James Tarkowski -

[beebopalula]

IMO if Warbs is concerned about our ball retention then he may well reintroduce Tarks as having Tarks is almost like having a another deep lying mid player in the side in terms of passing and some of his passing into mid to the feet of players is excellent and at a different level to Craig and Dean. Personally I don't buy the left sided defender thing. Either you can defend well as a central defender or you can't and either you can distribute the ball well or you can't. I wasn't there yesterday but it seems Craig wasn't that good. Craig also struggled vs Wolves and occasionally he got bullied . Warbs has a real issue now. If he's true to his word then Craig may get benched. Dean and Tarks would also give us a very strong centre in physical terms and Tarks would undoubtedly add to our threat [] at corners.
I like Craig but performances are the thing not sentiment.

 

[sonofabee]

IMO if Warbs is concerned about our ball retention then he may well reintroduce Tarks as having Tarks is almost like having a another deep lying mid player in the side in terms of passing and some of his passing into mid to the feet of players is excellent and at a different level to Craig and Dean. Personally I don't buy the left sided defender thing. Either you can defend well as a central defender or you can't and either you can distribute the ball well or you can't. I wasn't there yesterday but it seems Craig wasn't that good. Craig also struggled vs Wolves and occasionally he got bullied . Warbs has a real issue now. If he's true to his word then Craig may get benched. Dean and Tarks would also give us a very strong centre in physical terms and Tarks would undoubtedly add to our threat [] at corners.
I like Craig but performances are the thing not sentiment.

Spot on, it's not about the right, left side combo for me, it's whether JT and Tarks can communicate and quickly form a real partnership where each knows what's needed that TC seems to have mastered.
His issue is the spirit is willing and he compensates for his lack of physical presence with his reading of the game but with better, stronger players he will be found out on occasions.
That's not a call to drop him, it's more a case of understanding which is the better option and I think it will continue to change regularly.

 

[beebopalula]

Spot on, it's not about the right, left side combo for me, it's whether JT and Tarks can communicate and quickly form a real partnership where each knows what's needed that TC seems to have mastered.
His issue is the spirit is willing and he compensates for his lack of physical presence with his reading of the game but with better, stronger players he will be found out on occasions.
That's not a call to drop him, it's more a case of understanding which is the better option and I think it will continue to change regularly.

TBH there's only one way to find out isn't there? You have to give Dean and Tarks a chance. If it doesn't work out it will clarify the position rather well, indicate who is likely to go and what we need to bring in..

 

[shouldbee]

Warbs says every week "it's a squad game". You don't change a winning side, so this is an opportunity to rotate. The defence was under par yesterday so let's put our BEST defender back in the team..............

 

[grepo]

Agreed.

Warbs says every week "it's a squad game". You don't change a winning side, so this is an opportunity to rotate. The defence was under par yesterday so let's put our BEST defender back in the team..............

 

[JTofBFC]

I'd be inclined to include JT sooner rather than later and no way would I consider leaving Harlee out based on recent performances.
I wait to be accused of leading the TC out campaign by some coward of the keyboard.

I assume this latest jibe is aimed at me again as you have used the same word you used in your sanctimonious PM to me last night reminding me that I was wrong.

Clearly you aren't calling for Craig to be dropped and I have presumably misquoted you again so I have left what you said above verbatim. Maybe you are advocating playing 3 centre backs !

You accuse me of having personal digs at you, yet on 3 separate occasions (including in the said PM ) you have told me to grow up, have also referred to me as " a bit of a div" and "being a bit silly" as well as bizzarely apparantly cowardly for daring to question your opinion.

Its fairly clear rankism is what floats your boat and you seems to think you are the king of the put down. I know from the tone of many of your posts that you have a very high opinion of yourself and I will know better than to disagree in future.

For what its worth, getting to the topic of this thread, I think that our defence has been very solid for November and whilst I don't disagree that Tarkowski is a fine player and that Harlee Dean has been playing exceptionally well recently , in my opinion we get the best out of either player when they are alongside Craig who as well as providing better balance because of the left/right argument, also marshals the defence well . The stats for the various pairings are seemingly fairly conclusive evidence of this but nevertheless Craig is now on 4 bookings so is close to a suspension and if the Tarkowski/Dean pairing performs when that occurs then just like last time he will have to bide his time to get back in just as Tarkowski has lately. Calls to leave him out now are however IMHO harsh and premature.

 

[stanner]

I assume this latest jibe is aimed at me again as you have used the same word you used in your sanctimonious PM to me last night reminding me that I was wrong.

Clearly you aren't calling for Craig to be dropped and I have presumably misquoted you again so I have left what you said above verbatim. Maybe you are advocating playing 3 centre backs !

You accuse me of having personal digs at you, yet on 3 separate occasions (including in the said PM ) you have told me to grow up, have also referred to me as " a bit of a div" and "being a bit silly" as well as bizzarely apparantly cowardly for daring to question your opinion.

Its fairly clear rankism is what floats your boat and you seems to think you are the king of the put down. I know from the tone of many of your posts that you have a very high opinion of yourself and I will know better than to disagree in future.

For what its worth, getting to the topic of this thread, I think that our defence has been very solid for November and whilst I don't disagree that Tarkowski is a fine player and that Harlee Dean has been playing exceptionally well recently , in my opinion we get the best out of either player when they are alongside Craig who as well as providing better balance because of the left/right argument, also marshals the defence well . The stats for the various pairings are seemingly fairly conclusive evidence of this but nevertheless Craig is now on 4 bookings so is close to a suspension and if the Tarkowski/Dean pairing performs when that occurs then just like last time he will have to bide his time to get back in just as Tarkowski has lately. Calls to leave him out now are however IMHO harsh and premature.

I think what needs to be taken into consideration in centr half debate is that the full back position changed due to injury after the Bolton game, so you could say that this could have improved the defence. I do think the forwards have saved the defence some blushes recently especially the games against Millwall and Fulham but I am happy to go along with MW decision on team selection.

 

[wanderer paul]

The stats for the various pairings are seemingly fairly conclusive evidence of this but nevertheless Craig is now on 4 bookings so is close to a suspension and if the Tarkowski/Dean pairing performs when that occurs then just like last time he will have to bide his time to get back in just as Tarkowski has lately. Calls to leave him out now are however IMHO harsh and premature.

Craig is 6 bookings off suspension, the rules changed this season, see the Yellow Peril thread

As for the rest..... Oh dear.

 

[sonofabee]

I assume this latest jibe is aimed at me again as you have used the same word you used in your sanctimonious PM to me last night reminding me that I was wrong.

Clearly you aren't calling for Craig to be dropped and I have presumably misquoted you again so I have left what you said above verbatim. Maybe you are advocating playing 3 centre backs !

You accuse me of having personal digs at you, yet on 3 separate occasions (including in the said PM ) you have told me to grow up, have also referred to me as " a bit of a div" and "being a bit silly" as well as bizzarely apparantly cowardly for daring to question your opinion.

Its fairly clear rankism is what floats your boat and you seems to think you are the king of the put down. I know from the tone of many of your posts that you have a very high opinion of yourself and I will know better than to disagree in future.

For what its worth, getting to the topic of this thread, I think that our defence has been very solid for November and whilst I don't disagree that Tarkowski is a fine player and that Harlee Dean has been playing exceptionally well recently , in my opinion we get the best out of either player when they are alongside Craig who as well as providing better balance because of the left/right argument, also marshals the defence well . The stats for the various pairings are seemingly fairly conclusive evidence of this but nevertheless Craig is now on 4 bookings so is close to a suspension and if the Tarkowski/Dean pairing performs when that occurs then just like last time he will have to bide his time to get back in just as Tarkowski has lately. Calls to leave him out now are however IMHO harsh and premature.

Who has called for him to be dropped, I've said Warbs has a hard job.
I sent you a PM that was I thought was trying to be reasonable and you go public after telling me to F*** off.
It was a match reports thread that people there posted that TC had a poor game from which you've got drawn into all sorts of conspiracies to get him dropped.

I will resist the temptation to get personal but you do as you see fit.

 

[opinions5u]

I assume this latest jibe is aimed at me again as you have used the same word you used in your sanctimonious PM to me last night reminding me that I was wrong.

Clearly you aren't calling for Craig to be dropped and I have presumably misquoted you again so I have left what you said above verbatim. Maybe you are advocating playing 3 centre backs !

You accuse me of having personal digs at you, yet on 3 separate occasions (including in the said PM ) you have told me to grow up, have also referred to me as " a bit of a div" and "being a bit silly" as well as bizzarely apparantly cowardly for daring to question your opinion.

Its fairly clear rankism is what floats your boat and you seems to think you are the king of the put down. I know from the tone of many of your posts that you have a very high opinion of yourself and I will know better than to disagree in future.

For what its worth, getting to the topic of this thread, I think that our defence has been very solid for November and whilst I don't disagree that Tarkowski is a fine player and that Harlee Dean has been playing exceptionally well recently , in my opinion we get the best out of either player when they are alongside Craig who as well as providing better balance because of the left/right argument, also marshals the defence well . The stats for the various pairings are seemingly fairly conclusive evidence of this but nevertheless Craig is now on 4 bookings so is close to a suspension and if the Tarkowski/Dean pairing performs when that occurs then just like last time he will have to bide his time to get back in just as Tarkowski has lately. Calls to leave him out now are however IMHO harsh and premature.

My advice would be to put a coat on and go for a walk.

Don't take your phone or tablet with you.

 

[MattyBee]

Happy Christmas everyone!

 

[Brentford_till_die]

James is our most talented centre back but I'd stick with TC and HD next Saturday.

 

[Brentford 4 Life]

I think Tarky needs a game. Craig was woeful and Dean was only slightly better. Both have been very good recently but yesterday our back four were pony.

 

[hanworthbee]

you can't stick with the same eleven every week even if you're winning, needs tweaking every now and then

 

[banburybee]

I agree that some freshening up is needed. My concern is that if we drop HD it will look like he gets the blame whenever we lose. Truth is I kind of feel he is struggling when teams target him. I want him to be a huge success but at the back of my mind I also think Tarky is a far superior player over the long term. All of which sounds a bit UKIP , lots of pointing out of the bleeding obvious and highlighting problems without providing any answers. Oops mixing up the threads. Anyway COYB or is it COYR. It was all so much simpler when we were broke and rubbish.

 

[CRitch87]

Happy Christmas everyone!

Grow up you *****

It's "Merry Christmas" not "Happy Christmas"

Some people just drive their own agendas and opinions and this forum, I hate it.

 

[Novice01274]

I think Tarky needs a game. Craig was woeful and Dean was only slightly better. Both have been very good recently but yesterday our back four were pony.

Back four were horribly exposed at times. There are more than 4 in a defence. TC was battered from the off by Holt. A couple of times he was shoved so hard he missed an easy header by a yard. Holt was lucky not to get an early booking. Because he didn't he was able to strong arm our defence all afternoon. Ref was poor to both teams throughout yesterday.

 

[sonofabee]

Grow up you *****

It's "Merry Christmas" not "Happy Christmas"

Some people just drive their own agendas and opinions and this forum, I hate it.

I knew you and your cronies were looking for an excuse to drop Happy Christmas at the earliest opportunity!

If it's not good enough to go in front of Birthday as well I don't see you can consider leaving out, now stop being nasty!

 

[NorthamptonBee]

I agree that some freshening up is needed. My concern is that if we drop HD it will look like he gets the blame whenever we lose. Truth is I kind of feel he is struggling when teams target him. I want him to be a huge success but at the back of my mind I also think Tarky is a far superior player over the long term. All of which sounds a bit UKIP , lots of pointing out of the bleeding obvious and highlighting problems without providing any answers. Oops mixing up the threads. Anyway COYB or is it COYR. It was all so much simpler when we were broke and rubbish.

But Graham went straight to TC and so did Holt yesterday, I know for a fact that Graham did as Jackett told him to, I would say that TC has been targeted the past 2 weeks, not surprising if they've been watching us lately, take on the big man who is running through brick walls probably wasn't on the scout's notes.

 

[The Pipe]

Difficult one, the experience of Craig plus he is left footed are advantages however we are in a good position so now perhaps is an ideal time to try the Harlee Tarky pairing to see if we can get it to work. Prefer us to do it by choice when we have some points in the bag

Craig understands the way foitball works he has not been at his best so will not be surprised if he has a rest

 

[Kingston Bee]

Dont think it would do any harm to restore Tarks at this moment in time and give Craig a rest. Dont think TC is at his best atm and he will still have a big part to play this season. This is what competition for places is all about, why we have a squad, and is obvious teams are targeting TC. Tarks deserves his place back in the team at this moment in time, imho.

 

[Brandy]

IF MW decides to drop TC, then he should play JT as the left sided centre back, as he is far more comfortable on the ball than Dean is. With the JT & HD pairing earlier in the season I thought HD looked a little a bit uncomfortable when as the left sided centre back.

 

[hanworthbee]

Team needs freshening up IMO so tarky in and Craig out.....need a bit of mobility against Rhodes next week and height against gestede

 

[nick logan]

Team needs freshening up IMO so tarky in and Craig out.....need a bit of mobility against Rhodes next week and height against gestede

Why does our team need freshening up ? we have just won 5 on the spin.

Can all the knee jerkers stop jerking their knees please.

Only decisions for MW to make are in midfield imho. Jota and Dallas must be in with a shout especially Jota

 

[hanworthbee]

Because even Real Madrid who've won about 20 in a row tinker with the team from week to week.

 

[nick logan]

Because even Real Madrid who've won about 20 in a row tinker with the team from week to week.

They don't drop the captain though

 

[nick logan]

TBH there's only one way to find out isn't there? You have to give Dean and Tarks a chance. If it doesn't work out it will clarify the position rather well, indicate who is likely to go and what we need to bring in..

Every time we have played Tarks and Harlee together everybody says that they both play better with TC. Cant see him dropping the Captain again

 

[hanworthbee]

How long do you leave our best defender on the bench for? Some tough decisions for mark warburton to make.

 

[Kingston Bee]

Every time we have played Tarks and Harlee together everybody says that they both play better with TC. Cant see him dropping the Captain again

Don't see it as dropping, more resting.

 

[nick logan]

How long do you leave our best defender on the bench for? Some tough decisions for mark warburton to make.

It is a tough one we all know that, glad its not my call. He would have to play very well for 2-3 months to be called our best defender on this seasons performances imo.

 

[nick logan]

Don't see it as dropping, more resting.

Hes had a " rest " already this season

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Why does our team need freshening up ? we have just won 5 on the spin.

Can all the knee jerkers stop jerking their knees please.

Only decisions foe MW to make are in midfield imho. Jota and Dallas must be in with a shout especially Jota

Nothing jerky about saying he will make changes, you are saying it yourself, we're not an 11 anymore, we are a squad, the 11 have deserved their places up until Saturday but he will make changes IMO and I reckon Tarks will start after that defensive display on Saturday, none of the 11 are bad players but Warbs has emphasised the squad nature of this season, there wasn't a howler of a mistake ala Fulham by Harlee that he managed to sort out, the 11 made many mistakes and he will change it, he wouldn't be true to his word if he didn't, nothing jerky about anyone debating that at all mate.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

It is a tough one we all know that, glad its not my call. He would have to play very well for 2-3 months to be called our best defender on this seasons performances imo.

I agree by the way, Tarks has been our least effective looking defender this season IMO, I think he was brilliant last season but if he gets a start he will need to up his game to keep it IMO.
A fantastic talent but HD and TC have been the best pairing thus far.

 

[nick logan]

Nothing jerky about saying he will make changes, you are saying it yourself, we're not an 11 anymore, we are a squad, the 11 have deserved their places up until Saturday but he will make changes IMO and I reckon Tarks will start after that defensive display on Saturday, none of the 11 are bad players but Warbs has emphasised the squad nature of this season, there wasn't a howler of a mistake ala Fulham by Harlee that he managed to sort out, the 11 made many mistakes and he will change it, he wouldn't be true to his word if he didn't, nothing jerky about anyone debating that at all mate.

Ok Harlee out Tarky in then yes ?

I agree with your points mate but i am not sure dropping the Captain again would be a wise move. Just my opinion.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Ok Harlee out Tarky in then yes ? :Fishing:
I agree with your points mate but i am not sure dropping the Captain again would be a wise move. Just my opinion.

That might happen, if they want rid of HD then that would work, do you seriously think he was the weaker one at the weekend?... back to you.

I also think Dallas is closer to a start than Jota after the past few weeks, he's had more minutes and changed the tempo every bloody time he's come on.
All good discussion IMO.

 

[Bangor Bee]

We looked solid at Wigan with Tarkowski in the team, but we haven't looked solid at Bolton, Millwall or Huddersfield. He is our most talented defender and it's time for his return.

 

[westendbee]

TBH there's only one way to find out isn't there? You have to give Dean and Tarks a chance.

remember Middlesbrough?

 

[Herbert]

How long do you leave our best defender on the bench for? Some tough decisions for mark warburton to make.

winning 5 on the bounce convincingly has kept him out of the team. that's how it works. He will get another chance then its for him to lose

 

[NorthamptonBee]

We looked solid at Wigan with Tarkowski in the team, but we haven't looked solid at Bolton, Millwall or Huddersfield. He is our most talented defender and it's time for his return.

One game and you picked out three others to make your point, was that Wigan who were managed by Rosler, are second bottom and couldn't and still can't score for toffee? Charlton, Brighton, Reading, Bruma nd many others could have been dodgy but for some crap finishing from them, I don't think we've ever been steady Eddie at the back this season but nor will we back as it's a huge jump and there are some top sides in this league, my eyes have told me that after the Derby first half and taking away a mental 5 minutes at Millwall, we have looked as solid as we have all season up until Huddersfield. I think Tarks will start at on Saturday but no idea who he will rest but picking out the Wigan game is a bit lame IMO.

 

[nick logan]

That might happen, if they want rid of HD then that would work, do you seriously think he was the weaker one at the weekend?... back to you.

I also think Dallas is closer to a start than Jota after the past few weeks, he's had more minutes and changed the tempo every bloody time he's come on.
All good discussion IMO.

:lol: I dont think he was no , but would have serious misgivings about dropping the Captain. He will stick with HD and TC i reckon anyway

 

[kevalutonbee]

Because even Real Madrid who've won about 20 in a row tinker with the team from week to week.

Didn't Ranieri and the fat Spanish Waiter effectively get the sack for the same though and didn't the revolution at Stevenage come around by the players saying enough with the changes?

 

[josht]

Didn't Ranieri and the fat Spanish Waiter effectively get the sack for the same though and didn't the revolution at Stevenage come around by the players saying enough with the changes?

So you're saying that a manager isn't allowed to change team otherwise he could get sacked? There's also a difference between changing around one or two players and making wholesale changes to the starting line up (i.e. calculated/tactical inclusions versus change of change sake). It's not a punishment of those players whom are being replaced, but instead making the most of a talented squad.

Personally, I'd bring out Total and Craig for Dallas and Tarkowski against Blackburn. Not because Toral and Craig been playing terribly or anything like that, but Craig has had a couple of difficult games where he's been targeted by big aerial strikers (and we're up against Gestede on Saturday) and Dallas has had a great impact in his recent appearances. Also, I think it's time that Dean and Tarkowski developed a partnership similar that the one that Craig has with either of them.

 

[kevalutonbee]

So you're saying that a manager isn't allowed to change team otherwise he could get sacked? There's also a difference between changing around one or two players and making wholesale changes to the starting line up (i.e. calculated/tactical inclusions versus change of change sake). It's not a punishment of those players whom are being replaced, but instead making the most of a talented squad.

Personally, I'd bring out Total and Craig for Dallas and Tarkowski against Blackburn. Not because Toral and Craig been playing terribly or anything like that, but Craig has had a couple of difficult games where he's been targeted by big aerial strikers (and we're up against Gestede on Saturday) and Dallas has had a great impact in his recent appearances. Also, I think it's time that Dean and Tarkowski developed a partnership similar that the one that Craig has with either of them.

I'm all for picking a team/formation to win a game. I some times got the impression that Benitez sometimes changed personnel just because he could and the press were basically expecting changes and he gave them what they wanted

 

[sonofabee]

So you're saying that a manager isn't allowed to change team otherwise he could get sacked? There's also a difference between changing around one or two players and making wholesale changes to the starting line up (i.e. calculated/tactical inclusions versus change of change sake). It's not a punishment of those players whom are being replaced, but instead making the most of a talented squad.

Personally, I'd bring out Total and Craig for Dallas and Tarkowski against Blackburn. Not because Toral and Craig been playing terribly or anything like that, but Craig has had a couple of difficult games where he's been targeted by big aerial strikers (and we're up against Gestede on Saturday) and Dallas has had a great impact in his recent appearances. Also, I think it's time that Dean and Tarkowski developed a partnership similar that the one that Craig has with either of them.

Top post, not dropping Craig and Toral but rotating and I'd be inclined to give Tarkowski and Dallas a start vs Blackburn. They have pace and power up front, whoever starts for us at centre back both will have to play at their best as Rhodes and Gestede are a handful supplied by Marshall who will test Moses as well.

 

[CTBee]

Every time we have played Tarks and Harlee together everybody says that they both play better with TC. Cant see him dropping the Captain again

They played well together at Rotherham. I would play JT and HD on Saturday as I think they're better equipped to deal with the aerial presence of gestede and Rhodes. If you "have" to play Craig because he's captain then I would put him at left back and give Jake a rest.

 

[beebopalula]

Every time we have played Tarks and Harlee together everybody says that they both play better with TC. Cant see him dropping the Captain again

The problem is that would mean that Craig can more or less turn in any type of performance whereas Dean isn't going to get any slack. I see the issue but it breaks the Warburton code on performing consistently well. Craig should not have a guaranteed place.

 

[nick logan]

The problem is that would mean that Craig can more or less turn in any type of performance whereas Dean isn't going to get any slack. I see the issue but it breaks the Warburton code on performing consistently well. Craig should not have a guaranteed place.

He hasn't got a guaranteed place but he doesn't deserve to be dropped for one bad game imo. The 3 CB's have been treated equally imo.
i dont why this is even being discussed tbh , we lost unluckily thanks to a ***** ref , Lev Yashin Smithies in goal and bad luck, why there is a need to change the defence all of a sudden i dont know.

 

[sonofabee]

He hasn't got a guaranteed place but he doesn't deserve to be dropped for one bad game imo. The 3 CB's have been treated equally imo.
i dont why this is even being discussed tbh , we lost unluckily thanks to a ***** ref , Lev Yashin Smithies in goal and bad luck, why there is a need to change the defence all of a sudden i dont know.

It's a tough call for Warbs, Tarks has been a spectator for 7 games and is arguably our best centre back but we've only lost once in that time. Guess it's where he earns his money, damned if he does and if he doesn't and we struggle against a very lively attack.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

He hasn't got a guaranteed place but he doesn't deserve to be dropped for one bad game imo. The 3 CB's have been treated equally imo.
i dont why this is even being discussed tbh , we lost unluckily thanks to a ***** ref , Lev Yashin Smithies in goal and bad luck, why there is a need to change the defence all of a sudden i dont know.

Mate, I get it but he says to Tarks, how can I play you after all those wins and Tarks accepts it, they were a shambles at the back on Saturday, I don't see how he can't shuffle the pack and if he doesn't, what has to happen for Tarks to ever get a game? Is one bad game enough, I don't know but what is the barometer, do we wait for 3 bad games? Toral has been class but I reckon Dallas nicks his place after Saturday, I think it's the old TC and HD syndrome, in as much as how do you drop them?
I don't honestly think we were as unlucky as you say, we could have gone ahead, we went 2 down and were in trouble for the next 15/20 minutes until a late rally could/should have seen us get something, I don't think we were robbed at all, we didn't deserve to be behind at HT IMO but we were well beaten until the last 20.

 

[shouldbee]

I think most on here agree that Tarky is our best centre back ?....he didn't lose his place for poor performance it was a one match ban, same as JD who came straight back into the team ?. I wasn't there on Saturday so I respectfully bow to the opinions of those who were, however watching the highlights a few times, (incidentally the bits they showed made us look very good), it seemed to me both the centre backs were suspect in both of their goals. Warbs repeatable says it's not an 11 man game it's all about the squad so bearing this in mind I don't see why Tarky should not start on Saturday ?, if he doesn't then IMO he has a right to feel aggrieved........