beesbeesbarmyarmy
Isn't it? Hmm?
Chief Scout
Which one, the one about checking facts? What facts do you have about the very serious allegation that John Griffin is corrupt?
Chief Scout
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Which one, the one about checking facts? What facts do you have about the very serious allegation that John Griffin is corrupt?
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
that is the one.
but i don't recall my post saying anything about corruption. Freud would say that your interpretation of my post suggests.....
OP
OP
beesbeesbarmyarmy
Isn't it? Hmm?
OP
OP
beesbeesbarmyarmy
Isn't it? Hmm?
Chief Scout
Freud would have a field day with you!
I am implying that i am not sure that his intentions are in BFC's best interests. i never suggested corruption. maybe you should retract YOUR allegation....
OP
OP
beesbeesbarmyarmy
Isn't it? Hmm?
Chief Scout
Freud would have a field day with you!
I am implying that i am not sure that his intentions are in BFC's best interests. i never suggested corruption. maybe you should retract YOUR allegation....
If you are saying he is making decisions on behalf of his employer but not in the interests of his employer, then you are saying he is corrupt. I don't care how you dress it up. Now what facts do you have to back this up, apart from Brentford signing two players from the same club?
Chief Scout
if you have to ask the question then you are either being wilfully ignorant or you are just ignorant. i doubt it is the latter.
OP
OP
beesbeesbarmyarmy
Isn't it? Hmm?
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
..lets hope not...Leroy's 'talent' spotting has resulted in us being clear bottom of this division...although how much of that is down to Griffin depends on a number of factors/opinons/crop circles....
Chief Scout
lol
No facts then, just what Brickie Chap says. I'll leave it here.
i have no knowledge of what Brickie Chap knows about Griffin. but i don't disagree with what he says about him either.
Ask Lord Stevens (sp?) how easy it is to find facts in these murky waters. But I can assure you that you won't persuade this correspondent that JG has BFC's best interests to heart.
But if you want to believe that JG is a good man who lives and breathes BFC and wants nothing more than to ensure that it succeeds, then I agree we should leave it here.
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
lol
No facts then, just what Brickie Chap says. I'll leave it here.
I dont believe that John Griffin acts solely in the best interests of Brentford Football Club
Chief Scout
No, but I would guess more have failed than succeeded. One thing that Noades was probably right on was that only about 1 in 4 transfers turn out to be any good longer term.
Its even harder to pick up decent talent when you are struggling club, add the London cost of living factor and you tend to have your options extremely limited and probably need to rely more heavily on your close and good contacts. In our case that is probably Bristol City & Reading at present.
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
...Where are these Premiershite loanees that 'someone' leaked/confirmed/spat at Levack for him to get all exicted as to why we should rejoice that Fitz got the job then
Come on, you drink with his old man at home games...well actually, you dont, you're kind of in his company or he in yours...but if any of you ever ventured into the Club bar I suspect you might purchase a drink between the lot of you
Chief Scout
I dont believe that John Griffin acts solely in the best interests of Brentford Football Club
Regardless of anything else he should have gone when Leroy went IMHO, if not before. A chief scout is a luxury we cant afford and JGs recent record is poor........money paid for people like Willock, Fitz Jnr etc etc even before all the signings with Leroy - the only good one being JK who was obviously LRs man!
It should be a combined job for the manager and his assistant who i`m sure could establish decent links to the likes of Reading, as Coppell is the type who would help us out when he can IMHO.
OP
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beesbeesbarmyarmy
Isn't it? Hmm?
Chief Scout
Whilst i would agree with your point about needing a chief scout, do you know if Griffin had a hand in bringing in any of the signings that gave us the success of the past two seasons? Or was he made completely redundant under Martin Allen? It's easy to point to the players who haven't come off but what about the ones that have?
Chief Scout
I dunno BBBA, i`ve had the impression that JG has more or less been BFCs` unofficial director of football going back to MA`s arrival.
Its true you have to weigh all the signings up but i`m sure we`re well down in recent years. But its not just the places we`re getting them from that concerns me, its the price tags and price sales too. If you take Fitz Jnr.....£25k fee to Watford (?) and 2.5 year contract on maybe £50k a year (?).
If we cant offload he`ll cost us probably north of £150k, Willock even more as the fee was higher, plenty more signed on frees.......bang goes your "profit" on Turner/Sodje etc.
Plus for every DJ we get once in a blue moon you have people like Brooker/Heywood on silly money by our standards which more than cancels it out
Chief Scout
I dunno BBBA, i`ve had the impression that JG has more or less been BFCs` unofficial director of football going back to MA`s arrival.
Its true you have to weigh all the signings up but i`m sure we`re well down in recent years. But its not just the places we`re getting them from that concerns me, its the price tags and price sales too. If you take Fitz Jnr.....£25k fee to Watford (?) and 2.5 year contract on maybe £50k a year (?).
If we cant offload he`ll cost us probably north of £150k, Willock even more as the fee was higher, plenty more signed on frees.......bang goes your "profit" on Turner/Sodje etc.
Plus for every DJ we get once in a blue moon you have people like Brooker/Heywood on silly money by our standards which more than cancels it out
I doubt JG has much to do with the salary & fee negotiations.
However what it does prove imho is that it very difficult to get definite success out of any transfer dealing whether non league or higher earners.
In fact you could say that we waste even more money on our youth set up when only Gayle, Bent, Tabb, Dobson & O'Connor have so far proved any worth over the last 15 years. How many 100's have been failures, but have had good BFC money spent on them?
Thats the nature of the game I'm afraid.
Chief Scout
Agreed but thats a cost the club has to bear to produce some players of its own.
A chief scout not bringing in a conveyerbelt of saleable playing assets is however a luxury in our predicament IMHO
Chief Scout
A chief scout not bringing in a conveyerbelt of saleable playing assets is however a luxury in our predicament IMHO
Show me a chief scout that has years and years of success. I'm sure even Crewe have had some lean periods. You make it sound an easy job. It isn't, some of these non league players earn good money playing football and working and the really good ones tend to get noticed by a host of clubs. As I have previously said getting players into a London club with its cost of living factor makes it even harder. We will always be dependent on local teams such as Hampton and Yeading for local footballers, but if they don't get any good ones then neither will we.
Chief Scout
JK apart (nothing to do with JG i`m sure) who of this seasons signings couldnt have been selected by Joe Bloggs in the New Road
Chief Scout
JK apart (nothing to do with JG i`m sure) who of this seasons signings couldnt have been selected by Joe Bloggs in the New Road
Quite right, but do you know how many he recommended that we haven't been able to do a deal with?
Because we haven't signed to many gems this season doesn't mean he hasn't spotted a few.
kevalutonbee
Well-known member
homelessbee
Active member
Chief Scout
Agreed but thats a cost the club has to bear to produce some players of its own.
A chief scout not bringing in a conveyerbelt of saleable playing assets is however a luxury in our predicament IMHO
Errr, didn't we sell a Mr Dudley Campbell for 1/2 a mill this year already? And Turner and Sodje for a profit? Or does that not fit your argument?
Chief Scout
Quite right, but do you know how many he recommended that we haven't been able to do a deal with?
Because we haven't signed to many gems this season doesn't mean he hasn't spotted a few.
You`re right but am making my point for me
We have £x to spend/offer in wages each close season, end of. Its like me having a look round the Aston Martin showroom, doesnt mean i can buy one
My point being that Reeves/Fitz are surely as capable of identifying players we can afford, (journeymen presently) hence no need for a chief scout anymore IMHO
Ace Face
Well-known member
Chief Scout
My point being that Reeves/Fitz are surely as capable of identifying players we can afford, (journeymen presently) hence no need for a chief scout anymore IMHO
Just think of our losses and nothing else, we cannot afford the luxury of a chief scout and an asst manager. It must be Manager and Player coach only.
Next season even if we stay up we are in deep sh*t.
rebus
On my final warning
Chief Scout
My point being that Reeves/Fitz are surely as capable of identifying players we can afford, (journeymen presently) hence no need for a chief scout anymore IMHO
Fitz & Reeves tend to have their hands full looking after day to day training and reviewing future opponents. They will no doubt get lots of recommendations from varying areas of the game whether it be other manaagers, coaches, Agents etc etc. They cannot possibly fill in and watch all and sundry too. So I would suggest JG networks his local scout contacts to review first then acts on any recommedations although you must also remember these local scouts work for various club scouts and not just JG. Also just because we need a specific players now, doesn't mean you stop looking for potential aquisitions for the future.
We could possibly get away with a part time chief scout and maybe a new broom might be of benefit, but not having one at all will imho dilute future stock.
Chief Scout
Not at the moment no, as we have numerous £75-100k a year passengers at GP - so any profit on players is effectively erased by others salaries.
Hopefully in the summer an axe can fall on the many wasters we have and the club can start with a fresh squad of players on contracts we can afford, with hungry players who want to play for us.
That would be a start
Chief Scout
Hopefully in the summer an axe can fall on the many wasters we have and the club can start with a fresh squad of players on contracts we can afford, with hungry players who want to play for us.
That would be a start
Hopefully we have a Chief Scout already planning for this scenario, rather than waiting until its to late and you can only watch trialists in friendlies.
If he isn't then he should be replaced but we do need one imho.
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
...Griffin knew exactly who was leaving the Club last summer and didnt bother to plan ahead...why should he be arsed this year
Chief Scout
GeeBee,
Judging by this seasons squad would you want the same man being in charge of recruitment for next season?
Theres also doubts about who will be the manager next close-season, a new manager might have irons in a fire of his own
Judging by this seasons squad would you want the same man being in charge of recruitment for next season?
Theres also doubts about who will be the manager next close-season, a new manager might have irons in a fire of his own
Chief Scout
...Griffin knew exactly who was leaving the Club last summer and didnt bother to plan ahead...why should he be arsed this year
You might be right, but then again some of his recommendations may have chosen other options once MA left us managerless. He needs a manager in place to agree to his recomendations and I am in no doubt some may have been missed out on because of our predicament over who was to be manager. We started pretty much a month after the starting gate had gone up.
I'm not even saying JG is the right man, I'm just saying that you do need a scouting system that is controlled by one man and that cannot be the 1st team manager who just doesn't have the time to view and monitor recomedations that the club probably get on a near daily basis.
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
John Griffin knew at 'least a couple of weeks' before MA officially left that he was going. JG was never following him and knew that his future remained with BFC. He still didnt bother to plan ahead. In fact...actually why do I ****ing bother myself...all you muppets carry on in the belief that this old man is harmless....
Chief Scout
GeeBee,
Judging by this seasons squad would you want the same man being in charge of recruitment for next season?
Theres also doubts about who will be the manager next close-season, a new manager might have irons in a fire of his own
In all honesty I don't know, because I don't know what it cost us in potential signings when MA left us managerless for a month or more. As it stands we might be in the same situation again if any future recruitment takes just as long. Any scout can only go out and give his recommedations, if deals cannot be struck because of other reasons within the club at any particular time can you say that is just soley down to poor work by JG?
I'm not bothered whether its JG in charge next season of scouting networks, but whatever happens we will need someone.
Chief Scout
You are sounding like ROB with your supposed facts. I have heard of allegations that both Chris Cohen & Hollands had agreed to join Brentford but had a change of heart because of the manager that was appointed.
You have no proof that he didn't plan ahead and two weeks is not planning ahead. Getting players to join is the hardest part of scouting especially the good players as they tend to be courted by many clubs. I have never said anyone was harmless, mainly because I don't know. I'm just trying to make an argument for the difficulties involved in scouting potential new players.
I'd like him to leave in fact, because it will probably prove that the next man has no greater luck (which is much needed in scouting) than JG has had in teh last 18 months.
Bush Tuckerman
Tactical Genius
Chief Scout
Both courtesy of Steve Coppell.
Perhaps we should ask Coppell for his recommendations on players for this level - with an option to sell them on to him at Reading further down the line.
Effectively act as a more established feeder club for Reading in exchange for his insight.
rebus
On my final warning
Chief Scout
What if we offered Scott the facility to use a bank of scouts from the GPG? There are a number on here who sound like they have an in depth knowledge of what would make a good Bees player. Fitz could say he needs people to go to game x and assess player y. Some of us could volunteer and write something up for him. Feels like we could cover many more games and would reduce the load on the mangerial team. They could then focus on the brightest prospects.
We could put all of our spouting off to some practical use.
We could put all of our spouting off to some practical use.
Chief Scout
Why would JG change what he and LR did last summer. Wait til 2 weeks before the season starts then panic buy and fill a team struggling for fitness and cohesion with trialists and nomads.
Well done on DJ, but last summer was an embarrasing shambles in terms of getting players in. :sad:
Brickie Chap
Muppet Hunter
Chief Scout
Ok, you're correct, you always are
I'll stand here with the little knowledge I have and chuckle to myself whilst you and others continue with your posts
Downbeat Bee
Well-known member
Mr Cynical
Moderator
Chief Scout
Half the problem was it wasnt until quite late that Leroy was appointed. I should imagine if there were any plans for players to bring in, most would have signed up elsewhere by then. Equally, I can't see how Griffin could have brought players in before a new manager was appointed?? Doesn't excuse the poor quality of players brought in in the end though.. .
The big worry for me though, is that if we go down we may well end up in the same situation, scrabbling around for a new manager who then has to do the last minute search for new players.. (and he'll need a lot of them too..)
Watford Bee
INVALID EMAIL
Chief Scout
I have no personal knowledge of Griffin but, like many, was surprised that someone who was thought of as a key member of the Noades set-up should remain and get promoted once BU "took control" of the club.
However, I do feel some of the criticism is OTT. He may have suggested Fitz Jr to MA - but MA had him in on loan first and MA must have decided he was worth a 2-year contract. Similarly with Willock, JG may have recommended him - but it was over a year later that MA was able to get him. With all the miles that MA and Whit travelled to watch games, they must have seen him play a good few times before comitting to a fee and contract.
Again, with the fiasco this summer - I genuinely feel that LR was short of options because MA had tied-up so much of the budget in Oli, Lloyd, Brooker and the 2 above. LR also felt it was important to reward those on lower wages still tied on contract. JG may have suggested this, but surely this was the manager's decision. IMHO LR's big mistake was not in trusting Griffin too much - but in trying to follow the Burgess/Dykes sexy football mantra.
In summary, I dont understand why Griffin has been considered so important for so long by so many in control at BFC - but I do feel it is OTT to blame him for all of our current problems.
However, I do feel some of the criticism is OTT. He may have suggested Fitz Jr to MA - but MA had him in on loan first and MA must have decided he was worth a 2-year contract. Similarly with Willock, JG may have recommended him - but it was over a year later that MA was able to get him. With all the miles that MA and Whit travelled to watch games, they must have seen him play a good few times before comitting to a fee and contract.
Again, with the fiasco this summer - I genuinely feel that LR was short of options because MA had tied-up so much of the budget in Oli, Lloyd, Brooker and the 2 above. LR also felt it was important to reward those on lower wages still tied on contract. JG may have suggested this, but surely this was the manager's decision. IMHO LR's big mistake was not in trusting Griffin too much - but in trying to follow the Burgess/Dykes sexy football mantra.
In summary, I dont understand why Griffin has been considered so important for so long by so many in control at BFC - but I do feel it is OTT to blame him for all of our current problems.
letsallgotolourdes
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Chief Scout
Conspiracy theories
Stone the crows, all these years I've been wasting my time over who really shot JFK, what happened to Lord Lucan, who killed Princess Di and all the time the greatest conspiracy theories have been right under my nose at Griffin park.
Stone the crows, all these years I've been wasting my time over who really shot JFK, what happened to Lord Lucan, who killed Princess Di and all the time the greatest conspiracy theories have been right under my nose at Griffin park.
-superbees2k3-
Mass Debater
Chief Scout
Agree that some of the criticism towards JG is unfair although i also agree that a chief scout is a luxury we cannot afford.
RoyalOakBee
Active member
Chief Scout
Stone the crows, all these years I've been wasting my time over who really shot JFK, what happened to Lord Lucan, who killed Princess Di and all the time the greatest conspiracy theories have been right under my nose at Griffin park.
Mafia/CIA two gunmen and a patsy
He topped himself cos he was a yellow coward
Without a shadow of a doubt ordered by Prince Phillip
I am with PJ and Brickie Chap......somewhat strangely!
Chief Scout
When was LR appointed and how many decent players had already been swallowed up elsewhere before LR was even in the job and therefore working with JG?
How many of JG recommendations joined other clubs?
FFS BFC were in turmoil last end of season and even if and it is an if as I don't know, but even if JG had planned well in advance all the following seasons targets, do you actually think many would have wanted to join?
Also planning well in advance means knowing well in advance what your budget is going to be, has that ever been the case at BFC?
Also if you look at any lower league clubs pre-season build up you will see most have lots of trialists and nomads. Its how football at our level has to work when very little money is available.