Lessons to be learnt . . . (BU Statement)

[stedders]

Lessons to be learnt from the Southampton Ticket Fiasco

 

[beansbee]

" The review will be carried out by Jon Gosling, Joe Bourke and John Anderson who will report to the BU board meeting on 31 March. The BU board will then consider calling a Special General Meeting to address the concerns of BU members and any recommendations the BU board decides to make as a result of the review."

That's all a bit pacy for me - can we slowdown a bit

 

[PAZ]

Wow!

Glad I'm no longer a member.

 

[Bee H]

Bet the BFC Board are really sh1tting themselves at that ! lol lol lol

No mention of 'lies' on there which to my mind warranted immediate action ! :mad1:

BU, what on earth makes you think that the Board will listen to anything you say ? :scratch: You may as well dissolve, Ron's got it all sorted out and it don't matter what you say about having 58 Directors on the Board, Ronny Boy has 60% odd of the shares which wins any game !

To conclude my weeks postings as :beer: is calling me ;

Ron still runs the show

You can do what you like at BFC (including telling lies, damaging the credibility of the Club) and get away with it. It's a bit like having a diplomatic plate on a car !

The Board have shown absolutely no remorse for supporters (who pay their wages) suffering re Soton.

Bees United is a waste of time.

Anyone got anything to prove otherwise on the above, please feel free to post or PM me !

Good weekend everyone and three points tomorrow please Bees :bound:

 

[Hungerford Bee]

Well I suppose I can keep my money that normally goes into the bucket collection until after 31 Mar then.

 

[Edmundo]

Unbelievable. I thought it was only Eddie Rogers who had failed to spot the lies that came out of Griffin Park last week. It seems Bees United has overlooked them to. Is there a simple reason why no-one seems to be asking for the liar(s) to be held to account and disciplined?

I am a Brentford fan, Bees United member, season ticket holder and shirt sponsor. I put a lot of my money into BFC one way or another and I object in the strongest possible terms to being lied to. How many ways can I say that it is unacceptable.

I am seriously hacked off about this now. The people in positions of responsibility are putting absolutely everything that has been achieved on and off the field in jeopardy and they don't seem to realise how serious the situation is. The most respected member of the BU Board has resigned over this and yet they still don't get it. It's way beyond a joke.

 

[JoeBourke]

The BFC board of directors develops the clubs strategy and policies to be followed. It is the BFC board who will, recruit and appoint the commercial manager and the chief executive officer to implement its strategy and policies, allocate budgets and ultimately determine the staffing resources of the club in conjuction with the C.E.O.

The Bees United board (under the terms of it’s loan agreement with BFC, not the option) nominates members to the BFC board to represent supporters interests, manages fundraising and elections, makes representations on behalf of supporters and maintains a watching brief on the basis of consultative guidelines developed with the club board.

Altonwood are the majority shareholder and more importantly the guarantor of the clubs overdraft. They do not own the assets of BFC, nor do they have the unfettered right to dispose of Griffin Park or (as a consequence of a shareholders agreement) an entitlement to distribute any surplus proceeds that might arise on a future sale of G.P.

Altonwood in granting an option on their shares for £1 recognise that the shares have no real monetary value. They have also, by their actions, demonstrated no desire to be involved in the management of the club, now or in the future.

The principal issues for the club are largely unchanged. BFC as a going concern is reliant on the continued support of the bank and Altonwood as guarantors of the overdraft. As long as the club is able to trade solvently, there is no reason to expect that facilities will not be continued to be made available, regardless of whether Bees United has a continuing option over the shares or not. That is what is important to the bank, not who owns the shares.

The proceeds of the cup run this season, net of player bonuses and additional spend on the players budget, should allow the club to cover the projected shortfall arising from it’s interest costs in full.

The option on the Altonwood shares is important in giving Bees United standing, whereby it can engage in negotiations for development of a new stadium, based on future control of the football club.

The right to appoint directors to the BFC board is important in furnishing supporters with the means to ensure the continued financial viability of the club, as opposed to the old way of standing in the forecourt shouting at the windows. The announcement this week of the intent to appoint a Chief Executive is in direct response to recommendations made by the BU board to it's representatives on the BFC board.

The review to be undertaken by John Gosling, John Anderson and myself over the course of the next month will focus on how the relationship between the BU board and BFC board can be improved and strengthened and in particular how we can ensure that the actions of BU representatives on the BFC board are closely aligned with the needs and concerns of members and fans alike.

Any and all constructive suggestions are welcome. If it turns out that an EGM is needed to move forward, then that could well be the basis of our recommendations to the BU board.

 

[Edmundo]

Joe - we've been lied to and neither BFC nor BU have even acknowledged this fact, still less apologised for it, or sought out who is to blame for the lies. If you can't see the importance of this, I'm going to can my standing order.

 

[JoeBourke]

Ed,

It is this bit, if somewhat opaquely - management of public relations - that relates to the publication and subsequent withdrawal of statements, once found inaccurate, last week.

In the interim it is essential that ownership and accountability for the management of customer service and public relations is identified within the Club. Following its meeting yesterday evening the BU board has made further recommendations to the Club board.

 

[abee]

Joe,

Is the number of BU nominee directors capped at the present four. If not how much in additional loans have to be made to BFC before BU is able to nominate a further director.

If I understand it correctly BU has around £400k in loans to BFC.

The directors fees so far have been £25k for JM £100k for SC and AW and I'm not sure at what amount the right to a fourth director Graham Hall was triggered. So BU has if you like put in a further £275k since JM SC and AW joined the board but have only had one additional director.

Are my numbers correct???

Thank you

 

[JoeBourke]

abee,

The loan agreement stipulates up to four upon reaching £250k of unsecured lending. The ratiionale being £50k each for the first three (the old price) and £100k thereafter. There are no additional directorships available for further funding.

We have £80k of secured loan note funds in, with the only stipulation that this is repayable on 1 years notice or immediately should BU cease to have representation on the BU board. There are no directorships associated with the loan note fund agreement.

We have £325k of unsecured loans in at present. We are holding back further funding at the moment to keep a reserve for the close season. We could in theory withdraw £75k of these loans if cash flow allows, but would need to put it back in again quite soon, so are unlikely to do so.

 

[abee]

Thanks Joe.

So we are capped at the present four then. No hope for Bish..........

 

[Bigbee]

anyone know why Martin hasnt posted his Friday update today , small game tomorrow eh ?

Maybe he was fed up with reading bullshit whilst Rome burns ? Only my opinion , no one with a GCE or above in English need reply .Patronising ,is that spelt cowectly ?

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Thanks Joe.

So we are capped at the present four then. No hope for Bish..........

Semantics I know, but we are capped at four, please God not the CURRENT four (with the exception of AW).

This does mean of course I hope that once the BU whip is withdrawn from JM, SC and GH ("who?" I can still hear people asking) then BU are free to nominate three new directors.

It does mean this doesn't it Joe?

 

[Edmundo]

Ed,

It is this bit, if somewhat opaquely - management of public relations - that relates to the publication and subsequent withdrawal of statements, once found inaccurate, last week.

In the interim it is essential that ownership and accountability for the management of customer service and public relations is identified within the Club. Following its meeting yesterday evening the BU board has made further recommendations to the Club board.

Joe, I sincerely hope that the representations to the club on this point were considerably less oblique - or I suspect they will fail to get the point!

 

[Banana]

Ed,

It is this bit, if somewhat opaquely - management of public relations - that relates to the publication and subsequent withdrawal of statements, once found inaccurate, last week.

In the interim it is essential that ownership and accountability for the management of customer service and public relations is identified within the Club. Following its meeting yesterday evening the BU board has made further recommendations to the Club board.

Joe, why did BU choose the phrase "public relations" instead of "lies" or "untruths" etc.

Does anyone on the BU Board actually believe that BFC lied to us?

 

[Ace Face]

Joe

I agree with Edmundo, sometimes in fact most times it is best to be clear and concise when issuing PRs.

I would like to have seen simple language and a even simpler message.

"BU, after examining all the evidence in the public domain, does not accept that the football club acted in an honest and professional manner in the week leading up to the Southampton game. Therefore we owe it to all our members to ensure those responsible for behaving in such a dishonest and unprofessional manner are identified and then removed from their position at BFC"

Without spending my life on this issue, the club lied and then lied again, everybody knows it, but the powers that be think we are stoopid.

I can`t say I am disappointed because I was expecting a fudge.

 

[SamBee]

Ed,

It is this bit, if somewhat opaquely - management of public relations - that relates to the publication and subsequent withdrawal of statements, once found inaccurate, last week.

In the interim it is essential that ownership and accountability for the management of customer service and public relations is identified within the Club. Following its meeting yesterday evening the BU board has made further recommendations to the Club board.

what a loada sh*t, they have LIED, cant you get it ?

 

[SamBee]

anyone know why Martin hasnt posted his Friday update today , small game tomorrow eh ?

Maybe he was fed up with reading bullshit whilst Rome burns ? Only my opinion , no one with a GCE or above in English need reply .Patronising ,is that spelt cowectly ?

yeah where is ma's sermon today ?

 

[Russell]

In a month full of crap PR's, yet another crap PR falls from the sky, this time from Bees United, telling us there will be no chance of a "special meeting" before 1st April (shurely a bad joke hic) and only if BU thinks it's necessary. Given the notice period required which I expect will be at least 21 days, us plebs can expect nothing to happen much before the end of the season.

The time has come for root and branch surgery of both BU and Brentford FC. There is no doubt in my mind the people running both organisations are in way over their heads and couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. This is so typical of people who have become cosy in their positions of power and too complacent to do anything about it. You can have all the stuctures and organisation charts you like but if you have crap people in the job you may as well go whistle in the wind.

 

[Russell]

yeah where is ma's sermon today ?

I hear he's in the Vatican City, waiting to be appointed to a position suitable for his talents

 

[Ace Face]

The more you think about this statement and situation the more stupid and ridiculous it gets.

I am sure that the majority of BU Board members know that JM, SC, GH, ER, DW lied and misled the fans.

Did they bottle it when face to face with JM, SC and GH or did these business supremos convince then it was a slip on the keyboard?

Why is it that intelligent people like Joe can`t admit that their muckers lied and lied again?

 

[JoeBourke]

Ed/Ace Face,

If BU starts making public statements without being in possession of all the facts, we would be guilty of the same errors that were made last week and simply digging a deeper hole than has already been dug.

Bias has alreay sent a 38 page document to the club to deal with. We don't need to duplicate that effort, just let that process wind its way through.

BU is not on a witchhunt, we are focusing our attention on what needs to be done to ensure that mistakes are not repeated.

There is no way that everyone will agree what that will be, but this is a democrtatic organisation and it is the majority view that will prevail, even if that involves a compromise solution.

It's one member one vote and that is what will ultimately decide the outcome of these events.

 

[Ace Face]

Joe having read the evidence do you think the club lied?

 

[abee]

The time has come for root and branch surgery of both BU and Brentford FC. There is no doubt in my mind the people running both organisations are in way over their heads and couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. This is so typical of people who have become cosy in their positions of power and too complacent to do anything about it. You can have all the stuctures and organisation charts you like but if you have crap people in the job you may as well go whistle in the wind.

The real problem Russell is that most of the BU board and I imagine the vast majority of its members already have full time jobs and are not available to help handle or become involved in the day to day BFC management. It so happened that John Mac and Stephen Callen were both available immediately if you like and were parachuted in to effectively hit the ground running when Bees United assumed management responsibility some two years ago. It was convenient for everybody at the time and as I have persistently posted I do not believe that the structure has allowed them to do themselves justice. That of course is their problem and it was their call to take it on. I remember posting at the time that I wouldn't do it and I have considerably more experience than John and Stephen combined in running companies.

I cannot believe that they are happy with the way things are currently going and they may have got away with last weeks events (up to but not including the incorrect statements on the official site) if other issues had been going their way. However Lionel Road has surely dragged on longer than they would have expected..........I well recall that when we were looking at re-financing options back in 2002 the expectations were for a new stadium in five years i.e. 2007 and I clearly recall Doug White talking about 2007 during a promotion in Stripes. Then we had the Griffin Park re-development hiccup and I suppose the ongoing uncertainties regarding whether or not the actual grant monies will still be available by the time the planning approval is granted. There comes a point in business when all of your swans seem to turn into geese and whilst you make your own luck to a great extent it comes back I believe to Bees United taking on an impossible hand back in 2003. We've argued this until we are blue in the face but we cannot turn back the clock.

I and others were actually trying to damp down expectations as I did not believe that they would be able to deliver within the timetable that they had set themselves but a series of what now seem to be overoptimistic statements and the demonizing of the critics led to what I would consider as an irrational exuberance in the BU membership and non partisan supporters that everything was going swimmingly and all would be wrapped up in the two year gestation period to the expiry of the option.

It is where we go from here that needs to be discussed and addressed and as we are now seemingly committed to appointing a new Commercial Manager as well as a CEO and also accommodating John Mac and Stephen Callen in paid positions then the potential overhead is looking alarmingly top heavy.

Based upon Joe's earlier posts then it is clear that he (and I take it Bees United) believe that having an experienced financial director on tap even if just part time is an essential prerequisite to having the confidence of the banks and I took it that he was talking about Stephen. Lets face it if some of these positions didn't exist we wouldn't be inclined to invent them and if any one of us was going back to the root and branch as you put it then the staffing structure, reporting lines and job descriptions would I suggest be considerably different to what we have today.

 

[Nurse Betty]

I have been searching in vain for my BU papers so can someone on here - Joe, perhaps you would be the best person - tell me how ordinary BU members can trigger an EGM? I don't think this should be a decision left solely in the hands of the BU Executive for the very reasons that have become clear over the past week. I don't want to wait for a 38-page BIAS dossier to work it's way through the system at GP. I want BU to hold an EGM NOW so that the BU Exec and members can get together to a) censure the present Board (fat lot of good that will do us but we may feel a bit better afterwards) and b) discuss how we want the management structure to look in future. If BU is a democractic organisation, shouldn't you and your colleagues be meeting with us, the members, now BEFORE you conduct a month-long investigation into the power relations between BU and the BFC Board? GPG posters are a self-selected group so how can you possibly know at the moment how BU members feel about the recent issues and the current Club structure?

 

[PAZ]

As per the BU Constitution:

32. All general meetings other than annual general meetings are called special general meetings and are to be convened by the Secretary either:

a. by order of the Society Board; or

b. if a written requisition signed (except where these Rules say otherwise) by not less than 20 members or 10% of the membership, whichever is the higher, is delivered to the Society’s registered office. The requisition must state the purpose for which the meeting is to be convened. If the Secretary is not within the United Kingdom or is unwilling to convene a general meeting any Society Board member may call a general meeting.

33. A special general meeting called in response to a members’ requisition must be held within 28 days of the date on which the requisition is delivered to the registered office. The meeting is not to transact any business other than that set out in the requisition and the notice convening the meeting.

 

[Bigbee]

FFS ,theyre a bunch of Parish Councillors enjoying the " power " but theyre sh*t .Sorry Joe ,youre never had the " pleasure " to meet me but I hate your patronising tone ,so **** off ,sorry .BIAS ?
Bees Inept Again sh*te ?

Wheres Martin ? A follow on from the books , JM wanted to keep him but " Who cares wheres Wally goes lets hope its miles away "

 

[abee]

GPG posters are a self-selected group so how can you possibly know at the moment how BU members feel about the recent issues and the current Club structure?

Good call.

When probably more than 70% of Bees adult supporters can't be bothered to join Bees United and only what 12% maybe have a standing order then my guess is that possibly only 30% of the fans even know there has been a Chairmans statement on recent events let alone read it.

 

[JoeBourke]

Ace Face,

It is a bit like asking if Tony Blair really believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. There were too many people involved, so we will probably never know.

I know it was a chaotic week with no effective control over the public statements that were being made or checking of facts. Was there a wilful intent to mislead fans - probably not. Was their exagerration to bring pressure on Southampton and the FA to assist in recovering the sitution - it looks like it.

Is BU in a position to make a judgement of who was responsible one way or the other - No.

Do BU want to add to the problem by making unsubstantiated assertions - No.

BU has taken the only only reasonable course of action available to it, in making recommendations to the club, that it immediately implement policies to ensure that such a sequence of events cannot reoccur and ensure that a single director takes ultimate responsibility for this area of the clubs activities.

 

[Bigbee]

Ace Face,

It is a bit like asking if Tony Blair really believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. There were too many people involved, so we will probably never know.

I know it was a chaotic week with no effective control over the public statements that were being made or checking of facts. Was there a wilful intent to mislead fans - probably not. Was their exagerration to bring pressure on Southampton and the FA to assist in recovering the sitution - it looks like it.

Is BU in a position to make a judgement of who was responsible one way or the other - No.

Do BU want to add to the problem by making unsubstantiated assertions - No.

BU has taken the only only reasonable course of action available to it, in making recommendations to the club, that it immediately implement policies to ensure that such a sequence of events cannot reoccur and ensure that a single director takes ultimate responsibility for this area of the clubs activities.

GO ,the club has no time for you ,you were elected ? LLLLLLLLLLLLAAAARY BAAAA must of been out in force .Listen to me , your the first out " mate "

YOU SUPPORT LIARS ,END OF

 

[PAZ]

Bull sh*t John Mac does not know who was/is responsible.

With your ludicrous current structure of having BU board members concurrently on the BFC board there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for not finding out who exactly did what.

 

[SamBee]

Is BU in a position to make a judgement of who was responsible one way or the other - No.

used to read your posts pal but your being ****ing annoying now withyour sh*t

 

[JoeBourke]

Bigbee,

Sorry to come across as patronsing but at the end of the day nothing gets done by just slagging all and sundry off - somebody has to come up with real answers.

I imagine most of the BU board are feeling pretty worn out and a few would'nt mine jacking it in, leaving it to others and just watching the football. They stick with it because they believe in it, as the way to keep this club together for the future - simple as that.

You might not give a monkeys and why should you - but I respect them for it and the time and effort they have put in for this club.

 

[PAZ]

GO ,the club has no time for you ,you were elected ? LLLLLLLLLLLLAAAARY BAAAA must of been out in force .Listen to me , your the first out " mate "

YOU SUPPORT LIARS ,END OF

You're picking on the wrong man, Bigbee.

How many others in prominent roles in BU have had/would have the decency to do their utmost to talk about this with us, and in public forum?

The answer is none of them.

Joe is a good guy in all this, and one of the few with an actual brain (and a good one too, having met him). Regardless of what he believes, you can't expect him to be totally unprofessional and spout off about the rest of the BU board, can you?

Don't pick on one of the few with worth, and he's got a lot of it too.

Otherwise there would be nothing but a deafening silence.

 

[Banana]

I know it was a chaotic week with no effective control over the public statements that were being made or checking of facts

Aren't BU running the club!!!

Was there a wilful intent to mislead fans - probably not. Was their exagerration to bring pressure on Southampton and the FA to assist in recovering the sitution - it looks like it.

"Someone at Hounslow police station" to "Hampshire Police Force" - lie or exagerration Joe?

Is BU in a position to make a judgement of who was responsible one way or the other - No.

YES! 3 of the BU Board and another attendee are on the BU Board - 2 of them form most of the executive committee that runs the day-to-day affairs of the club. At least one of the other 2 was on the "board of whitewash"

Do BU want to add to the problem by making unsubstantiated assertions - No.

Agreed - so let BU make substantiated assertions.

BU has taken the only only reasonable course of action available to it,

Crap.

 

[JoeBourke]

Banana,

I would not call anyone a liar without being 100% sure of my grounds. The BIAS dossier is on their website and in the absence of any further detail, that is the basis on which judgements will have too be made. I am not in possession of any further information that can usefully add to what BIAS have complied.

 

[The Joker]

It is a bit like asking if Tony Blair really believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. There were too many people involved, so we will probably never know.

Considerably less individuals involved in our fiasco, I'd imagine.

Is BU in a position to make a judgement of who was responsible one way or the other - No.

As above, you only have to ask a handful of people, and as Banana points out some of these are on BU's board!

BU has taken the only only reasonable course of action available to it, in making recommendations to the club,

Can BU not recommend that stronger action (i.e. disciplinary action) is taken against those who have made mistakes and/or issued false statements?

 

[Banana]

Banana,

I would not call anyone a liar without being 100% sure of my grounds. The BIAS dossier is on their website and in the absence of any further detail, that is the basis on which judgements will have too be made. I am not in possession of any further information that can usefully add to what BIAS have complied.

Thanks for answering all of points in detail Joe

I'm sure I'm not alone is thinking that people cannot treat me like an idiot by lying to me. Those that refuse to condemn those the do so - well, I'm losing respect for them. Whatever the reason - lies cannot be condoned.

If you think it's "exagerration" and that is the view of the BU Board (or least some members) then the trust is finished. Make no mistake the EGM will make the trust stronger - it will damage it for a long, long, long, long time.

 

[Edmundo]

Joe, the bottom line is that people at the club put out statements where they were more concerned with covering their own arses, or making themselves look good than they were with telling the truth, or even having the humility to admit to serious errors of judgement.

That's lying in my book, truly it is. I don't want these people having anything to do with running Brentford FC. And the longer they go on pretending that it doesn't really matter, the madder I get about it. Rome is ablaze!

 

[Luton Bee]

Ace Face,

It is a bit like asking if Tony Blair really believed that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. There were too many people involved, so we will probably never know.

I know it was a chaotic week with no effective control over the public statements that were being made or checking of facts. Was there a wilful intent to mislead fans - probably not. Was their exagerration to bring pressure on Southampton and the FA to assist in recovering the sitution - it looks like it.

Is BU in a position to make a judgement of who was responsible one way or the other - No.

Do BU want to add to the problem by making unsubstantiated assertions - No.

BU has taken the only only reasonable course of action available to it, in making recommendations to the club, that it immediately implement policies to ensure that such a sequence of events cannot reoccur and ensure that a single director takes ultimate responsibility for this area of the clubs activities.

Joe

Any credability you once had has just vanished with this complete and utter rubbish.

 

[Mr Cynical]

Good call.

When probably more than 70% of Bees adult supporters can't be bothered to join Bees United and only what 12% maybe have a standing order then my guess is that possibly only 30% of the fans even know there has been a Chairmans statement on recent events let alone read it.

In which case, what percentage of fans are posting on the GPG wanting resignations?

 

[CJC]

It's unfair to ask Joe to call people he comes into contact with far more often than anyone else on here liars. I would have thought evidence would be easy to come by though to see who actually issued the statements, presumably we can look at all staff email and CCTV/phone recordings in the office? Or is that hoping too much that we don't monitor the building and communications?

 

[abee]

In which case, what percentage of fans are posting on the GPG wanting resignations?

Erm 341.71% or 4.417 times more than those who do not want resignations as far as I can see.

 

[JANORAK]

When probably more than 70% of Bees adult supporters can't be bothered to join Bees United and only what 12% maybe have a standing order then my guess is that possibly only 30% of the fans even know there has been a Chairmans statement on recent events let alone read it.

Would be surprised if it's not carried in full in the Match Programme today. I believe it's still the only direct contact that most supporters have with the club, albeit once a fortnight, usually. Maybe the local rags have found space this week, in the absence of MA's gardening analogies...

I predict some lively discussion amongst the crowd this pm.....

 

[longdistancebee]

Bigbee,

Sorry to come across as patronsing but at the end of the day nothing gets done by just slagging all and sundry off - somebody has to come up with real answers.

I imagine most of the BU board are feeling pretty worn out and a few would'nt mine jacking it in, leaving it to others and just watching the football. They stick with it because they believe in it, as the way to keep this club together for the future - simple as that.

You might not give a monkeys and why should you - but I respect them for it and the time and effort they have put in for this club.

Its Saturday morning and I've nothing to do before the game so lets annoy some GPGers....

As I have suggested before, and as Joe Bourke indicates above, nothing, or very little, is achieved by mindless slagging. The venom and bile directed at the Board may well be justified - there are many others (some of whom who will disagree with this post...) who know what goes on in and around the club better than I - but as I have said before:

we should not do our dirty washing in public (ie., the GPG);

having been a Director of companies, i know too well that often there are things that happen which for various reasons (often confidentiality of some sort, and normally Contract) that simply cannot go into the public domain, even though they would shed totally different lights on matters;

and lastly:

if we go on like this with such vicious in-fighting, we will lose MA. Right now he is hot property and his agent is probably getting 2 or 3 serious calls a week, and I worry that if he sees all this dissent, forecourt demonstrations, etc, he will be off.

So you lot, put aside your personal feuds, work on your goals quietly and behind the scenes, and for Pete's sake lets enjoy the football, which why we are here in the first place.

Oh yes, and I DO agree with much of what you say, but I just dont support the kamikaze approach you seem to want to adopt.

 

[christom]

Joe, have read your postings with interest but are not the gang of 4 only in their position due to sponsorship from Bees Utd, if so then ipso facto they are answerable to Bees Utd and following from there need to explain how they can justify te actions and lies that have come from the club.

Bees Utd have the power to refuse further funding and perhaps this offers the best form of leverage to get the directors to face their responsibilties. I have no doubt that decisions were initialy made, wrongly, with the best of intentions, however the subsequent lies eminating from the club cannot be excused and therefore at the least I would expect Bees Utd to be calling for the gang of 4 to answer to them and explain tyhemselves now rather than later.

Idf Bees Utd have not got the bottle for this then quite frankly any future hopes of a supporters trust run club are just so much pie in the sky.i

 

[Nurse Betty]

OK, you posted the bait, I am biting.

Doing your dirty washing in public is part and parcel of being a democractic organisation and free speech. If you seriously think that the world and her husband wouldn't have known about the ticketing fiascos and other issues at BFC if it wasn't for GPG, you must be on something. As we are in a such a powerless position regarding Board actions, public pressure is a perfectly legimitate avenue for us to use to get across our points.

I totally disagree that calling for an EGM or asking for BU and BIAS to do their bloody jobs is kamikaze. What is kamikaze is the status quo. I don't know for certain who has been in charge of ticketing at the Club this season but whoever it is needs to go. JM must bear some of the responsibility as he is top dog but clearly isn't managing his staff or ensuring that there is clarity in communications or organisation in general e.g. club shop. This isn't just about the Southampton debacle for me. It's about supporters being unable to gain access to GP because turnstile staff didn't know whether there was space left for them. As someone else memorably wrote on here, selling tickets to football matches is our core business. If we can't manage to do that professionally and smoothly, something is very wrong indeed.

I do not know JM personally but when I have heard him speak in public, I have been underwhelmed. I have no way of knowing whether he has the business acumen to negotiate with Ron Noades successfully at the end of May. I can only judge his performance on what I have heard in person and experienced via the Club. I am still underwhelmed.

 

[abee]

1).........we should not do our dirty washing in public (ie., the GPG);

2) ........having been a Director of companies, i know too well that often there are things that happen which for various reasons (often confidentiality of some sort, and normally Contract) that simply cannot go into the public domain, even though they would shed totally different lights on matters;

and lastly:

3)......... if we go on like this with such vicious in-fighting, we will lose MA. Right now he is hot property and his agent is probably getting 2 or 3 serious calls a week, and I worry that if he sees all this dissent, forecourt demonstrations, etc, he will be off.

1) That is fair enough but I have always regarded the GPG as an informal punch up between supporters where tongues are poked at each other and positions are exaggerated in order to get points across. It's a bit like the radio talk show hosts where their brief is as far as possible to always disagree with whoever is on the line at that moment in order to keep the interest going. However it depends upon your definition of "public" and I would have thought that the statements on two official web sites.........Bees United and BIAS are far more damaging and more likely to be read by uncommitted fans and casual football supporters than the GPG. For instance the last two statements from the Chairman of Bees United and posted in the public domain contain the following shafts........

.........this debacle
.........angry and frustrated (supporters)
.........justifiable anger and dismay
.........there can be no excuses for the mistakes made......
.........task of restoring the confidence of supporters
.........(Bees United) resolves that real changes are made at the Club.......

The BIAS letter in response to the Chairmans statement starts with a note on the "amazement and incredulity"........with which the Chairmans statement was received.

Now these comments from official fan groups reach a far wider audience than anything written on the GPG but I take it that you are not suggesting that they be removed in the interests of damage limitation.

2) Agreed

3) I would be very surprised if Martin Allen is as fragile as you seem to suggest. My own take is that as long as he is getting on with the board of directors personally and is satisfied that their ambitions match his own then forecourt demonstrations not directed at the team or MA personally would roll off his back.

 

[Nigel Brooks]

Is it too much to hope that a new CEO will be appointed sooner raher than later?

Any CEO worth his salt will be able to form a quick opinion of the competence of the management team charged with delivering the direction he sets.

Were I currently occupying one of those roles and 'delivering' in the manner we have all witnessed over the past months I would be very concerned for my continued employment prospects.

The CEO role is key to any progress. There are 'GPGers' with both broad and detailed competence in this area who have declared they do not want the job..

The club would be well served however if it allowed those fans with such experience to guide their selection of a new CEO.

Else I fear we shall see 'one of their own' appointed (always the easy option) with the likelihood that problems will persist at best and exacerbate at worst.