Saturday's crowd (split thread)
yep only 4308 Bees fans there to see it today.....the boys deserve more
Not quite.
Eight hundred season tickets holders didn't show.
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
- Thread starter abee
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Not quite.
Eight hundred season tickets holders didn't show.
SigiBee
Member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
799 actually Abee. Didn't use my ER Season Ticket today as I was the beneficiary of a Braemar C Block comp from a member of the family who singlehandedly tried to demolish the upper tier of the Wendy House late on. Never mind Gary.
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
So for the 4400 that did turn up:
1700 ST holders.
400ish comps.
900 Town pay on day.
1400 pay on day Bees fans.
Not much spare change there. This club will continue to loss significant amounts of money per week if this continues next season.
Hullbee
Wash your hands you filthy animals
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Tranmere, Yeovil and Hartelpool aren't exactly going to attract the glory boys back either
Still can't believe that we didn't get more than 10k for one of Norwich, Southampton, Millwal, Charlton this season
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Tranmere, Yeovil and Hartelpool aren't exactly going to attract the glory boys back either
Still can't believe that we didn't get more than 10k for one of Norwich, Southampton, Millwall, Charlton this season
We've broken seven thousand just three times Norwich, Leeds and Charlton and nine thousand just the once with Leeds.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Idea.Perhaps we should look at a way that doesn't price out 16-18 years olds?
Nice try but continue your bandwagon elsewhere.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
FACT!Nice try but continue your bandwagon elsewhere.
You can't see it and that scares me.
People in your position needs more open minds, I encouraged people to vote for you donks ago but your blinkered views over the past few years have made me look a fool.
We have a problem with crowd numbers, BU solution is ..."let's moan and put up figures after every home game!" Sorted.
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
You have a myopic view on this, which given the circumstances is not a surprise. My mind is completely open when it comes to admission prices. The club will continue to burn large amounts of cash but BIAS and you want to lower the prices, which would exacerbate the financial problems that the club has.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Quite the opposite mate, people don't turn up to GP, they haven't for years and won't next season.
Is it the recession (maybe but what about the 15 years before it), is it Fulham's success (no), Chelsea's success (no), are we sh*t (no) IMO. It is cheaper to get in at Fulham which is crap, that annoys me but who would want to go there? Everybody knows it is our prices, sadly the people that put the prices together are the only ones who don't.
BIAS and many more than me want to lower the prices, but you carry on thinking it's BIAS and me.
Is it the recession (maybe but what about the 15 years before it), is it Fulham's success (no), Chelsea's success (no), are we sh*t (no) IMO. It is cheaper to get in at Fulham which is crap, that annoys me but who would want to go there? Everybody knows it is our prices, sadly the people that put the prices together are the only ones who don't.
BIAS and many more than me want to lower the prices, but you carry on thinking it's BIAS and me.
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NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
I hope not, I won't go to away games that rip me and my lad off, I never have let that happen. Either I went or he went or neither of us when it was a pisstake (Gills, Walsall, Bradford etc), I know am faced with my own club taking the piss and have a big decision to make that I could do without. I've always thought it would be more healthy for him to go to Cobblers with his mates but selfishly showed him Brentford, it's too late know as he hates his local lot but a few away days with his mates would be better for him that a day out with his dad being ripped off methinks.
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Quite the opposite mate, people don't turn up to GP, they haven't for years and won't next season.
Is it the recession (maybe but what about the 15 years before it), is it Fulham's success (no), Chelsea's success (no), are we sh*t (no) IMO. It is cheaper to get in at Fulham which is crap, that annoys me but who would want to go there? Everybody knows it is our prices, sadly the people that put the prices together are the only ones who don't.
BIAS and many more than me want to lower the prices, but you carry on thinking it's BIAS and me.
My budget forecasts for the home attendances were hopelessly out this season and as a result I've already taken a chainsaw to next years forecasts.
To save you looking them up some recent attendances were :
Huddersfield 5,209 (901 away). My forecast 5,788
Exeter 6,017 (929 away) My forecast 6,238
Orient 6,369 (1,272 away) My forecast 6,588
Wycombe 5,740 (888 away) My forecast 6,888
Gillingham 6,036 (1,137 away) My forecast 5,988
MK Dons 5,209 (431 away) My forecast 6,488
What do you believe these attendances would have been if we were up there either cemented into a play-off slot or at least coming up on the rails.
Your views are clear on the pricing but how many come back given the current pricing if matches are seen as 'meaningful'.
Holysmit
Well-known member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
799 actually Abee. Didn't use my ER Season Ticket today as I was the beneficiary of a Braemar C Block comp from a member of the family who singlehandedly tried to demolish the upper tier of the Wendy House late on. Never mind Gary.
Can you get him to send me a cheque for £430 please as that ruined my bet.
Holysmit
Well-known member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Those are worrying figures. In all honesty I realise that our main source of revenue is through the gate but I do think prices are too high for third tier football. The junior rate is excellent but is it actually attracting that many number of kids or are more people trying to claim junior tickets because adult/student prices are too high.
The problem is a massive reduction in prices would be meanigless as the die hards will always come but I do think the 2 and 1 quid extra for sitting does put people of a bit. Maybe we should drop seating tickets to 20 quid and the Ealing Road to 18 quid. Then people will see it as 20 quid rather then over 20 quid, or under 20 quid if they choose to stand. Would a rise in kids price to say 8 pounds and a student rate of 15 quid really hurt us too. Say if we tried to corner the TVU market?
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
I've given up forecasting attendances, I'm as frustrated as you lot at our crap crowds. Games against Norwich, Southampton and Leeds should all be 9k or over in my book but sadly the first two became midweek games but still shouldn't have been as poor as they were IMO. I always think the crowds will be more than they ever are as I weirdly think the game means as much to me as everyone else.
The GPG is a good tool, I hate reading people who say that they'd love to go to GP but 4 games in a month is too much so they can't make that one, I'm no saint and certainly not rich but I have pmed people with the offer of covering their ticket. It's never been taken up but people missing BFC games through cost is sh*te.
I had no old man at home to finance me as a kid so I had a paper round to get me through the gates at GP, I did it easily and wouldn't accept money from my lovely mum, she needed it. Nowadays a kid in the same situation would need a big old round to pay £5 rising to £12-14 for his game. It's not possible to go to GP without parent's helping out. Enough people on here have suggested that they can't afford to come to GP and a fair few have mentioned losing fans at 16 as they couldn't do it anymore.
That horrible blip mid-season cost us any gloryhunters, we were awful to watch at times and even as we began to turn it around. You had to be a diehard to accept the way we were playing, those of us that stuck with it have reaped the benefit since. 800 no show ST holders is pathetic, the sun shone and the kids are off school, the coast may have called a few but 800.
Would dropping the prices bring people back, well it has more chance than sticking as we are? My beef is about the charging of U18s, I've always hated being ripped off at football and chose not to feel cheated. A lot of U18s have the luxury of looking young and still getting in for a £5, we don't have that option and I'd prefer not to travel all the way down unsure of how much it's going to actually cost me anyway.
I haven't answered your questions as I don't have the answer but the common thing running through your quoted forecasts is that the home numbers are sh*te, the price hasn't changed and only a PO push will change that next season. GP has been like a morgue in the main this season, we all know it and tip toe around it but it's unfair to the management and team.
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Next season we shall start with a substantially increased playing budget and with prices kept the same. We believe that the reward for supporters will be that for the same cost they should be seeing an improved product.
I can't support my next assertion but my gut feeling is that as far as Brentford non season ticket holders are concerned decisions on whether to come or not and pay at the gate are weighted:
Positive : 85% if we have a competitive team challenging for promotion
Negative : 15% admission price.
I can't support my next assertion but my gut feeling is that as far as Brentford non season ticket holders are concerned decisions on whether to come or not and pay at the gate are weighted:
Positive : 85% if we have a competitive team challenging for promotion
Negative : 15% admission price.
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Maybe we should have a look at the prices that Fulham offer, including the special deals etc` , I know of 1 person who has been to games this season for the simple reason that tickets were so cheap ...
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Maybe we should have a look at the prices that Fulham offer, including the special deals etc` , I know of 1 person who has been to games this season for the simple reason that tickets were so cheap ...
That's because they don't rely on gate income - we do. A better comparison would be how much QPR charge.
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Maybe we should have a look at the prices that Fulham offer, including the special deals etc` , I know of 1 person who has been to games this season for the simple reason that tickets were so cheap ...
Fulham get £40 million in TV money per season so can slash prices when they see fit. As Les said, other clubs should provide a fairer comparison.
I've given up forecasting attendances, I'm as frustrated as you lot at our crap crowds. Games against Norwich, Southampton and Leeds should all be 9k or over in my book but sadly the first two became midweek games but still shouldn't have been as poor as they were IMO. I always think the crowds will be more than they ever are as I weirdly think the game means as much to me as everyone else.
The GPG is a good tool, I hate reading people who say that they'd love to go to GP but 4 games in a month is too much so they can't make that one, I'm no saint and certainly not rich but I have pmed people with the offer of covering their ticket. It's never been taken up but people missing BFC games through cost is sh*te.
I had no old man at home to finance me as a kid so I had a paper round to get me through the gates at GP, I did it easily and wouldn't accept money from my lovely mum, she needed it. Nowadays a kid in the same situation would need a big old round to pay £5 rising to £12-14 for his game. It's not possible to go to GP without parent's helping out. Enough people on here have suggested that they can't afford to come to GP and a fair few have mentioned losing fans at 16 as they couldn't do it anymore.
That horrible blip mid-season cost us any gloryhunters, we were awful to watch at times and even as we began to turn it around. You had to be a diehard to accept the way we were playing, those of us that stuck with it have reaped the benefit since. 800 no show ST holders is pathetic, the sun shone and the kids are off school, the coast may have called a few but 800.
Would dropping the prices bring people back, well it has more chance than sticking as we are? My beef is about the charging of U18s, I've always hated being ripped off at football and chose not to feel cheated. A lot of U18s have the luxury of looking young and still getting in for a £5, we don't have that option and I'd prefer not to travel all the way down unsure of how much it's going to actually cost me anyway.
I haven't answered your questions as I don't have the answer but the common thing running through your quoted forecasts is that the home numbers are sh*te, the price hasn't changed and only a PO push will change that next season. GP has been like a morgue in the main this season, we all know it and tip toe around it but it's unfair to the management and team.
A heartwarming tale, but tell me, where do you want Brentford to go? If we're in the Championship in two seasons time then I suspect adult prices would be around £30-£35 to sustain the wage bill (even this price won't be enough to break even).
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Can we really expect decent crowds when each game we play is basically a friendly match? Perhaps if we were in a relegation/promotion battle things would be different (10k+ last season against Wycombe comes to mind)
Nick Hester
Formerly known as Greenholme Bee
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
I'd agree with that.
I've really enjoyed this season bar a couple of games, and the above assumption is spot on.
Doovster
Well-known member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
As was the case last season in a lower league.
We have sadly languished too long in the lower leagues which has eroded our hardcore support. We need to be challenging for promotion to pull out the extra three or four thousand we saw towards the end of last season.
If we could get into the promised land which is the Championship and manage to stay there for a sustained period of time then I hope we would grow the hardcore support and in the event we ever found ourselves back in league one would have a higher core support. Reading, for example, would no doubt have a significantly increased core support if they returned to league one, albeit they started not that long ago from Elm Park with crowds of 3,500.
The only way to increase support is to compete and have some success which attracts the new/latent support. It must be very difficult for those running the club as this potentially leads to some speculative decision making regarding playing budgets and investment.
I feel we really have to take advantage of Mathew Benham's investment during the next 4 years and grab the opportunity which we have to try and build this club to be self sustainable and competitive in four years time, if Mathew decides to withdraw future investment at that stage. From abee's comments re the playing budget this seems to be the case and I hope management and supporters get their rewards for the ambition being shown.
Garybaldbee
Active member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
That sounds about right in terms of the latent pool of semi-committed support; those who immediately recognise themselves as Brentford fans, follow the club's fortunes quite closely but pick and choose their games. However, I doubt that this group numbers much more than 1,500-2,000 maximum since over the last 20 years our core home support of 4,000-4,500 has never really risen much above 6,000 even when pushing strongly for promotion. I would suggest that the equation could almost be reversed for the neutrals and casuals that we need to begin to attract if we are ever to properly grow as a club. Its all anecdotal of course, but to qoute one very typical encounter; a friend of mine who I used to very occassionally manage to drag down to GP in the '90's enquired about the current admission prices. When I told him he literally just fell about with laughter. We understand why there is a business need for this ticketing strategy but outsiders, who place a different value on going to matches, just see an absolute rip off.
A question to abee though. Without being specific about BFC of course, is there any prospect of wage deflation in the football industry this summer? Are the financial difficulties within the game likely to lead to a more realistic salary market which should ease the pressure on admission prices? After all, there is no reason why a club with average gates of 5-6,000 shouldn't be sustainable and even competitive with lower admission prices provided its outgoings are reduced.
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
this is not the thread i wanted to read on a sunday morning.
it is finally coming down to costs to see matches. the support dwindled in the past because of the poor performances of past squads/managers. they increased slightly when the Bees were promotion hunting and championship grabbing, but then we performed poorly the next season or so after and droped like a stone again, so the support went away, people can only take so much. they drift away never to return, or go down the road as their new 'family' can see premiershite football at a cheaper price. It's going to take a BIG turnaround to get home support above an average of 5.5k a game again. I have no answers. Cutting costs to get in would mean the playing budget or backroom team suffering, a "catch 22" situation, abee/BeeH et al have all done their part in geting the club on a sounder footing, but it's going to take a promotion hunt to get some fans back and interested again. In AS, Mr Benham and the directors we trust, i just hope it comes off in 2010/11.
I want my club to enjoy some success that has come the way of others. i'm willing to pay so much, but not beyond my means, my daughter comes now because it's 'only' a fiver, if it was £12/£14 she wouldn't be coming. My son doesn't attend as the "football" isn't to his "taste". Sadly. But he still says his team is the Bees. I will always be there as i can take the crap, most of the time, but some just can't anymore.
it is finally coming down to costs to see matches. the support dwindled in the past because of the poor performances of past squads/managers. they increased slightly when the Bees were promotion hunting and championship grabbing, but then we performed poorly the next season or so after and droped like a stone again, so the support went away, people can only take so much. they drift away never to return, or go down the road as their new 'family' can see premiershite football at a cheaper price. It's going to take a BIG turnaround to get home support above an average of 5.5k a game again. I have no answers. Cutting costs to get in would mean the playing budget or backroom team suffering, a "catch 22" situation, abee/BeeH et al have all done their part in geting the club on a sounder footing, but it's going to take a promotion hunt to get some fans back and interested again. In AS, Mr Benham and the directors we trust, i just hope it comes off in 2010/11.
I want my club to enjoy some success that has come the way of others. i'm willing to pay so much, but not beyond my means, my daughter comes now because it's 'only' a fiver, if it was £12/£14 she wouldn't be coming. My son doesn't attend as the "football" isn't to his "taste". Sadly. But he still says his team is the Bees. I will always be there as i can take the crap, most of the time, but some just can't anymore.
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Saturday's crowd (split thread)
But the point I was making ( however badly ) was that Fulham are just down the road and are offering a lot of cheap tickets to watch a higher level of football, whether they rely on match day income or not, we are in competition with them to attract `` floating/casual`` supporters.
Whilst we may not be able to offer tickets quite as cheap as they do I certainly feel that we need to look at a lot of the deals they offer and then see how we can compete with them. After all Brentford F.C is a business and Fulham are a business rival so we can`t just say `` they make much more than us therefore we can`t compete with them but we can compete with Staines Town``
Lokster
Man on a Mission
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
The only way I can contribute here is to talk through my decision making this season. Having gone freelance in Feb last year I couldn't afford the cost of a season ticket up front so it was always going to be a financial question thereafter. I missed a lot of games in the first half of the season because I could not justify spending £20/game. So I was a bit picky about who I went to see (both home+away). Then in the second-half of the season my financial situation improved and £20 became - generally - more affordable. So I've missed a couple of home games because I've been invited to other games but I've pretty much done a few more home games.
I do think (for both rebus + abee's benefit) that cost is a higher negative than you both seem to think. It almost becomes more important if we are heading for mid-table mediocrity I think because it is easier to say 'o sod it I'll go' if you're talking spending £15 rather than £20.
I also think NorthamptonBee's got a point about the 16-18 price.
However where I agree with abee+rebus is that I don't think reducing the prices would see attendences rise drastically.
I think abee's calculation of positive + negative is right-ish I just think the percentages are more 65-35.
The calculation thereafter is weather reducing the prices by £2 would see enough of a rise to justify the lose of revenue. Would £18 v £20 have made me come to more games at the start of the season when money was tight? Probably not. I think a price reduction would only make a significant difference if it was itself significant, which Brentford as a club can't afford.
I do think (for both rebus + abee's benefit) that cost is a higher negative than you both seem to think. It almost becomes more important if we are heading for mid-table mediocrity I think because it is easier to say 'o sod it I'll go' if you're talking spending £15 rather than £20.
I also think NorthamptonBee's got a point about the 16-18 price.
However where I agree with abee+rebus is that I don't think reducing the prices would see attendences rise drastically.
I think abee's calculation of positive + negative is right-ish I just think the percentages are more 65-35.
The calculation thereafter is weather reducing the prices by £2 would see enough of a rise to justify the lose of revenue. Would £18 v £20 have made me come to more games at the start of the season when money was tight? Probably not. I think a price reduction would only make a significant difference if it was itself significant, which Brentford as a club can't afford.
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Because Fulham receive £40 million in TV money that enables them to subsidise less attractive fixtures.
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Cant we cut prices for rest of the season because if we only get 5200 against a team that brought 900 what are we going to get in the remaining home fixtures I dont think the board is smart enough in the ticket prices and making deals we have kids for a quid but it is only a fiver to get in why not lower adults prices every now and then when the less attractive games come along in the midweek e.g Tranmere lower the prices for everyone there is no imagination and something needs to be done because are crowds are not good enough for a team that has just come up had a good year and play aload of Southern teams that sell out more often than not?
DavidgRushden
DavidgRushden
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
One factor perhaps not taken into account where NB is concerned is the return travel cost for each home match, as he is not exactly local to Griffin Park, thus his costs are considerably more than most.
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
With respect, that's not something the club is going to factor in when determining prices. If supporters wish to live 90 minutes drive away then that is their choice.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
I agree with that, I choose to live in a nice part of the country. Luckily we have cars full of Bees from up here and always manage to share the travelling costs out. We charge the adults but never the non-working kids amongst us, feck me there's an idea.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Winning team = bums on seats.
I'd love the club to reduce the prices but I know how tough it is financially at BFC so if we are to increase the playing budget for next term and improve on this season's league position then the prices must remain the same.
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Surely with the investment of MB prices can be dropped a bit
rebus
On my final warning
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
No, because to raise the wage bill to a point where BFC thinks it can compete at the top end, that money comes directly from his investment. He is not treating BFC as a charity. The club has to pay its way as much as it can. Supporters cannot have it both ways, if you want a club in the Championship then it is a bit rich asking for rock bottom prices.
hobbsy
Optimist
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
My local corner shop is beaten by Tesco's prices. They can't afford to cut the prices to the same as Tesco's as Tesco has a much larger income.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Nobody has asked for "rock bottom prices!"lol
I have mentioned that 16-18 years are badly priced up, lots of others have come out of the woods and explained why they miss games and it seems cost is the main reason. I'm less surprised than you.
I have mentioned that 16-18 years are badly priced up, lots of others have come out of the woods and explained why they miss games and it seems cost is the main reason. I'm less surprised than you.
wanderer paul
https://brentfordfcmemorabilia.wordpress.com/
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
his 'investment' is already covering losses for each season plus the other half of his £1 mill is going to AS for his playing budget to get the Bees up a division. Why should Mr Benham throw money at lowering gate prices?
fencer/bee
Active member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
The 'big idea' is to make the club more successful on the pitch. I cannot imagine what the attendances would be now if we were in the situation we were in two years and a bit ago.......bottom six of League Two and with Butcher and Dickens running the show. I believe we'd be at 2,000-2,500. Others may argue 'look at Luton' and that if we were top of the Conference we'd be getting 7,000. I don't think so and going down to the Conference as part of some 'Master Plan' didn't appeal to me in December 2007 and never will.
We also have to factor in the extra whammy's.......increased NI plus there is in my view a better than evens chance that whoever gets in on May 6 VAT may well increase. An increase in VAT to 20% from 17.5% would cost the club over £30k in a full year to absorb the increased costs both on season tickets, pay on the day and club shop sales.
West Wilts Bee
Active member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
What do you know about it? It's about peoples circumstances. There are loades of us that travel a long way to see our team. why i have come to live in Wiltshire is frankly nobody elses business. But if the fuel prices keep going up at this present rate it could well see my Brentford supporting days coming to an end.
fencer/bee
Active member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
All my family are above the 16-18 yr bracket, so ive got nothing to gain, but i would like to see the price looked at again, if we lose this age group now!! we may lose them for ever.
NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
All my family are above the 16-18 yr bracket, so ive got nothing to gain, but i would like to see the price looked at again, if we lose this age group now!! we may lose them for ever.
You get in free now, don't you?
fencer/bee
Active member
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
With this seasons starting playing budget £1.8m which includes basic wages, transfer fees, agents fees, relocation expenses, signing on fees, appearance monies, goals and clean sheet bonuses and NI contributions and a squad of say twenty four you can do the numbers yourself on the back of a fag packet and make a good fist of guessing our average basic wage.
We are already talking to players who we would like to bring in during the summer but the reality is that if we are interested in them then so are other ambitious clubs. Players who are not in demand may well have to lower their sights but I have seen no sign that the players with serious options and a choice of several clubs will.
Niyx
Part Time Supporter
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Saturday's crowd (split thread)
I've always liked the idea of the 75 miler season ticket. I know the idea will get some peoples backs up tho!
. But a very good idea imho. Gets you into 15 home games. Petrol prices are killing me also Notts County have them. Watford and Reading have them too.
http://www.nottscountyfc.co.uk/page/SeasonTickets/
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NorthamptonBee
Yes Boss
Saturday's crowd (split thread)
I've always liked the idea of the 75 miler season ticket. I know the idea will get some peoples backs up tho!
Notts County have them. Watford and Reading have them too.
http://www.nottscountyfc.co.uk/page/SeasonTickets/
rebus is having a mare.
Not on his watch.