoples skin and his lack of footballing ability goes under the radar.

But against teams on par or worse than us when we actually need to create and he has to pick passes, shot from distance he looks nothing like a footballer - he's a shovel foot.

Thanks for your part in getting us out of L2 Marcus, but you're not good enough for L1.
 

centre midfield

Hunt deserves a proper run in the team ahead of Bean, no question. Not sure he is the L1 quality playmaker everyone is looking for but MB spends most of most games poncing around on the fringes, and not involved and his ball control is woeful. KOC will never get dropped so forget that one. How the days of Evans, Rowlands and Jay Smith seem so long ago!
 

centre midfield

Robi Bee said:
Hunt deserves a proper run in the team ahead of Bean, no question. Not sure he is the L1 quality playmaker everyone is looking for but MB spends most of most games poncing around on the fringes, and not involved and his ball control is woeful. KOC will never get dropped so forget that one. How the days of Evans, Rowlands and Jay Smith seem so long ago!
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:eek:
 

centre midfield

KOC should be dropped as he is negative, slow and not good enough but i realise this wont happen due to him being MR Brentford. What a load of bo11ox if your not good enough your not good enough simples!!!!! For me it should be:

Weston, Hunt, dave, Simpson.

Bean is sh*t and has always been but in league 2 and last year he got away with it, he has never been able to control a ball or make a defence splitting pass. People like him because he gets stuck in now and then but this is usually after hes lost the ball in the first place!!!!
 

centre midfield

to be honest if you want someone who is good on the ball and scores goals from the middle of the park then have a look in the prem or championship. Because they dont hang around in league one for long. I dont know the answer!?
 

centre midfield

for me hunt and dave out of what we've got, bryan hughes is without a club atm and in my opinion would be a good signing
 

centre midfield

Kevin does the dirty work, he reads the game well and shuts people down. He is not an attacking midfielder, and we need to have one alongside him. Dave has been poor so far this season, and if he was on song we would be doing much better. So really the only option we have in my opinion is David Hunt. Give him a game Andy!
 

centre midfield

There seems to be a lot of dreamland in this (and many other threads) about the expectation from League 1 midfielders. Too much Champions League on TV! A holding midfielder is never going to be anything other than an unsung grafter; generally KOC plays that part well but was awful yesterday. Hunt is a nice guy but he's never shown anything other than being a good squad member. Bean has on and off days; Dave has had a poor spell but always shines when all around him is going well. If the midfielders we have can stop looking knackered and uncoordinated, they are OK at our level. It's a team thing and even Essien would look rubbish with the others we would have around him.
 

centre midfield

jlove said:
There seems to be a lot of dreamland in this (and many other threads) about the expectation from League 1 midfielders. Too much Champions League on TV! A holding midfielder is never going to be anything other than an unsung grafter; generally KOC plays that part well but was awful yesterday. Hunt is a nice guy but he's never shown anything other than being a good squad member. Bean has on and off days; Dave has had a poor spell but always shines when all around him is going well. If the midfielders we have can stop looking knackered and uncoordinated, they are OK at our level. It's a team thing and even Essien would look rubbish with the others we would have around him.
Click to expand...

No he wouldnt!!!! Not to much champions league as that imo is sh*te an in an unreal world!!!! I think tbh mate we arnt expecting someone like " Essien " but we have in the past had much better midfielders when we had less money so again imo AS is making wrong decisions and relying on KOC, Bean, Hunt and Dave who collectively arnt good enough. Yeah hunts never been the best but i would be giving him a go at this point after seeing the current sh*t on offer from KOC and Bean or Dave. PS: I do like Dave and i do think he has the potential to be better but i feel bean and KOC are at there peak and there peak is not good enough!!!
 

centre midfield

No-one expects Essien, Lampard, Xavi or Iniesta!!

But when you look at the way that reasonably competent players have dominated our midfield in the last 18 months, it is not difficult to see how an improvement could be made. I am constantly amazed by the time that our midfielders take to control the ball - how many times do you see it bounce up above waist level from even simple passes - and how often do you see a decent forward pass made by them even over less than 10 yards.

It worries me that Guttridge, Morris (a centre half), Keates, Jones (Rochdale), Ryan (Accrington) & a number of others have dominated our midfield, with simple & crisp passing and movement. None of them aspire to Premier League or even Championship standard.

Ryan would be a good bet, imo. Stephen Dawson was a free xfer in the Summer - a lot less costly than Diagouraga. Mellis from Chelsea could be interesting on loan. Just a few suggestions - although we've clearly missed Dawson.
 

centre midfield

I remember quite clearly at the Aldershot away game in the league a few seasons back stating that Bean was the worse player we had in midfield and some muppet defending him. Since then I have seen two possible 3 games where he has played well enough to earn a mention.

KOC won't/Can't be dropped but IMO should be dropped.

Against Plymouth the midfield IMO should be:

Stephen Wright with the arm band just to give a bit of bite and he can tackle and pass the ball. His experience and encouragement would be goo0d to gfee up the players.

The other central midfielder would be David Hunt for me. Hunt to play more forward and support the strikers and leave the defence duties to Wright. He should be encouraged to shoot as well

Wingers Saunders and Simpson swapping them every so often to keep the opponents full backs thinking all the time.
 

centre midfield

stevil said:
So would I. He makes Detzi Kruszynski look like Zinedine Zidane.
Click to expand...

lol

I find it bizarre that some people still say you can't have a decent midfielder in League 1. As KGB points out, most of the teams at GP this season have had at least one.

And David Hunt is doing himself a massive favour by not playing at the moment. If this goes on long enough we'll be talking about him like he's the reincarnation of Terry Hurlock.
 

centre midfield

Certainly an area needing strengthening and fast we need to drop the whole loyalty thing with KOC and replace the entire central midfield have KOC as back up with possibly Dave but I think Dave is good enough to start. Get rid of Hunt and Bean and bring in two first team central midfielders then we might move forward.
 

centre midfield

Just listening to 5 live on the England game on the way home.

"the French are just making us look idiots by passing the ball around us, and the manager doesn't have a clue how to deal with it"

Churchbells, I'm ringing churchbells!
 

centre midfield

blunstone said:
we have to accept that AS likes to play two central midfielders with defensive qualities.

that counts out the allan cochram types (for those not old enough to remember him all pazzazz, what talent, what a shot... but not a worker bee.)

QUOTE]

You can say that again. I despair when people suggest we need a player like him. All furcoat and no knickers, as my sadly departed father-in-law used to say!!
Click to expand...
 

centre midfield

seanrs said:
He did what quality midfielders do. Tackled, slowed the game down and passed the ball along the floor.
Click to expand...

Noddy's team never passed it along the floor, it was the most "long ball" side we have ever had.
 

centre midfield

Davee said:
Just listening to 5 live on the England game on the way home.

"the French are just making us look idiots by passing the ball around us, and the manager doesn't have a clue how to deal with it"

Churchbells, I'm ringing churchbells!
Click to expand...

churchbells should be ringing in his ear'ole alright
saw enough of that last night from a lower league team
made us look stupid
 

centre midfield

SHOCK HORROR . READ ALL ABOUT IT - - -

Davee said:
Just listening to 5 live on the England game on the way home.

"the French are just making us look idiots by passing the ball around us, and the manager doesn't have a clue how to deal with it"

Churchbells, I'm ringing churchbells!
Click to expand...

the disease has obviously spread now from west middlesex to Wembley,

1) The government Sports Minister must put out a National Health Warning,
2) A public enquiry to be set up
3) A Quango set up
4) A spokesperson has announced ''It has to be dealt with at local level in order that it is effectively and swiftly dealt with, the source of the disease must be found''.
 

centre midfield

grandad85 said:
jay tabb on loan is the answer
Click to expand...

He is either in starting eleven or on bench for Reading so cant see them letting him go and i imagine Reading may be a little pi55ed off that Hamers on the bench at the mo. But yes i would like him back.
 

centre midfield

IslandBee said:
blunstone said:
we have to accept that AS likes to play two central midfielders with defensive qualities.

that counts out the allan cochram types (for those not old enough to remember him all pazzazz, what talent, what a shot... but not a worker bee.)

QUOTE]

You can say that again. I despair when people suggest we need a player like him. All furcoat and no knickers, as my sadly departed father-in-law used to say!!
Click to expand...


Unlike our current crop of midfielders Cochram was able to find time on the ball and could execute defence splitting passes. No he couldn't tackle (main reason he was at Brentford rather than still at Spurs) but he had players around him that could.

For those of us old enough to remember, who would we prefer as our midfield pairing Cochram and Keith Jones or Bean and O'connor?
Click to expand...
 

centre midfield

Stanley said:
Noddy's team never passed it along the floor, it was the most "long ball" side we have ever had.
Click to expand...

Noddy's team were long ball but probably no more so than todays side. Also they were more effective and entertaining as Bliss and Holdworths were better at holding the ball up (and scoring) than our current forwards.
 

centre midfield

Owlsmoor_Bee said:
O'Connor is meant to be the holding midfielder tasked with breaking up the play, a task he does pretty well IMO and certainly as well as Bean. This should leave Bean to get forward into the final third to support the forward players. Sadly, he's simply not doing that enough and moreover is so lacking in technical ability that he is of little or no benefit in positions where a degree of ball retention is required.
Click to expand...

Bean, Dave and Kev are both good players when it comes to breaking up play, the problem is all of them are pretty useless going forward and the reason we constantly get outplayed in midfield because we can't do anything when we get it other than pass it to Weston who's probably being double marked.
 

centre midfield

seanrs said:
Noddy's team were long ball but probably no more so than todays side. Also they were more effective and entertaining as Bliss and Holdworths were better at holding the ball up (and scoring) than our current forwards.
Click to expand...

When you have players of their ability, I would suggest that getting the ball to them as quick as possible was the order of the day.
 

centre midfield

Les Beeavinu said:
v Reading, Elm Park 0-0. The most long ball performance I've ever seen by a Brentford side. Hoof to Marcus Gayle on the left wing, Bliss and Holdsworth to pick up the knock down. Appalling stuff.

That's when doubts about Noddy's were started ....
Click to expand...

If it's the game I'm thinking of yes it was awful. Wasn't it after this game that Detzi joined and we went on to win our last six games?
 

centre midfield

Westlad said:
Bean, Dave and Kev are both good players when it comes to breaking up play, the problem is all of them are pretty useless going forward and the reason we constantly get outplayed in midfield because we can't do anything when we get it other than pass it to Weston who's probably being double marked.
Click to expand...

Spot on
 

centre midfield

Les Beeavinu said:
v Reading, Elm Park 0-0. The most long ball performance I've ever seen by a Brentford side. Hoof to Marcus Gayle on the left wing, Bliss and Holdsworth to pick up the knock down. Appalling stuff.

That's when doubts about Noddy's were started ....
Click to expand...

I was at that game....shocking
 

centre midfield

Les Beeavinu said:
Allan Cockram is a player who gets better as memories fade. Didn't make it to 100 league appearances, came to us from non-league, went straight back .... he wasn't that good.
Click to expand...

I agree. He had his moments, but no more than that.
 

centre midfield

Our centre midfield is a grey area.We have three defensive midfielders in Dave,Kevin and Marcus and none are creating.Kevin just pass's it simple in a lower league Ray Wilkins way,Dave just runs box to box and Marcus Bean splits the play up.

The fact we have scored so few goals is mainly down to midfield and the poor service the front two have had.

Scott has been very poor in this department and not recognised his own wrong doings.If we had a creative,goalscoring or skillful player alongside anyone of the above to it would not be that bad.Players in the mould of Tabb,Paul Evans,Sidwell,Cockram or Rowlands are the sort of people that would make a real difference.
 

centre midfield

KcBee said:
I was at that game....shocking
Click to expand...

It was indeed.

Thinking about it there are comparisons between Noddy and AS.

Both assistants that got made up to manager , both got us promoted playing a style football not appreciated by all....to say the least.
 

centre midfield

Brentford St George said:
Our centre midfield is a grey area.We have three defensive midfielders in Dave,Kevin and Marcus and none are creating.Kevin just pass's it simple in a lower league Ray Wilkins way,Dave just runs box to box and Marcus Bean splits the play up.

The fact we have scored so few goals is mainly down to midfield and the poor service the front two have had.

Scott has been very poor in this department and not recognised his own wrong doings.If we had a creative,goalscoring or skillful player alongside anyone of the above to it would not be that bad.Players in the mould of Tabb,Paul Evans,Sidwell,Cockram or Rowlands are the sort of people that would make a real difference.
Click to expand...

you missed out Hunt.... not that he features anyway...
and we have a creative midfielder out on loan ffs... Nicky Adams...
 

centre midfield

ladbroke said:
you missed out Hunt.... not that he features anyway...
and we have a creative midfielder out on loan ffs... Nicky Adams...
Click to expand...

Oh David.The best passer of the 4 but clearly not one that would suit our current mould of play :sad:
 

centre midfield

Brentford St George said:
Oh David.The best passer of the 4 but clearly not one that would suit our current mould of play :sad:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure he is the best passer. I think he actually gives the ball away a lot. But I'd love his enthusiasm, engine and set pieces in the team right now.
 

centre midfield

Brentford St George said:
Oh David.The best passer of the 4 but clearly not one that would suit our current mould of play...
Click to expand...
I'd say Dave is the best passer; David is not a ball-winner and he's not really a creator - just a mid-field worker who has a long throw and a reasonable dead-ball kick. He's a "team player".
 

centre midfield

Bean couldn't trap a corpse but I always thought he was much more effective arriving late into the box, as he definitely carry's a goal threat. Sort of a David Platt type player.

We don't really play him that way though so :shrug: :(

Hunt's easily the best footballer of the 4 but he's too ponderous in the first second of possession and gets closed down too easily in my opinion. He needs to be more dynamic when receiving the ball. Surely that can be coached?

I like KOC if we need one holding but I've never really seen what everyone else see's in Toumani. He can definitely get up and down the pitch though
 
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