Consortium?

[crawleybee]

This is a very pie in the sky idea, but I was just wondering...

How easy/hard would it be to try and create a consortium of rich business people to put money into the club?

 

[rebus]

What is your definition of "putting money into the club"?

What sort of likley return do these businessmen get from handing cash over and if it's a low one, why would they bother?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Good idea - should be a doddle. If we can get someone on it Monday, we should have it wrapped up by Tuesday week. How much do you reckon? I'd say £5m would be a start.

 

[JTofBFC]

Love of the club. An interest. It happens at lots of clubs.

Don't waste your time crawleybee. BU aint interested in following anything bit the failed fan owned model which apparantly will work fine once we get to Lionel Rd if we still exist.

 

[rebus]

Love of the club. An interest. It happens at lots of clubs.

I know - it's currently happening with us. We are extremely lucky to have a person that has lent us over £3 million pounds.

Given our set of circumstances, how likely do you think another such individual will pop up out of the woodwork?

A shame you didn't ask this question at the fans forum but I did notice you were well hidden at the back.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

A shame you didn't ask this question at the fans forum but I did notice you were well hidden at the back.

Are you the fighting wing of BU?

 

[JTofBFC]

Expected smokescreen.

I suppose there may come a point when BU will realise they aren't protecting the club but actually harming it.

I wonder when that will be, Blue Square, Ryman?

They don't necessarily pop out of the woodwork uncourted. A public indication that BU was willing to change the model might lead to some action and I doubt our existing benefactor will plough much more into the club unless BU are prepared to release some of their shareholding.

 

[crawleybee]

What is your definition of "putting money into the club"?

Consortium is a risk spreading concept, e.g. quite a few investors putting some money in so no-one in particular is pumping huge sums but as a collective group they are putting in enough to keep the club alive. So that's sort of what I meant, investing in the club enough to help keep it alive.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

We have a consortium in charge at Brentford though and they have substantially assisted and improved our financial position. I can't see a different consortium doing anything different to this one.

 

[JTofBFC]

Bees United can continue to sit in the background and do their good work. They don't need to hang on unnecessarily to a majority shareholding thus preventing anybody else who would want to assist with working capital and money to make us a competitive force again.

There is room for both types of "consortium"- (although BU is not really a consortium more a members club) but there is not room for both unless BU move over a bit.

Dickens is bleating on about the average gate being up with budget. He obviously hasn't seen the momentum. Wait till next Tuesday and work that into your end of season loss calculator. This club is desperate for working capital. BU cannot provide that and as a result we will continue to slide.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

The BFC board doesn't appear to be bound by BU policy though. At the FF, it was announced that Matthew Benham is willing to put in £200k for players and I assume that the board approved that without recourse to BU (although may have discussed it out of courtesy).

 

[JTofBFC]

I'm not sure when this £200k is actually going to materialise. We were first told about it at a previous forum last year. Lets hope it is actually in time to be of some use to the club this season.

In any event there seem to be various strings around it being used for young players which doesn't seem that unreasonable. I expect Benham doesn't want it blown on another Shipperleyesque figure. To be honest, if I was Benham, I'd be more concerned about who was going to spend it. It might be better spent on paying off the current management team but if Benham isn't going to fund that then who is ?? Maybe those who appointed them could chip in. Like hell.............

 

[VTG]

Dickens is bleating on about the average gate being up with budget. He obviously hasn't seen the momentum. Wait till next Tuesday and work that into your end of season loss calculator. This club is desperate for working capital. BU cannot provide that and as a result we will continue to slide.

Alright there Captain Negative. Did you read Dickens' programme notes from Tuesday?

...you'll see that our Club is reporting a 'bottom line' loss of £61,000 for last year. In perspective, this compares to BFC's reported losses across the past 6 or 7 years of £692,000 on average each year. Also, this compares to Deloitte's Annual Review of Football Finances, May 2007, which shows the average loss for a League 1 Club at £700,000

Who is it that hasn't seen the momentum? Dickens may have admitted himself that he lacked experience, but to reduce the loss by that much, no matter how it's been done, is IMO admirable given the circumstances.
On pitch will probably ultimately be where it's won or lost with regard to income, as the club is overly-reliant on matchday attendances, but it seems to me like good things are happening with regard to redressing the club's finances. Given also the introduction of two more than competent brains to the board, I can only see improvements on that side of things.
Given the above, do you really think that for the club to survive we need a budget of £1.5m which ultimately pushes our operating losses right up? I'd be happy with survival in L2 or with any luck L1 until alternative revenue streams can be made available, the major one at the moment being Lionel Road, as a potential investor is publically nowhere in sight.
Things like this take time to sort out. Not all things can happen instantly.

 

[JTofBFC]

lol. You obviously didn't read the preamble to the annual accounts where Dyke virtually admitted that our relegation last season was a direct result of the loss being so far inside budget.

It may have passed you by that we received transfer fees from Campbell, Sodje and Turner but failed to reinvest it in the team hence the fact we were relegated.

Well done though Mr Dickens. Award yourself a massive pat on the back for doing so well. Maybe you can be as successful again and see if we can end up in the Blue Square this time. Slight problem there. We don't have anybody left to sell that has a value............

 

[JTofBFC]

Given the above, do you really think that for the club to survive we need a budget of £1.5m which ultimately pushes our operating losses right up? I'd be happy with survival in L2 or with any luck L1 until alternative revenue streams can be made available, the major one at the moment being Lionel Road, as a potential investor is publically nowhere in sight.
Things like this take time to sort out. Not all things can happen instantly.

Yes, I do think we need a budget of £1.5m to get out of League 2. It will only push our debt up if it is provided by loans rather than equity which can't happen as BU are clinging on to the 60% stake they don't need. It is possible to get by on a lower budget but only if you appoint the right man and that means paying for him. We clearly don't have a Board who are capable or willing to do that.

I personally am not happy with survival in L2 but each to their own. My biggest concern is that "survival" in L2 is not that easy. You risk sliding even lower which would be a disaster and probably death to the club but if you want to risk that.... BU seemingly do. WE have been downsizing under BU for the last 2 seasons. We will be looking at a gate of c 3000 on Tuesday and had better get used to that. Maybe you are happy that we have found our level under BU. Personally, I preferred the old level better.

We are not currently looking for an investor at least I have seen no public statements from BU which indicate they are willing to relinquish part of their shareholding.

 

[Thomas Bathurst]

What is your definition of "putting money into the club"?

What sort of likley return do these businessmen get from handing cash over and if it's a low one, why would they bother?

Why is Matthew Benham bothering?

 

[VTG]

The alternative to not keeping hold of that money was most likely to let the interest repayments kill the club if the players we'd bought had been unsuccessful. Given this season's runaway successes in the signing stakes, I'm glad we kept hold of the money.
I'm happy with L2 survival compared to the less-desirable alternative, until the club can get back on its feet. In case you hadn't noticed, for the club to be attractive to investors, the finances have to look attractive. Better ask for investment with a £61,000 operating loss than one of £700,000, no? At least that way there's more chance of someone wanting to put in instead of simply seeing that their money will only reduce the operating loss. I'll make the point again, turning around something that's in this much mess takes time.
How do you know the club isn't looking for an investor? Why would the club publically state that it's seeking out backers? Maybe just for once Dyke is keeping his prawn sandwich hole shut in the hope that a deal might actually go through although I do live for the day when someone runs him through the definition of "non-disclosure agreement". Not sure why you think what is essentially a private business needs to disclose its everyday internal affairs in a public space.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

We are not currently looking for an investor at least I have seen no public statements from BU which indicate they are willing to relinquish part of their shareholding.

Well, in the programme interview you were happy to take out of context yesterday Dave Merritt is quoted as saying: "If someone comes along who can truly transform the finances of the club I would be ecstatic."

Which doesn't sound like BU clinging onto their shareholding for dear life to me :shrug:

 

[West Ealing Bee]

To be honest, if I was Benham, I'd be more concerned about who was going to spend it. It might be better spent on paying off the current management team but if Benham isn't going to fund that then who is ?? Maybe those who appointed them could chip in. Like hell.............

So you're assuming Benham had no say in the appointment........................

 

[JTofBFC]

The alternative to not keeping hold of that money was most likely to let the interest repayments kill the club if the players we'd bought had been unsuccessful. Given this season's runaway successes in the signing stakes, I'm glad we kept hold of the money.

Incorrect. the interest payments are actually very low as BU has successfully and to their credit managed to get the vast bulk of the debt onto interest free loans and BU are covering what is left in the main. BU are still however bleating on (even at the forum) about the fact that £1m has to be paid back to them in Jan 2009 despite everybody knowing that only a small portion of that is likely to have to be repaid. In fact the bulk of it comes from our own standing order donations. Do any of us want that back?? As far as I am aware only 1 major investor has asked for his money back and BU presumably are working on getting enough to make that a non issue. But then they do like to scaremonger about the debt millstone and use it as a reason why they should continue to be left alone to mismanage the club.

We budgeted for a loss of £500k last year but actually lost £61k and were relegated in the process. It's for you to judge if you think that spending another £440k might have kept us up. The fact we didn't even try to stay up and were happy to leave the budget unspent is a sad indictment of the mismanagement of the club.

 

[JTofBFC]

Well, in the programme interview you were happy to take out of context yesterday Dave Merritt is quoted as saying: "If someone comes along who can truly transform the finances of the club I would be ecstatic."

Which doesn't sound like BU clinging onto their shareholding for dear life to me :shrug:

Big difference between "if someone comes along" and "we are actively looking for someone and would be willing to recognise their contribution with a share issue".

Don't you think?

 

[West Ealing Bee]

We budgeted for a loss of £500k last year but actually lost £61k and were relegated in the process. It's for you to judge if you think that spending another £440k might have kept us up. The fact we didn't even try to stay up and were happy to leave the budget unspent is a sad indictment of the mismanagement of the club.

It's not budget unspent though is it?

It's reducing the losses, which was/is one of the stated aims of Bees United, and always has been.

Without wishing to go over old ground the budget we had from January to May last year was enough to keep us up and more than many teams we competed against.

 

[JTofBFC]

So you're assuming Benham had no say in the appointment........................

I really have no idea but he is on the Board (or his man is) so presumably had a vote !

I daresay that if the worst happens and the next 3 games go badly the emergency Board meeting will need to deceide how to find the money to pay them off and as far as I can see if Benham doesn't help nobody else will. Greg Dyke clearly isn't going to put his hand in his pocket for nowt.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Big difference between "if someone comes along" and "we are actively looking for someone and would be willing to recognise their contribution with a share issue".

Don't you think?

The Chairman of Bes United cannot offering the shares of his members to all and sundry, and if he did I would ask serious questions.

I believe a share issue is something that might be worth considering but I fail to accept BU haven't been persuing investors, people like Alan Bird, Matthew Benham, Greg Dyke, the Wheatley family, have all put six figure sums into the club in the last 18 months.

 

[JTofBFC]

It's not budget unspent though is it?
.

Yes it is.

 

[JTofBFC]

The Chairman of Bes United cannot offering the shares of his members to all and sundry, and if he did I would ask serious questions.

I believe a share issue is something that might be worth considering but I fail to accept BU haven't been persuing investors, people like Alan Bird, Matthew Benham, Greg Dyke, the Wheatley family, have all put six figure sums into the club in the last 18 months.

All but MB have put the money you refer to in to facilitate the takeover by BU in Jan 2006. That is done and dusted now. We need further cash injections to keep the club running on a successful footing.

 

[JTofBFC]

The Chairman of Bes United cannot offering the shares of his members to all and sundry, and if he did I would ask serious questions.
.

Yes he can if it is BU policy. The main reason I have left BU is that it is not and never will be BU policy. (in practice, you issue new shares thus diluting the percentage of your shareholding)

 

[rebus]

The BFC board doesn't appear to be bound by BU policy though. At the FF, it was announced that Matthew Benham is willing to put in £200k for players and I assume that the board approved that without recourse to BU (although may have discussed it out of courtesy).

Not so, any further secured loans by third parties must be routed and therefore approved via BU.

 

[Edmundo]

Yes he can if it is BU policy. The main reason I have left BU is that it is not and never will be BU policy.

How exactly do you know what BU policy is going to be forever? Do you know who all future board members will be and what opinions they will hold?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Not so, any further secured loans by third parties must be routed and therefore approved via BU.

Can BU be outvoted or can that system be circumvented?

 

[rebus]

Can BU be outvoted or can that system be circumvented?

No. Any new loans to BFC that are secured must be routed through BU. Soft loans are a different matter but I believe we are in the brave new world where the tail will not be wagging the dog. Make of that what you will.

 

[Edmundo]

Can BU be outvoted or can that system be circumvented?

BU can't be outvoted as it can always call an EGM where it has a majority.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

So BU have allowed a £200k increase. Did that get majority backing and how is that different to earlier in the season?

 

[JTofBFC]

How exactly do you know what BU policy is going to be forever? Do you know who all future board members will be and what opinions they will hold?

Well if it changes I will rejoice and probably rejoin. I did hold out some hope that it might change a bit under the new Chairman but these hopes seem to have been dashed already as he clearly thinks the fan owned model is a real winner.

 

[blunstone]

anyone who puts money into bfc needs a very thick skin to take all the slagging and flack that is dished out by 'the fans'. this site very much included.

i could but i won't, that is for sure.

but i will, and do, support (including financially) a county cricket club where i and a couple of dozen other benefactors have fun, are appreciated and feel part of a well run - and enjoyable - community of like-minded supporters.

a bit like brentford was many, many years ago under dan tana.

 

[shouldbee]

What is your definition of "putting money into the club"?

What sort of likley return do these businessmen get from handing cash over and if it's a low one, why would they bother?

I really don't think any outside investor would want to pump money / invest !!
in Brentford whilst we have the current management duo there, I would hate to think what Butcher would do with £200K burning a hole in his pocket, probably send Scott down to Brisbane road to sign another couple of has beens on 2 year contracts ?

 

[PJ]

These sort of debates just go round in circles.
The only people who have put money into BFC in the last few years are "friendly investors". Not speculators pumping in a few hundred grand hoping to double their investment, but peeps who care for BFC and wanted to help it stay afloat and hence have loaned the club money interest free when they could have enjoyed the interest on their own cash. Fair play to them

Its all very well people asking for an "outsider" to come in and pump a few million into BFC but lets be honest there is no return on investment. Even if we had successive promotions there is no return for an investor. BFC is screwed and has no future until we secure a new stadium (which needs to be ten times better managed than GP), end of.
The sums do not stack up at GP and never will given our status quo. Our debts are too big and our income is too small.

Its often been said - we`re skint but relative giants in this division compared to most clubs. Its not what you have its how you spend it.
We aint spent well and i fear it will take a couple of years (minimum) to recover some form of respectability because of the policies (or lack of) from the BFC Board on lengths of contracts/ criteria of signings etc.

The club and team team are both a complete shambles. Our only hope is that the evolving BFC Board strike the right common sense formula and manage the club in a pragmatic but progressive way.
Decent , honest PR would be a start to try and bring more supporters on side.

Right now we`re in freefall and Bees fans to a man are totally hacked off.
We have a gutless and frankly embarrassing team which disgraces our proud history and - if we are not careful - will see us plunge into non league football. This whole football club needs a massive kick up the rear from top to bottom, inclusive.

 

[Ashford Bees]

Come back uncle Ron, all is forgiven

 

[Carri Bee Un]

Come back uncle Ron, all is forgiven

:youarea****ersmiley:

 

[IsleofWight_Bee]

Come back uncle Ron, all is forgiven

you've got to be joking....right?

 

[marlowbee]

It's not budget unspent though is it?

It's reducing the losses, which was/is one of the stated aims of Bees United, and always has been.

Without wishing to go over old ground the budget we had from January to May last year was enough to keep us up and more than many teams we competed against.

This seems to be similar to what we are saying this year (i.e. competitive budjet), we compare our budjet with teams in areas where property prices are much lower, and local wages lower also, to my mind a competitive budjet for west london would not be the same as for Hereford, Darlington, Wrexham etc. its a fact of life to be competitive our budjet would have to be higher due to demographics.

 

[IsleofWight_Bee]

budjet? are easyjet getting involved?

 

[Steve G]

Its often been said - we`re skint but relative giants in this division compared to most clubs. Its not what you have its how you spend it.
We aint spent well and i fear it will take a couple of years (minimum) to recover some form of respectability because of the policies (or lack of) from the BFC Board on lengths of contracts/ criteria of signings etc.

The club and team team are both a complete shambles. Our only hope is that the evolving BFC Board strike the right common sense formula and manage the club in a pragmatic but progressive way.
Decent , honest PR would be a start to try and bring more supporters on side.

Right now we`re in freefall and Bees fans to a man are totally hacked off.
We have a gutless and frankly embarrassing team which disgraces our proud history and - if we are not careful - will see us plunge into non league football. This whole football club needs a massive kick up the rear from top to bottom, inclusive.

I couldn't agree more, a lot of fans are voting with their feet and I don't blame them. Lack of money doesn't mean the club can't be run in a highly professional way including good communication with the fan base and a clear sense of direction and purpose. All the spin and waffle about 5 year plans to get into the Championship or having a promotion budget doesn't help anyone.

The two key figures for setting the mood for the club - highly motivated to succeed, bags of energy and commitment - are the Chairman and Manager.

At present Dyke doesn't seem to have any clear responsibilities other than to say 'I'm a Brentford supporter and it's fun being Chairman of a small team.'

Butcher is clearly out of his depth. As he admits himself he can't motivate the players, which is half the battle at Div 2 level. Also he knows nothing about tactics and has no idea how to organise the team (even the defense, which is astounding considering his background as a player).

Between the two of them we have the classic recipe for 100% disaster.

 

[jlove]

It must be that time of the year again, when we're opening the door on our calendars celebrating the invention of chocolate and suggesting that the fairy on the Christmas tree will come down and give Brentford a pot of gold.

A consortium exists at present, as has already been noted;
There is no such thing as an 'investment' in a lower-league football club;
I would have though that anyone who is looking to park some money in someone else's bank account and feels that BFC's account is the place to park it must already be aware of the situation;
There is probably not much more that existing 'money-parkers' are willing to cough up.

This means that, back in the real world, BU is all we've got; if you're not in, you're out.

 

[Carri Bee Un]

They aren't listening jlove. You are wasting your interweb breath.

and PJ :yes:

 

[beeeehive]

BU is all we've got; if you're not in, you're out.

 

[Steve G]

This means that, back in the real world, BU is all we've got; if you're not in, you're out.

It's becoming more and more exclusive by the day ....

 

[Gee Bee]

It's becoming more and more exclusive by the day ....

Why's that then? I believe BU has more members than it did a year ago. Which suggests it's becoming less exclusive.

Imho I feel that if the LR project gets the go ahead, you may see more willing investors turning up. New ground developments have historically brought about added interest from outside investors.

 

[Banana]

Why's that then? I believe BU has more members than it did a year ago. Which suggests it's becoming less exclusive.

Correct.

Several hundred more.

Plus, of course, the likes of Greenholme Bee and others committed to re-join a couple of weeks ago.

 

[abee4life]

Of course the world is made up of rich businessmen who would be more than happy to pour millions into a club with a p*ss poor support, with virtually no hope of a return on their investment.............Get real!