Chicken & Egg

[tobymaxtonesmith]

My last word is that again you haven't read my post properly.

I do shout encouragement and support the team. Just in my own little way. My Daughter won't even sit next to me because of all the noise I make.

I would literally be ashamed to sing the Barcelona song as it is embarrassing. (In my eyes). As is the new one.

Hahahaha, the Barcelona song's ironic - shall we make it clearer for you? How about 'We've got Lionel Messi' or 'we're the Barcelona of the Champions League'?

 

[wanderer paul]

The point you're missing is that we're differentiating between supporting the CLUB (buying a season ticket etc), and supporting the TEAM (singing, vocal support). This is the point you're spectacularly failing to get.

You're not trying to bring up the old argument of, 60-100 singing/attending are better than 700 sitting quietly attending, are you?

I'm sure the players and management are grateful to all who attend, whether they sing, chant, shout, clap or just sit on their hands and applaud at the end. We're there for one reason, Brentford FC, our club, part of all our lives and hopefully come May 2014 (July 2016 too hopefully!), a club to be really proud of.

The younger generation of singers are doing us proud. As did the generations before. It's just that the ones that went before are mellowing and need to rest their croaky throats once in a while, especially if you've got kids or young adults at home!!

We're all Bees...... :banana:

 

[jlove]

Do you actually know the origins of "the Barcelona song? It is no longer relevant and is, therefore, embarrassing to hear.

 

[BFC1997]

Do you actually know the origins of "the Barcelona song? It is no longer relevant and is, therefore, embarrassing to hear.

Yes I know the origins but it's meant to be ironic. You know, like tongue in cheek, humour?

 

[SmiffyBee]

Do you actually know the origins of "the Barcelona song? It is no longer relevant and is, therefore, embarrassing to hear.

It was / is ironic. Not embarrassing

 

[magicbees19]

I did that in the Oak when I was a youngster

Thanks for supporting us some odd years ago im sure the likes of Clayton and Trotta will remember all of that and it will spur them on to victory on Tuesday

 

[tobymaxtonesmith]

You're not trying to bring up the old argument of, 60-100 singing/attending are better than 700 sitting quietly attending, are you?

I'm sure the players and management are grateful to all who attend, whether they sing, chant, shout, clap or just sit on their hands and applaud at the end. We're there for one reason, Brentford FC, our club, part of all our lives and hopefully come May 2014 (July 2016 too hopefully!), a club to be really proud of.

The younger generation of singers are doing us proud. As did the generations before. It's just that the ones that went before are mellowing and need to rest their croaky throats once in a while, especially if you've got kids or young adults at home!!

We're all Bees...... :banana:

I'm not saying you're doing literally nothing to get behind the team; what I'm saying is that you're doing LESS than people who sing. This seems to me to be indisputable. I went in the Stevenage end at Orient about a month ago, and their 320 odd fans made a fantastic atmosphere. About half of them stood and sang, and despite losing 2-0 they outsung Orient comfortably (not hard, I admit).

Just having more fans, doesn't mean the quality of support is better.

 

[tobymaxtonesmith]

Do you actually know the origins of "the Barcelona song? It is no longer relevant and is, therefore, embarrassing to hear.

Imagine getting angry about this song.

 

[wanderer paul]

I'm not saying you're doing literally nothing to get behind the team; what I'm saying is that you're doing LESS than people who sing. This seems to me to be indisputable. I went in the Stevenage end at Orient about a month ago, and their 320 odd fans made a fantastic atmosphere. About half of them stood and sang, and despite losing 2-0 they outsung Orient comfortably (not hard, I admit).

Just having more fans, doesn't mean the quality of support is better.

Players seeing 500-800 fans in an away end is better than seeing 100 I think you'll find...

 

[magicbees19]

Do you actually know the origins of "the Barcelona song? It is no longer relevant and is, therefore, embarrassing to hear.

Fine lets just get some of those inflatable clapping things we had at Wembley in the JPT final and just bang the f*ck out of those for 90 minutes like a seal with downs and see which is more embarrassing

 

[tobymaxtonesmith]

Players seeing 500-800 fans in an away end is better than seeing 100 I think you'll find...

Not if 95% of them sit tight and make no noise, I think you'd find.

 

[Eieieio]

I don't really understand what people are banging on about in here.

Those complaining about others need to just get themselves and group of friends together at the back of Ealing Road and start some original, funny chants. If people don't join in, then they can bog off from Ealing Road and go and sit in the neutral end at Fulham.

Braemer and New Road are a mix of families, older folk and short blokes who worry about seeing over people's heads in Ealing Road (me.). We do join in with chants/really want to, but the ground acoustic means you sound very alone unless it's a particularly loud one that makes it over from Ealing Road.

And to the bloke that mentioned something about raping the bank of mum and dad. I've been paying for my tickets since I started coming to Brentford in my early teens, first through odd jobs and now through my career - I'm now 25. I imagine a lot of young people also pay their own way to get to the matches. Although I don't fit into the category anymore probably, it always annoys me seeing negative comments about our young fans on here from mostly older, longer-serving fans. Griffin Park is all of ours, and there's new generations of fans coming through - get over it! You were probably no different so give them some slack.

 

[tobymaxtonesmith]

I don't really understand what people are banging on about in here.

Those complaining about others need to just get themselves and group of friends together at the back of Ealing Road and start some original, funny chants. If people don't join in, then they can bog off from Ealing Road and go and sit in the neutral end at Fulham.

Braemer and New Road are a mix of families, older folk and short blokes who worry about seeing over people's heads in Ealing Road (me.). We do join in with chants/really want to, but the ground acoustic means you sound very alone unless it's a particularly loud one that makes it over from Ealing Road.

And to the bloke that mentioned something about raping the bank of mum and dad. I've been paying for my tickets since I started coming to Brentford in my early teens, first through odd jobs and now through my career - I'm now 25. I imagine a lot of young people also pay their own way to get to the matches. Although I don't fit into the category anymore probably, it always annoys me seeing negative comments about our young fans on here from mostly older, longer-serving fans. Griffin Park is all of ours, and there's new generations of fans coming through - get over it! You were probably no different so give them some slack.

You've hit the nail on the head. The attitude of some of the older fans towards the younger generation is very blinkered. It saddens me that there's such a divide between the younger and older generations at Brentford. I don't believe this is the case at most other clubs. Older fans should be incredibly happy at the number of young faces around Griffin Park (more than I can ever remember) - we are the ones who will keep Brentford going after they're gone. We will pass it down to our children, and Brentford will live a long and happy existence.

Everyone agrees that making noise at matches is basically a good thing, although people disagree on how much it helps. So how then, can you claim that not making any noise is somehow just as valuable to the club as making noise? It makes no logical sense. We all want a good atmosphere at Griffin Park, so why don't these people do as you say - get to the Ealing Road (maybe get to know some of the younger fans and realise we're not chavs) and make some noise themselves?

 

[wanderer paul]

Not if 95% of them sit tight and make no noise, I think you'd find.

That is not true. Have a word with a few of them.

 

[tobymaxtonesmith]

That is not true. Have a word with a few of them.

So you're saying players simply don't care about fans making an atmosphere. Bore off.

 

[A Real Mysteron]

Also your point about disposable income is highly misguided. Virtually everyone I know and go to Brentford with works for their money. We don't 'rape the bank of mum and dad'. Consider what you say before making such lazy statements, please.

It's impossible to fight a battle of wits with the unarmed. Also you can't have a discussion on here properly as you would in real time. My point re the bank of mum of dad was more to do with paying a peppercorn rent and being cooked for and cleaned up after. (As I enjoyed when I was a teenager).
I'm sure as I did you all have part time jobs for football and beer money.

Anyway I'm off to work now, and this is pointless and boring.

 

[Aberdeen flyer]

I wonder if the Sloop John B. song at HT was a coincidence

No coincidence - it was deliberate ..and I should know ! lol

 

[tobymaxtonesmith]

Not morally wrong. Just not needed from a kid to fans who have done their tour but may not like to sing now

I notice you've got 'Get rid of Trotta and win more games, thats all you gotta do..simple.'.

You will get called a silly old man if you don't get rid of that.

 

[Billy Hunt]

I notice you've got 'Get rid of Trotta and win more games, thats all you gotta do..simple.'.

You will get called a silly old man if you don't get rid of that.

That comment was made after the game at Stevenage. It is a sort of lucky charm (and a reminder of nocoat's footballing expertise).

This argument is silly. It's been done many times.
Soon there will be no-one willing to partake in the argument cos it's boring.

I know quite a few of our younger supporters (mostly the ones who travel to away matches) and they're just like we were at that age - pissheads who like a laugh.

They're a good bunch.

I think we should be proud that our younger supporters are continuing the Brentford tradition of moaning.

 

[wanderer paul]

So you're saying players simply don't care about fans making an atmosphere. Bore off.

Well that's nice. I've been polite and never slagged off the younger supporters, yet here you are, not taking on board something I've offered you from speaking to players. What an unpleasant young man you are.

 

[Tom the bee]

It's not original but some of the younger generation were singing it on the train to Rotherham.

I sung it with a few people at Orient.

Without the new song all we have is 'Super Brentford FC', and that's been driven into the ground now..

 

[BFC1997]

Well that's nice. I've been polite and never slagged off the younger supporters, yet here you are, not taking on board something I've offered you from speaking to players. What an unpleasant young man you are.

You say you've been entirely polite and not insulting and about 20 characters later you call him and unpleasant young man

 

[Guildford Bee]

I sung it with a few people at Orient.

Without the new song all we have is 'Super Brentford FC', and that's been driven into the ground now..

You're not wrong. The current generation of songsmiths need to up their game.

I remember the great Danny Boxall, Row***** and Aspinall songs of yesteryear...

 

[jlove]

'That' song was relevant under Bees United but I fail to see how singing it when we are no longer a fans' owned club is ironic! There's nothing wrong with fans' songs but they should be relevant; it's also more interesting if they are not entirely monosyllabic.

 

[Aberdeen flyer]

This is becoming a ridiculous thread now - "it's my ball and I am not playing anymore" attitude that will just go round and round in circles without any agreement from either side.We have some really good YOUNG fans and some not so good - like wise we have some really good OLDER fans and some not so good.Can we call a truce here as all this infighting is not good considering the stage of the season we are at.

I also appreciate that it is an open forum with right of free speech but this thread is going nowhere.

 

[Tom the bee]

'That' song was relevant under Bees United but I fail to see how singing it when we are no longer a fans' owned club is ironic! There's nothing wrong with fans' songs but they should be relevant; it's also more interesting if they are not entirely monosyllabic.

Any song that creates atmosphere in what is often (and unarguably so, even for the older generation) a very quiet GP is welcome. Who cares if its 'relevant'? lol

 

[Humblebee]

This is becoming a ridiculous thread now - "it's my ball and I am not playing anymore" attitude that will just go round and round in circles without any agreement from either side.We have some really good YOUNG fans and some not so good - like wise we have some really good OLDER fans and some not so good.Can we call a truce here as all this infighting is not good considering the stage of the season we are at.

Well said. Boring thread now.

 

[jlove]

Any song that creates atmosphere in what is often (and unarguably so, even for the resolute oldies on this thread) a very quiet GP is welcome. Who cares if its 'relevant'? lol

So why don't we sing Blue Moon, then?

 

[Tom the bee]

So why don't we sing Blue Moon, then?

Relevant in relative terms. Be mature please

 

[BFC1997]

So why don't we sing Blue Moon, then?

That's completely different.

The song compares us to Barcelona, you know, the tippy tappy Spanish team who win trophies all the time and have great players and tradition. It's meant ironically. We're not fan owned anymore but the song is still ironic.

Maybe 'it's just like watching Brazil' should be banned from the terraces too

 

[wanderer paul]

You say you've been entirely polite and not insulting and about 20 characters later you call him and unpleasant young man

Are you sure? So being told to 'bore off', after giving a reasonable explanation as to what I think about our support, is totally acceptable eh? If you also think being told, you're an unpleasant young man, is an insult, Then I seriously question our younger generation.

 

[BFC1997]

Are you sure? So being told to 'bore off', after giving a reasonable explanation as to what I think about our support, is totally acceptable eh? If you also think being told, you're an unpleasant young man, is an insult, Then I seriously question our younger generation.

Absolutely, no, you're right, being told you're unpleasant isn't an insult. lol lol lol lol

 

[jlove]

I think you've missed the irony of my response. If we're no longer a fans'-owned club but now have our own rich benefactor, perhaps we should be "the Manchester City of the lower leagues"? Anyway, in the Championship, the "too big for this league" will be certainly irrelevant; time for a re-invention.

 

[Guildford Bee]

'That' song was relevant under Bees United but I fail to see how singing it when we are no longer a fans' owned club is ironic! There's nothing wrong with fans' songs but they should be relevant; it's also more interesting if they are not entirely monosyllabic.

It's a fallacy that the origins of that song are because we were both fans-owned clubs, hence the "too big for this league bit". It was stated as a means of winding up the opposition in league two. Got its first outing at Wrexham in Andy Scott's first game I think.

 

[burnhambee]

Do you actually know the origins of "the Barcelona song? It is no longer relevant and is, therefore, embarrassing to hear.

Great song.

 

[wanderer paul]

Absolutely, no, you're right, being told you're unpleasant isn't an insult. lol lol lol lol

I really do question our young supporters then. Are you sensitive? Do you get upset easily?

Offering an explanation and then getting back petty "bore off", only goes to show he's lost the argument and needs his dummy which he obviously spat out whilst typing. :shrug:

 

[Tom the bee]

Let's come up with a new song then- 'sing on our own' is a pretty good candidate

 

[BFC1997]

I really do question our young supporters then. Are you sensitive? Do you get upset easily?

lol lol lol lol

 

[vcmazz]

Guys! Guys! Look at us! Squabbling! Bickering, like children. What's happened to us? We never used to be like this! :shrug:

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Yes we did. (*note obligatory post*)

 

[FlyBee]

When we are in the Championship:

Just about the right size for this league,
Just about the right size for this league,
We are steadily and sustainably building our supporter base and managing our cost base within the confines of financial fair play,
Just about the right size for this league.

 

[wanderer paul]

lol lol lol lol

An intelligent reply.

I offer an opinion to that tobymaxtonesmith fella and he gets uppity because of a reasonable argument. So you're of the same opinion that 100 singing, and only attending, is better than with 500 attending with 100 of those singing? You think the players prefer the 100 only do you? Well I suggest you find out. You'll both be surprised.

 

[Tom the bee]

An intelligent reply.

I offer an opinion to that tobymaxtonesmith fella and he gets uppity because of a reasonable argument. So you're of the same opinion that 100 singing, and only attending, is better than with 500 attending with 100 of those singing? You think the players prefer the 100 only do you? Well I suggest you find out. You'll both be surprised.

How about 500 singing?

 

[whyteleafebee76]

Jeez, we've recycled this old debate again!

Well I was sat in the old hate corner yesterday and there were old fellas singing, youths singing, me somewhere inbetween singing oh and and my 9 yo lad. Everyone getting on fine and people joining in when they felt like it.

 

[Billy Hunt]

Jeez, we've recycled this old debate again!

Well I was sat in the old hate corner yesterday and there were old fellas singing, youths singing, me somewhere inbetween singing oh and and my 9 yo lad. Everyone getting on fine and people joining in when they felt like it.

 

[Holysmit]

Singing a song doesnt make you a better supporter then those who dont. Putting more money in then others doesnt make you a better supporter then others as its all about what certain people can afford/have the time to put in.

Both viewpoints are as redundant as each other really. Some of our younger supporters do seem to have a complex about proving there support and claiming to be better supporters because you sing a few songs is disrespectful. As you get older you'll understand why.

Utimatley we're all supporters, and we all do it in different ways/have different roles. Some sing others put some more cash in, but please stop trying this im a better supporter b***ocks.

As for the song its utter crap as the words are ***** and its nicked from the Barmy Army who did a much better wittier version. It would also be better if we sang we sing for our own.

 

[SmiffyBee]

Fine lets just get some of those inflatable clapping things we had at Wembley in the JPT final and just bang the f*ck out of those for 90 minutes like a seal with downs and see which is more embarrassing

Offensive comment alert.
Not judging you. But I am judging this comment as substandard

 

[wanderer paul]

How about 500 singing?

It would be nice, but it'll only happen a few times during a game, maybe more if it was a game such as Orient away was.

It's been the same for years. It will continue to be. We all do our bit at matches, whether it's continuous chanting or offering our support at certain points during a game.

But to think the players would prefer to see just 100 singing, as opposed to say 500 attending and 100 singing, is just bizarre. A very odd viewpoint. Is he suggesting we should be like Fulham and take just the 100 and get abuse back with a rendition of, "is that all you take away?" Now that would be embarrassing for the players.

We do seem to come back to this argument on a regular basis, but ends up going nowhere. We have a group of younger supporters trying to drum up support, good on them. We also have 5000-6000 who offer their own way of expressing themselves at times during matches. It's their way and we should respect that.

The end.

 

[BFC1997]

It would be nice, but it'll only happen a few times during a game, maybe more if it was a game such as Orient away was.

It's been the same for years. It will continue to be. We all do our bit at matches, whether it's continuous chanting or offering our support at certain points during a game.

But to think the players would prefer to see just 100 singing, as opposed to say 500 attending and 100 singing, is just bizarre. A very odd viewpoint. Is he suggesting we should be like Fulham and take just the 100 and get abuse back with a rendition of, "is that all you take away?" Now that would be embarrassing for the players.

We do seem to come back to this argument on a regular basis, but ends up going nowhere. We have a group of younger supporters trying to drum up support, good on them. We also have 5000-6000 who offer their own way of expressing themselves at times during matches. It's their way and we should respect that.

The end.

None of that was my point, my point was, as is suggested by the original post in this thread, that there are people who don't support the team in any way unless we play well which I dismissed as ludicrous logic. It was then thrown back in my face and I was told that Brentford fans don't need some kid telling them they need to sing or contribute to the club. Then everyone jumped on high horses and we went back to the argument that has been done to death on the Walsall champagne moment thread.

 

[Billy Hunt]

None of that was my point, my point was, as is suggested by the original post in this thread, that there are people who don't support the team in any way unless we play well which I dismissed as ludicrous logic. It was then thrown back in my face and I was told that Brentford fans don't need some kid telling them they need to sing or contribute to the club. Then everyone jumped on high horses and we went back to the argument that has been done to death on the Walsall champagne moment thread.

Killed some time though, hasn't it?

I'm going to have a cuppa, a cigarette and then a shower.