Excuses Excuses!

[Les Beeavinu]

Very unfair on Poole - he looks a tidy footballer in all the games I've seen him play.

 

[sonofabee]

Lots of players left and new one came in,ones he chose.
Lower league managers need to spot the new Kuffour,Darren Powell etc.

I just think a young talented manager would have been preferable rather than an old manager without much of a cv!!!!!

Andy Scott for me is the perfect foil for TB and I'll bet that he is the one making the recommendations on who to sign.

I know we all crave and demand success but we have no divine right to it and given our circumstances, IMHO to expect promotion at the first time of asking is unreasonable. There are better run clubs with bigger budgets containing better players and teams put together over time by the management. I'm sure that Brentford will get it right or at least move forward in the right direction with the pairing we currently have in charge.

No doubting it's sad that we aren't as good as we'd like but for MK Dons on Saturday, Andrews, Knight and Johnsons wages would probably be greater than the whole of the 11 that started for us. I'd rather we struggled and kept the club afloat and looked to bring in and develop promising youngsters balanced with experienced div 2 players initially as long as changes are implemented over time.

I see no benefit in sacking TB/AS because we've lost one home game and one away game, some people need to have a reality check.

 

[sonofabee]

Very unfair on Poole - he looks a tidy footballer in all the games I've seen him play.

Agreed, he has a very good left food and if played in the right position with right balance around him will do fine at this level.

 

[beeeehive]

Very unfair on Poole - he looks a tidy footballer in all the games I've seen him play.

I'm not so sure about him, he's not very quick and is quite weak, he also looks like he's putting his whole body into it when he tries to kick the ball. A couple of his free-kicks and corners went miles over everyone, although he looks like he can take a decent free-kick in a shooting position.

 

[VTG]

Agree with the above, except for one in the second half which resulted in another corner, the corners were awful. I would definitely put Poole on the left wing though. Do we not have anyone more capable of crossing them in?

 

[mr i page]

i think butcher and scott are ok they need time its bu and creg dyke that dont help they should be on the roof tops shouting out for people to invest in the club for gods sake will some people see that bu is not working we cant do it on are own get richard branson

 

[Edmundo]

Get Richard Branson. That's brilliant! Why did no-one ever think of that before?

 

[Stanley]

We seemed to have caught the "two defeats and the manager is under pressure" bug that pervades the national team and much of the premiership it seems. I really think we have to give it some decent time before we bring out the gallows.

Every manager who is having a difficult time uses the budget excuse from Wenger downwards so why should TB be any different..?

I can understand the built in negativity having seen us win only half a dozen times in the last 18 months but logic says it is far too early too panic.

 

[Paul O'Brien]

AT least TB didn't rely on that old tried and tested 'When Waitrose has Class One eggs in and you can't get to Waitrose, you've a problem' excuse that Mourinho trailed out yet again. How many times have we heard that one, eh???

 

[West Wilts Bee]

i think butcher and scott are ok they need time its bu and creg dyke that dont help they should be on the roof tops shouting out for people to invest in the club for gods sake will some people see that bu is not working we cant do it on are own get richard branson

I agree with you Mr Page. BU is not working, if they (BU) can find a buyer then the best thing they can do is sell. I am a member with a S/O yet I do not have a clue where my money goes. I should go with my feelings and cancel. It is like a secret society, and the longer this goes on the worse i feel about it. Back to the point, how can you blame the managers when we have to borrow half a team. The whole place has become a joke.

 

[lalalalalalalalalaBooker]

AT least TB didn't rely on that old tried and tested 'When Waitrose has Class One eggs in and you can't get to Waitrose, you've a problem' excuse that Mourinho trailed out yet again. How many times have we heard that one, eh???

Our eggs, I'm sure, come from Kwik Save.

 

[Gee Bee]

how can you blame the managers when we have to borrow half a team. The whole place has become a joke.

Have a look at all the clubs in the division and you will see a common thread is the loan system being used by clubs. It is what many clubs are now being dependent on to boost their squads.

 

[wayfarer172]

I agree with you Mr Page. BU is not working, if they (BU) can find a buyer then the best thing they can do is sell. I am a member with a S/O yet I do not have a clue where my money goes. I should go with my feelings and cancel. It is like a secret society, and the longer this goes on the worse i feel about it. Back to the point, how can you blame the managers when we have to borrow half a team. The whole place has become a joke.

Maybe a poll regarding BU should be taken.
Simple enough. BU in or out.

 

[louzer]

Get Richard Branson. That's brilliant! Why did no-one ever think of that before?

I don't fancy going through what the McCanns have had to get him on board

 

[VTG]

Get Richard Branson. That's brilliant! Why did no-one ever think of that before?

Because none of us wants to put up with "Virgin Football" jibes at work?
I wonder if he knows that Griffin Park has the biggest advertising board in... somewhere... and that the planes all fly over it. He should know that bit at least.

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Maybe a poll regarding BU should be taken.
Simple enough. BU in or out.

And I'm sure it would result in "out".

However it completeely misses the point, no-one else appears to actually want to run BFC as a going concern.

You'd find plenty to take on the club if they could sell GP and build houses, but that's not what we want, is it.

 

[wanderer paul]

Basically Mr Benham could call all the shots as he or his company is in this club for £3.5 mill to £4 mill.....................our biggest creditor. I'd love to know his take on the situation regarding running the club and the board. Also management appointments too.

 

[Luton Bee]

You'd find plenty to take on the club if they could sell GP and build houses, but that's not what we want, is it.

Isn't that what BU are trying to do?

 

[abee]

Isn't that what BU are trying to do?

That's what I thought!!!!

 

[Edmundo]

The point is that BU are trying to make sure we get a new stadium in the process, whereas other potential owners may not worry about such minor detail.

 

[beeeehive]

Maybe a poll regarding BU should be taken.
Simple enough. BU in or out.

I imagine if we're fighting relegation come March a lot of people will be wanting them out. A business is better being run by the brain instead of the heart IMO.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I imagine if we're fighting relegation come March a lot of people will be wanting them out. A business is better being run by the brain instead of the heart IMO.

If we are fighting for relegation at the end of the season then BU would have either made their third poor managerial appointment and would be clear evidence that the Supporters Trust model is a failure - both reasons for questioning whether they should be the majority shareholder. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[JTofBFC]

The point is that BU are trying to make sure we get a new stadium in the process, whereas other potential owners may not worry about such minor detail.

..................although other potential owners might make a better fist of that other "minor detail" ...............retaining our Football League status.

Perhaps we should go for a happy medium, ie find a new potential owner who is "Brentford friendly" already. I'm sure Mr Benham could organise something given the opportunity !

 

[Luton Bee]

The point is that BU are trying to make sure we get a new stadium in the process, whereas other potential owners may not worry about such minor detail.

Oh right, so we stick rigidly to the 60% ownership on what a party or parties unknown may or may not do then?

 

[West Ealing Bee]

Isn't that what BU are trying to do?

That's what I thought!!!!

Apologies for not being clear..........

The point is that BU are trying to make sure we get a new stadium in the process

This is what I should have extended my post to.

 

[blunstone]

mr i page said: 'i think butcher and scott are ok they need time its bu and creg dyke that dont help they should be on the roof tops shouting out for people to invest in the club for gods sake will some people see that bu is not working we cant do it on are own get richard branson'

why would anyone, let alone a richard branson, want to put their hard-earned into bfc to be slagged off ? and every chairman for the past thirty years has been slagged off big time. we are a community club with community representatives on the board who, at least, knew what they were letting themselves in for.

 

[letsallgotolourdes]

Investors?

mr i page said: 'i think butcher and scott are ok they need time its bu and creg dyke that dont help they should be on the roof tops shouting out for people to invest in the club for gods sake will some people see that bu is not working we cant do it on are own get richard branson'

why would anyone, let alone a richard branson, want to put their hard-earned into bfc to be slagged off ? and every chairman for the past thirty years has been slagged off big time. we are a community club with community representatives on the board who, at least, knew what they were letting themselves in for.

I understand the frustration of i page and totally agree with his sentiments, apart from "get richard branson", you might as well say get the sultan of oman. I wrote to Mr. Dyke a few weeks ago asking exactly the same thing, i.e. were the club actually putting out any feelers for potential investors, or putting all their faith in BU. I just don't buy this "there's nobody out there willing to invest" excuse, just ask Q.P.haha and as for "people are only interested in investing to sell the ground and put us out of existence", surely that's why we have a board to vet potential investors and put in place certain restrictions. I just feel that certain people's egos in Bees United won't allow them to put their hands up and say, "well we had a go but failed, time to step aside". For God's sake supporters run/owned clubs have never worked in the past, what made people think Bees united would be any different? Doesn't anybody at the club realise you can't build a team on young loanees, all that's going to happen is we'll slide further down the league ladder and this pie in the sky dream of a new stadium, will be further away, we got no support from councils or people that mattered when the new stadium was first mooted, what kind of backing are we going to get when we're kicking our heels at the bottom of League 2 or worse in the conference, Oh and by the way, I never got a reply from Mr. Dyke, a club for the supporters?, don't make me laugh.

 

[abee]

.......Oh and by the way, I never got a reply from Mr. Dyke, a club for the supporters?, don't make me laugh.

Don't feel too badly.

I sent a long email to the Bees United board last December with some comments and they couldn't even be arsed to reply to their largest individual creditor or suggest a meeting to discuss.

If you did get a reply from Dyke then no doubt it would be like the one sent by a nineteen year old abee who having received a terse letter from an irate father which said :-

"My daughter advises me that she is pregnant and I hold you responsible"

My reply was :-

"Thank you for your circular letter..........."

 

[jay1310]

If we are fighting for relegation at the end of the season then BU would have either made their third poor managerial appointment and would be clear evidence that the Supporters Trust model is a failure - both reasons for questioning whether they should be the majority shareholder. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

So did BU as an entity, choose to employ the previous two managers then LB?
The BFC board is made up of 9 non-exec directors, 4 of which are nominated by BU. There is also the MD.
Leroy was appointed prior to the MD, if I recall, so that is 9 people of which only 4 are BU nominated - which chose to employ him.
SF was employed by the 9 plus MD, of which still only 4 are directly nominated by BU.
The only clear evidence that I see, if it was to be a third failure, was that the BFC Board have failed again in the choice of manager - not BU and the Supporters Trust model as you pointed.
I would say that the same people have failed twice let's all hope that it is third time lucky!!!!

 

[abee]

So did BU as an entity, choose to employ the previous two managers then LB?
The BFC board is made up of 9 non-exec directors, 4 of which are nominated by BU. There is also the MD.
Leroy was appointed prior to the MD, if I recall, so that is 9 people of which only 4 are BU nominated - which chose to employ him.
SF was employed by the 9 plus MD, of which still only 4 are directly nominated by BU.
The only clear evidence that I see, if it was to be a third failure, was that the BFC Board have failed again in the choice of manager - not BU and the Supporters Trust model as you pointed.
I would say that the same people have failed twice let's all hope that it is third time lucky!!!!

But Bees United advised us that they put together a "very professional board of directors" at BFC. So if the BFC board has already "failed twice" then when the music stops the parcel with the turd lands slap bang in front of the BU chairman and board. That's the way it works.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

So did BU as an entity, choose to employ the previous two managers then LB?
The BFC board is made up of 9 non-exec directors, 4 of which are nominated by BU. There is also the MD.
Leroy was appointed prior to the MD, if I recall, so that is 9 people of which only 4 are BU nominated - which chose to employ him.
SF was employed by the 9 plus MD, of which still only 4 are directly nominated by BU.
The only clear evidence that I see, if it was to be a third failure, was that the BFC Board have failed again in the choice of manager - not BU and the Supporters Trust model as you pointed.
I would say that the same people have failed twice let's all hope that it is third time lucky!!!!

BU will have failed by not ensuring that they had sufficient control of the football club. They are the majority shareholder and the mistake they will have made is in leaving themselves powerless to influence any of the decision making so yes, ultimately all decisions at the football club are the responsibility of BU - it is their problem if they have allowed themselves to be marginalised.

To me, the situation that you point out is a damning indictment of the Supporters Trust model which purports to give the supporters a greater say in how the club is run - that, imo, is a fallacy.

 

[Stuardo]

Is it just me or is TB using the budget as an excuse.I never heard SC or MA or even WD saying I'm drinking beer and so and so is drinking dom perignon.
We do not and have almost never had a larger budget than the rest of the league (except the SP on our overdraft),So Mr Butcher you knew what you were dealing with when you took the job,stop bloody moaning.You have brought in the players.
GET ON WITH IT!!!!!
OR GET OUT!!!!

well Coppell was given a bit of cash at the time that Noades was "funding" the club by letting us fans pick up the tab later (i.e. now).

MA always used to say that he had a bunch of ragbags and non-leaguers and oh woe is me (despite having a budget larger than Colchester's) - so not sure that is a fair challenge.

but it is probably a fair challenge against Butcher. But when you have Jose complaining that he has injuries so has to play a £30million Ukrainian international who was top goalscorer in Serie A for about 5 years running you realise everyone complains!

 

[Stuardo]

But Bees United advised us that they put together a "very professional board of directors" at BFC. So if the BFC board has already "failed twice" then when the music stops the parcel with the turd lands slap bang in front of the BU chairman and board. That's the way it works.

that is such a quaint view of the world, abee! rofl

 

[Luton Bee]

well Coppell was given a bit of cash at the time that Noades was "funding" the club

I'm not too sure he was given very much, remember Jason Price and why we "lost" him?

 

[jay1310]

For God's sake supporters run/owned clubs have never worked in the past, what made people think Bees united would be any different?

I thought that BU were one of the first to have a majority shareholding of their club so they wouldn't have worked in the past - would they?

What other choice was there?

Don't tell me you want another "invester" like the previous owner of the football club, do you?
I will ask you this - what would happen to QPR if the new owners decided to pull the plug and request all the monies owed to them? Where would they be if that happened???........ I dont think they are supporters of the football club so this could really happen sooner rather than later, given their current league position!!!!

 

[Les Beeavinu]

So did BU as an entity, choose to employ the previous two managers then LB?
The BFC board is made up of 9 non-exec directors, 4 of which are nominated by BU. There is also the MD.
Leroy was appointed prior to the MD, if I recall, so that is 9 people of which only 4 are BU nominated - which chose to employ him.
SF was employed by the 9 plus MD, of which still only 4 are directly nominated by BU.
The only clear evidence that I see, if it was to be a third failure, was that the BFC Board have failed again in the choice of manager - not BU and the Supporters Trust model as you pointed.
I would say that the same people have failed twice let's all hope that it is third time lucky!!!!

I'll also add that I am sick of this kind of attitude that seems prevelant within BU - the one that says that all the bad stuff is somebody else's fault or problem. Anything from the appointment of a manager , the playing budget down to to how hot the tea is "nothing to do with BU". That leads me to ask whether BU is no more than a bloated supporters association and therefore what is its point? I feel sorry for the people who put in their time and effort on behalf of the organisation because they must see so little reward.

When the call came went out for £1m back in 2005 and the supporters responding by chipping in hundreds of thousands, I expected a little more say in how the club is run but I don't see any difference now from any other time in the last 20 years. You could argue that this web site has more influence in shaping BFC matters than the members of BU do.

 

[jay1310]

But Bees United advised us that they put together a "very professional board of directors" at BFC. So if the BFC board has already "failed twice" then when the music stops the parcel with the turd lands slap bang in front of the BU chairman and board. That's the way it works.

Really? I would have thought it was the fault of the people that made the decisions!

Would this still be the case if the BU chairman is not on the board of BFC?

 

[jay1310]

BU will have failed by not ensuring that they had sufficient control of the football club. They are the majority shareholder and the mistake they will have made is in leaving themselves powerless to influence any of the decision making so yes, ultimately all decisions at the football club are the responsibility of BU - it is their problem if they have allowed themselves to be marginalised.

To me, the situation that you point out is a damning indictment of the Supporters Trust model which purports to give the supporters a greater say in how the club is run - that, imo, is a fallacy.

Yes I agree that BU should have a majority representation on the BFC board.
I dont know why they dont - I guess that was part of the discussions to get the investors to invest!
So all the fault goes to BU and not the other directors then?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Yes I agree that BU should have a majority representation on the BFC board.
I dont know why they dont - I guess that was part of the discussions to get the investors to invest!
So all the fault goes to BU and not the other directors then?

BU put the board together. :shrug:

 

[jay1310]

I'll also add that I am sick of this kind of attitude that seems prevelant within BU - the one that says that all the bad stuff is somebody else's fault or problem. Anything from the appointment of a manager , the playing budget down to to how hot the tea is "nothing to do with BU". That leads me to ask whether BU is no more than a bloated supporters association and therefore what is its point? I feel sorry for the people who put in their time and effort on behalf of the organisation because they must see so little reward.

When the call came went out for £1m back in 2005 and the supporters responding by chipping in hundreds of thousands, I expected a little more say in how the club is run but I don't see any difference now from any other time in the last 20 years. You could argue that this web site has more influence in shaping BFC matters than the members of BU do.

Sorry for having an opinion that differs to yours LB.
I am a member of BU nothing else - I am not "within BU"!
I just think that some of the blame should go to others that made the decisions and not just BU.

 

[jay1310]

BU put the board together. :shrug:

So they did.........

I AM a bit slow sorry - so it's BU's fault that no goals have been scored in the last two games then....... and BU's fault for winning the previous two games - how dare they....

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I imagine if we're fighting relegation come March a lot of people will be wanting them out. A business is better being run by the brain instead of the heart IMO.

If we are fighting for relegation at the end of the season then BU would have either made their third poor managerial appointment and would be clear evidence that the Supporters Trust model is a failure - both reasons for questioning whether they should be the majority shareholder. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

So they did.........

I AM a bit slow sorry - so it's BU's fault that no goals have been scored in the last two games then....... and BU's fault for winning the previous two games - how dare they....

:scratch:

 

[Brentford_till_die]

This football clubbed needs to be run by people who know what they are doing, and not here because of their love for Brentford F.C. One reason why if I had enough money I wouldn’t invest or take over Brentford FC. I Don’t know what im doing exactly same as half those donkeys on the Board.

 

[Brentford_till_die]

I'm not too sure he was given very much, remember Jason Price and why we "lost" him?

And when he left our season was over
All down hill from the day he left

 

[SpiderBee]

It would appear the the atmosphere and positivity on here and at GP towers is as

FLAT AS A KIPPER'S DICK

 

[West Ealing Bee]

And when he left our season was over
All down hill from the day he left

Crikey.

I'm glad you don't write history books

Price left in October/November, we signed Sidwell for the rest of the season as his replacement and were also boosted by a fit Rowlands. That's Steve Sidwell, Premiership footballer, man who would be on the verge of the England squad if he hadn't chased the money at Chelsea and Rowlands who has played in the Championship for the last four-five years. Jason Price played half a season in the second tier for Hull, who would you rather have :shrug:

It should also be pointed out Price played the last month or so of his time at Brentford at right back

If you are going to try and make a point, at least make a sensible one.

 

[Gee Bee]

I understand the frustration of i page and totally agree with his sentiments, apart from "get richard branson", you might as well say get the sultan of oman. I wrote to Mr. Dyke a few weeks ago asking exactly the same thing, i.e. were the club actually putting out any feelers for potential investors, or putting all their faith in BU.

So how did Mr Benham's investment come about or does he not count as a investor. I've no idea how wealthy he is but he has so far put in about £4m, if we were to find someone to put in £8m and pay off all the current investors loans. Would we better off or still in debt to £8m?

I think what you are looking for is a sugar daddy. I'll think you'll find out that even Abramovich will not turn out to be one of them.

 

[abee]

Really? I would have thought it was the fault of the people that made the decisions!

Would this still be the case if the BU chairman is not on the board of BFC?

Absolutely. The holding company board lays down the ground rules under which its subsidiary operates and the subsidiary then advises on how it will deliver the expectations of the owners and here is the budget and cash flow forecasts to support our understanding of what you (the holding company board) demand of us. If the holding company board doesn't like what is going on at the board of their subsidiary then they fire the subsidiary board.....if they don't then the problem belongs to them. That's how it works.

 

[sussexb]

Crikey.

I'm glad you don't write history books

Price left in October/November, we signed Sidwell for the rest of the season as his replacement and were also boosted by a fit Rowlands. That's Steve Sidwell, Premiership footballer, man who would be on the verge of the England squad if he hadn't chased the money at Chelsea and Rowlands who has played in the Championship for the last four-five years. Jason Price played half a season in the second tier for Hull, who would you rather have :shrug:

It should also be pointed out Price played the last month or so of his time at Brentford at right back

If you are going to try and make a point, at least make a sensible one.

"Our season was over" might be a bit strong, but he's definitely got a point. Price went on to score a lot of goals the rest of that season, and the season after as I remember - and more importantly he was making a big difference to our side and our play (cf. the away game against Reading).

When he left, under those circumstances it was a blow not only to the side on the pitch and their potential performances, it also sent a message (internal and external) about our ambitions and the way the club was being run. Not only to the fans, but to Coppell, the players etc.

Price not staying made a big difference.

 

[Gee Bee]

When he left, under those circumstances it was a blow not only to the side on the pitch and their potential performances, it also sent a message (internal and external) about our ambitions and the way the club was being run. Not only to the fans, but to Coppell, the players etc.

Price not staying made a big difference.

We missed out on automatic promotion by 11 minutes. If he had stayed Sidwell might not have come. Who would have been the greater loss?