Striking options

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Striking options

In July we are in the thick of selling season tickets. Nobody believes the propaganda that's spouted each year about "expecting to be top six" do they?

To be fair, I recall the club saying that top six was the ambition - not that they were "expecting" it. For a club of our slender means to expect such a thing would be rather hubristic!

Looking at the players we had I don't see why we couldn't have thought top six realistic. Considering we had major key players poached at the last minute, and where we are in the table now even after the disruption, I think you could say that expectation wasn't unreasonable.
We still might make the top six still.
 

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The loan window will soon be open if it's not already....we can get someone in if we want....personally I'd rather go with what we have as we arent likely going up or down this season
 

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The loan window will soon be open if it's not already....we can get someone in if we want....personally I'd rather go with what we have as we arent likely going up or down this season

What planet are you on? There is no loan window outside the two main transfer windows apart from emergency loans of goalkeepers
 

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The loan window will soon be open if it's not already....we can get someone in if we want....personally I'd rather go with what we have as we arent likely going up or down this season

no such thing as a loan window now, rules changed, we can't get anyone else (unless they had no contract at all on Jan 31st)
 

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Obviously haven't kept up with that then ! Go with what we have I guess. ...I've no prob with that
 

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worth remembering too that there was a lot of wailing about how we left ourselves short last year (when Hogan left)... and it didn't work out too badly... it's almost as if they know what they're doing :)
 

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We are competing in the top half of one of the strongest leagues in the world!!!

Ollie played upfront for Exeter now and again, Marcondes upfront now and again for a Danish league team.......

Hardly the same thing is it????

Andre Gray was brought in from Luton, Scott Hogan Rochdale...Jota a second tier Spanish side. They plan ahead, they expect us to score goals with the options we have. Just because things haven't gone all our way the last 3 games in the league doesn't mean everybody needs to implode. Vibe was our main goalscorer, now he is gone. Now there is an opportunity for Ollie, Neal and Marcondes to stake a claim up front. Alan Judge is coming back to full match fitness, we still have Flojo and Canos and Sawyers behind the forwards.

Maupay hasn't really taken his chance but was most deserving, I'm sure he'll get more and I'm sure Marcondes and Ollie will too.

What part of we have a bottom 5 budget do people not understand?
 

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worth remembering too that there was a lot of wailing about how we left ourselves short last year (when Hogan left)... and it didn't work out too badly... it's almost as if they know what they're doing :)

:imwith: That or we’ve just been incredibly lucky with buying rubbish centre forwards cheap and conning people they’re decent and worth 15-20 times what we paid for them within a year. Somehow the rubbish we’ve been left with seem to be really lucky and scoring as well so far. I doubt it will be down to strategy or coaching just pure luck. :fishing:
 

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Looking at the players we had I don't see why we couldn't have thought top six realistic. Considering we had major key players poached at the last minute, and where we are in the table now even after the disruption, I think you could say that expectation wasn't unreasonable.
We still might make the top six still.

Win our next two, ( not unrealistic) Fulham have Wolves at home soon, Fulham and Bristol City, who also have difficult games, have to play one another. Situation could look totally different by the end of the month with us back to within 3 points. Or it may not. Either way we're assured of a fifth season of Championship football! All this and there's people actually complaining.
 

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Like Maupay and think he always puts in a shift for us, but for me he isn't a striker who can play up top by himself. He seems well suited to being a strike partner for someone else but unless we are going to change our whole system and put 2 up front, he lacks the height to be a consistent threat - certainly not yearning for a Matt Smith type player, but I do feel that to play as a lone striker (even with support from the wings) you need the size to hold up play more regularly.

Hope I'm proved wrong though
 

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Like Maupay and think he always puts in a shift for us, but for me he isn't a striker who can play up top by himself. He seems well suited to being a strike partner for someone else but unless we are going to change our whole system and put 2 up front, he lacks the height to be a consistent threat - certainly not yearning for a Matt Smith type player, but I do feel that to play as a lone striker (even with support from the wings) you need the size to hold up play more regularly.

Hope I'm proved wrong though

Bit like lanky Andre Gray and Hulk Hogan you mean? ;) Not forgetting big Lasse, of course.
 

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There is always plan D in a match and stick Egan up front. Not elegant but is always a different option
 

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would be a bit pointless now, he wouldn't be able to play until August. this idea would've been better last week - why didn't you bring it up then?

i don't understand the internet loudmouths constantly criticising how the club is run when those in charge have a long record of fantastic success. sure, discuss things, analyse things - but there's this huge underlying distrust that's just unfathomable to me and sucks some of the fun out of all this. can't you just leave us to enjoy the club's golden era instead of trying to find where it's going wrong so that you can be the first to say "told you so" ?!

You take the internet far too seriously
 

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would be a bit pointless now, he wouldn't be able to play until August. this idea would've been better last week - why didn't you bring it up then?

i don't understand the internet loudmouths constantly criticising how the club is run when those in charge have a long record of fantastic success. sure, discuss things, analyse things - but there's this huge underlying distrust that's just unfathomable to me and sucks some of the fun out of all this. can't you just leave us to enjoy the club's golden era instead of trying to find where it's going wrong so that you can be the first to say "told you so" ?!

But, but, we're rolling in cash.....aren't we? ;)
 

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Win our next two, ( not unrealistic) Fulham have Wolves at home soon, Fulham and Bristol City, who also have difficult games, have to play one another. Situation could look totally different by the end of the month with us back to within 3 points. Or it may not. Either way we're assured of a fifth season of Championship football! All this and there's people actually complaining.

I believe we have no chance of promotion or relegation, any promotion hopes ended about 2 weeks ago. If we get a top ten finish that will be amazing after the start we had, also add the four players we have lost since the end of August. We will never know if recruiting a central striker in January may have got us into the play offs. Would love you to be right Burford Bee.
 

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I believe we have no chance of promotion or relegation, any promotion hopes ended about 2 weeks ago. If we get a top ten finish that will be amazing after the start we had, also add the four players we have lost since the end of August. We will never know if recruiting a central striker in January may have got us into the play offs. Would love you to be right Burford Bee.

According to some stattos, we still have a 13% chance of play offs. Very low indeed, but still a chance
 

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I believe we have no chance of promotion or relegation, any promotion hopes ended about 2 weeks ago. If we get a top ten finish that will be amazing after the start we had, also add the four players we have lost since the end of August. We will never know if recruiting a central striker in January may have got us into the play offs. Would love you to be right Burford Bee.

However unlikely you might think it might be , 8 points off 6th with the bottom 5 to play and some 6 pointers against fellow play off chasers is not " no chance "
 

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Bit like lanky Andre Gray and Hulk Hogan you mean? ;) Not forgetting big Lasse, of course.

A fair point - maybe the height element is a little unfair (though Lasse is 6ft and I think Maupay is around 5'8). Still stand by the view that he would operate better as one of two up front - don't know if that's his previous experience in France but would be interested to know.
 

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A fair point - maybe the height element is a little unfair (though Lasse is 6ft and I think Maupay is around 5'8). Still stand by the view that he would operate better as one of two up front - don't know if that's his previous experience in France but would be interested to know.

Lasse is 6 foot! Really? I thought he was shorter. Doesn't explain why he used to jump 5'7.
 

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Back to the original question, I don't think we have even one "recognised striker" in the current squad. But we could question how much that really matters? Playing as we do in largely a 4-3-3 formation, the front 3 should be fairly fluid and whilst one player is nominally the centrally striker, it could and should be any of those 3 getting into positions to score. I'm fairly sure that's how Smith would see it and may explain why we haven't been out chasing the more traditional number 9 type strikers (and on that same point, I wouldn't describe Vibe as such, either).

We didn't look to replace Hogan directly and I think for good reason - he scored lots of goals for us but we didn't regularly gel as a team with him in the side. The strategy appears to bring in players that can play anywhere across the front 3 and I think it gives us lots of options up there. The issue, if we have one, is that many of our players in those positions are young, developing and still adapting to Championship level football which may explain the lack of consistency in our performances.
 

Striking options

(Not read all of it, but) Well Done Chaps! for getting this thread up to three pages.

When I read the title, I thought we'd struggle to make three posts.

And that's including the OP and this one.

P.S. I'm not moaning or blaming anyone at BFC for our paucity of options, or writing Maupay off completely, it's just with Vibe gone, it has to be said we're a bit screwed up top.
 

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Back to the original question, I don't think we have even one "recognised striker" in the current squad. But we could question how much that really matters? Playing as we do in largely a 4-3-3 formation, the front 3 should be fairly fluid and whilst one player is nominally the centrally striker, it could and should be any of those 3 getting into positions to score. I'm fairly sure that's how Smith would see it and may explain why we haven't been out chasing the more traditional number 9 type strikers (and on that same point, I wouldn't describe Vibe as such, either).

We didn't look to replace Hogan directly and I think for good reason - he scored lots of goals for us but we didn't regularly gel as a team with him in the side. The strategy appears to bring in players that can play anywhere across the front 3 and I think it gives us lots of options up there. The issue, if we have one, is that many of our players in those positions are young, developing and still adapting to Championship level football which may explain the lack of consistency in our performances.

Of course it matters - our success in recent seasons has seen us playing with a regular scorer up top who leads the line. In order they were: Donaldson, Gray, Hogan, Vibe.

It looks like the production line has come to a (temporary?) halt.
 

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worth remembering too that there was a lot of wailing about how we left ourselves short last year (when Hogan left)... and it didn't work out too badly... it's almost as if they know what they're doing :)

Donaldson - Gray - Hogan - Vibe - ? - That is my concern and a few more others now on here. Yes 3 of these played wide right in our formation, but all looked better when playing the Central Role of the front three.
 

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Donaldson - Gray - Hogan - Vibe - ? - That is my concern and a few more others now on here. Yes 3 of these played wide right in our formation, but all looked better when playing the Central Role of the front three.

what i'm saying is that people were saying we'd left ourselves short last year, and it worked out alright. the management team obviously think that what we've got is sufficient (and/or they couldn't find what they want at an appropriate price). we are where we are and this is what we've got. i'm happy to give it a chance :)
 

Striking options

Back to the original question, I don't think we have even one "recognised striker" in the current squad. But we could question how much that really matters? Playing as we do in largely a 4-3-3 formation, the front 3 should be fairly fluid and whilst one player is nominally the centrally striker, it could and should be any of those 3 getting into positions to score. I'm fairly sure that's how Smith would see it and may explain why we haven't been out chasing the more traditional number 9 type strikers (and on that same point, I wouldn't describe Vibe as such, either).

We didn't look to replace Hogan directly and I think for good reason - he scored lots of goals for us but we didn't regularly gel as a team with him in the side. The strategy appears to bring in players that can play anywhere across the front 3 and I think it gives us lots of options up there. The issue, if we have one, is that many of our players in those positions are young, developing and still adapting to Championship level football which may explain the lack of consistency in our performances.

I still think this Hogan thing is massively overplayed and if you bunged him into our side now he'd be both do fine and be scoring more than Maupay (perhaps not bucketloads more but some). That had a lot more to do with our side being one-dimensional, with no real wingers, than having to play a certain way to suit Hogan.

Hogan was simply a better striker for us from day one and always looked likely to score. Maupay just isn't at that level yet. (He may get there but is a way off the level Hogan was at imo)

We're still amongst the better sides in the league, and are still yet to find our best XI, with lots of new signings or people coming back from injury.

Let's face it, we lost our first choice right back to Brum, first choice left back to injury, first choice centre back to Brum, another first choice winger to Brum, now our main striker to China......and still should have beaten one of the better sides in the league at the weekend. On top of that we lost our main defensive midfielder with a period due to a personal tragedy, and so on and so forth.

I think all it'll take for us is keeping the vast majority of a squad together for a while (and fit) and you'll see further improvement as the young players both improve individually and gel together more.

I'm sure they're looking for another striker though regardless as we're not exactly flush in that department ;)
 
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Striking options

what i'm saying is that people were saying we'd left ourselves short last year, and it worked out alright. the management team obviously think that what we've got is sufficient (and/or they couldn't find what they want at an appropriate price). we are where we are and this is what we've got. i'm happy to give it a chance :)

I think that's right. Much as I enjoy the way we play there are times when I wish we had a striker with a little more physical presence and it is frustrating the number of times our approach play leaves us with a free centre from a promising wide position and nobody is there to get on the end of it so the ball is cut back. Maupay was doing his best to get across the central defenders but that is not his game. I'm not looking for a Gary Alexander- type up front but someone who provides a different option. I expect our staff have probably identified possible signings for next season and, based upon previous signings, I would be confident that they will get it right.
 

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I think that's right. Much as I enjoy the way we play there are times when I wish we had a striker with a little more physical presence and it is frustrating the number of times our approach play leaves us with a free centre from a promising wide position and nobody is there to get on the end of it so the ball is cut back. Maupay was doing his best to get across the central defenders but that is not his game. I'm not looking for a Gary Alexander- type up front but someone who provides a different option. I expect our staff have probably identified possible signings for next season and, based upon previous signings, I would be confident that they will get it right.

I don't know if Ollie can/could play there (or has before) but have thought for a long time someone like him would be good for us in the middle with the way we play. Good build, decent in the air, quick enough, etc.
 

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I think Ollie is great coming in at far post battling full back to head the ball. It's a different matter against centrebacks at the moment. Plenty of time.
 

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After yesterday’s news & result, it could be a distinct possibility that young Mr Forss will be featuring against his former team in the Championship next season....
 

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I don't know if Ollie can/could play there (or has before) but have thought for a long time someone like him would be good for us in the middle with the way we play. Good build, decent in the air, quick enough, etc.

In time, he’ll be a striker, in the Henry mould, IMO. He’s still learning and having his peaks and troughs. It’s expected imo, as Maupay is showing too.
 

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In time, he’ll be a striker, in the Henry mould, IMO. He’s still learning and having his peaks and troughs. It’s expected imo, as Maupay is showing too.

This is not by any means certain...I would refer you to another powerful player that started his career playing in a wide position and didn't make a successful transition to central striker...one Marcus Gayle
 

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This is not by any means certain...I would refer you to another powerful player that started his career playing in a wide position and didn't make a successful transition to central striker...one Marcus Gayle

Eh.....Marcus Gayle's main position ended up being a striker.......
 

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This is not by any means certain...I would refer you to another powerful player that started his career playing in a wide position and didn't make a successful transition to central striker...one Marcus Gayle


Marcus Gayle played most of his career as a striker. As Marcus Bent, another who started out wide.
 

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ah, but was he successful? i mean, he only played in the Premier League and World Cup - andyrew obviously sets the bar a BIT higher than that...
 

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Gayle...
Wimbledon 236 apps 37 goals
Watford 100 odd apps 5 goals
case proven methinks

dangerous winger not a great striker
 

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Gayle...
Wimbledon 236 apps 37 goals
Watford 100 odd apps 5 goals
case proven methinks

dangerous winger not a great striker

My memory isn't great but I don't think Wimbledon fans were too unhappy with his performance. He wasn't playing for a top of the league side and likely to be getting great service and banging in tons of goals.
 

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Let's face it, we lost our first choice right back to Brum, first choice left back to injury, first choice centre back to Brum, another first choice winger to Brum, now our main striker to China......and still should have beaten one of the better sides in the league at the weekend. On top of that we lost our main defensive midfielder with a period due to a personal tragedy, and so on and so forth.

I think you'll find that most clubs can tell such stories - key players X and Y out with long-term injuries, star forwards L and M nicked by other clubs during the transfer window, and so on. Assuming that we're not really going to make it with our push for the playoffs this season (though you never know), I'm banking on the squad gelling between now and the start of next season, and most of our best players remaining (for example, Judge) and staying clear of injury, for it to emerge stronger overall. I think the bonding and the understanding that can be achieved by our present squad, the great majority of whom ought to be still with us next season, should stand us in good stead for a credible push for the playoffs. (And even this season, it's only the disastrous start we made in August/September, with a mere four points from eight games, that left us with too steep a mountain to climb.

I wouldn't object to management bringing in a specialist striker à la Hogan or Gray, far from it if he's young and the price is right. But I think our present policy of relying on players who can play anywhere across the front three is viable. If I had to choose between Canos, Watkins, Marcondes and Jozefzoon to act as central striker, I think the best bet would be Watkins, with Marcondes as a close second. But I'm still hopeful that Maupay can start finding the net on a regular basis. As others have noted, it often takes most of a season for a foreign player to get accustomed to the rigours of playing in the Championship.
 
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I think you'll find that most clubs can tell such stories - key players X and Y out with long-term injuries, star forwards L and M nicked by other clubs during the transfer window, and so on. Assuming that we're not really going to make it with our push for the playoffs this season (though you never know), I'm banking on the squad gelling between now and the start of next season, and most of our best players remaining (for example, Judge) and staying clear of injury, for it to emerge stronger overall. I think the bonding and the understanding that can be achieved by our present squad, the great majority of whom ought to be still with us next season, should stand us in good stead for a credible push for the playoffs. (And even this season, it's only the disastrous start we made in August/September, with a mere four points from eight games, that left us with too steep a mountain to climb.

I wouldn't object to management bringing in a specialist striker à la Hogan or Gray, far from it if he's young and the price is right. But I think our present policy of relying on players who can play anywhere across the front three is viable. If I had to choose between Canos, Watkins, Marcondes and Jozefzoon to act as central striker, I think the best bet would be Watkins, with Marcondes as a close second. But I'm still hopeful that Maupay can start finding the net on a regular basis. As others have noted, it often takes most of a season for a foreign player to get accustomed to the rigours of playing in the Championship.

I agree with everything apart from your first sentence (I suppose I should as basically posted the same thing earlier :tongue:).
I think most sides do not have three first teamers including their captain leaving on deadline day. In fact very few will be in a similar situation.
 

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I think you'll find that most clubs can tell such stories - key players X and Y out with long-term injuries, star forwards L and M nicked by other clubs during the transfer window, and so on. Assuming that we're not really going to make it with our push for the playoffs this season (though you never know), I'm banking on the squad gelling between now and the start of next season, and most of our best players remaining (for example, Judge) and staying clear of injury, for it to emerge stronger overall. I think the bonding and the understanding that can be achieved by our present squad, the great majority of whom ought to be still with us next season, should stand us in good stead for a credible push for the playoffs. (And even this season, it's only the disastrous start we made in August/September, with a mere four points from eight games, that left us with too steep a mountain to climb.

I wouldn't object to management bringing in a specialist striker à la Hogan or Gray, far from it if he's young and the price is right. But I think our present policy of relying on players who can play anywhere across the front three is viable. If I had to choose between Canos, Watkins, Marcondes and Jozefzoon to act as central striker, I think the best bet would be Watkins, with Marcondes as a close second. But I'm still hopeful that Maupay can start finding the net on a regular basis. As others have noted, it often takes most of a season for a foreign player to get accustomed to the rigours of playing in the Championship.

I will be amazed if we don't cash in on at least one and replace with better.

The challenge we have is that a policy of selling when players are at their peak means you are always going 2 steps forwards 2 steps back so it is a very difficult ask.
 

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I will be amazed if we don't cash in on at least one and replace with better.

The challenge we have is that a policy of selling when players are at their peak means you are always going 2 steps forwards 2 steps back so it is a very difficult ask.

I'll be very disappointed if we don't cash in on a couple of players in the summer - because it'll mean we're in very serious financial trouble! The recruitment so far has been just about good enough to cope with the upheaval and, since our play-off season, we've had finishes of 9th, 12th and something similar this season. It does seem that we're treading water - and it might only take one window of poor recruitment to send us back from whence we came - but our strategy at least has kept us competitive up to now.
 

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I'll be very disappointed if we don't cash in on a couple of players in the summer - because it'll mean we're in very serious financial trouble! The recruitment so far has been just about good enough to cope with the upheaval and, since our play-off season, we've had finishes of 9th, 12th and something similar this season. It does seem that we're treading water - and it might only take one window of poor recruitment to send us back from whence we came - but our strategy at least has kept us competitive up to now.

Yup.
 

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I agree with everything apart from your first sentence (I suppose I should as basically posted the same thing earlier :tongue:).
I think most sides do not have three first teamers including their captain leaving on deadline day. In fact very few will be in a similar situation.

I always understood that all three had already been replaced? In that case it would have been a financial disaster if Harry had not come calling. I for one was relieved when then left. We signed Canos and Josphzoon in January, Dalsgaard on 1st July and clearly a path was being cleared for Mepham (to avoid another Mawson). Apart from the wage bill Dean Smith would have had major problem if those three had remained.
 

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In that case it would have been a financial disaster if Harry had not come calling.

Do you seriously think Benham and the DoFs would allow the club to flirt with financial disaster which was only avoidable by the club receiving last minute bids in the final few days of the transfer window?
 

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I think perhaps more of a worry than the 'striker options' question is the fact that goals from elsewhere in the side seem to have dried up a little. Sawyers hasn't scored since Villa (I think?) and when was the last time Watkins scored? Recently we've been pretty much reliant on Vibe and Flojo.. In fact looking at the last 10 games we've got Vibe with 5, Flojo with 3, Maupay with 1 and Sawyers with 1.. I'm perfectly happy to go with whatever the club has planned for the central attacking role but in order for that to work out we really need others in the squad to start chipping in with goals again..
 

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Well I could moderate 'Disaster", but it would have been Eleven Million that Matthew Benham would have had to find to subsidise the club , or at least as was necessary. Then there was the unplanned for extra wages bill! Whatever it does nor alter the fact that the club must follow the business plan, and keep selling to survive, and those three were planned sales.
 

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Well I could moderate 'Disaster", but it would have been Eleven Million that Matthew Benham would have had to find to subsidise the club , or at least as was necessary. Then there was the unplanned for extra wages bill! Whatever it does nor alter the fact that the club must follow the business plan, and keep selling to survive, and those three were planned sales.

I don't buy it. I'd reckon they planned only to lose Jota (and probably Vibe at some point by the sound of it).
 

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I don't buy it. I'd reckon they planned only to lose Jota (and probably Vibe at some point by the sound of it).

Dean and Colin were always on the cards as soon as it was clear that they weren't going to extend their contracts and thought they could get more elsewhere.
 

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Dean and Colin were always on the cards as soon as it was clear that they weren't going to extend their contracts and thought they could get more elsewhere.
We also prepared by having replacements already in place. Mepham had already been identified as better than Dean and current Denmark right back Dalsgaard was always purchased to replace Colin who almost left earlier in the summer.
 
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