Fans' Forum - Reports

[Paul USA]

It's 11.55pm in London and still nothing posted about the goings on tonight.

Can constructive commumication be going on so long nobody is yet back home to post ??

 

[Stuardo]

i second that. some of us at work need to be told what goes on in the outside world.

 

[Banana]

Waste of time.

Joe Bourke fillibusted his way through the forum by boring everyone to death. As one of my ex Chairman said "You ask him the time and he tells you how to make a watch"

 

[Paul USA]

Probably David Heath treating everybody to Prawn Sarnies and handing out replica ties that is causing the delay

 

[Paul USA]

Bannana - And you let him get away with that ??

Who chaired the meeting ?

 

[The H]

dunno, but the strap is the last of your worries....

 

[Banana]

Anyway I'm sure you'll be reading Winston Bee's thoughts on it soon.

Credit to Gee Bee for asking the "killer question"

 

[Banana]

Bannana - And you let him get away with that ??

I think it was a case of "you had to be there"

By the time Joe had spent 30 minutes answering 2 questions most of the audience had lost the will to live, and were interrupting to ask why we were wearing black away from home again.

 

[Simon T]

Waste of time.

Joe Bourke fillibusted his way through the forum by boring everyone to death. As one of my ex Chairman said "You ask him the time and he tells you how to make a watch"

Did anybody offer to donate some "For Sale" boards to the club - if it's no change and the same business strategy as before we'll be needing some outside Griffin Park sooner rather than later

 

[Stuardo]

should have guillotined him then....

 

[Banana]

should have guillotined him then....

That's the Chairman's job (see other thread)

 

[rambo]

No real benefit in holding this then, is that what you are all saying!

 

[Banana]

Who chaired the meeting ?

Good question.

It seemed to be Brian Burgess using a proxy.

 

[Nurse Betty]

Same old, same old, I'm afraid.

No, really. I can't honestly say there was anything new discussed.

Joe Bourke said we would break even after interest in two years time.

Greg Dyke says the stadium is the way forward and showed us a picture of what Lionel Road could look like.

Eddie Rogers said Doug White had brought a lot of money into the Club.

Ability to sell tickets online in 10 days time (someone told me this but I don't remember hearing it - but there weren't any mics so I did miss some things). Licence to operate ticketing system costs us £1400 a month (is that right? It sounds extraordinary).

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Ability to sell tickets online in 10 days time (someone told me this but I don't remember hearing it - but there weren't any mics so I did miss some things). Licence to operate ticketing system costs us £1400 a month (is that right? It sounds extraordinary).

Yes it is. Very extraordinary. That can't be right, surely?

 

[abee]

Eddie Rogers said Doug White had brought a lot of money into the Club.

Was this in response to a question or just a continuing part of Rogers and Hertings quest to get White back on board???

We all know that "He's coming back Part Deux" so they may as well get it over with stick him on the Stadium Action Committee and then slide him smoothly back onto the main BFC board without him coughing up a cent. You know just like last time.......

White's problem of course is that if Lionel Road is still the preferred option for BFC then he has already told the local papers (and anyone else who bothers to listen or read what he has to say anymore) that Lionel Road is a "dead duck" but I expect we will be advised that :

1) this never happened anyway

and

2) even if it did then he said it 'cos he was under the enormous strain of his wife keep picking up the phone and listening to abusive telephone call or calls and the subsequent police investigation failed to er.........apprehend the perps amongst the moronic Brentford fans.........yeah right.

 

[abee]

Credit to Gee Bee for asking the "killer question"

I assume that this was:

"Why on earth does anyone bother with these Fans Forums anymore and how in the name of God does the BFC board get away with it as surely they constitute "Cruel and Unusual Punishment"............

..........or something like that.........

 

[Banana]

Some points from the Forum

• Paul Smith has now made 18 appearances for Southampton. We get £100k if he plays 20. When asked if FA Cup and/or League Cup apperances count he replied that "everything counts".
• The "extras" on the Campbell money for appearances and goals get paid whether or not Birmingham get relegated. However only goals and apperances in the Premier League are counted. Not sure whether or not FA Cup games are counted (or for that matter (say) Champions League and/or UEFA Cup). If Birmingham get relegated and promoted back to the Premiership then goals and apperances still count. If DJ makes 10 apperances this season and Birmingham get relegated we still get £100k
• We will have the ability to book tickets online in 10 days according to our CEO
• There were two nice new paintings of what Lionel Road would look like that were briefly flashed before our eyes. No-one told us why these existed and where they came from.
• Eddie Rogers stated that the council had indicated that they would use Compulsory Purchase rights to secure Lionel Road for the club. ER is sceptical about whether LR will happen or not though.
• John Herting said that White had brought in £50,000(?) in cash to the club. So not the £3.4m as he had claimed.
• Dyke and Finch had their comments misquoted by Charlton about the stewarding
• Gee Bee asked Finch about his "easily achieveable" comment that he made earlier in the season about getting the commercial income budgetted. Finch said that "easily" was not a word he should have used.

 

[stedders]

Roughly how many there? ie: was it "standing room" only?

 

[abee]

Eddie Rogers stated that the council had indicated that they would use Compulsory Purchase rights to secure Lionel Road for the club. ER is about whether LR will happen or not though.[/B

Gee Bee asked Finch about his "easily achieveable" comment that he made earlier in the season about getting the commercial income budgetted. Finch said that "easily" was not a word he should have used.

Sorry. I don't follow the Rogers comment.........are you saying that he agrees with his mate Doug White that Lionel Road will never happen and is a "dead duck".

I take it then that Finch should also not have used the word "easily" in his comments brought to us all on p9 of a programme last year that a new stadium was "easily attainable" and furthermore..........lol

 

[Banana]

Sorry. I don't follow the Rogers comment.........are you saying that he agrees with his mate Doug White that Lionel Road will never happen and is a "dead duck".

Sorry, missed out a vital word - original post had been updated

He was "sceptical" about whether Lionel Road could be delivered. Expanding on that it was stated that LR would not be gifted to us and BB also stated that it would have to be delivered at zero cost to BFC.

 

[Banana]

One to add to the list

• Promotion would be worth £1,000,000 but would come with £500,000 costs. No-one expanded on what the costs of promotion are. I presume it is bonuses

 

[Nurse Betty]

Just remembered that someone asked whether the staff who had been hired and added to the wage bill were at least bringing in enough money to cover their salaries or perhaps making some profit for BFC. Answer was unclear to me.

 

[Old B]

Everything was unclear to me - couldnt hear half the questions and most of the responses were even quieter, in future the Panel definitely need a microphone and someone chairing the meeting needs to repeat the question so that everyone in the room can hear it.

Had a chat with Ian Jones and IMHO quite impressed with what he may bring to the party. Time will tell.

 

[Ace Face]

Here is my take on last night.

Jo announced some pretty shocking stats about our income and playing staff wages. The simple truth is that once again the club are gambling with our clubs future by allocating at least £500k more to the playing budget than we can posasibly afford.

Expect little profit from the Princess Royal and the club shop will have to pay pack the huge capital investment within the 5yr lease.

Ground improvements will only happen if BFC can find sponsorship from the middle east and some others cough up with sponsorship. Little tangible progress to report. Best to forget ground improvements I think.

Lionel Road seems to be still our aspiration, but I am less than convinced after seeiung the visual of the site and the enabling development being two massive towers taller than the new Glaxo Headquarters. I think this tells us that the site is not big enough for the enabling development to fund the stadium build.

Greg Dyke said that BFC had to breakeven as soon as possible and certainly within the next budget year.

I asked the question amongst others:
"Jo you stated earlier that after the Soton debacle the BFC Board identified that the backroom operation needed to be strengthened with a ticketing system, CEO and Commercial Manager. This was going to cost the business £1OOK per annum. Can you please tell me as part of the business plan for this operational cost increase, what was the perceived business benefits and have they been delivered?

Answer - " We have a new ticketing system and a better customer experience"

So basically we are spending £100k per year on a CEO and support and have got no business benefits in return. Just remember that as you put your quids in the bucket.

Summing up and this is no criticism of the new BFC Board. BFC has absolutely no future and all we are doing is simply fighting administration.

 

[Loud and Proud]

Also remember Dyke wanting to wrap things up very quickly

Treading on issues he perhaps didn't want to discuss

 

[abee]

One to add to the list

• Promotion would be worth £1,000,000 but would come with £500,000 costs. No-one expanded on what the costs of promotion are. I presume it is bonuses

:bound: :bound: :bound:

My cup runneth over.

So we start off with a what........core loss of in excess of £1million.........deduct the net £500k profit that we will make in the Championship and that gives us an annual core loss of £500k in the
Championship.

Eureka............we're saved.

I'm gonna dig out my notes on the crap that I was being fed when Bees United wanted my monies...........

 

[Simon C]

One to add to the list

• Promotion would be worth £1,000,000 but would come with £500,000 costs. No-one expanded on what the costs of promotion are. I presume it is bonuses

23k to the FL for parachute payments according to the Chron. No idea about the rest.

 

[Gee Bee]

One thing that I couldn't get back in to ask, was a follow up to the announcement by Mr Finch that he and Brian had just got back from Qatar as they continue to tie down the sponsorship deal along with another club fan, who I'm sure he said was still out there.
Who is this fan? Could it be DW?

 

[abee]

Greg Dyke said that BFC had to breakeven as soon as possible and certainly within the next budget year.

Not so fast O Slippery One. I have just read on this thread that when asked the "break even" question Greg Dyke was kicking a longwinded Joe Bourke under the table and prompting him to reply "two years". Erm...... that means in anyones language that we will not consistantly be running at break even after interest until the monthly management accounts for March 2008.

The next budget year is 2006-7. How are we supposed to reconcile these two statements.....or not.........

Oh wait.........I've got it now........breaking even is "easily achievable" under our dynamic CEO who is the long term future of Brentford Football Club and Finch's continuing executive management is why Eddie Rogers is so confident....... (continues for 163 pages on how fantastic Andy Finch is and furthermore...........)

 

[Brickie Chap]

One thing that I couldn't get back in to ask, was a follow up to the announcement by Mr Finch that he and Brian had just got back from Qatar as they continue to tie down the sponsorship deal along with another club fan, who I'm sure he said was still out there.
Who is this fan? Could it be DW?

Highly unlikely. Probably the chap largely behind us winning the first deal

 

[Gee Bee]

Highly unlikely. Probably the chap largely behind us winning the first deal

Fair enough.

 

[Ace Face]

I have to say, I came away gutted and I don`t think Finch will be losing any sleep like us fans who want the club to survive and move forward.

The playing budget will be slashed, but for fecks sake everybody who is not adding value to the business at BFC needs to go - surely the administrator would do this anyway.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

It's always the things that affect the fans most that are the easy targets. Lose players, raise prices etc both of which will result in reduced income and thus we head on the usual downward spiral so familiar to Brentford fans. So I want to be assured, before we head down that route, that every avenue has been expoited in both reducing the cost overhead and generating further income.

It looks like the Martin Allen experience will be a memory that we'll all look back on and say "Remember when Martin was doing that at our club?" I had thought that we were finally moving forward but no, the last few years have well and truly fecked us up.

Same old Brentford. My grandad, God rest him, was right.

 

[Luton Bee]

Meet the news boss, same as the old boss!

 

[shaggy]

Not so fast O Slippery One. I have just read on this thread that when asked the "break even" question Greg Dyke was kicking a longwinded Joe Bourke under the table and prompting him to reply "two years". Erm...... that means in anyones language that we will not consistantly be running at break even after interest until the monthly management accounts for March 2008.

The next budget year is 2006-7. How are we supposed to reconcile these two statements.....or not.........

Oh wait.........I've got it now........breaking even is "easily achievable" under our dynamic CEO who is the long term future of Brentford Football Club and Finch's continuing executive management is why Eddie Rogers is so confident....... (continues for 163 pages on how fantastic Andy Finch is and furthermore...........)

When I asked about when we would achieve break even after interest Joe started on about judgement calls about revenues etc, so I asked when, based on the judgement of the board, would we achieve it. Joe was about to start off again and Greg cut him off saying something like "Well the answer to that has to be pretty simple hasn't it? {looking at BB} we committed to break even two years after the exercise of the option." I can't swear it was exactly those words but basically he was saying that whatever we said to the banks in the business case was still the plan. BB agreed. I then said "So you have a plan to achieve this?" to which Joe said "Its being worked on".

I'm a little torn as to how to take that. On one hand I am surprised that BU didn't have quite a detailed plan on how to achieve it in order to exercise the option at all (they had all the info available so why not?). On the other (here's the optimistic view) the board are imminently to make all sorts of hard decisions (which we desperately need to) and but weren't in a position to announce them publicly yet. Fingers crossed.

As an aside (and this will no doubt irritate most of you) I thought that AF performed the best out of the panel. Joe talked most but it was too much detail to be of interest, all the others gave arm-waves/strategic waffle, and AF was the only one close enough to the day-to-day to answer with any real facts. That doesn't mean he's the best thing since sliced bread, but just reporting my view from the evening's performance. {where's the "shaggy ducks for cover" smilie?}

Oh yeah, and next time they should have PG to compere (spelling?) and have a microphone.

 

[Banana]

Oh, something else I just remembered: the £250,000 Altonwood loan.

Someone asked whether Noades would give notice on this is we got promoted or sold a player like Campbell or had an FA Cup run. Bourke said that Noades had agreed not to give notice on it unless we had an exceptional circumstance like promotion. Rogers then said that he had spoken to Noades about this and they have an (informal) agreement that Noades would not give notice at all. That's how it seemed to me although I'm not sure I understood the answers exactly.

 

[Simon C]

Oh, something else I just remembered: the £250,000 Altonwood loan.

Someone asked whether Noades would give notice on this is we got promoted or sold a player like Campbell or had an FA Cup run. Bourke said that Noades had agreed not to give notice on it unless we had an exceptional circumstance like promotion. Rogers then said that he had spoken to Noades about this and they have an (informal) agreement that Noades would not give notice at all. That's how it seemed to me although I'm not sure I understood the answers exactly.

Jeez, what's the point in spending all this extra on a promotion squad if we're not getting that much and Ron wants his cut too?

 

[Nick Hester]

I went along expecting to come away with a warm feeling and a sense of unity between the Board and Fans.

I came away possibily feeling more disillusioned than ever before.

I felt that two of the people sitting on the top table were pi$$ed, another one slouched back in his chair yawning all night and seemingly wanting to argue with anyone who asked a question, and another who looked at supporters with distain if they ever said a bad word against Doug White.
I may be wrong, but this was my impression.

Brian Burgess as usual tried to hold it together and I'm personally glad that David Heath and Ian Jones were not on that table and being cast in the same light as I have written above.

I asked a question abut the predicted £500k loss and after twenty minutes was none wiser than when I first asked the point. If thats how a finance man presents figures to people who understand things then God help us.

I was taping the evening for an article in the next fanzine but turned this off after half an hour, I wouldn't expect people to pay to read this tripe.

The Chairman tried to hurry up things and didn't really give me a positive impression I was overly dissapointed in him. I understand that they had been in a Board meeting for five hours but they could have at least hid the fact that they didn't want to be there.

Do I think that this board (Heath, Emalluson or whatever his name is, Jones not included as they were not answering questions) can take the Club forward? - I'll give them 6 months to decide.

It did again show however that there were a couple of supporters who could read behind things being said..Alison Franklin I have never met but would applaud her passion and knowledge as I did for a couple of other 'Intelligent' people (Shaggy who clearly understood the financials better than the panel) who asked valid questions.

I think the whole night was a massive PR blunder and a complete waste of time.

Yes, I feel as strongly as that..
ABee you've done your £250k mate....

 

[abee]

When I asked about when we would achieve break even after interest Joe started on about judgement calls about revenues etc, so I asked when, based on the judgement of the board, would we achieve it. Joe was about to start off again and Greg cut him off saying something like "Well the answer to that has to be pretty simple hasn't it? {looking at BB} we committed to break even two years after the exercise of the option." I can't swear it was exactly those words but basically he was saying that whatever we said to the banks in the business case was still the plan. BB agreed. I then said "So you have a plan to achieve this?" to which Joe said "Its being worked on".

I'm a little torn as to how to take that. On one hand I am surprised that BU didn't have quite a detailed plan on how to achieve it in order to exercise the option at all (they had all the info available so why not?). On the other (here's the optimistic view) the board are imminently to make all sorts of hard decisions (which we desperately need to) and but weren't in a position to announce them publicly yet. Fingers crossed.

As an aside (and this will no doubt irritate most of you) I thought that AF performed the best out of the panel. Joe talked most but it was too much detail to be of interest, all the others gave arm-waves/strategic waffle, and AF was the only one close enough to the day-to-day to answer with any real facts. That doesn't mean he's the best thing since sliced bread, but just reporting my view from the evening's performance. {where's the "shaggy ducks for cover" smilie?}

Oh yeah, and next time they should have PG to compere (spelling?) and have a microphone.

Thanks for that David. I did suggest to you that you got the business plan and BFC management accounts from Bees United well before the "hustings" and then I would be able to debate with you in depth. I take it that either you didn't or they refused but how Bees United could expect you and Chris Wickham to stand for a directors slot for a business where you have no knowledge of the financial situation is absolutely beyond me. The problem is that people treat it as an emotional thing and it's not.........it's business and with the same responsibilites as if you were a director of any company.
As you are probably aware I had absolutely no interest in going onto the BFC board........if I had wanted to I would have been a director on January 20 and don't let anyone kid you that Bees United was "strengthening the board" when they exercised the option........they weren't although by chance it seems to have worked out that way. It was just the guys who wrote out cheques for £200k or more who finished up on the board together with Greg Dyke by invitation but who did not personally meet the minimum loan requirement demanded for others.
David Heath for quite some time did not accept my invitation to be my nominee and it got to the stage whereby it looked as if my slot (if you like) was gonna go by default. Indeed at one time it was removed from the proposed board structure and it was only after I spoke with Brian Burgess that it went back in.......my position was that I was entitled to one slot on the board and I was free to exercise it or not.......my cheque couldn't just be banked and my slot removed because I hadn't filled it. David then (after a lot of reflection) accepted to be my nominee. (N.B. I am not his "master" at Griffin Park as Larry Signy so spitefully and untruthfully posted on this website the other day........David votes and acts as he deems to be in the best interests of Brentford Football Club and that was my only requirement. I can think of no better fan/businessman to be on the BFC board than David Heath).

If Bees United would not provide you with the up to date BFC management accounts at the time of your application then that is simply appalling. Every vetted applicant for the supporter/director slot should have them.........you would not I submit be willing to be a director of any other business without doing your homework so why should BU expect supporters to do so.

 

[Brickie Chap]

Oh, something else I just remembered: the £250,000 Altonwood loan.

Someone asked whether Noades would give notice on this is we got promoted or sold a player like Campbell or had an FA Cup run. Bourke said that Noades had agreed not to give notice on it unless we had an exceptional circumstance like promotion. Rogers then said that he had spoken to Noades about this and they have an (informal) agreement that Noades would not give notice at all. That's how it seemed to me although I'm not sure I understood the answers exactly.

Given Rogers is a ****, why should we trust him?

 

[Baffled]

What bothered me was Rogers great defence - and promotion - of Arfur Daley. 'He brought money into the club, a hard worker, etc'. I also recalled that only a few months ago he was singing much the same praises of behalf of Roy King.

Might there not be a hidden agenda in the case of Arfur? I recall that before BU wrapped up the takeover deal, Rogers, Herting and Arfur were all set to shaft BU and everyone else with their own private deal to buy BFC. I got the impression that that same deal might still be sitting in Rogers' pending file.

There is also the possibility that Rogers' great mate, Noades, may be in the background...

 

[abee]

abee you've done your £250k mate....

Oh well.........it was fun for a month or so.........lol

 

[Nick Hester]

Oh well.........it was fun for a month or so.........lol

Looks like it was spent on wine in the Board meeting mate....

 

[Brickie Chap]

Bang goes the hopes we all had for a better make of tie...

 

[Baffled]

The Chairman tried to hurry up things and didn't really give me a positive impression. I was overly dissapointed in him.

Disagree with you there, Greenholme. I thought Greg Dyke, a veteran of many such meetings, neatly and politely cut off Joe Bourke in full flow several times. He nipped in when Joe paused for the odd breath and got different questions going.

He also moved the meeting along fairly speedily. We'd have been there still if not!

 

[Banana]

He also did the old trick of "3 more questions and that's it" and closed the meeting at 9:30. Perhaps next time we could do what BIAS did when they chaired the meeting and that is have some agenda items rather than zoom from subject to subject. Certainly Bourke should learn to answer the question rather than drone on and on and on and on - and I was interested it what he had to say, God knows what those that had come along to ask why we still wear the White strip away from home were thinking at that stage.

And next time - microphones PLEASE!

 

[Ace Face]

I think the biggest problem us mere fans have is that the BFC Board are not going to give the fans a finance handout - albeit simplified - because we can refer to it when the losses are £500k worse than forecast.

I was not impressed with Greg Dyke and he gave no fine detail as to how the BFC Board were working to achieve, short term stability. It seems it is same old same old, all calculated risks on promotion and player sales. Are the BFC Board therefore saying that we will never reach a stage, where promotion and player sales are profit for the business?

Why are we paying £17k per annum for a ticketing system license? I bloody hope this includes full hardware and software support and even provision of the initial new hardware needed.

I just wish I could show you these sky scrapers proposed for Lionel Road.

 

[Nick Hester]

He nipped in when Joe paused for the odd breath and got different questions going.

Maybe leaving him to gasp may have done us a favour!

 

[shaggy]

Thanks for that David. I did suggest to you that you got the business plan and BFC management accounts from Bees United well before the "hustings" and then I would be able to debate with you in depth. I take it that either you didn't or they refused ...

I did ask (for those and other things), and it wasn't provided. It was never "refused" formally, it just never came. In some ways I have some sympathy for them - they'd have to give it to all candidates, and do they really want confidential information in the hands of a number of people who will not be successful? It does put the onus on the electorate to judge accordingly, which I guess they've done. So far so good with Mr G - he seems to be communicating rather well. At the end of the day though I will judge him (along with the rest of the board) on a pretty simple criteria - how soon can they get us to break even after interest (in a sustainable way)?

If they haven't got a plan now then they need to generate one pretty damn quick. IMHO they should have pretty drastic plans for three basic scenario - promotion, failed play-offs, and not reaching the play-offs. Between now and the end of the season there should be all sorts of things that can be done without significantlly impacting the playing staff (which would be short-sighted for the want of a couple of months salaries), but the plans should be totally in place so the day after we know which scenario we are in, we act. It won't be pleasant, and I'm sure a lot of fans will be unhappy, but those tough decisions have got to be made.