Eni Aluko

Eni Aluko

8corner said:
Who knows?
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has he spoken to white people before? has he said such a thing? :)

i don't think people are being over-sensitive, to hark back to your other one... rather, a load of people waded onto here to deride her, first. and that's a bit off.
 

Eni Aluko

hughbee said:
If it was just the racist comments then an investigation followed up by any necessary action then that might work.

It's much more. It's a flawed investigation where they didn't speak to a key witness, then investigating the complainant for breaking rules by having a job she'd been open about for five years resulting in her losing the job. Then she was dropped the week after taking part in a confidential enquiry when she had scored 12 in 16 games iirc. It's also the treatment of black and mixed race players when they get their 50th or 100th caps.

I'm left wondering whether the people saying it's just a couple of comments have read all the guardian article.
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Hugh: This is conflating two things though.

The rest of the investigation is going to be pretty difficult to comment on, and we're viewing through the lens of the media rather than having all the facts (and the same for the FA actions), no doubt we don't have the full picture.

The conclusion being leapt to is racism.......where in fact the quotes do not appear to be......and instead could it not simply be the case that a manager is dropping a player in his camp who's making accusations at him (rather than because of race) which is totally believable!
Now, whether that's acceptable or not is a different matter but, even if unacceptable, doesn't make him racist as a result.

You could say "well if we don't have the picture you can't say he's not racist or didn't say/do anything racist"...........and that's true......but inoccent until proven guilty and I've not seen evidence of racism quoted (maybe it's out there but nobody's posted it).

As for whatever the FA did - I'd need to reread to see what you're talking about with regards caps.
 

Eni Aluko

Mr Tree said:
simply, cos would he have said to a white person?
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That was the whole point of my first comment relating to when I lived in Nigeria. In short, yes, I believe that he would if they had a family living in Nigeria.
 

Eni Aluko

Mr Tree said:
simply, cos would he have said to a white person?
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That's suggestive not fact though...nobody knows if he would have.

It's a w*nky comment and was about as amusing as a headache. To be honest, I've always found him to be a bit of a pr*ck.

Would there be the same outrage to it being said to an American (they had a few cases)? What if it was said to a white person who was an expat in Nigeria or about someone who has family who were expats there?
Anyway Nigeria was one of the least affected places (only a handful of cases) so you cannot "claim" that is was a national problem there either.

As said, Ebola isn't and wasn't a virus that was or is defined by Race, Nationality, or Religion.

Again though, if she was truly that aggrieved why did she not take the case further? Why accept a monetary payout from the FA? If principle and feeling truly hurt by what was said, why take the pay out?
The FA's investigation doesn't seem to be too clever either.

Neither party smells of roses here.
 
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Eni Aluko

Mr Tree said:
fair enough - we'll never be able to know or test on a white Nigerian here, alas

only 20 cases of Ebola in Nigeria, i'm seeing. whatever else, i can definitely agree with IDBI that it was a crap joke.
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I am however a white Indian (seriously). Why not ask me if I brought typhus with me when I came to the UK? Wouldn't offend me.
 

Eni Aluko

Paul O'Brien said:
I am however a white Indian (seriously). Why not ask me if I brought typhus with me when I came to the UK? Wouldn't offend me.
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alright then - did you?
 

Eni Aluko

Paul O'Brien said:
What's muddied the waters rather here is that the dictionary definition of racism is different from the UK legal guidance. "Any incident/crime which is perceived by the victim or any other person to be motivated by hostility or prejudice based on a person's race or perceived race" according to CPS guidance. This guidance allows anyone to see a statement as racist, even if every other individual in the world disagrees, and therefore suggest that the person who made the statement has a case to answer. There's no reasonable/Clapham omnibus test anymore - it's almost strict liability.

I still think rebus is wrong on this one though.
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Ah but that's not a law....that's guidance. That essentially just enables identification/reporting. Which is fair enough. A case still needs to be proved as to the hostility/prejudice which is where it becomes less wooly and should fail unless there's evidence of some "nastiness" let's say.
 

Eni Aluko

Paul O'Brien said:
That was the whole point of my first comment relating to when I lived in Nigeria. In short, yes, I believe that he would if they had a family living in Nigeria.
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BeeHomeSoon said:
That's suggestive not fact though...nobody knows if he would have.

It's a w*nky comment and was about as amusing as a headache. To be honest, I've always found him to be a bit of a pr*ck.

Would there be the same outrage to it being said to an American (they had a few cases)? Nigeria was one of the least affected places (only a handful of cases) so you cannot "claim" that is was a national problem there either.

As said, Ebola isn't and wasn't a virus that was or is defined by Race, Nationality, or Religion.
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sure - not much to argue with there. but it's understandable that it's a bit of a silly thing to say, too. the issue is bigger than the Ebola comment, so please - i'm really not interested in turning that over and over and over.
 

Eni Aluko

IDontBeeLieveIt said:
Ah but that's not a law....that's guidance. That essentially just enables identification/reporting. Which is fair enough. A case still needs to be proved as to the hostility/prejudice which is where it becomes less wooly and should fail unless there's evidence of some "nastiness" let's say.
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Oh, I don't disagree with you on this. My question then is - who can prove that he was hostile or prejudiced?
 

Eni Aluko

Paul O'Brien said:
Oh, I don't disagree with you on this. My question then is - who can prove that he was hostile or prejudiced?
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They can't based on what I've seen. They couldn't based on what I've read. Therefore shouldn't be branded a racist unless there's something to prove he is. ;)
 

Eni Aluko

Mr Tree said:
sure - not much to argue with there. but it's understandable that it's a bit of a silly thing to say, too. the issue is bigger than the Ebola comment, so please - i'm really not interested in turning that over and over and over.
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I think the victimisation that has "allegedly" followed since her bringing this to the FA's attention is more concerning issue.

Doesn't the UK not have strict laws over whistleblowing protection.
 

Eni Aluko

Mr Tree said:
can you clarify this bit? i've only seen that leapt to by people who then want to argue against it........
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Yes I can:

rebus said:
Telling her that her family shouldn't come over here if they have ebola. I'm certain he wouldn't have made that comment, even in jest, if she was white. It needs calling out for what it is, racism.
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Five of you (at current count) liked that post, and discussion continues after, so I'm not leaping to any conclusions.

The conclusion being leapt to, as I said, is racism (it's called it outright in that post for example with many of you liking it to agree).
 

Eni Aluko

IDontBeeLieveIt said:
Five of you (at current count) liked that post and discussion continues after.
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three days and 30 posts into the discussion. that's quite a slow leap.

quibble with that bit all you want (actually, please don't). the story is about much more than the racism, and as i said in my first post, it's really sad that some people want to just focus on that. we should all be better at having more sensible discussions on such issues by now, but we seem to be getting worse.
 

Eni Aluko

Mr Tree said:
three days and 30 posts into the discussion. that's quite a slow leap.

quibble with that bit all you want (actually, please don't). the story is about much more than the racism, and as i said in my first post, it's really sad that some people want to just focus on that. we should all be better at having more sensible discussions on such issues by now, but we seem to be getting worse.
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It's irrelevant if it's 1000 posts in or at the start. The leaping to conclusions obviously refers to the leap from a position of insufficient evidence to the conclusion of racism.
I'm not sure why you find it sad. I find it sad that people are easily branded racist before being proved to be so. It's a worrying trait in our society people are so quick to demonise others with the most nasty of tags.
Now if he's proved to be a racist then he deserves to be called out on it but not before.
 

Eni Aluko

i literally just said why i find it sad, and that it's about much more than the racism. reply focuses on racism. i'm out :(
 

Eni Aluko

detours said:
I can't understand why people feel that they need to fight every inch of the way for the right to make racially insensitive comments :banghead:
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Exactly. I don't know many white Nigerians. If fact I know of none. He was basically saying the place where her relatives came from was a bit dodgy. He never would have said the same thing to a white person. This is 2017, not 1948. I'm not leaping to any conclusion, it's written in black and white for me to judge accordingly.
 

Eni Aluko

This has all got very silly. Like what he said or not, until Sampson is found guilty of making a racist statement, he didn't make a racist statement. People - including me - may think it's a racist statement, or that it isn't, and that he would or would't have said it to a white person. That's their opinion, nothing more, and shouting longer and louder than anyone else isn't going to make their view right (at present).

So as far as I'm concerned I'm going to drop it.
 

Eni Aluko

Cleared twice but guilty, I totally get it, on second thoughts, not a clue.
 

Eni Aluko

NorthamptonBee said:
Cleared twice but guilty, I totally get it, on second thoughts, not a clue.
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Yep. All rather odd. :scratch:

Personally, I'd prefer an English manager for the England team. :sneakoff:
 

Eni Aluko

Could it be that he and/or the FA have finally been forced to admit that they've been lying and covering things up all along?

It may be that - as often seems to happen - the coverups and mishandling are more of an issue than the original alleged misdemeanours.
 

Eni Aluko

pompeybee said:
Could it be that he and/or the FA have finally been forced to admit that they've been lying and covering things up all along?

It may be that - as often seems to happen - the coverups and mishandling are more of an issue than the original alleged misdemeanours.
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Who knows?

It (the whole story) wasn't going away and showed no signs of doing so...

We will probably never know (or we may just stop caring) :shrug:
 

Eni Aluko

This was always the likely outcome..... Daniel Taylor from the guardian was really gunning for him......hopefully his employment opportunities arent damaged too much in football and he can get another managerial job soon....
 
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Eni Aluko

hanworthbee said:
This was always the likely outcome..... Daniel Taylor from the guardian was really gunning for him......hopefully his employment opportunities arent damaged too much in football and he can get another managerial job soon....
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Are you related to him? What if it turns out that he is just another Welsh racist?

He should be the next Wales manager. :idea:
 

Eni Aluko

hanworthbee said:
This was always the likely outcome..... Daniel Taylor from the guardian was really gunning for him......hopefully his employment opportunities arent damaged too much in football and he can get another managerial job soon....
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Daniel Taylor was right. Sampson sounds as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of sh1t. I hope a few more involved in the cover up get found out.

Aluko lost her job and her England career, she's the one who has suffered along with her team mates, especially the black ones.
 

Eni Aluko

hughbee said:
Daniel Taylor was right. Sampson sounds as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of sh1t. I hope a few more involved in the cover up get found out.

Aluko lost her job and her England career, she's the one who has suffered along with her team mates, especially the black ones.
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What makes you say that?
 

Eni Aluko

Billy Hunt said:
What makes you say that?
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Reading Aluko's story and the comments of a team mate. They add up to nasty victimisation and fear from the team mate. Why do that to Aluko if you've got nothing to hide?
 

Eni Aluko

hughbee said:
Reading Aluko's story and the comments of a team mate. They add up to nasty victimisation and fear from the team mate. Why do that to Aluko if you've got nothing to hide?
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From what you wrote, I thought that some new news had come to light.

I doubt we'll ever get the full story...
 

Eni Aluko

hughbee said:
Reading Aluko's story and the comments of a team mate. They add up to nasty victimisation and fear from the team mate. Why do that to Aluko if you've got nothing to hide?
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It could well be that he's guilty and that something else has been uncovered. But I don't understand your comment. It sounds like he's damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
 

Eni Aluko

Billy Hunt said:
From what you wrote, I thought that some new news had come to light.

I doubt we'll ever get the full story...
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Sadly you're probably right. Aluko has done her team mates a service though.
 

Eni Aluko

Paul O'Brien said:
It could well be that he's guilty and that something else has been uncovered. But I don't understand your comment. It sounds like he's damned if he did and damned if he didn't.
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It was always more than the couple of comments that have been reported. Aluko talks about "discrimination, victimisation and bullying". That might be untrue but if you add that to the victimisation of Aluko and the obvious fear of her team mate then it doesn't look like a pleasant culture.
 

Eni Aluko

Has he been sacked for something that he did in 2014? Or has that been added to the Aluko allegations to give the FA an opportunity to rid themselves of all this bad publicity?

Something doesn't feel right about the FA's stance in all this - covering things up, then magically discovering something from the past when Aluko wouldn't go away like they hoped.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/sep/20/mark-sampson-leave-england-womens-manager
The Guardian said:
FA Chief Executive Martin Glenn... ...insists he was first told of the investigation in October 2015 and read the full report for the first time only last week when someone from outside the FA advised him to do so.
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:suspect: Daniel Taylor, perhaps...
 

Eni Aluko

hughbee said:
Reading Aluko's story and the comments of a team mate. They add up to nasty victimisation and fear from the team mate. Why do that to Aluko if you've got nothing to hide?
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Your logic doesn't hold any water imo.
If he did nothing more than make a few crass jokes then I could absolutely understand everything.
It could just as easily be Aluko being a total dick and making wild assertions with no justification and has been treated like a troublemaker essentially like most managers would in a team.
Frankly we can't possibly know and each time it's been investigate he's been cleared.
It may turn out that he's a nasty racist.
It may turn out that he's a horrible bully.
It may turn out that he's neither of these things.
Branding someone a racist without having a clue if it's true is just as bad as saying racist comments imo.....
 

Eni Aluko

Seems like he's actually been sacked for something he did at Bristol City women a few years ago.....
 

Eni Aluko

hanworthbee said:
Seems like he's actually been sacked for something he did at Bristol City women a few years ago.....
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As usual the cryptic FA comments don't help the situation....sounds like he slept with a player/players or something like that.
 

Eni Aluko

LostBee said:
Has she?

The way her team mates celebrated that goal last night,I would say they are backing Sampson not Aluko.
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It is an almighty mess. Great work by the FA... :rolleyes:
 

Eni Aluko

The FA are pathetic... :no:
 

Eni Aluko

wibs said:
Apparently he had a relationship with a player who was over 18

Im more confused then ever now!
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He was lucky to find one that way inclined. My mates daughter plays at a fairly good level and 8 out of the starting 11 in a recent game preferred ladies according to her.
 

Eni Aluko

Not following the Select Committee, but looking at Twitter it seems a complete car-crash
 

Eni Aluko

They said theyd only pay the 2nd installment for her payment for loss of future earnings if she announced the FA was not institutionally racist

Fair play to her for refusing, how can she even declare it is or isnt
 
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