kevalutonbee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Seen to remember someone in here suggested that OGS might not be the Messiah.
Maybe they were right?
Maybe they were right?
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
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TW3Bee
Can We Play You Every Week
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Easy to say now, but they should have given him until the end of the season and then made a decision.
Infatuated Bees Alter Ego
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
The manager needs the opportunity to have a good clear out of over paid prema donnas
sonofabee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
There was absolutely no need to give him the job when they did and makes no sense why they did apart from being pressured by the media?
OGS was never going to go anywhere else and was appointed because they needed someone who wouldn’t rock the boat while they decided who they really wanted.
Now they have a problem because if they don’t qualify for European CL they won’t have a Manager who can attract the players who are likely to give them a chance of getting there in the near future. How are his credentials going to convince an ambitious, highly rated talent to join Utd and more scarily I think others there are more likely to leave than before.
It’s vital United win their last four games or they could face a couple of seasons of being in limbo unless they are brave and recognise they rushed into making the wrong appointment and change again.
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Not sure they could as they needed to start any planned clearout and purchases before season ends. Plenty will know they will not figure soon and effectively now in the can’t be bothered mode.
How did Fred cost £50m though??
wanderer paul
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Robbie Fowler the new manager of Brisbane Roar in the Aussie A-League. :grey:
Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
I think the key is not that he's not The Messiah, but that he's not Mourinho (though Jose might say they're the same thing).
For according to the classic Five Stages of Grief, the first is Denial.
First, MU's players were denying that they were the problem, lumping all the blame onto Mourinho, so that when he left, they immediately got a boost to their self-delusion. That was never going to last.
Now they seem to be at the second stage (Anger), if reports of dressing room rows are anything to go by.
If OGS can get them through that (unsure), then he's got a whole summer of Bargaining (literally) ahead.
Good luck to him with that, for I doubt he'll even get as far as Depression, never mind the ultimate Acceptance, before he's sacked again (or walks).
Meanwhile, as a non-MU fan, I'm enjoying all Five Stages of Laughing My Bollox Off simultaneously.
TheHairdresser
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Surely MU have a set-up that apes BFC, in terms of DoF, etc? Would permanently appointing Olly make any difference to the info gathering that surely has been made upto now for next season? What does Ed Woodward do if the axis of the club is actually OGS anyway.
I was surprised that OGS didn't back up his team when that question was put to him in the press room after the Everton defeat. It felt like his Mourinho moment, deflecting attention away from a gradual slide if form over 6wks. Thought it was a poor move from him.
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
The point is the players coming in will like to know what the current structure is not what it might be. They need to spend huge and also sell big, they are still looking to employ a DofF so also not having a manager and coaches in place will put many off, especially as the top players will have some big other options.
Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
I was having a drink and a chat with an old MU mate of mine over the w/e.
Their problem is quite simple: they're still trying to cope with the loss of Ferguson (blindingly obvious, I know, but true nonetheless).
Moyes was supposed to be 'Ferguson MkII'. He wasn't.
LVG was 'The Big Man' who could take on the job of transitioning from Ferguson to The (undefined) Future. He couldn't.
Mourinho was 'The Special One' who could magic up results regardless. He didn't.
And now OGS is 'Back To The Future'
They need to acknowledge that the glory days under Ferguson aren't going to come back, tear up the script/re-writes and start again.
Which considering the existing gap behind Liverpool and City (never mind the strides they're making), could take 5 or 6 years.
Which, curiously enough, is the time it took Ferguson to re-build the club completely after his arrival, his first title coming in his 6th full season in charge.
Their problem is quite simple: they're still trying to cope with the loss of Ferguson (blindingly obvious, I know, but true nonetheless).
Moyes was supposed to be 'Ferguson MkII'. He wasn't.
LVG was 'The Big Man' who could take on the job of transitioning from Ferguson to The (undefined) Future. He couldn't.
Mourinho was 'The Special One' who could magic up results regardless. He didn't.
And now OGS is 'Back To The Future'
They need to acknowledge that the glory days under Ferguson aren't going to come back, tear up the script/re-writes and start again.
Which considering the existing gap behind Liverpool and City (never mind the strides they're making), could take 5 or 6 years.
Which, curiously enough, is the time it took Ferguson to re-build the club completely after his arrival, his first title coming in his 6th full season in charge.
sonofabee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
It’s probably a more relevant comparison between Sir Matt and Rednose.
Sir Matt won his last league title in 1967, the European Cup final in 1968, he retired in 1969 and Utd didn’t win their next league title until 1993 and next European cup equivalent until 1999. 24 years between league title wins and 31 years between European Champions league wins.
Maybe United are facing a much longer transition than they ever expected trying to seamlessly adapt to such a huge change.
Liverpool last league title win was 29 seasons ago and counting having decided to change their successful strategy and boot room mentality to appoint from within and following the Shankly reign when a steady stream of his people and then their players followed insuring continuity and consistency.
Wonder if relying so much on one individual to deliver so much and for so long is the reason why such big names who have followed have flopped so badly.
wibs
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Buying Alexis Sanchez when he had clearly been a shadow of his former self when in his last season at Arsenal was a sign that something was very wrong in the club
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Agree with this, the post Busby era until Fergie got it right (just in time by all accounts) was a succession of nearly men trying to emulate the great man. Only Liverpool have historically got their succession right until they appointed Souness...
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
To be fair City wanted him too and they're flavour of the month for how they're run.
wibs
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
yes but they pulled out when it just seemed like no value
Personally I think the guy is just knackered,been playing for Chile every summer for years
Personally I think the guy is just knackered,been playing for Chile every summer for years
JANORAK
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
I thought they dropped out when they eventually got Mahrez from Leicester? Sanchez is injury prone and/or past it now.
On the theme of evolution after a long-established patriarch leaves a club - Emery has had a reasonable 1st season at Arsenal
Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
I can't quite decide which of them has fallen the furthest... lol
TheHairdresser
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Jury's out on Emery, chopping and changing key personnel and then making half-time substitutions after misjudginng the opposition well into his tenure isn't a good sign for a coach who is famed for the level of detail and preparation. Not expecting miracles with this squad but failing to tie down 4th spot given how poor Man U and Chelsea have been isn't a particularly good start. I have no idea why he signed Denis Suarez, baffling given his primary target in the window was a winger(s).
TW3Bee
Can We Play You Every Week
Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Agree it's too early to say.
But when you look at the mess even good managers have failed to overturn at Man U after Ferguson left, I don't think we should underestimate the scale of the task facing anyone who came in at Arsenal post-Wenger.
When you consider he had no prior knowledge of English football, I think he's shown promising signs, even if he obviously still has a lot to do. I think one thing which will stand to him is that the Board/Senior Management seemed to have done some preparation for AW's departure (unlike MU and Ferguson). And he has also inherited a decent(ish) squad, inc a reasonable midfield and attack, meaning he only has their woeful defence to sort out to make a big difference.
If the owner allows him to sign the players he wants this summer (huge "if" admittedly), then I think he can put a bit of distance between Arsenal and MU, also Chelsea if they lose Hazard and Sarri, and the transfer ban is upheld.
Though he's still got a way to go to catch Spurs, never mind Liverpool and M.City, who are streets ahead. Winning the Europa League, or nicking 4th place, would be a big help, due to the boost to finances and prestige from CL football.
jlove
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
kevalutonbee
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Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Yeah, but they're coming down with top-notch alternatives, with WBA cast-off Darren Moore being the latest in line:
"QPR director of football Les Ferdinand says Tim Sherwood remains a possible candidate to become the club's next manager, having already been interviewed along with Mark Warburton and Darren Moore."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11711/11702353/qpr-speak-to-tim-sherwood-mark-warburton-and-darren-moore-over-manager-role
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
It’s only for a few weeks. Unless he’s after top job there.
kevalutonbee
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Old B
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Ainsworth doing his best to get released from Wycombe so he can step in 
Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
I thought so too.
But that SKY report is only from Wednesday. And it follows a direct interview from Ferdinand, as opposed to the usual "sources close to etc"
mhead bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Probably me.
All he did was open the front door and let the kids out to play, man unt have a squad that should be top 4 whoever manages them and all he did was remove the dark cloud and he got immediate pay back. He may still be the man for the job but the big unknown was how he would be able to go up against Liverpool, Barca and Man city tactically and nobody knew. They would have known at the end of the season. To be fair they need 6 new defenders, 4 new midfielders and a new CF to compete against the big guns and get shot of Poghmba and Sanchez. Sanchez is just a dark cloud over the club and you can't buyuild a team around someone as inconstant as Pogba so just cut your losses on that one.
He was always going to hit a wall at some point and like TF at Brentford they should let it play out over the summer and into next season...not sure they will though.
Ealing Bee
Well-known member
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Have they?
Here is the list of their most regular 18 starters in the PL this season:
35 - De Gea
31 - Pogba
27 - Shaw
27 - Lindelof
26 - Matic
25 - Young
23 - Smalling
23 - Rashford
21 - Lukaku
18 - Lingard
18 - Martial
15 - Herrera
14 - Mata
13 - Fred
13 - Jones
11 - Dalot
8 - Sanchez
7 - McTominay
https://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=1724&teamTabs=stats
Realistically, how many of those would be regular starters for Liverpool, M.City or Spurs?
De Gea is a good shout, except that he's had his worst season ever at OT.
Pogba on a good day, certainly, but can you see Klopp, Pep or Poch tolerating all his bad days?
Rashford is a super player (imo), but could you see him ousting eg Salah, Aguero or Kane/Son?
The rest? Not even close.
Meanwhile, I've neither the time nor the knowledge to compare them with the Arsenal or Chelsea squads, but I'd guess that their squads are at least as strong as MU's, and very possibly better all round.
Indeed, if you look at the chasing pack (Wolves, Watford, Leicester, Everton etc), they've each got a few individuals who are as good as/better than their MU counterparts, even if they lack the same overall depth, or can't guarantee to hold onto their stars for very long.
P.S. I agree with all the criticisms of the rest of your post, but I just think that a crap/overpriced/overrated squad of players is an a major additional problem for whoever has to manage them.
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mhead bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Cos they all bloody do. Any player you have never heard of will cost 50M, anyone good is 100M. Fekkin mental. So many average players earning hundreds of million on the gravy train whilst schools and boys team are relying on parents donations to keep going.
mhead bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
The same old boreathon managers, so glad we don't buy off the stall they do. Warburton would do a good job there I reckon as long as they keep his hands away from the money and transfers.
Whenever a mid table side sacks theior manager you can short list the replacement yourself just by looking at the last 5 useless managers who were sacked for failing. It must be so depressing, we all knew ollie and Maclaren were going to be hopeless but the poor fans have to go through 8 -9 months or more each time before they get another glimpse of hope when the inevitable sacking arrives.
Ealing Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Agree that there are loads of severely overpriced/overrated players in the PL, esp at the badly managed clubs like MU.
But if you look at Wolves, for instance, they've bought some cracking players, yet their record fee is £30m(?) for Jiminez, no doubt down to their Portugese Agent pal. Leicester and Watford have also picked up some (relative) bargains. And Spurs have assembled an excellent squad with a record fee of £35m + add-ons for Sanchez, with Son and Sissoko next on around £30m(?)
TheHairdresser
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Eustace is obviously keeping the gilet warm for him in the unlikely scenario that his boyhood club Arsenal don't come in for him.......
TheHairdresser
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
The diff is TF won't primarily be assembling the XI players you advocate Man U need (I respectfully disagree), nor will our Dane be re-structuring the playing style and club ethos. Utd are a stuck record, and it doesn't help the almost pathological harking back to the Taggart/Class of 92 era. Gary Neville, a loyal servant that he was, isn't a part of this Utd and like a number of ex-players from this generation hasn't done enough in coaching to warrant the barbs flying at the current team.
I liken it to Arsenal's vintage, Vieira has taken that step and is improving OGS Nice this season after 2/3 yrs at New York City, following on from his initial apprenticeship before that at the Man City u18/21 academy. I'd listen to that fella talk as he's earning his corn, Tony Adams hasn't made a mark yet after a number of chances in management internationally. Maybe Neville should pitch up at Salford City, the owner seemed to think he was ready at his other club Valencia.
wibs
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sonofabee
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Plymouth Bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
No-one should be surprised that Derek Adams has been sacked by Plymouth Argyle today. After a terrible start to the season (following getting close to the Playoffs last season), Argyle pulled themselves away from the dropzone only for the wheels to completely fall off in the last few weeks. Yesterday, they got thumped 5-1 at Accrington (the Argyle goal was an OG) in front of a crowd that included 825 Argyle fans on an open terrace in pouring rain. It would have been bad enough in brilliant sunshine.
Argyle are home to Scunthorpe on Saturday. They have to win to have any chance of staying up - likewise Scunthorpe. Pity about Derek Adams who took Argyle up two seasons ago but he fell out with the local paper and their very long suffering football editor, banning them, and refused to speak to the media yesterday. The recent results indicated, sadly, that he didn't seem to have any way of turning things around. Ian Holloway, who left in very controversial circumstances when Argyle were in the Championship, is one of those being talked about as a successor. We'll see.
Here ends the bulletin from Plymouth!.
Argyle are home to Scunthorpe on Saturday. They have to win to have any chance of staying up - likewise Scunthorpe. Pity about Derek Adams who took Argyle up two seasons ago but he fell out with the local paper and their very long suffering football editor, banning them, and refused to speak to the media yesterday. The recent results indicated, sadly, that he didn't seem to have any way of turning things around. Ian Holloway, who left in very controversial circumstances when Argyle were in the Championship, is one of those being talked about as a successor. We'll see.
Here ends the bulletin from Plymouth!.
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the birds and the bees
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Accrington gave plymouth fans a free pint , downhill after that
JANORAK
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Didn’t they change ends at halftime then?
Rain in Accrington! Who’d have thought? I see they’ve still got the brown stripe up the middle of the pitch. What’s going on there? Is it a Public Bridle Way or something?
TW3Bee
Can We Play You Every Week
Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Sammy Moore at Concorde Rangers is an odd one https://www.echo-news.co.uk/sport/1...cord-rangers-after-ongoing-personal-problems/
mhead bee
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mhead bee
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
I read somewhere that Rio F is on the short list to become the new DoF at Man Unt. When you look at our DoF and what they do for the club you do wonder what qualifies him to do anything at Man Unt. You always get that nonsense trotted out about having contacts at certain clubs but does it really work like that, most clubs have a database of players being scouted and teams like Chelsea have 100 players out on loan to every club in the world, what does rio's "contacts" actually do for him. The same goes for his uncle at QPR.
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jlove
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Rio Ferdinand v. Phil Giles... that conjures up a vision of an interesting conversation (let alone with Rasmus Ankersen!).
IDontBeeLieveIt
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Managerial Thread 2018 / 2019
Even if he has 8 zillion great contacts...........if Man United want to buy a player do you even need contacts rather than just phoning the player's agent or club? They have the money and prestige (even if they're currently ropier than most seasons) to attract almost anyone if they want (and a contact is hardly going to change what matters, ie the money offered, what other rivals are offering, where the club is etc.)
mhead bee
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