Non-League Scouting Network (Split Thread)

[NorthamptonBee]

So you know that Mr Daish is guaranteed to give us success then? Is that why he is still with Ebbsfleet as opposed to being snapped up by Gillingham recently then?

That Gillingham boss seems to have steadied the ship, you are correct that there are some decent managers in that league. They probably know a decent player or two. George Boyd, McClean and CMS were all non league this time last year and they took us apart last week.

 

[Gee Bee]

George Boyd, McClean and CMS were all non league this time last year and they took us apart last week.

They all cost excess of £100K each too.
Anyone can spot the best players in the conference, it's spotting the not so good at first glance but have potential and snapped up for nothing that are harder to find.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

They all cost excess of £100K each too.
Anyone can spot the best players in the conference, it's spotting the not so good at first glance but have potential and snapped up for nothing that are harder to find.

The real successes would have been picking McLean when he was at Aldershot or Mackail-Smith when he was a youngster at St Albans - something we could be doing more of but are too risk adverse to try. The fact is, the Conference sides will probably have better non-league scouting networks than us.

 

[sonofabee]

That Gillingham boss seems to have steadied the ship, you are correct that there are some decent managers in that league. They probably know a decent player or two. George Boyd, McClean and CMS were all non league this time last year and they took us apart last week.

NB,

Not arguing your point but would bear in mind that the lads who have made an impact since arriving from non league haven't been overnight finds. Boyd, McClean, Kightly etc didn't get snapped up for nowt, by the time they were getting noticed their value was in six figures and wages higher than we could consider.

Still agree we need someone involved who has a network of contacts at all lower league levels as conference is probably too late by the time they get there.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

They all cost excess of £100K each too.
Anyone can spot the best players in the conference, it's spotting the not so good at first glance but have potential and snapped up for nothing that are harder to find.

I think you'll find that NLB highlighted Boyd as a 17 year old at Stevenage, you could see he was player even then. I'm not going to find the post but he put him up as someone Allen should buy at the start of his second full season and a few us suggested that he could play.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

How did I know everyone would mention their cost, we have people who highlight these players well before they get too expensive.

3 really notable posts were Nugent 18 year old at Bury who 8 months later went for 100k and then 6 million, Kightly who left for 25k and Boyd was a supersub at 17 for Stevenage. They were the times to look closely at them and all mentioned on here.

I'd imagine that NLB's friend who offered to help could list a player or two but why bother when Mackie and Thorpe are available. I travel to games with a bloke who scouted for Brentford during Perryman and Holder's reign. There are people about who can help.

 

[Gee Bee]

How did I know everyone would mention their cost, we have people who highlight these players well before they get too expensive.

3 really notable posts were Nugent 18 year old at Bury who 8 months later went for 100k and then 6 million, Kightly who left for 25k and Boyd was a supersub at 17 for Stevenage. They were the times to look closely at them and all mentioned on here.

I agree but you were talking about players in the Peterboro side last week. Grays, Dagenham & Stevenage spotted them earlier. Which in effect was my point, you need to spot them when they are free. Peterboro didn't.
I think I even mentioned Kightley, when he was being released by Southend and also passed comment on Blackett soon after Dagenham had just signed him.
I would also add soem of our fans are very quick to dismiss players as hopeless after a couple of bad games, yet are prepared to give certain youth players 40 games to show no signs of improvement, becuase they are apparently our future.
Lower than Conference level is where we should be concentrating our scouting network as well as Premier & Championship reserves & youths.
I would also not expect Butcher to head up that scouting network, it has to be done by someone with proven ability to spot potential & hav evast network of contacts at those levels.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

In all seriousness, the Directors of a club like ours should insist that a manager has a non-league scouting structure is in place. I'm doesn't seem like it is at Brentford.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

A very constructive thread.

We have decided that there are players out there and we need to widen our searching capability. NLB's post regarding his friend and his offer to the club really hit home, TB needs all the help he can get after being out of the english game for so long bearing in mind that the powers above are still backing him.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

A very constructive thread.

Not really - it's not as if anything is likely to change because of it. Wouldn't it be good if there was some way of asking the club directly about these kind of things. The BU Q and A won't deal with topics like this this and there doesn't appear to be any other way of questioning / making suggestions.

Too many business folk but not enough football people at Brentford.

 

[Gee Bee]

How about starting a non league scouting thread on here and posting it on to Butcher & Scott and cc Dickens in.
GPG could be the Brentford scouting network.

 

[VTG]

How about starting a non league scouting thread on here and posting it on to Butcher & Scott and cc Dickens in.
GPG could be the Brentford scouting network.

Coz this is a public forum so we'd essentially be the L1 and L2 scouting network for free.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Coz this is a public forum so we'd essentially be the L1 and L2 scouting network for free.

A minor issue to resolve I'm sure.

 

[sonofabee]

A very constructive thread.

We have decided that there are players out there and we need to widen our searching capability. NLB's post regarding his friend and his offer to the club really hit home, TB needs all the help he can get after being out of the english game for so long bearing in mind that the powers above are still backing him.

Agree 100%, I know that in MA's reign people suggesting names were dismissed and made to feel like they were interfering and it was old news.

I think that anybody who watches non league football or has contacts and sees anybody better than we have should be encouraged to contact someone at the club who WILL follow up.

I posted before that it seems ludicrous that no one takes up NLB's contact although would have thought that BeeH would be a good place to start.

After all it's supposed to be a club run by the fans and it would appear an obvious way where we can contribute.

 

[Simon C]

I think you'll find that NLB highlighted Boyd as a 17 year old at Stevenage, you could see he was player even then. I'm not going to find the post but he put him up as someone Allen should buy at the start of his second full season and a few us suggested that he could play.

Was that at the same time we bought DJ?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

The Club and BU need to identify key areas where people can volunteer to help us with their skills and expertise.

I'm not sure this is what they had in mind when that statement was made.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

The Club and BU need to identify key areas where people can volunteer to help us with their skills and expertise.

I'm not sure this is what they had in mind when that statement was made.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Was that at the same time we bought DJ?

Of course it was and doesn't that highlight where this thread has gone!
It started out as a dig at Dyke and then a pair of keyboard warriors went for me and now we all agree that there is life in the non-leagues and we should be looking at them. Thanks for the final nail.

I don't know about you but when TB said he knew nothing about our leagues or the players involved in it I got a slightly itchy ringpiece, now having a manager with that experience and/or lower non-league knowledge would be sort of essentail IMO.

 

[KD]

Les can we change the title of this thread as others may be interested in this theme of a scouting network. Maybe this could be our version of last year's Fighting Chance? Something for us to feel involved in rather that just standing on the sidelines watching our decline.

I know we've been down this route before but I think the conditions are lining up to have another stab. At the fans forum KD definitely requested help so we can use that as leverage. TB made reference to he and AS having to do all the scouting, that they had some people around the country they use and that it requires two games watched before TB/AS go along and make a decision on someone. There is the potential money in January that surely could be used to take some non league gambles. NLB obviously has some skill and a mate in this area.......

 

[sonofabee]

Of course it was and doesn't that highlight where this thread has gone!
It started out as a dig at Dyke and then a pair of keyboard warriors went for me and now we all agree that there is life in the non-leagues and we should be looking at them. Thanks for the final nail.

I don't know about you but when TB said he knew nothing about our leagues or the players involved in it I got a slightly itchy ringpiece, now having a manager with that experience and/or lower non-league knowledge would be sort of essentail IMO.

NB,

Fair do's you're right to be annoyed but the one positive thing is that there will always be young talented players coming through the rankss of non league who are good enough for leagues 1 + 2 at worst.

No point now in looking back on those we've missed, I can recall Friday, Regis, Devonshire, Ferdinand all being rejected by Brentford at non league level and I'm sure I've missed lots of others.

Now we just have lobby someone to make sure that there is a system in place where people can offer names and info about players they have seen.

My suggestion to ensure we avoid time wasters and people jumping on the bandwagon of much touted names would involve applying for a form that we can be filled in with details of player, position, games watched and what you think his strengths. Club can then start to sift through and make enquiries to the clubs and gauge whether to follow up, or get back to the person who supplied the lead and ask them to continue to monitor.

That way we must increase the chances of finding another Sam Sodje or DJ.

 

[Simon C]

I don't know about you but when TB said he knew nothing about our leagues or the players involved in it I got a slightly itchy ringpiece, now having a manager with that experience and/or lower non-league knowledge would be sort of essentail IMO.

He said at the forum himself and Scott are doing all the scouting which at least gets him up to speed on the non-league scene. He was reported as keeping tabs on that boxer at Aylesbury. The problem is when the management team leave all their scouting reports go with them and the new boss has to rely on their own knowledge which is why Butcher started at a disadvantage. If we have our own scouting network this problem goes away and we have continuity.

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Les can we change the title of this thread as others may be interested in this theme of a scouting network. Maybe this could be our version of last year's Fighting Chance? Something for us to feel involved in rather that just standing on the sidelines watching our decline.

I know we've been down this route before but I think the conditions are lining up to have another stab. At the fans forum KD definitely requested help so we can use that as leverage. TB made reference to he and AS having to do all the scouting, that they had some people around the country they use and that it requires two games watched before TB/AS go along and make a decision on someone. There is the potential money in January that surely could be used to take some non league gambles. NLB obviously has some skill and a mate in this area.......

I agree - I'll sort something out. Give me a few minutes.

 

[Gee Bee]

He said at the forum himself and Scott are doing all the scouting which at least gets him up to speed on the non-league scene.

"With no Chief Scout, Andy & I do the scouting. We have good contacts around the country, watch plenty of games, and talk regularly to Premiership and Championship clubs"

This is what was reported on the Fans forum thread. Which suggests they may also use their good contacts. Who would recommend who they should then look at?

 

[Simon C]

"With no Chief Scout, Andy & I do the scouting. We have good contacts around the country, watch plenty of games, and talk regularly to Premiership and Championship clubs"

This is what was reported on the Fans forum thread. Which suggests they may also use their good contacts. Who would recommend who they should then look at?

Their good contacts or the clubs good contacts. I can guess the answer

 

[NorthamptonBee]

How have we had most success in the buying of players. For every Turner there is a Tillen and for every DJ there is a Townsley. I do think that released players from teams in our league or below have failed so I suppose the non-leaguers have been the most successful route in the past.

 

[Mr Cynical]

Lest we forget, Andy Scott was given the assistant's job because of his 'encyclopedic' knowledge of the non-league game.......

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Lest we forget, Andy Scott was given the assistant's job because of his 'encyclopedic' knowledge of the non-league game.......

Now if I said that I'd be told off. I think we can file your statement in the box of sh*t file where it belongs.

 

[Old B]

Could BFC hold "open days" once a month at the training ground (daytime) or a local sports centre (evening) where anyone desperate enough to break into "pro-football" could turn up for a trial. They may get a lot of crap through the door but they may just find someone with the determination to make the breakthrough.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

Would there be anyone on the staff capable of spotting the rough diamond?

 

[ACbee]

Could BFC hold "open days" once a month at the training ground (daytime) or a local sports centre (evening) where anyone desperate enough to break into "pro-football" could turn up for a trial. They may get a lot of crap through the door but they may just find someone with the determination to make the breakthrough.

An interesting thought.

My employers in a sport other than football are inundated with letters and emails asking for trials from those above the age range of our academy system (19+). Probably only a small handful in 10 years have been picked up from some sort of trial system to play a game, and then from that I can only think of 1 off the top of my head who was signed full time, he had 3 or 4 years and has since retired, but did fairly well.

Question is would it be worth the staff's time and effort to pay for these type of sessions, when their time could be spent putting on sessions for those that are already on the payroll and under-performing, or watching other games. Also, if you look at the football icon programme, a similar idea to yours, the 1st winner Sam Hurrell is now without a club (someone correct me please if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's now with Chelsea).

I would go more down the lines of improving our current youth structure that we have. Why don't BFC run and manage a local junior league? All of the current local sides enter random leagues with no association to anyone, and scouts watch hours of football at random grounds trying to find a glimmer of talent. We probably then get the 4th or 5th tier of talent, after Chelsea, Fulham, Palace, QPR etc.

Invite the 10 best, most organised junior teams in the area into our league; they get an organised structure with good refs (who would obviously prefer doing their bit in a more controlled professionally-run league where there are restrictions on parents behaviour, the biggest problem in junior sport at the moment), and an exit route for their more talented kids into a pro club. As part of the agreement we get 1st pick of the players available to get into our squads. BFC run a few courses for the coaches at the clubs so that they get more ideas and some sort of career development, and then the standard of coaching improves. And as a result, we get better youngster into our system.

I'm sure that there are a couple of retired GPGers who would give up a couple of hours a week to co-ordinate fixtures and refs in exchange for a season ticket and a bit of Bees clothing? Any thoughts?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Invite the 10 best, most organised junior teams in the area into our league; they get an organised structure with good refs (who would obviously prefer doing their bit in a more controlled professionally-run league where there are restrictions on parents behaviour, the biggest problem in junior sport at the moment), and an exit route for their more talented kids into a pro club. As part of the agreement we get 1st pick of the players available to get into our squads. BFC run a few courses for the coaches at the clubs so that they get more ideas and some sort of career development, and then the standard of coaching improves. And as a result, we get better youngster into our system.

Chelsea have got that one sewn up already - happened at my son's club just this weekend who were invited for 6 weeks training at Chelsea's academy (not my son I hasten to add - he's not that good) and entry into an elite league.

Trawlering I think they call it and imo it's a very damaging practise because the chance of anyone being taken on is miniscule and yet it ruins the structure of the club they played for.

 

[ACbee]

I was going along the lines of BFC Junior League as an alternative to, say, the Hayes & District league or whatever it's called. The kids still get their weekly football, there is no promise of a contract or even a trial, but if somebody is good enough they get pulled out of club football in the same way that the kids do now if they get picked up by a pro club. If not, they continue to play and develop their football in the league week-in, week-out.

 

[Luton Bee]

They may get a lot of crap through the door

and sadly most of it would probably get a 2 year contract!

 

[beetee]

I don't know about you but when TB said he knew nothing about our leagues or the players involved in it I got a slightly itchy ringpiece, now having a manager with that experience and/or lower non-league knowledge would be sort of essentail IMO.

i agree with you 100%.although i didn't get an itchy ringpiece, my heart sank and i thought what the hell is going on.like you say that surely has to be one of the most important criteria in getting the job.then i thought well maybe Butcher will bring a few players from Scotland, and then maybe Scott has this area covered.well i guess he did bring someone from Scotland..Brown and Scott brought Mackie! Oh Happy Days!
with regards to the fans recommending players i think we would need to narrow it down to the few people on here who seem to know what they are talking about.I think if you just take anyones recommendation there would be too many leads to follow up and it just wouldn't work.

 

[sonofabee]

i agree with you 100%.although i didn't get an itchy ringpiece, my heart sank and i thought what the hell is going on.like you say that surely has to be one of the most important criteria in getting the job.then i thought well maybe Butcher will bring a few players from Scotland, and then maybe Scott has this area covered.well i guess he did bring someone from Scotland..Brown and Scott brought Mackie! Oh Happy Days!
with regards to the fans recommending players i think we would need to narrow it down to the few people on here who seem to know what they are talking about.I think if you just take anyones recommendation there would be too many leads to follow up and it just wouldn't work.

Agreed which is why you invite everyone who is keen and thinks they know something or someone to commit to completing a templated form which would require time and effort but provide the club with a mini dossier to start with.

Someone at the club would be designated to screen the completed forms and decide on next steps and acknowledge the person who completed.

Categories for example:

1) Priority

New name, acceptable standard of football, Key position, i.e. goalscorer. young fit keeper, ball playing midfielder. Immediate follow up to source to ask more questions

2) NFA at this time as already watched by BFC - ask contact to continue to monitor and update if form continues

2) Possible interest, little known as new contact from unlnown source, phone call to club involved

It's only an idea but people should be encouraged to get involved. Many people are armchair experts but equally there is nothing wrong with the club asking their current network to cast their eye over a new contact. If people start finding new reasonable prospects, they can be invited on in amore formal capacity and be acknowledged in the programme or introduced on the pitch or similar.

All in all, if there was astructured system in place it would be a better way of increasing opportunities than has happened of late. Currently we appear to be fishing around for others rejects and never wasses from league clubs.
and while they may not be experts,

 

[SpiderBee]

Agree 100%, I know that in MA's reign people suggesting names were dismissed and made to feel like they were interfering and it was old news.

I think that anybody who watches non league football or has contacts and sees anybody better than we have should be encouraged to contact someone at the club who WILL follow up.

I posted before that it seems ludicrous that no one takes up NLB's contact although would have thought that BeeH would be a good place to start.

After all it's supposed to be a club run by the fans and it would appear an obvious way where we can contribute.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

 

[hayes bee]

i contacted the club along while ago about dj cambell and shock horror no one got back

 

[VTG]

I wouldn't surprise me if certain people think December 17th will account for our scouting quota for this season

The thing is, if the club's name is gradually being dragged through the dirt and we piss people off like we did last season, word gets around and that will no doubt spread to anyone who might have scouted for us as a favour but would now rather let other South East teams such as MK or Leyton Orient know about the player instead for the sake of their own credibility.

 

[Gee Bee]

i contacted the club along while ago about dj cambell and shock horror no one got back

They signed him though , so thanks.
I doubt anyone but you had watched Yeadings FA cup exploits.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

They signed him though , so thanks.
I doubt anyone but you had watched Yeadings FA cup exploits.

That's the thing about DJ, everybody knew about him and only we seemed willing to take the chance.

 

[Gee Bee]

That's the thing about DJ, everybody knew about him and only we seemed willing to take the chance.

t'was strange. Although he had some bad times at Villa in the pro game originally, which may have put some off.

 

[sonofabee]

That's the thing about DJ, everybody knew about him and only we seemed willing to take the chance.

Lots of people in football knew of Campbell and many decide he was too wayward, fact.

Fortunately, MA wasn't worried about handling a strong character. He certainly wasn't put off by his rep, his apparent attitude, his appearance or some of his acquaintances and he took a very small gamble.

People with a dodgy past, but a hunger with a point to prove may well be strong characters but we need some on the pitch as this current lot are totally forgettable.

 

[VTG]

People with a dodgy past, but a hunger with a point to prove may well be strong characters but we need some on the pitch as this current lot are totally forgettable.

As long as none of them are called Jody Morris.

 

[sonofabee]

As long as none of them are called Jody Morris.

Deffo!
Fortunately I had no first hand knowledge of DJ so unfair to comment but that scrote Morris is a different story.

 

[VTG]

The difference is though, as you said, Allen could handle DJ. Given that he seems to think that the players are meant to motivate themselves before a match, I'm not sure Butcher could handle Arnold Palmer.

 

[oracle]

I have been informed by a friend of Stains Town GK - Shaun Allaway that Brentford have approached him this week for a move in Jan. Though other clubs also have. I wander if we have the pulling power in the lower leagues for this?

 

[RitchBee]

Chelsea have got that one sewn up already - happened at my son's club just this weekend who were invited for 6 weeks training at Chelsea's academy (not my son I hasten to add - he's not that good) and entry into an elite league.

Trawlering I think they call it and imo it's a very damaging practise because the chance of anyone being taken on is miniscule and yet it ruins the structure of the club they played for.

Locally, Luton do the same with boy's from all the local youth teams and MK Mongs are now moving in and doing the same. They have both approached my local team (TRY FC) and we have told then to bugger off

They seem to think that because they are 'big league clubs' the best boys would be better off with them. Thankfully our parents don't see it that way and their child is far better off with us.

 

[ACbee]

Locally, Luton do the same with boy's from all the local youth teams and MK Mongs are now moving in and doing the same. They have both approached my local team (TRY FC) and we have told then to bugger off

They seem to think that because they are 'big league clubs' the best boys would be better off with them. Thankfully our parents don't see it that way and their child is far better off with us.

Just interested to know the reasons why the parents think that they are better off with a local league club? Not criticising, just interested!

 

[shouldbee]

I have been informed by a friend of Stains Town GK - Shaun Allaway that Brentford have approached him this week for a move in Jan. Though other clubs also have. I wander if we have the pulling power in the lower leagues for this?

Just what we need to solve our goal scoring problems, but hey ho Butcher will probably play him at left back !

 

[SmiffyBee]

I have been informed by a friend of Stains Town GK - Shaun Allaway that Brentford have approached him this week for a move in Jan. Though other clubs also have. I wander if we have the pulling power in the lower leagues for this?

.........if in doubt...consult the oracle !...............

 

[SQUELCH]

I'd sooner have experience......

you win nothing with kids

"scouting network", quite ambigious that statement along with "our contacts with clubs" (on the fans forum thread somewhere) and so and so turned us down? why did they turn us down?

does make you wonder if they just concentrate the "scouting" on reserve league games rather than non league.