John Terry

[westwing]

I would be happy to see Terry kicked out of the England sqad for good.
He's a poor example IMO, not just for calling a team mates brother black but isn't ****
just as offensive.

In any other work environment, he would be sacked, end of !

 

[moribee]

Well its up The manager who he picks. Trouble is England managers always seen to in for same old same old after reading the papers. There has been no imagination since Joe Mercer had a brief spell many years ago. In any other work environment both partIes may be suspended subject to a prelim and then a disciplinary. Bad language in the workplace is not acceptable. On a lighter note we must not forget that Ferdinand plays for scum. As they say if the hat fits wear it.................I think.......

 

[detours]

Don't think color is relevant,you are what you are. Move on. Can't see Leon or Marcus disagreeing with that. There really is a skin color problem on here which makes Terrys alleged crime fade into obscurity.

I agree, skin colour is irrelevant to whether a person is a 'c**t' or not and I am sure they would not disagree with that.

However, I am equally sure that Leon or Marcus would question the wisdom of John Terry mentioning Anton Ferdinand's skin colour at all, if it is not relevant?

So can you please explain to me, if you believe John Terry was not being racist, why did he choose to specifically call Ferdinand a 'black c**t', instead of just a 'c**t'?

 

[moribee]

I agree, skin colour is irrelevant to whether a person is a 'c**t' or not and I am sure they would not disagree with that.

However, I am equally sure that Leon or Marcus would question the wisdom of John Terry mentioning Anton Ferdinand's skin colour at all, if it is not relevant?

So can you please explain to me, if you believe John Terry was not being racist, why did he choose to specifically call Ferdinand a 'black c

**t', instead of just a 'c**t'?

We don't know that he did call him that at the moment . But what is missing in this is what Ferdinand said to Terry. It was a flare up which lasted 10-15 seconds? Ferdinand isn't even black which begs another question of visual proof. Bit like calling someone a bald **** when they still have hair left on the side of their heads. Also begs the question when is a gypo not a gypo. More pertinent is questioning Terrys ability to be a cool leader. Which I had a pound do, every time I have heard Lewington called a ginger **** or his parentage questioned.

 

[jlove]

It strikes me that the FA must be particularly clueless if they did not take into account the opinion of the manager when making their decision to over-ride the manager's prerogative to chose his players and captain. We can discuss for ever about a manager's selections but having interference from above just undermined his position.

 

[detours]

We don't know that he did call him that at the moment.

I have seen the video, it's fairly conclusive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0z_Y2dk-aQ&feature=related

But what is missing in this is what Ferdinand said to Terry.

Whatever Ferdinand said to Terry, doesn't justify racial abuse being hurled back at him.

It was a flare up which lasted 10-15 seconds?

So, you think that because it happened in a short period of time, it is somehow any less racist?

Ferdinand isn't even black which begs another question of visual proof.

Ferdinand is mixed race, with Irish and St Lucian parents. Whether or not John Terry was technically accurate is superfluous to whether it was a racist comment or not.

Bit like calling someone a bald **** when they still have hair left on the side of their heads.

Yes, because bald people are all born bald, and have suffered persecution for hundreds of years. Who can forget Martin Luther King's famous 'I have a dream that people will not be judged by the shininess of their pate, but the content of their character' speech?

More pertinent is questioning Terrys ability to be a cool leader.

No one is questioning Terry's ability to lead. The FA have concluded that it is not right for him to lead, with such a potentially damaging smear upon him (and the country he represents).

 

[detours]

It strikes me that the FA must be particularly clueless if they did not take into account the opinion of the manager when making their decision to over-ride the manager's prerogative to chose his players and captain. We can discuss for ever about a manager's selections but having interference from above just undermined his position.

Capello should have stripped him of the captaincy himself then?

You can't potentially have a player leading the England team up the steps to lift the trophy with a racial abuse charge yet to be concluded.

Terry brought it upon himself by requesting that the decision be put back until after the Euros. By doing so, he forced the FA's hand.

 

[LostBee]

Agree with almost all of that except the second point.

I don't think it is fair that Mr Ferdinand can make disgusting,lurid remarks about someone's private life (true or not),then act all sensitive when they get some verbal back.He was winding Terry up deliberately and now looks like an innocent little angel.

They were both bang out of order in my book.

 

[moribee]

I have seen the video, it's fairly conclusive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0z_Y2dk-aQ&feature=related

Whatever Ferdinand said to Terry, doesn't justify racial abuse being hurled back at him.

So, you think that because it happened in a short period of time, it is somehow any less racist?

Ferdinand is mixed race, with Irish and St Lucian parents. Whether or not John Terry was technically accurate is superfluous to whether it was a racist comment or not.

Yes, because bald people are all born bald, and have suffered persecution for hundreds of years. Who can forget Martin Luther King's famous 'I have a dream that people will not be judged by the shininess of their pate, but the content of their character' speech?

No one is questioning Terry's ability to lead. The FA have concluded that it is not right for him to lead, with such a potentially damaging smear upon him (and

the country he represents).

Agree with all the bits in yellow tho I do question Terrys ability to lead. Certainly not racist just not very self serving. Think peoples obsession with color of someone skin is very sad indictment on our society.

 

[moribee]

Agree with almost all of that except the second point.

I don't think it is fair that Mr Ferdinand can make disgusting,lurid remarks about someone's private life (true or not),then act all sensitive when they get some verbal back.He was winding Terry up deliberately and now looks like an innocent little angel.

They were both bang out of order in my book.

Some sense at last and both should be in the dock if people want to waste our money

 

[jlove]

Capello should have stripped him of the captaincy himself then?

It should have been Capello's decision to make.

You can't potentially have a player leading the England team up the steps to lift the trophy with a racial abuse charge yet to be concluded.

Terry is currently an innocent man in the eyes of the law.

Terry brought it upon himself by requesting that the decision be put back until after the Euros. By doing so, he forced the FA's hand.

The judge adjourned because Chelsea players would not be able to appear as witnesses until the end of the football season; it was not a request by Terry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not approving of his general conduct; I'm questioning how the FA and their manager can be so out of step.

 

[BeeHomeSoon]

Ferdinand is mixed race, with Irish and St Lucian parents. Whether or not John Terry was technically accurate is superfluous to whether it was a racist comment or not.

Dual Heritage you Racist!!!

 

[detours]

It should have been Capello's decision to make. Terry is currently an innocent man in the eyes of the law.The judge adjourned because Chelsea players would not be able to appear as witnesses until the end of the football season; it was not a request by Terry. Don't get me wrong, I'm not approving of his general conduct; I'm questioning how the FA and their manager can be so out of step.

The FA has it written into the contract that they have the power to make that decision. When Capello didn't strip Terry of the captaincy, the FA reserved the right to override the manager's decision.

Terry may currently be an innocent man in the eyes of the law, and were the case concluded before Euro 2012 we would have a verdict either way. Since that isn't the case, Terry cannot continue with his duties as captain while the case remains unresolved. It seems simple enough. The FA statement is pretty clear on the issue:

"This decision has been taken due to the higher profile nature of the England captaincy, on and off the pitch, and the additional demands and requirements expected of the captain leading into and during a tournament."

 

[detours]

Dual Heritage you Racist!!!

Aha no, because I am unsure as to how many races there are in Anton Ferdinand's background. Dual Heritage implies only two, whereas mixed is ambiguous.

 

[BeeHomeSoon]

Aha no, because I am unsure as to how many races there are in Anton Ferdinand's background. Dual Heritage implies only two, whereas mixed is ambiguous.

You previously said he had 2. Don't give me those John Terry like excuses!!!

 

[Bee H]

I have seen the video, it's fairly conclusive. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0z_Y2dk-aQ&feature=related

apologies detours but I honestly don't think it is - the shape of his mouth tends to suggest he shouted "blind" rather than "black" imho :shrug:

 

[SmiffyBee]

apologies detours but I honestly don't think it is - the shape of his mouth tends to suggest he shouted "blind" rather than "black" imho :shrug:

....looks like he says black to me.
Terry's mouth makes the same shape at the end of "black" and at the start of "c**t"

The hard "c" sound,

He even admitted using the term "black c**t" after the game.

He should admit it, apologise, take his punishment and move on.
He's no more racist than the majority of us - but thinks he is above the law - which is a worse attribute.

 

[detours]

apologies detours but I honestly don't think it is - the shape of his mouth tends to suggest he shouted "blind" rather than "black" imho :shrug:

That argument would hold some weight had he come out and said 'I said blind, not black'. I would have given him the benefit of the doubt, had he originally used that as a defence. But he hasn't denied saying 'black'. In fact if his media quotes are to be believed, his defence seems to be that what he was saying was a question or denial along the lines of - 'Oi, Anton, do you think I called you a black c**t?' or 'Oi, Anton, I never said you were a black c**t'.

The suggestion that he may have said 'blind' rather than 'black' seems to exist solely in football forums, and certainly doesn't come from John Terry himself. If he had indeed said 'blind' surely he would be shouting that explanation from the rooftops, as it is a rather more convenient get-out than the clumsy explanation he has already given?

 

[moribee]

Very sad as this thread has been hi jacked by people obsessed with skin color,Terry haters and guilt trippers. Looked at video and how anyone can tell what if said is beyond me and An now looking for the video that shows what Ferdinand said.

 

[Banana]

Very sad as this thread has been hi jacked by people obsessed with skin color,Terry haters and guilt trippers. Looked at video and how anyone can tell what if said is beyond me and An now looking for the video that shows what Ferdinand said.

Can we let the court decide when the time comes.

You obviously feel very passionately about this subject mori as 26 out of the last 60 posts (something like 40%) are from you. Slow down old chap.

 

[JTofBFC]

Haha something slightly ironic in someone who has posted 26 out of 60 replies on a thread claiming it has been hijacked.

'hey who posted on my thread'

Ferdinand in the dock too,anyone would think he was QPR !

 

[moribee]

Does spontaneous response syndrome count. Yes without doubt Ferdinand should be in dock too. It takes two to tango as they say at my dance classes plus he plays for them.

 

[detours]

Does spontaneous response syndrome count. Yes without doubt Ferdinand should be in dock too. It takes two to tango as they say at my dance classes plus he plays for them.

Riiiiiiight... so a player who was racially abused should be facing charges too? For what exactly?

Let's start charging victims of assault too, as like you say it takes two to tango. It's political correctness gone mad!!!

 

[sonofabee]

We don't know that he did call him that at the moment . But what is missing in this is what Ferdinand said to Terry. It was a flare up which lasted 10-15 seconds? Ferdinand isn't even black which begs another question of visual proof. Bit like calling someone a bald **** when they still have hair left on the side of their heads. Also begs the question when is a gypo not a gypo. More pertinent is questioning Terrys ability to be a cool leader. Which I had a pound do, every time I have heard Lewington called a ginger **** or his parentage questioned.

It's fairly common knowledge and been on various websites that before the "b**** c***" bit, which Ferdinand didn't actually hear btw, the two had a spat when Terry accused Ferdinand of going over too easily.
I read that Terry attempted to haul Ferdinand to his feet telling him to stop behaving like a c***. Apparently Ferdinands retort heard by several players was " Behaving like a c*** is shagging your mates missus"

Terry then lost the plot, allegedly

 

[moribee]

Riiiiiiight... so a player who was racially abused should be facing charges too? For what exactly?

Let's start charging victims of assault too, as like you say it takes two to tango. It's political correctness gone mad!!!

You got it. Puts the whole charade into context.

 

[sonofabee]

....looks like he says black to me.
Terry's mouth makes the same shape at the end of "black" and at the start of "c**t"

The hard "c" sound,

He even admitted using the term "black c**t" after the game.


He should admit it, apologise, take his punishment and move on.
He's no more racist than the majority of us - but thinks he is above the law - which is a worse attribute.

Spot on Smiffy, I agree with you and Joey Barton on this one - Terry has been ill advised and it is clear he believes he's untouchable.
I don't think he's a racist, I think he's a low life hypocrite who deserves all he gets which I fear will be a slap on the wrist and a fine that he'll pay out of his end of evening shrapnel.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

So many millions of words about name calling. Could they not get detention and a week ban from play time? Ridiculous over excitement.

 

[rebus]

So many millions of words about name calling. Could they not get detention and a week ban from play time? Ridiculous over excitement.

You think racist remarks are just name calling? Surprised at that coming from you.

 

[Herbert]

its a joke the whole thing is being left til after the Euros,should be over and done with by then,now it will be all we see throughout the tournament.Its going to get pathetic from both sides of the argument too when your going to get the likes of Rio Ferdinand over doing it aswell to make points

 

[Les Beeavinu]

You think racist remarks are just name calling? Surprised at that coming from you.

Do I think that some arsehole with previous is headline news when there's far more injustices and heartache in the world to worry about you mean?

 

[rebus]

Do I think that some arsehole with previous is headline news when there's far more injustices and heartache in the world to worry about you mean?

That argument could apply to any given newspaper or media outlet to most daily news items.

You still think his alleged comments are simply name calling? Perhaps attitudes are different in the home counties.

 

[moribee]

Thing is Mark,its not a racist remark. Ferdinand is not even black and even if he was its only stating the obvious in temper. The bad language in The workplace is more questionable and would require both players being suspended pending a prelim inquiry. Beano ya, far more offensive on a tweet this evening..uncalled for and unsolicited. So many more important things to worry about. I have black and Asian friends who think all this is highly amusing.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

I'm from London. Casual racism is an unpleasant part of this country, usually perpetrated by the ill-educated and those of a certain age.

I don't think John Terry is a racist and it would be interesting if the media really did care about racism and discrimination but I'm afraid that too many chickens would come home to roost if that were the case.

 

[Banana]

Thing is Mark,its not a racist remark. Ferdinand is not even black and even if he was its only stating the obvious in temper. The bad language in The workplace is more questionable and would require both players being suspended pending a prelim inquiry. Beano ya, far more offensive on a tweet this evening..uncalled for and unsolicited. So many more important things to worry about. I have black and Asian friends who think all this is highly amusing.

How may times do you have to make the same point? There's only so much I can take of reading the same thing. Do you think we are all goldfish here and forget what you said in every single one of your most recent 500 posts?

Can you take the dog for a walk or something and get the rest of us a day off?

 

[moribee]

Ok but the point about Beans tweet earlier is valid. Five dogs and they had a good run out this afternoon. Ugh, game is boring.

 

[detours]

Thing is Mark,its not a racist remark. Ferdinand is not even black and even if he was its only stating the obvious in temper.

Then John Terry could call an Indian player a 'pakistani c**t'. By your idiotic logic it wouldn't be racist, just a mislabelled description. What a joke you are if you believe that is the case.

 

[JTofBFC]

Ok but the point about Beans tweet earlier is valid. Five dogs and they had a good run out this afternoon. Ugh, game is boring.

What has Marcus the ex QPR player said to upset you. I can't see anything on his twitter account that is offensive?

 

[moribee]

mbean4 RT @Vitu_E: The fact that someone as ugly as Spearing is allowed even to walk on the same turf as Niko Krancjar is exactly what's wrong ... Doesn't upset me but presume would be viewed as insulting,unprovoked and unsolicited.

 

[JTofBFC]

Think it was a retweet for starters Which means he just repeated what someone else said! Apart from that it sounds like a fairly jocular comment presumably originally made by a spurs fan. It was actually originally tweeted by a sports journalist.

Can't think why you would want to pick that out. Oh yeh I forgot he's ex QPR.

 

[bees66]

mbean4 RT @Vitu_E: The fact that someone as ugly as Spearing is allowed even to walk on the same turf as Niko Krancjar is exactly what's wrong ... Doesn't upset me but presume would be viewed as insulting,unprovoked and unsolicited.

seriously you need to get out or have a shag.... Spearing is more uglier than Rooney..

 

[BeeHomeSoon]

mbean4 RT @Vitu_E: The fact that someone as ugly as Spearing is allowed even to walk on the same turf as Niko Krancjar is exactly what's wrong ... Doesn't upset me but presume would be viewed as insulting,unprovoked and unsolicited.

Good job he didnt make a comment on his height. Judging by your posts on this thread I think that would have sent you into meltdown

 

[moribee]

Good job he didnt make a comment on his height. Judging by your posts on this thread I think that would have sent you into meltdown

Very true,if rules are made they apply across the board and for all. So silly isn't it. BTW, I have no problem with Marcus at all,he is one of ours.

 

[moribee]

Then John Terry could call an Indian player a 'pakistani c**t'. By your idiotic logic it wouldn't be racist, just a mislabelled description. What a joke you are if you believe that is the case.

An not allowed by the moderator to respond but think you getting your Indians and Pakistan's muddled. They are two different countries with predominantly different religions.

 

[moribee]

Mind you the Indians tell some great jokes about The Pakistanis among them Mohammed being the third most popular name in Bradford. ,I didn't get it but a Pakistani I work with was in stitches.

 

[2826 claire]

An not allowed by the moderator to respond but think you getting your Indians and Pakistan's muddled. They are two different countries with predominantly different religions.

I think you're missing the point. You earlier said that because Ferdinand isn't 'black' the comment could not be considered racist as it was an incorrect statement. Therefore, by your logic if he called an Indian 'p_cki' by virtue of being factually incorrect it could not be considered a racist comment. I think the poster was well aware that they're 2 different countries but, that you are unable to follow your own train of logic is a bit worrying.

That you see absolutely no difference between different colours is admirable, however by adding the word black (allegedly) to his insult of c**t he has differentiated on the basis of skin colour and that is racist. If he wanted to merely insult there was no need to refer to his colour. I would expect sanctions against any black player who called someone a white c**t. Equally racist in my opinion but not the case here.

 

[oldgreenfordian]

I can't think of a definitive reply to this thread - and I think that this reflects the complexity of the case.
It's far too easy to tar people with the racist brush, and equally to cast others as yoghurt knitters.
I generally regard myself as a person of good will, but I have difficulty in condemning or supporting either side in this argument, since I understand that people of good intentions can come from either side of the debate.

Rip me to shreads, take me down.

 

[Carri Bee Un]

I feel for you. I too am struggling to coax any sort of opinion other than a general distaste for John Terry ever since that absolutely disgusting no-show at the Surbiton snake shop.

 

[nocoat]

Like

 

[moribee]

I think you're missing the point. You earlier said that because Ferdinand isn't 'black' the comment could not be considered racist as it was an incorrect statement. Therefore, by your logic if he called an Indian 'p_cki' by virtue of being factually incorrect it could not be considered a racist comment. I think the poster was well aware that they're 2 different countries but, that you are unable to follow your own train of logic is a bit worrying.

That you see absolutely no difference between different colours is admirable, however by adding the word black (allegedly) to his insult of c**t he has differentiated on the basis of skin colour and that is racist. If he wanted to merely insult there was no need to refer to his colour. I would expect sanctions against any black player who called someone a white c**t. Equally racist in my opinion but not the case here.

He is not black tho,he is also English like Terry. Just wonder if anyone will persecute Carol for repeatedly telling the ref to **** off last night.

 

[Porgey]

So you are saying it is not racist to call an Indian a "Paki ****" because he isn't from Pakistan?