Ditch the wally!

[PAZ]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is unhappy.

Yes he is inexperienced, but he seems to be making little effort to learn from his mistakes.

Yes the team at his disposal is not that great, but there are far worse squads in this division, all the way to the play-offs practically in fact.

IMHO, Wally is the worst manager I have seen. His decisions, actions, and words beggar belief.

If we can get anyone half decent in next season instead of him, I urge BFC to do it.

We want "a fresh start", and that means getting rid of Wally. His removing of Forzoni was a disgrace, and he should never have been appointed. Let's get rid of him at the end of the season. I refuse to believe their aren't managers out there with more ability. Also, make him takle that waste of space Thompson with him. You know it makes sense.

 

[homerbees]

thats harsh, he isnt that bad its coming to the end of his first season and we are going to play division 2 footie next year. Look at what happened from last season left with the reserves, and i think this season has been fine.

Ron also said he is the best manager he has appointed!

 

[PAZ]

thats harsh, he isnt that bad its coming to the end of his first season and we are going to play division 2 footie next year. Look at what happened from last season left with the reserves, and i think this season has been fine.

Ron also said he is the best manager he has appointed!

I don't mind our league position at all this season, but I do mind that this team is undoubtedly capable of playing better than Wally makes it play.

Yes, we will play division 2 football next season. What worries me is that with Wally at the helm we won't be playing it the season after that. We need to take action before it's too late.

Ron said that, did he? Did he say why? And let me guess who was second best... Ron Noades?

Please.

 

[Silly Chip]

Now I know that PAZ is one of the 2 old men which always seems to sit behind me and moan all game!

For f**ks sake we are within a few points of safety - I was not the only one at the start of the season that thought we were doomed to 3rd divsion football! The team showed great character and belief to come back from 2 goals down today.....who gave them that belief? Oh yeah I forgot it was me shouting instructions at half time to the players

On and off the pitch we are consolidating as a club.....we are absolutely crying out for stability. Wally has earn't a contract for next season and so have most of his youngsters! This is his first managerial position.....not bad considering he's on a shoestring budget!

 

[Nick Hester]

Take it then Paz that you haven't suported the Bees for Long?

1) Wally is the first Manager in Brentford history to have not spent or had a penny to spend in a season.

2) Everyone agreed that if we avoided the drop he was a Master Manager at the start of the season.

3) He's trying to get the best out of a poor squad..

Get off his back.. and who else would come to GP for around £35,000 a year??

 

[PAZ]

Take it then Paz that you haven't suported the Bees for Long?

1) Wally is the first Manager in Brentford history to have not spent or had a penny to spend in a season.

2) Everyone agreed that if we avoided the drop he was a Master Manager at the start of the season.

3) He's trying to get the best out of a poor squad..

Get off his back.. and who else would come to GP for around £35,000 a year??

Greenholme,

1) Are there other managers who have spent nothing this season? I don't know the answer to this, but I suspect there are. This is the way of football at present. Wally is not alone.

2) As I have said time and time again, I thought this too. However, this was before we knew how the team would play and what the rest of the division are like. Few now would deny there are a significant number of teams in this division who are worse than us. It would be inexcusable for us to be even close to them.

3) The squad is not that bad. IMO, we are just a couple of players short of a very good team. A central midfielder and a striker, and I refuse to accept that on paper our team is not as good as those in play-off positions, although I accept that the depth is not there.

STOP looking at Wally through rose-tinted glasses.

 

[WarrenBee]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who is unhappy.

Yes he is inexperienced, but he seems to be making little effort to learn from his mistakes.

Yes the team at his disposal is not that great, but there are far worse squads in this division, all the way to the play-offs practically in fact.

IMHO, Wally is the worst manager I have seen. His decisions, actions, and words beggar belief.

If we can get anyone half decent in next season instead of him, I urge BFC to do it.

We want "a fresh start", and that means getting rid of Wally. His removing of Forzoni was a disgrace, and he should never have been appointed. Let's get rid of him at the end of the season. I refuse to believe their aren't managers out there with more ability. Also, make him takle that waste of space Thompson with him. You know it makes sense.

Whilst I agree with your right to free speach Paz,perhaps you would like to answer your own question and let us know who you would have as manager.Put your brain in gear before answering the question.

 

[PAZ]

who gave them that belief? Oh yeah I forgot it was me shouting instructions at half time to the players


.....not bad considering he's on a shoestring budget!

Yes, the team really improved after half time... There was no change until the substitutions - were you at the match?

As for the budget, yes all other division 2 managers get thousands... :yawn:

 

[PAZ]

Re: Re: Ditch the wally!

Whilst I agree with your right to free speach Paz,perhaps you would like to answer your own question and let us know who you would have as manager.Put your brain in gear before answering the question.

Anybody half decent as I said above...

I would rather see another untried manager with perhaps a good record as a coach from a 1st division club than Wally.

Perhaps Forzoni might fancy management?

Frankly, I'd even settle for Eddie May.

I appreciate that we are beggars and therefore can't be choosers, but I can't believe there's nothing better out there than Wally.

I'm quite certain that a sizeable proportion of the fan base could do a better job. At least they might listen and learn, and not sack their best people.

 

[Silly Chip]

There is no pleasing some people PAZ. Are both your hands broken as you seem to need some stress relief

We were 2-0 down at half time and had 1 shot on goal 5 miniutes from half time. We were more fired up in the 2nd half and I do believe scored 2 goals and played a whole lot better.

By the way, who's the other old man you sit next to? Is he a fellow GPG member?

 

[WarrenBee]

Re: Re: Re: Ditch the wally!

Frankly, I'd even settle for Eddie May.

Say no more,you have clearly have lost the plot Paz.

 

[PAZ]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ditch the wally!

Say no more,you have clearly have lost the plot Paz.

lol

 

[PAZ]

By the way, who's the other old man you sit next to? Is he a fellow GPG member?

I'm hoping that you and Warren are in a minority, and that my support will soon rally around me...

Honestly, the one time I want Sweepy and he's not online.

 

[WarrenBee]

I'm hoping that you and Warren are in a minority, and that my support will soon rally around me...

Honestly, the one time I want Sweepy and he's not online.

He was there today,and was standing next to me.Perhaps he agrees with us Paz.

 

[BoroBee]

No support from me, sorry.
I don't like Wally and I don't like his tactical naivete, but I don't think anyone else could have done any better with what and who he's had to work with this year.

 

[Edmundo]

Also, make him takle that waste of space Thompson with him. You know it makes sense.

What insights behind the scene do you have on which to base this insult? Obviously you have your rights to your opinions, but since you have chosen to voice them in such immoderate terms, I can only tell you that my opinion is that you are a fool.

 

[North London Bee]

Wally is the man for next season but it really depends upon the players he is allowed to sign.

Ideally the defence will be OK and the midfield average but without 2 good loan strikers it doesn't matter if we had Ferguson as manager.

He has made all manne rof mistakes this season but we have just about come through with a 4-4-2 system and a better balanced team. Progress in my eyes.

 

[homerbees]

wally has done a great job your just talking out of your ass if you seriously would prefer eddie may to wally downes. Wally in his first year has got us to mid table, with friggin market trolley his main striker because he cant go out and get anyone.

If we sack him we are mad.
WALLY DOWNES RED WHITE ARMY! ! ! !

 

[WarrenBee]

I'm hoping that you and Warren are in a minority, and that my support will soon rally around me...

 

[Sweepy]

I've not been impressed with Wally recently chaps. Sorry.

 

[Debbee]

Few now would deny there are a significant number of teams in this division who are worse than us.

I agree with that, I think that most teams in this division are poor.

The squad is not that bad. IMO, we are just a couple of players short of a very good team. A central midfielder and a striker, and I refuse to accept that on paper our team is not as good as those in play-off positions, although I accept that the depth is not there.

I agree with that too. BUT......

I don't think we should be shouting ''Wally Out''.
OK, he has made mistakes in terms of his team selection ala Fieldwick today. (It is my hope that by mentioning this enough times on here he will get that right @ Wigan next week. )
But every manager we've had including Coppell has made wrong decisions for certain games IMHO.

Come on Wally......... let's have a more consistent end to the season i.e. please get the team to play with desire, passion,spirit and fight in both halfs of the match.

Plus, I'm just hoping you begin to learn from your mistakes a little quicker! Like if it's not working change the team @ half-time or even before half-time if it really ain't working. :yes:

 

[PAZ]

Re: Re: Ditch the wally!

I can only tell you that my opinion is that you are a fool.

You are not only immoderate, but most probably intemperate as well, in my opinion.

 

[rebus]

Re: Re: Re: Ditch the wally!

You are not only immoderate, but most probably intemperate as well, in my opinion.

Chewing the dictionary PAZ? If I didn't know you were a teenager it would be easy to mistake you for Roberto Forzoni himself.

You can dress up statistics in all manner of ways, but his departure had nothing to do with our downturn in fortunes in recent months. I suspect he had little to do with our sucess at the early part of this season either.

I challenge you to name a successor that would be able to work with next season's squad wage bill, which works out to our lowest for a decade.

Wally is right for Brentford. He, in his own words, "loves it" here. The next two years are a matter of patience, not for instant expectations.

 

[Waterlooville Bee]

'You can dress up statistics in all manner of ways, but his departure had nothing to do with our downturn in fortunes in recent months. I suspect he had little to do with our sucess at the early part of this season either.'

I find this statement baffling.
You can dress statistics up to suit ones own purpose but frankly results since his departure speak volumes. Coupled with Brightons upturn in results since Forzonis arrival there would appear to be some inextricable link here in my opinion.
Forzoni clearly had some sort of influence on the players either in preparing them mentally or at least some providing some structure to pre-match preparations.
Before games there was a structured warm-up....now its a general kickabout. This is a superficial example but Forzoni clearly had some influence and I think is absence has been a turning-point in our season.

 

[-superbees2k3-]

Nice one paz you have spoken my mind aswell. Remember wally is one of the reasons rowly is leaving aswell, with wally at the helm i cant see the bees going anywhere.

 

[Edmundo]

Rubbish -superbees2k3-. The reason that Rowlands is leaving is because his contract is expiring and we can't afford to renew it.

 

[-superbees2k3-]

Well what about him getting left out of the team when he is blatantly fit? the manager being a tw@t must have something to do with his departure.

 

[Debbee]

Before games there was a structured warm-up....now its a general kickabout. This is a superficial example but Forzoni clearly had some influence and I think is absence has been a turning-point in our season.

We're definitely missing is infuence IMHO, I think our players have lost something mentally too, since his departure, which has had a detrimental effect on their performances. His warm-down chats to players after the game also seemed to work wonders. :yes:

 

[-superbees2k3-]

Before games there was a structured warm-up....now its a general kickabout. This is a superficial example but Forzoni clearly had some influence and I think is absence has been a turning-point in our season.

Cant see wally teaching the lads fitness either

 

[homerbees]

Remember wally is one of the reasons rowly is leaving aswell, with wally at the helm i cant see the bees going anywhere. [/B]

Rowlands is leaving because he can get a better contract elsewhere, he has been here for over 4 years (wants a fresh challenge) and the club isnt going anywhere while we have Ron Noades attached to the club in some way.

 

[JasonBee]

Heres some stats for you I came accross the other day :
Wally is the 2nd worst manager in the UK according to AIbet.com (Artificial Intelligence for successful football betting.)

The Best...
102 % Harry Redknapp
Portsmouth
91 % Jim Moffat
East Fife
76 % Keith Alexander
Lincoln City
70 % Micky Adams
Leicester City
66 % Mick Tait
Darlington

The Worst...
-62 % Neil Thompson
Boston United
-45 % Wally Downes
Brentford
-45 % Gordon Russell
East Stirlingshire
-41 % John Gregory
Derby County
-32 % John Coughlin
St. Mirren


Undoubtedly we have been poor under Wally 2nd half of the season and he has a lot to learn with team selections IMHO. As has been said he does have his hands tied behind his back, would be a fairer assessment to criticise him after hes spent some money on players he really wants rather than the players he has been left with, although this may be some time away.
One thing that worries me is that when things have gone really bad he has been unable to turn it around.

Interestingly Ron Noades is the 2nd worst Manager at Brentford according to AIbet.com and he had money to spend! lol


Manager Change CAGR
Wally Downes -37 % -45 %
Steve Coppell 74 % 68 %
Ray Lewington 7 % 15 %
Ron Noades -30 % -14 %
Micky Adams -5 % -7 %
David Webb 15 % 3 %
Phil Holder -19 % -7 %
Steve Perryman 6 % 2 %
Frank McLintock -19 % -8 %

Change indicates the overall change in ratings during the manager's tenure.
CAGR is the Compound Annual Growth Rate, this indicates the annual change.

 

[Balders Bee]

No support from me, sorry.
I don't like Wally and I don't like his tactical naivete, but I don't think anyone else could have done any better with what and who he's had to work with this year.

Think Boro Bees opinion mirrors my own really. Like many at the start of the season I was not overjoyed at his appointment but our form up until the New Year meant I had to admit that I had to revise my opinion and eat my words (Forzoni's input and subsequent departure as a reason for our slump can only be conjecture although if you look at the results it does suggest that his input was of significant value).

Since the New Year results and performances have tailed off dramatically, the defeat to Cambris=dge in the LDV seemed to be the cata;yst for the freefall. Wally has made errors, no one would dispute that. People will cite persisting with Big Mac (although I thought he did ok), not being able to get an adequate striker in on loan (though he was reportedly dogged by bad luck in this respect), the fall out with Rowlie (did no one any favours) and now the frankly bizzare selection of left-back. However he HAS done what the vast majority of people thought beyond him secured us a mid-table berth on a shoe string budget which would shame a large Conference team let alone a league one! Many of the people who think Wally should be shown the exit are the same people who were saying we were headed for the relegation trapdoor 2-3 weeks ago before the mini-revival has seen us stagger over the finish line-come on guys give him some credit.

I stand by what I said at the time if Wally could see us to safety he will have earned another crack at the job next season. The club has been through so much turmoil on and off the pitch over the past year that we need to find a degree of stability and that IMO means giving Wally at least another year at the helm to show us what he can do. I must admit I do have reservations but if he can learn from his mistakes he can be a success. The guy is in his first season in charge he's readily admited his faux-pas and no one could accuse him of lacking passion for the job. He's taken us on two decent cup runs and safety in the league-really grounds to sack him-not IMO.

 

[Edmundo]

Jason Bee, your stats are complete eyewash. Wally's score is simply a reflection of the fact that we finished 3rd last season and takes no account of the loss of last season's squad.

 

[Sweepy]

Jason Bee, your stats are complete eyewash. Wally's score is simply a reflection of the fact that we finished 3rd last season and takes no account of the loss of last season's squad.

It appears (judging from the internet name) that AIbet.com is a betting website, although I can't be arsed to check.

If this is the case, then Wally's poor rating will be based on performances compared to the odds. For example, if we were 1/2 to win yesterday, and the team played badly (as they did), then a lot of points will be lost.

 

[Edmundo]

Change indicates the overall change in ratings during the manager's tenure.
CAGR is the Compound Annual Growth Rate, this indicates the annual change.

 

[Edmundo]

I've been caught out of position twice, and i've gifted the opposition a two-goal headstart, but that doesn't matter because i'm having an "otherwise good game". And I know that the boss loves me and I will be picked again next week.

I thought I saw you at the game yesterday, Sweepy, but I must be mistaken as no-one who was there could possibly blame Somner for the first Cheltenham goal.

 

[Sweepy]

I thought I saw you at the game yesterday, Sweepy, but I must be mistaken as no-one who was there could possibly blame Somner for the first Cheltenham goal.

I think a part of my brain is still lying on the floor of the away end at Adams Park! lol

We all know who was to blame for the first goal!

 

[JasonBee]

Jason Bee, your stats are complete eyewash. Wally's score is simply a reflection of the fact that we finished 3rd last season and takes no account of the loss of last season's squad.

Maybe, but when Steve Coppell took over he turned decent players into good players and got very good results, hence his high rating. Not many expected us to finish 3rd, especially after the season before with the same players who finished mid-table.

Wally has taken us to where most expected at the start of the season. I personally wouldn’t say that makes him a really bad manager, just average.

 

[PAZ]

I thought I saw you at the game yesterday, Sweepy, but I must be mistaken as no-one who was there could possibly blame Somner for the first Cheltenham goal.

The first goal was the penalty, I don't think anybody's blaming him for that...

Were you there yesterday Ed? In the dugout perhaps with your buddy Wally?

 

[PAZ]

Jason Bee, your stats are complete eyewash. Wally's score is simply a reflection of the fact that we finished 3rd last season and takes no account of the loss of last season's squad.

Oh yes it does.

I think you're the only one who's eyewashed here Edmundo.

 

[Sweepy]

The first goal was the penalty, I don't think anybody's blaming him for that...

Were you there yesterday Ed? In the dugout perhaps with your buddy Wally?

Haven't you heard the latest, Paz? Edmundo is playing up front with Vine next week. All you have to do to get a start for the Bees is be nice to Wally.

 

[North London Bee]

OK all of you who have been sniping non-stop on this and other threads about Wally and his selections please post your nominations for a potential succesor and how you expect him to do better given a potential £500K player wage budget.

Detailed proposals regarding player releases, resignings, players to be signed on loan and permanently, team tactics and selections welcomed.

Thank you.

 

[Edmundo]

Maybe, but when Steve Coppell took over he turned decent players into good players and got very good results, hence his high rating. Not many expected us to finish 3rd, especially after the season before with the same players who finished mid-table.

Wally has taken us to where most expected at the start of the season. I personally wouldn’t say that makes him a really bad manager, just average.

Most people expected us to be in the bottom four, not midtable.

 

[Edmundo]

The first goal was the penalty, I don't think anybody's blaming him for that...

Were you there yesterday Ed? In the dugout perhaps with your buddy Wally?

Read Sweepy's quote, which clearly lays the blame for both goals on Matt Somner.

 

[Sweepy]

Read Sweepy's quote, which clearly lays the blame for both goals on Matt Somner.

Why are you trying to discredit everyone who disagrees with your opinion? First Paz, then JTofBFC and now me.

Meanwhile, didn't I suggest once that the below quote may, in part, refer to another match?

 

[Nick Hester]

Nice one paz you have spoken my mind aswell. Remember wally is one of the reasons rowly is leaving aswell, with wally at the helm i cant see the bees going anywhere.

The reason Rowlands is leaving is because hes been offered £2000 a week at Rangers???????

 

[Brickie Chap]

It is more than that

 

[Sweepy]

Why are you (Edmundo) trying to discredit everyone who disagrees with your opinion? First Paz, then JTofBFC and now me.

Sorry Brickie Chap, I forgot to mention you as well.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

I think that Downes has at many times this season baffled me with his decisions with regard to picking of players, formations, substitutions etc.
I also don't think he has improved over the season, although changing many things mid-season will be difficult.

I think he has brought in some great players, and many of our young players have made strides forward, this may have happened anyway but we'll never know.

My main worry is his personality, he seems to have favourites and also seems to fall out with quite a few players, this will not do us any good in the long run.

I think he could be a good manager, he seems to have an eye for a player and might pick up a team capable of challenging next season. However, I don't think he will, and would like it if there was someone else who could take over.

This is the crux, there isn't. Not many managers will beon lower pay, and have a smaller wage buget to work with. We aren't going to attract a Coppell again.

Bearing this in mind Wally should continue, but I do fear we will struggle next year, and bizarre management decision may be the cause.

 

[rebus]

OK all of you who have been sniping non-stop on this and other threads about Wally and his selections please post your nominations for a potential succesor and how you expect him to do better given a potential £500K player wage budget.

Detailed proposals regarding player releases, resignings, players to be signed on loan and permanently, team tactics and selections welcomed.

Thank you.

ditto. put up or shut up.