Eni Aluko

hanworthbee

Well-known member
Joined
13 Jun 2005
Messages
39,297
Reaction score
11,927
Location
Ashford

Eni Aluko

All seems to be getting a bit nasty.....can't see Sampson lasting this out even though he has been cleared

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/21/eni-aluko-interview-race-difficult-situation
 

Eni Aluko

Eni Aluko

I wonder if his alleged racism would be quite so offensive to her if she hadn't been dropped from the team?
 

Eni Aluko

I wonder if his alleged racism would be quite so offensive to her if she hadn't been dropped from the team?

but was she dropped for alleging racism? from the little i've read, seems she was shunned as soon as she spoke out - what a coincidence...
 

Eni Aluko

The problem with things like this is you read down and hear the first allegation......which really has nothing to do with race.....unless you're prejudiced/racist/warped-mentally.....and bring race into it. About a meeting.....she wasn't even in!
You might argue he shouldn't be discussing personal details like prior history with the police......but that's something totally separate (and if generally known to them all....no issue....bar perhaps taste/tact/etc).
The second thing mentioned is a sh*t joke in poor taste.........but again far more tame than a joke Jimmy Carr or suchlike will say in their stand-up. Better lock up Prince Phillip too because he's said far worse.
Frankly I can't be bothered to keep reading....scrolling down there doesn't seem to be any more serious stuff.

If there's a part where actual racism comes into it and I've not read it then my next opinion is different......but frankly she seems like the sort of person who has a chip on her shoulder and found an avenue to bring race into things that had nothing to do with race. If that's correct then there's no wonder they wanted rid of her and everything makes sense.
 

Eni Aluko

She was dropped because she was rubbish!

Get over it woman.

As for the comments, yes in poor taste, the FA did their investigation and found nothing to answer, however, the FA paid an amount of money so as it didn't go to a tribunal, you wonder why....
 

Eni Aluko

The allegations have been the subject of two investigations including an independent review by a judge so I can't see the FA agreeing to a third one. One has to ask why she refused to participate in the original investigation.

I would not read too much into the payout, employers/ organisations do this all the time to save legal costs and management time, it is not an admission of guilt.

The previous manager , Hope Powell, was known to have her favourites at the expense of picking better players and Sampson reversed this so I wonder if she was one of ones to miss out in footballing terms.
 

Eni Aluko

The Welsh are a very racist bunch. :thetruth:
 

Eni Aluko

She was dropped because she was rubbish!

Get over it woman.
D'ya think so?

I'm not qualified to comment myself, but considering she's a f-t professional with Chelsea, was first called into the England camp aged 14, made her full debut at 17 and amassed 120 caps by the time she was 29 (still only 30, btw), also represented GB at the Olympics, I personally would be reluctant to call her "rubbish".

As for what's behind this, I really don't know, but I suspect there may be far more than we're being told, since she's not your stereotypical "thick footballer", sure to be harboring some petty grudge:
"While playing for England during Women's Euro 2005, Aluko took her A levels at Cadbury College, Birmingham. She subsequently went to study Law at Brunel University, where she graduated with a First class degree in 2008"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eniola_Aluko

I believe she's since qualified as a lawyer of some sort, too.
 

Eni Aluko

Whatever. :rolleyes:

She was sh*t then. :shrug:

Oh, for reference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/sh*t
 

Eni Aluko

If due process was followed and Sampson was cleared by an independent enquiry conducted by a QC I really don't see how the fact that Aluko had a tearful interview with the BBC changes anything. Why should the guy have his name dragged through the dirt in public if he's already been found innocent.
 

Eni Aluko

If due process was followed and Sampson was cleared by an independent enquiry conducted by a QC I really don't see how the fact that Aluko had a tearful interview with the BBC changes anything. Why should the guy have his name dragged through the dirt in public if he's already been found innocent.

What I am surprised at is that the FA paid her a large sum of money but didn't make her sign a gagging clause. If what was said was indeed true then he should resign. I can't quite fathom why he thought those comments were remotely appropriate.
 

Eni Aluko

There was a gagging clause which prevented her from speaking unless / until the matter became public knowledge via some other route. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the matter, Sampson strikes me as a bit of idiot with an inflated opinion of his abilities e.g. before the 1/4 Final - "The France coach is a little bit wet behind the ears when it comes to tournament football. He's played three won one, I've played 11 won nine".
 

Eni Aluko

I have a real question mark over her claims of racism re: the Ebola statement. Silly joke, maybe, but nothing more.

My (white) family lived in Nigeria for many years. If Ebola had been an issue at the time, I could easily imagine one of us being asked if our family was likely to bring Ebola back with us, not because of our colour but because of where we lived. About 10 years ago, my wife and I were visiting Oz during the foot and mouth outbreak, and we were asked questions based around whether we might be bringing it in. Were the questions racist? No way.

Can't really comment on the other claims, but they seem (if true) to be more valid in a racism claim.
 

Eni Aluko

I have a real question mark over her claims of racism re: the Ebola statement. Silly joke, maybe, but nothing more.

My (white) family lived in Nigeria for many years. If Ebola had been an issue at the time, I could easily imagine one of us being asked if our family was likely to bring Ebola back with us, not because of our colour but because of where we lived. About 10 years ago, my wife and I were visiting Oz during the foot and mouth outbreak, and we were asked questions based around whether we might be bringing it in. Were the questions racist? No way.

Can't really comment on the other claims, but they seem (if true) to be more valid in a racism claim.

They're only racist if you're trying to bring race into it.....unfunny jokes/metaphors yes (and questionable in terms of whether you should use private details like that as I mention above - but not racist).

HOWEVER, and probably most importantly.....the latter allegation sounds like it's total BS anyway!

However, the official report notes that the video evidence, recorded by an FATV cameraman, does not show the manager making any comment of that nature.

“The player in question is in the video, as are three other white players and Mark Sampson,” a 15-page summary of Newton’s final report states. “The sound is clear and there are no references to police cautions or anyone being arrested, let alone a suggestion directly to the player in question that she has been arrested.

“Mark Sampson has no recollection of making the complaint and says he cannot imagine suggesting to a player they have been arrested. You [Aluko] were not present at the meeting and so cannot provide any direct evidence as to what was or what was not said. I do not dispute your account that the player in question was upset about something she thought had been said and conveyed this to you. However, having watched the video and heard the evidence, I do not consider there to be sufficient evidence to uphold this complaint.”

So the thing was videoed......and it's not even in there!

Frankly if I was Sampson I'd sue her for defamation of character and use the video as my evidence.
 

Eni Aluko

D'ya think so?

I'm not qualified to comment myself, but considering she's a f-t professional with Chelsea, was first called into the England camp aged 14, made her full debut at 17 and amassed 120 caps by the time she was 29 (still only 30, btw), also represented GB at the Olympics, I personally would be reluctant to call her "rubbish".

As for what's behind this, I really don't know, but I suspect there may be far more than we're being told, since she's not your stereotypical "thick footballer", sure to be harboring some petty grudge:
"While playing for England during Women's Euro 2005, Aluko took her A levels at Cadbury College, Birmingham. She subsequently went to study Law at Brunel University, where she graduated with a First class degree in 2008"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eniola_Aluko

I believe she's since qualified as a lawyer of some sort, too.

Fat?
 

Eni Aluko

I have a real question mark over her claims of racism re: the Ebola statement. Silly joke, maybe, but nothing more.

My (white) family lived in Nigeria for many years. If Ebola had been an issue at the time, I could easily imagine one of us being asked if our family was likely to bring Ebola back with us, not because of our colour but because of where we lived. About 10 years ago, my wife and I were visiting Oz during the foot and mouth outbreak, and we were asked questions based around whether we might be bringing it in. Were the questions racist? No way.

Can't really comment on the other claims, but they seem (if true) to be more valid in a racism claim.

Seems to be an element of unpopular, opinionated player plays the race card once dropped. Don't see too many other players or ex players having a problem with him, berk that he is or not?
 

Eni Aluko

What I am surprised at is that the FA paid her a large sum of money but didn't make her sign a gagging clause. If what was said was indeed true then he should resign. I can't quite fathom why he thought those comments were remotely appropriate.

I am sure you are aware she has a first class law degree, therefore probably brighter than anyone at the FA by far.
 

Eni Aluko

She was dropped because she was rubbish!

Get over it woman.

As for the comments, yes in poor taste, the FA did their investigation and found nothing to answer, however, the FA paid an amount of money so as it didn't go to a tribunal, you wonder why....

This does nothing whatsoever to enhance your argument.
 

Eni Aluko

This does nothing whatsoever to enhance your argument.

Should he have said "get over it man"? :confused:

I'm not sure what your point is here?
 

Eni Aluko

This does nothing whatsoever to enhance your argument.

................oh dear............

I'm not really worried about whether you agree with me or not. She felt aggrieved about a comment or two. It was investigated. She received a nice sum of money. She still feels aggrieved about it. What did she want? How about not accepting the money and highlighting the issue to a wider audience, she may get some sympathy. Well, from me anyway. :shrug:
 

Eni Aluko

................oh dear............

I'm not really worried about whether you agree with me or not. She felt aggrieved about a comment or two. It was investigated. She received a nice sum of money. She still feels aggrieved about it. What did she want? How about not accepting the money and highlighting the issue to a wider audience, she may get some sympathy. Well, from me anyway. :shrug:

:( Investigated by who? Think she may have been tormented by her conscience about her decision to take the money (in which case she should consider paying it into a charity??). She's right to speak up though, if things are not right. Thought you were staying clear of this kind of thread?
 

Eni Aluko

:( Investigated by who? Think she may have been tormented by her conscience about her decision to take the money (in which case she should consider paying it into a charity??). She's right to speak up though, if things are not right. Thought you were staying clear of this kind of thread?

Investigated by the FA.

She may be right. That's up to her.

Is this a political thread? Racist thread? Homophobic? No, not in my opinion.
 

Eni Aluko

Investigated by the FA.

She may be right. That's up to her.

Is this a political thread? Racist thread? Homophobic? No, not in my opinion.

Precisely. Possible vested interest in siding with the man they appointed? They find in his favour, but still feel the need for a sneaky little pay-off? What a fudge.
 

Eni Aluko

I'm confused....what exactly was racist again.....?
The conversation seems to have gone back to guilty until proven innocent.
 

Eni Aluko

I'm confused....what exactly was racist again.....?
The conversation seems to have gone back to guilty until proven innocent.

Telling her that her family shouldn't come over here if they have ebola. I'm certain he wouldn't have made that comment, even in jest, if she was white. It needs calling out for what it is, racism.
 

Eni Aluko

Telling her that her family shouldn't come over here if they have ebola. I'm certain he wouldn't have made that comment, even in jest, if she was white. It needs calling out for what it is, racism.

Aside from the fact he didn't say they shouldn't come over here.......just "‘Oh,’ he said. ‘Nigeria? Make sure they don’t bring Ebola with them.’"

See Paul's earlier comment:
I have a real question mark over her claims of racism re: the Ebola statement. Silly joke, maybe, but nothing more.

My (white) family lived in Nigeria for many years. If Ebola had been an issue at the time, I could easily imagine one of us being asked if our family was likely to bring Ebola back with us, not because of our colour but because of where we lived. About 10 years ago, my wife and I were visiting Oz during the foot and mouth outbreak, and we were asked questions based around whether we might be bringing it in. Were the questions racist? No way.

Can't really comment on the other claims, but they seem (if true) to be more valid in a racism claim.

Frankly if this is your threshold for "racism" then virtually everyone is a racist. If you're heading to (foreign_place_of_your_choice) and I tell you to get your vaccinations.....it's not racist. I am implying that there are diseases out there (because there are) and you should protect yourself. He simply did the reverse and said make sure they don't bring back a disease known to be prevalent over there. It's a crap joke. It's simply not racist though.
 

Eni Aluko

Aside from the fact he didn't say they shouldn't come over here.......just "‘Oh,’ he said. ‘Nigeria? Make sure they don’t bring Ebola with them.’"

Just to repeat, if she was white he wouldn't have made the comment.
 

Eni Aluko

"I'm certain he wouldn't have made that comment, even in jest, if she was white. It needs calling out for what it is, racism."

it's as simple as that. thanks for clarifying the comment, but the above still stands.

it's rather dismaying to see how this whole discussion is rather missing the point, too. sign of the times, i suppose. argue the minutiae all you want - one of England's best players raised an issue and by mysterious coincidence, started to no longer be selected. that's a worry - little wonder it's become a talking point.
 

Eni Aluko

Just to repeat, if she was white he wouldn't have made the comment.

You can repeat it all you want but it isn't racism :tongue:
Example dictionary definition: "showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another." - FITS NONE OF THAT

UK Law Definition (well a paraphrased one for brevity): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hat-it-is-start-with-the-definition-in-uk-law
"A critique of racism should surely start with a definition of what we think racism is. I for one begin with the legal definition, starting with the 1965 Race Relations Act, which refers to less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins. The Equality Act 2010 has a similar definition." - DOESN'T FIT THAT EITHER

To call it racist, in the nefarious sense of the word (or almost any sense), is simply a stretch too far.

Is it even discrimination in the nefarious sense of the word:
"the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." - NOPE, IT'S CLEARLY JUST, AS EBOLA IS CLEARLY A CONCERN OVER THERE

Now, don't get me wrong, the guy sounds like a bit of a dick, or rather a massive dick, but the particular things cited just aren't racist! They're crap jokes. In poor taste. Arguably poor management. Arguably something an HR department would have justifiable words with him over. In the case of disclosing info about prior arrests....potentially even more serious offences.......but not racist based on what's quoted ;)
 

Eni Aluko

Now, don't get me wrong, the guy sounds like a bit of a dick, or rather a massive dick, but the particular things cited just aren't racist! They're crap jokes. In poor taste. Arguably poor management. Arguably something an HR department would have justifiable words with him over. In the case of disclosing info about prior arrests....potentially even more serious offences.......but not racist based on what's quoted ;)
So, you can't possibly envisage how a comment about someone's Nigerian relatives bringing Ebola into the UK could be construed as having slightly racist undertones - whether intended or not?

I can't understand why people feel that they need to fight every inch of the way for the right to make racially insensitive comments :banghead:

Wouldn't a: "Yes, he's shown a lapse of judgement, but I'd hope he would get the chance to apologise rather than being thrown under the bus" be a better response ... rather than heading immediately to the Oxford English Dictionary to debate the minutiae of what racism is?
 

Eni Aluko

"I'm certain he wouldn't have made that comment, even in jest, if she was white. It needs calling out for what it is, racism."

it's as simple as that. thanks for clarifying the comment, but the above still stands.

it's rather dismaying to see how this whole discussion is rather missing the point, too. sign of the times, i suppose. argue the minutiae all you want - one of England's best players raised an issue and by mysterious coincidence, started to no longer be selected. that's a worry - little wonder it's become a talking point.

I agree it's obvious that these comments would not have been made to a white person, they are racist. Lack of anything in a video is scant evidence. the comments might not have been filmed. The one thing they needed to do was speak to the player involved and they didn't.

And then Eni Aluko was suddenly investigated for having a job and breaking rules resulting in her losing the job she'd been fully open about for five years. Add on the comments and the way she and another mixed race player were treated over their 50th and 100th cap and it all paints a sad picture.

Racism followed by victimisation of someone speaking out followed by a whitewashing investigation. Who'd have thought that could ever happen in the corridors of power at the FA?

It definitely doesn't sound like a selection issue with a disgruntled player.
 

Eni Aluko

You can repeat it all you want but it isn't racism :tongue:
Example dictionary definition: "showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another." - FITS NONE OF THAT

UK Law Definition (well a paraphrased one for brevity): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hat-it-is-start-with-the-definition-in-uk-law
"A critique of racism should surely start with a definition of what we think racism is. I for one begin with the legal definition, starting with the 1965 Race Relations Act, which refers to less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins. The Equality Act 2010 has a similar definition." - DOESN'T FIT THAT EITHER

To call it racist, in the nefarious sense of the word (or almost any sense), is simply a stretch too far.

Is it even discrimination in the nefarious sense of the word:
"the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." - NOPE, IT'S CLEARLY JUST, AS EBOLA IS CLEARLY A CONCERN OVER THERE

Now, don't get me wrong, the guy sounds like a bit of a dick, or rather a massive dick, but the particular things cited just aren't racist! They're crap jokes. In poor taste. Arguably poor management. Arguably something an HR department would have justifiable words with him over. In the case of disclosing info about prior arrests....potentially even more serious offences.......but not racist based on what's quoted ;)

You should try this at your work and let us know how you get on.
 

Eni Aluko

When I was working we had a young Wrst Indian lass working for us who was very pleasant but was forever making mistakes because she could/ would not concentrate.

She was due a formal warning for continuos cock ups however the Manager at the time, in normal conversation, said could she not keep her mind off the beach and instead do her work properly. At the formal warning her Union Rep highlighted this and said it showed the Manager had racial tendencies.

Result was nothing happened to her but instead the Manager received a formal warning!!!!

I decided from that point that the world had gone mad and was extremely careful for the rest of my career

Just shows that in today's world any " throw away " comment can be perceived as racial stereotyping. I would however suggest it's a very one way street as comments expressed to " white" colleagues never seemed an issue

If what was reported was in fact said then rightly or wrongly in today's world I would suggest she has a valid claim
 

Eni Aluko

So, you can't possibly envisage how a comment about someone's Nigerian relatives bringing Ebola into the UK could be construed as having slightly racist undertones - whether intended or not?

I can't understand why people feel that they need to fight every inch of the way for the right to make racially insensitive comments :banghead:

Wouldn't a: "Yes, he's shown a lapse of judgement, but I'd hope he would get the chance to apologise rather than being thrown under the bus" be a better response ... rather than heading immediately to the Oxford English Dictionary to debate the minutiae of what racism is?

Because calling things racist when they're not is counterproductive. Our society is becoming far too oversensitive about everything. It's completely relevant debating what is racism when you're basically saying it is, dressing it up with the phrase "racist undertones".

Let's say we're back in the foot and mouth period in the UK and your relatives are travelling over from an area badly affected (let's say Norwich as I can't remember where was)........
If I said to you "Oh. 'Norwich?' Make sure they don’t bring Foot and Mouth with them" is that racist?
It's clearly not. This is exactly what he did. I just changed the location and relevant prevalent disease.
 

Eni Aluko

How can people claim 100% this was a racist comment?

There were 4 cases in the USA. Would there be the same feeling had he said it to someone who was a white American?

Ebola isn't defined by race, nationality or religion.

I'm sure the truth will come out if this has a totally public independent review or goes to court. I'll wait for the facts before making assumptions though. I think Sampson is a bit of a tit personally but I'm sure it is innocent until proven guilty?

Mind you, the truth would have probably come out years ago had she not chose to take the money and persued this.
 
Last edited:

Eni Aluko

Perhaps I'm a bit old school here but I can't help thinking a lot of people are being over sensitive here and I really get frustrated with those who assume offence on behalf of others - like saying we shouldn't say Christmas Holiday or Christmas party in case we offend whoever.

Personally, in this case, I think playing the racism card was a bit of a cheap shot and only discredits justified claims of racism. I'm sure not everyone will agree with that but two separate investigations have said it wasn't racism and that should be that. Thank you and move on.
 

Eni Aluko

Perhaps I'm a bit old school here but I can't help thinking a lot of people are being over sensitive here and I really get frustrated with those who assume offence on behalf of others - like saying we shouldn't say Christmas Holiday or Christmas party in case we offend whoever.

Personally, in this case, I think playing the racism card was a bit of a cheap shot and only discredits justified claims of racism. I'm sure not everyone will agree with that but two separate investigations have said it wasn't racism and that should be that. Thank you and move on.

Exactly. Now it may turn out he's a horrible racist. It may not. I'm judging purely on the direct quotes and evidence. He sounds like a dick, as I say, but that doesn't mean he should be branded a racist (until it's proven that he actually is).
 

Eni Aluko

Call me new school then - I can't work out why you'd even bother saying something like this knowing that it might cause offence. It's just a bit rude and insulting and the guy should rightly be called out for it.
 

Eni Aluko

Call me new school then - I can't work out why you'd even bother saying something like this knowing that it might cause offence. It's just a bit rude and insulting and the guy should rightly be called out for it.

I don't disagree with that (hence all my earlier comments). However there's a big difference between that and being outright branded a racist for comments that are not racist!
 

Eni Aluko

Perhaps I'm a bit old school here but I can't help thinking a lot of people are being over sensitive here and I really get frustrated with those who assume offence on behalf of others - like saying we shouldn't say Christmas Holiday or Christmas party in case we offend whoever.

Personally, in this case, I think playing the racism card was a bit of a cheap shot and only discredits justified claims of racism. I'm sure not everyone will agree with that but two separate investigations have said it wasn't racism and that should be that. Thank you and move on.

If it was just the racist comments then an investigation followed up by any necessary action then that might work.

It's much more. It's a flawed investigation where they didn't speak to a key witness, then investigating the complainant for breaking rules by having a job she'd been open about for five years resulting in her losing the job. Then she was dropped the week after taking part in a confidential enquiry when she had scored 12 in 16 games iirc. It's also the treatment of black and mixed race players when they get their 50th or 100th caps.

I'm left wondering whether the people saying it's just a couple of comments have read all the guardian article.
 

Eni Aluko

Telling her that her family shouldn't come over here if they have ebola. I'm certain he wouldn't have made that comment, even in jest, if she was white. It needs calling out for what it is, racism.

I think that it's too much of a leap to get to that conclusion, and I disagree with you, 100%. It doesn't seem to be about the fact that she and they were black: it was about the fact that they were from Nigeria. To be honest, the danger is reverse racism - your implication seems to be that as a white person, he is considering her only as a black person, and I think that's probably the wrong way to look at it.
 

Eni Aluko

I think that it's too much of a leap to get to that conclusion, and I disagree with you, 100%. It doesn't seem to be about the fact that she and they were black: it was about the fact that they were from Nigeria. To be honest, the danger is reverse racism - your implication seems to be that as a white person, he is considering her only as a black person, and I think that's probably the wrong way to look at it.

fair enough - we'll never be able to know or test on a white Nigerian here, alas

only 20 cases of Ebola in Nigeria, i'm seeing. whatever else, i can definitely agree with IDBI that it was a crap joke.
 

Eni Aluko

You can repeat it all you want but it isn't racism :tongue:
Example dictionary definition: "showing or feeling discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or believing that a particular race is superior to another." - FITS NONE OF THAT

UK Law Definition (well a paraphrased one for brevity): https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...hat-it-is-start-with-the-definition-in-uk-law
"A critique of racism should surely start with a definition of what we think racism is. I for one begin with the legal definition, starting with the 1965 Race Relations Act, which refers to less favourable treatment on grounds of colour, race, or ethnic or national origins. The Equality Act 2010 has a similar definition." - DOESN'T FIT THAT EITHER

To call it racist, in the nefarious sense of the word (or almost any sense), is simply a stretch too far.

Is it even discrimination in the nefarious sense of the word:
"the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex." - NOPE, IT'S CLEARLY JUST, AS EBOLA IS CLEARLY A CONCERN OVER THERE

Now, don't get me wrong, the guy sounds like a bit of a dick, or rather a massive dick, but the particular things cited just aren't racist! They're crap jokes. In poor taste. Arguably poor management. Arguably something an HR department would have justifiable words with him over. In the case of disclosing info about prior arrests....potentially even more serious offences.......but not racist based on what's quoted ;)

What's muddied the waters rather here is that the dictionary definition of racism is different from the UK legal guidance. "Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race" according to CPS guidance. This guidance allows anyone to see a statement as racist, even if every other individual in the world disagrees, and therefore suggest that the person who made the statement has a case to answer. There's no reasonable/Clapham omnibus test anymore - it's almost strict liability.

I still think rebus is wrong on this one though.
 
Back
Top Bottom