John Mousinho

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John Mousinho

markbfc said:
The non contract registration was introduced by the Football League in 1974 when the term amateur was abolished by the F.A. It's not a direct replacement however. When MA means "professional", he means full contract terms.
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Thanks for clarifying that for me, Mark.
 

John Mousinho

John Mousinho

A work collegue used to play in same team as him for Chesham and rates him highly very much in Gerrard mould apparently
 

John Mousinho

Maybe some of the posters on the GPG will cut Martin a little bit of slack now!!
He gets slagged off when he tries to improve the side without people knowing the facts.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as he is within budget and trying to get the club into the Championship (with all the constraints that managing Brentford entails) we should give him 100% backing!!

So please no more....wheres the money coming from stuff...PMA:

Nil Desparandum....
Courage brother! Do not falter,
Dry your tears and cease from sighing;
Though clouds look black, they soon may alter,
And the sun will send them flying.

Out of evil oft cometh good,
Is a maxim to my liking;
The blacksmith well the iron beateth,
But 'tis better for his striking.

Work today and give up grieving,
Know that joy is born of sorrow;
And though to-day is rainy weather,
Hap 'twill brighter be to-morrow.

Gambling doth not make our labour
The least bit more a pleasant task;
Tis joyful heart that lightens trouble,
Contentment brings to those who ask.

First the childhood, then the manhood;
First the task and then the story;
Tis after nightfall comes the dawning,
First the shade and then the glory.
 

John Mousinho

IsleofWight_Bee said:
Maybe some of the posters on the GPG will cut Martin a little bit of slack now!!
He gets slagged off when he tries to improve the side without people knowing the facts.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as he is within budget and trying to get the club into the Championship (with all the constraints that managing Brentford entails) we should give him 100% backing!!

So please no more....wheres the money coming from stuff...PMA:
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As someone who has 'slagged off' Allen on this I will take issue with your post.

The only reason he is still within his budget, if he is, is because we keep increasing it. There is no way the players we have would fit into a proper, well written budget. We don't get enough people through the door to pay for this big a squad. If we did we would have been able to pay the wages this month.

I'm not saying this is entirely his fault but he has to appreciate the bigger picture and stop pushing for more.

I will back him to the hilt but I have a horrible feeling we are backing ourselves into a corner where we can't pay the wages, which will lead to administration and our promotion chances being hit, hard.
 

John Mousinho

He's not in charge of the money WEB. He obviously sensed that those who were are a soft touch and he's never been reigned in.
 

John Mousinho

West Ealing Bee said:
We don't get enough people through the door to pay for this big a squad.
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Do we have a big squad? Is it bigger than last season? Is Owusu earning more than Burton? Is Tillen earning more than Myers? Is Brooker earning more than Salako & Hunt combined, DJ more than Harrold? Skullasson more than Lawrence? Newman would appear to be the only addition to the numbers especially as Lewis & now Mousinho are playing for nowt.
What do we have 18 players plus youngters like Peters & Osbourne and a couple on non-contract, I know we keep hearing how the budget is loads higher, I'm just wondering where? I suppose O'Connor, Sodje & Frampton got increased new deals, but was actually so huge, we now close to administration. :confused:
 
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John Mousinho

Gee Bee said:
Do we have a big squad? Is it bigger than last season? Is Owusu earning more than Burton? Is Tillen earning more than Myers? Is Brooker earning more than Salako & Hunt combined, DJ more than Harrold?
What do we have 18 players plus youngters like Peters & Osbourne, I know we keep hearing how the budget is loads higher, I'm just wondering where? I suppose O'Connor, Sodje & Frampton got increased new deals, but was actually so huge, we now close to administration. :confused:
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I would suspect that our budget is no different to last season...possibly slightly lower to be honest...although Skulason was rumoured to be on quite a bit...but I'm sure the insurance...I am presuming we had some...covers that anyway!!
 

John Mousinho

Simon C said:
He's not in charge of the money WEB. He obviously sensed that those who were are a soft touch and he's never been reigned in.
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I don't disagree but in no way should we accept his extra purchases putting us on the brink of administration either.

If the board have given him the money, more fool them and we will get them out.
If he went over their heads then that is a larger problem.

I have to say I presume it is the former but we can't rule out the the latter :shrug:

Given the fact that he knows we can't afford to pay the players should he not be doing his part to lower the wage bill. This could be part of it, but it just seems like an extra body to me. Which we have buy kit for, treat if they're injured, perhaps feed at the training grouns..............
 

John Mousinho

Bush Tuckerman said:
I would suspect that our budget is no different to last season...possibly slightly lower to be honest...although Skulason was rumoured to be on quite a bit...but I'm sure the insurance...I am presuming we had some...covers that anyway!!
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Doubt very much Skullasson is actaully that well paid. I have seen the salry sums insured for equivalent reserve premier club players and they do not earn any more than the average 1st & 2nd league players. :sorted:
 

John Mousinho

West Ealing Bee said:
I don't disagree but in no way should we accept his extra purchases putting us on the brink of administration either.
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This is the point thoug, what extra purchases, 2 are not being paid and 1 is being paid by Lifeline. :sorted:
Its the accountant who is setting the budget that is wrong, we were actually well out last season and saved by the FA cup run, that is fact. :sorted:
 

John Mousinho

But was he told just how serious things were until now? The general reaction on this board when we signed more and more players (Lawrence, Gayle, Sobers, Fitz, etc, etc) was "how can we afford this? Oh well, at least we keep winning". Just how close we had come to administration was a real shock to Bees fans and who's to say it wasn't to Allen aswell. For too long our financial situation has been bad yet no-one seemed to really think it would go too far but it nearly did. That needs to be a serious wake up call to the board, BU, the manager and the fans.
 

John Mousinho

Gee Bee said:
Doubt very much Skullasson is actaully that well paid.
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I suspect he is. We'll just have to speculate at the moment but I'm sure there was more than one club looking at him in the summer which may have increased the wage.

In terms of numbers it might not be as high as I intimated but considering we have Hutchinson, Tabb, Newman, Dobson and Skulason out we still have 5 reasonably experienced professionals on the bench yesterday, so that gives us a 21 man squad, which seems a lot for a club so near to the wire.

I don't know why we are so close to administration, I'm just pointing out the manager, who controls the largest proportion of our expenses, should not be absolved of blame.
 

John Mousinho

Bush Tuckerman said:
I would suspect that our budget is no different to last season...possibly slightly lower to be honest...although Skulason was rumoured to be on quite a bit...but I'm sure the insurance...I am presuming we had some...covers that anyway!!
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I don't think we can afford the kind of insurance you are thinking of. :sad:
 

John Mousinho

Simon C said:
But was he told just how serious things were until now? The general reaction on this board when we signed more and more players (Lawrence, Gayle, Sobers, Fitz, etc, etc) was "how can we afford this?
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The FA cup run enabled some extra although I believe Gayle originally only got paid when he played, which wasn't that often and Sobers was on YTS money at Ipswich and was on loan, so they may well have still been paying some of the small salary. :wave:
 

John Mousinho

Gee Bee said:
This is the point thoug, what extra purchases, 2 are not being paid and 1 is being paid by Lifeline. :sorted:
Its the accountant who is setting the budget that is wrong, we were actually well out last season and saved by the FA cup run, that is fact. :sorted:
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I'm not saying the men at the top shouldn't be hauled over the coals, I just want to know why we keep adding players.

Perhaps they aren't costing us anything but it seems to me Mr Allen was keen to stress no 'basic wage' and no 'expenses'. No mention of appearance money and bonuses, although I did read it quickly.

There was also no mention of associated costs, extra kit, medical expenses, feeding them :shrug:
 

John Mousinho

West Ealing Bee said:
I don't know why we are so close to administration, I'm just pointing out the manager, who controls the largest proportion of our expenses, should not be absolved of blame.
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But this is wrong. He controls whatever proportion of the budget he gets told he controls. He can do what he likes within that limit and if he finds he's spread his money too thinly and needs bodies to cover injuries he should be told no. Simple as that. abee posted on another thread that the board should even have gone as far as giving Allen 90% of the budget and told him to keep the rest back until January. Pretty much every time he's asked for more money he's been given it.
 

John Mousinho

Simon C said:
But was he told just how serious things were until now? The general reaction on this board when we signed more and more players (Lawrence, Gayle, Sobers, Fitz, etc, etc) was "how can we afford this? Oh well, at least we keep winning". Just how close we had come to administration was a real shock to Bees fans and who's to say it wasn't to Allen aswell. For too long our financial situation has been bad yet no-one seemed to really think it would go too far but it nearly did. That needs to be a serious wake up call to the board, BU, the manager and the fans.
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I thought he went to board meetings.

The situation must have been discussed there.
 

John Mousinho

West Ealing Bee said:
I suspect he is. We'll just have to speculate at the moment but I'm sure there was more than one club looking at him in the summer which may have increased the wage.
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So if you are right is he and Newman paid more than Lawrence, Talbot & Hargreaves conbined? Who effectively they replaced. :sorted:

You still haven't answered the question, is our squad larger than last season?
 

John Mousinho

Simon C said:
But this is wrong. He controls whatever proportion of the budget he gets told he controls.
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A budget should be set that allows for flexibility, so should only be given 80 to 90% up front to use. However the new transfer window seems to of also confused many, because originally it was thought that we could not get transfers or loans in between August & January.
We must remember MA is an ambitious manager and ex footballer, not an accounatnt or economist. Controls on budget need to be set by the CEO & FD and they need to be prepared to say no. ;)
 

John Mousinho

IMO, Lloyd will be on more than Burton, Brooker more than Hunt, Newman more than Talbot, Oli more than Hargreaves, Campbell more than Harrold. The only recovery are on Lawrence's wages but I don't think they would make much difference.

Our wage bill must be higher this year.
 

John Mousinho

Gee Bee said:
So if you are right is he and Newman paid more than Lawrence, Talbot & Hargreaves conbined? Who effectively they replaced. :sorted:

You still haven't answered the question, is our squad larger than last season?
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I would hazard a guess the answer to your first question is yes, but neither of us really know.

'Is our squad larger than last season?'

I really don't know, this time last year ie October international weekend we had Osborne and Moleski amongst our sbstitutes, so perhaps it is larger. I don't have the information to hand.


It is my opinion, and one which it seems few share, that it is too large, whether it is bigger than last season or not.
 

John Mousinho

Simon C said:
But was he told just how serious things were until now?
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If its true that SC hasn't been regular with his management account reporting maybe many didn't know. :rolleyes: MA souldn't be asking for the amangement reports thats down to the CEO and other directors. :sorted:
 

John Mousinho

As I said earlier Rogers didn't seem to know but I'm not sure if that's worrying or to be expected.
 

John Mousinho

West Ealing Bee said:
I would hazard a guess the answer to your first question is yes, but neither of us really know.

'Is our squad larger than last season?'

I really don't know, this time last year ie October international weekend we had Osborne and Moleski amongst our sbstitutes, so perhaps it is larger. I don't have the information to hand.


It is my opinion, and one which it seems few share, that it is too large, whether it is bigger than last season or not.
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I have given you like for like replacements from last season, we also off loaded Jay Smith, Somner & Julian during the season. I'm just intrigued where our explosive budget has been spent. Maybe MA & AW have been given huge increases or bonuses. ;) :wave:
IMHO the budget was too high last season and the budget set for this season included balances that have since needed adjusting, but the biggest factor in our problem, is a unaccounted invoice that is not MA fault as it is not anything to do with the playing budget. :sorted:
 

John Mousinho

Bring back Wallace Downes I say .One hell of a manager and motivator ,who could work on a shoe string which ever league he took us down to
 

John Mousinho

It's good to see that GPG threads still filter back to MA -per his latest o/s update. There seems to be an acknowledgement now, if not previously, that he has to be more realistic with his player resources, and if some cuts need to be made, then so be it.

Is the squad too large/ larger than last season? I don't know, if it is then it's not by much. MA said at the season's start that he was happy that there was more quality in the squad this time round, and this may be what's cost the money. It could of course be argued that last season we were a couple of players short overall, & if we had had those then automatic promotion could have been achieved....we'll never know.
 

John Mousinho

In general I am not going to say any more on this, as my arguments have been pretty well shot down above. :wave:
I agree with most of what has been said, and in no way would I blame Martin Allen for our current financial position, but I don’t think you can completely ignore the wage bill in our overall financial position and IMHO Mr Allen has more control over that, and any additions to it, than I would like.

We could bat the squad issue back and forward all day, perhaps I should not have said we have a big squad, certainly not compared to other clubs, and if I said above that it is bigger than last year that may not be entirely true. I believe it is too big, if you include Ryan Peters in the first team squad we have 22 players, which is a lot for a team on the verge of administration.

In terms of last year, yes plenty of players left but Julian, Somner and Smith were replaced with extra bodies as we brought in striker after striker. May, Claridge and Fitzgerald all came in so did Lawrence, Gayle and Pratley. This all came out of the same budget even if, in some cases, their wages were small.

This is where I start to point the finger at MA, the reason our squad has grown is that he is not entirely happy with the players he has, and IMHO the board should have said that if he brought them in he had to deal with it.
Last season the cup run enabled us to expand the squad but it should have been made abundantly clear that that situation was a one off, if it wasn’t then those in charge of the finances need to be fired. If it was then Allen needs to be reigned in.
This season the injury to Skulason is obviously unfortunate but IMHO the Newman one isn’t. Buying an ageing player is fraught with risk and if Allen was to bring in Newman he had to consider the possibility he would miss much of the season. To ask for an extra body, or two, on top of that is wrong IMHO. Allen should make do, he brought him in.

I’m sure the argument will be that Lewis is costing us nothing but I don’t see how that can be the case, he can’t cost us ‘absolutely nothing’ the bloke still has bills to pay. I don’t doubt that he is not costing us much but that is extra money we are only spending because of transfer mistakes.

I am not saying Allen is culpable for our financial mess, no-one could contemplate that, but he does push hard for what he wants, and if he doesn’t get his own way he gets out his begging bowl and goes to lifeline or brings players in on a ‘non-contract’ basis. This all puts extra strain on thin resources, and I’m not sure it’s entirely fair on the board, who even if they say no end up with an extra player at the club.
 

John Mousinho

If the "huge squad" is made up of non-contract and loan players there's no long term issue as they can be got rid of very quickly.

If we go bust we go bust- it isn't going to come down to a few thousand here or there it will come down to the millions which we can't refinance (if the formalities of the option don't get completed). Perhaps this is why MA is being less constrained?
 

John Mousinho

Edmundo said:
How does a player who is costing us nothing cost us anything? Remember that if he gets an appearance fee, then someone else doesn't!
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It depends on what the appearance fee is. Lewis might be on a higher appearance fee due to him not receiveing regular wages aswell.
 

John Mousinho

cant be allen's fault because every board at every club have to agree don't they ?
 

John Mousinho

Sorry West Ealing Bee but I think this has been flogged to death now! In true GPG tradition, however,.......

The only points I would make are that assumptions are being made that MA pushed the pay envelope (wouldn't any manager worth his salt do this to be successful?). It's also been intimated that he bought players in knowing we were in a financial mess. Only MA knows if either or both of these assumptions are true and the tiresome speculation here does no good to anyone. Probably pi**es MA off though!

The key issues, as far as I'm concerned are:

1. did the board allow MA to spend more money than allocated and then realise the club was in the s*it?

2. did MA spend within the financial constraints (set by the board) and they still screwed up?

If either is the case then the board and not MA are to blame. Its up to them to manage the manager.

Last point(s) and I'll shut up, honest!

We have a bunch of kids on low pay making-up the numbers, it appears we spend less on players than anyone else and we have a small not massive squad. 22 is the number being bandied about.

Sorry but, based on the season so far, on some occasions we've just about managed to field a 1st team with substitues (and have a couple of 1st year pro's on standby) This is not what I'd call massive, bearing in mind the injury list we've had, I think we've been lucky to get away with creditable results. So well done MA. PMA :sorted:
 

John Mousinho

The playing budget was 940K this year and at the last moment went to 1.03M probably cos long term injuries in the close season. This is higher than last year which I dont have figures for but around 870K.

Playing budget needs to be within 60% of revenue.

23 home games+2 for cups (min) x
£18 per person (kids cheaper food consumed, other `matchday experience' expenditure) x
5500 (reasonable predicted average attendance) = 2.15M

1.03M/2.15M x 100 = 47%

My school boy maths says the player budget is acceptable.

This does not account for TV, cup runs, other income streams etc.

The squad size is average if not small for this league independent of cost.

Bonus costs cannot be predetermined as a variable, that would need a crystal ball. However, a maximum could be calculated and be offset against the additional income that would definately come from the success i.e. TV, act of promotion.

MA does not determine budget but needs of the team to last the season and perform.

Unlike some other teams we have to pay 200K in interest on loans each year.

Pratley is paid buy Lifeline.
Mouishno is free until he plays and we want to pay him, not necessarily the same thing.
Sku is not earning bonuses.
Lewis is pay if play.

I leave you lot too mull over this.

:dj: 4 90
 

John Mousinho

No_sting_Bee said:
23 home games+2 for cups (min) x
£18 per person (kids cheaper food consumed, other `matchday experience' expenditure) x
5500 (reasonable predicted average attendance) = 2.15M

1.03M/2.15M x 100 = 47%
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I think you are way out on this, for one because you have forgotten to take into consideration adult season ticket holders means they pay about £13 per game, kids season tickets pay £1.75 per game and we have 2,300 season ticket holders. So you cannot have £18 per head over 5,500 bodies. With other on the day kids paying £4 and some on the day adults paying less than £18, I would guess that including food and drink purchased it is probably nearer £10 per head per game plus 2 cup games is probably bring an income nearer £1.5m than £2m, and over 60% paid therefore on wages.
 

John Mousinho

I agree. There is no way we are only 47% of turnover. If we were, we would have kept Mr Burton and MA wouldn't have had to beg for money for Darren Pratley.
 

John Mousinho

Les Beeavinu said:
I agree. There is no way we are only 47% of turnover. If we were, we would have kept Mr Burton and MA wouldn't have had to beg for money for Darren Pratley.
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We also wouldn't have SC putting in an average crowd prediction for the season in the budget of 6,400, he could have afforded to be more conservative, if we had excess of £2m in income. ;)
 

John Mousinho

Watched him for the reserves v Millwall on Tuesday - Had no idea who he was at the time but he was outstanding at right back with very quick overlapping runs and good passing.

I was so impressed I ventured to find out who he was and hence I know he was Mousshino (Or however you spell it)
 

John Mousinho

Practising that song already

Who needs Mourinho
When we`ve got Mousinho
 

John Mousinho

He is going to be quite a player - hopefully for us. He has all that it takes to succeed nowadays - power, pace, height, strength, good engine etc etc. He also looks like he might have some skill as well !

This will be a good move for all concerned a she will come back better for the experience as did matt harrold after his spell in the Conference.
 

John Mousinho

John Mousinho

I was quite impressed with him v. Oxford, especially as he played most of the game out of position in midfield. Yes, he did run out of steam in 2nd half & extra time, & so a spell with the (slightly) lesser demands of non-league footie should be good experience.....
 

John Mousinho

If the lad's got pace and skill, why not give him a run in our first team? You never know, he might prove a revelation in midfield, especially when you consider some who he might replace! Can't be much worse surely. Give the lad a chance I say, before he gets pis**d off and goes elsewhere.
 

John Mousinho

Sorry it’s a bit long but after reading 4 pages it’s a bit hard to make a short comment.

I think MA has actually been quite shrewd in terms of how he has balanced his playing budget. In the pre-MA days we had 30 or so pros to cover us for a first and reserve teams. Instead MA has given us 20 ‘better quality’ pros and, supposedly a youth team that’s in the top 2% in the country, as I’ve heard it quoted, which is in my opinion a good step forward, except, God forbid, if we get an injury crisis. In spite of this I would question whether our former reserve players would do any better that the YTS players that would come into the squad now.

Although the youth team may not be his handiwork, scrapping the squad of frankly useless reserves was. It seems that with having 3 players not paid standard contracts by the club, plus Bankole doubling up as a coach, the budget seems to be being used as well as it could be (except for perhaps Fitz’s wages, but that’s another thread). However, whether this budget is big, small or just right is more, although not completely the responsibility of the board who ‘release’ the funds to MA.

On the budget calculation front, I think it is almost impossible to tell how much goes in and comes out, unless you’ve got the figures in front of you. I’ll make it quick but the following might have a bearing on the figures:-

Non-playing staff, ground maintenance, sponsorship, training ground costs, various insurance costs, Security, St.John Ambulance and Police at GP, not to mention the huge amounts we pay back on the loan. Also I think I’m right in saying we get a % of the away revenue, as it’s a rule of the league.

Having been away from GP for a little while, please could someone tell me how close we actually came to administration?
 
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