Swindon Referee

[ladbroke]

I do not know what you are getting at as I totally agree with you - I was just pointing out facts and that,in my opinion,the standard of refereeing is appalling. As an old git who has played and reffed I think the level of training and support given to up and coming refs is not up to scratch and I happen to believe we should encourage more players to take up the whistle when they fiinish their footballing careers.

Training these days (well, in the Berks & Bucks area at least) consists of 2 full days (generally a Sunday) of practical work such as:

Being out on a pitch 'describing' the pitch which includes dimensions, state of pitch, markings etc.
How to be an assistant and the use of the flag (signals etc).
How to blow a whistle (stupid I know, but literally they teach you how to run and blow a whistle at the same time).
They even included, between all the participants, a game where they last about 5 minutes each with each participant getting the chance to 'referee' the game. They then get a tutor to say what they saw and what could be changed.. Considering the game has no offside, no assistants, I don't see what you effectively learn from it as no one will make 'meaty' challenges.
A bit of time spent in the classroom 'learning' misconduct by watching DVD's of incidents and saying what we think of them.

Taking the exam, to pass, the referee has to achieve 75%. The exam is made up of two 'tests' which the first is written which equates to 70% of the marks. 35 Questions, 2 marks per question with it all being multiple choice. The remaining 30% is made up of watching a DVD in which you have to answer to what you have seen - again its multiple choice with questions such as would you have given a goal kick, corner, etc...

After passing, you then have to referee 6 games before you become a 'fully qualified referee'. Hopefully with an assessor watching but they will hopefully catch up with you at some point. After the exam - your out on your own refereeing games.
One major point - You could score 75% and pass - but NOT get told what you got wrong. So you could be going out there doing something you think may be right, but is in fact wrong.

 

[pompeybee]

That's very different, and I'd say better, than when I qualified in the early 70s - when you could go out on the park having only done classroom learning followed by an exam.

There is, of course, a long way from this basic training to getting anywhere near professional football, with levels to pass through based on club marks and assessments, fitness tests, and plenty of opportunity for feedback.

Whatever you may think of them when they get there, the guys we see at GP have put huge amounts of effort and commitment into getting where they are, and are - just like players - streets ahead of those down at the bottom of the pile.

 

[Aberdeen flyer]

Rubbish, impractical idea that wouldnt work or improve the quality of refereeing.

So I am not intitled to an opinion - you consider it rubbish but there have been referees who have played the game that are in fact more aware of what goes on during a game and you say it wouldn't work - well for your information it already has in the past - Mark Halsey - played to a reasonable level (Cambridge City & Hertford Town) - a few years ago Steve Baines who played for Chesterfield and was a ref on the league for 8 years. Jon Moss a current Prem ref (officiated in our home Cup game with Chelsea) who played as a youngster for Sunderland and Millwal - I could go on.

Having played and refereed myself I think I know more about what goes on during a game of football than someone who has never played the game (Just my opinion).

And is there any need to call my point of view rubbish.
Learn some manners my friend.

 

[SmiffyBee]

So I am not intitled to an opinion - you consider it rubbish but there have been referees who have played the game that are in fact more aware of what goes on during a game and you say it wouldn't work - well for your information it already has in the past - Mark Halsey - played to a reasonable level (Cambridge City & Hertford Town) - a few years ago Steve Baines who played for Chesterfield and was a ref on the league for 8 years. Jon Moss a current Prem ref (officiated in our home Cup game with Chelsea) who played as a youngster for Sunderland and Millwal - I could go on.

Having played and refereed myself I think I know more about what goes on during a game of football than someone who has never played the game (Just my opinion).

And is there any need to call my point of view rubbish.
Learn some manners my friend.

I agree with Aberdeen Flyer - Ref's who have played the game have an extra bit of knowledge that helps the game flow
However, I also think that playing and reffing are not happy bedfellows.
Once team mates know they have a ref in their team he is marked out as a weirdo. And the ref / player himself will find himself defending the referee, to the detrement of his team.

 

[Aberdeen flyer]

My problem was that some other teams I played against knew I reffed as well and used to ring me up to do their games whenever they hadn't been given a ref !

I was never at home on Sundays (either playing or reffing or both) and what with watching the Bees home and away on Saturdays I was not the most popular person at home !

By the way SmiffyBee I have never been known to defend a ref officiating in games I was playing in - just the opposite - a few people here will back that up !!

My biggest problem was that a lot of the refs knew me and used to get in my face before a game yet alone during it !!

 

[ladbroke]

By the way SmiffyBee I have never been known to defend a ref officiating in games I was playing in - just the opposite - a few people here will back that up !!

My biggest problem was that a lot of the refs knew me and used to get in my face before a game yet alone during it !!

I have had this problem - that is why, along with not being very good, I stopped playing and concentrated on refereeing. The amount of times the referee knew I was a referee too, and I'd actually get picked on more I thought as they believed that I knew what I was doing and shouldn't. I also used to question a lot of decisions too because from where I was there was a foul not given (or a foul given that should never have been). This led to me being cautioned and sent off a fair few times. I found it unfair. Like yourself, the referee would come up to me before hand and say things like 'I got my eye on you' normally in a joking manner but during the game you start to think otherwise.
The amount of times I have been sent off for F/A language because my rage has got the better of me because of decisions went against me/team that I felt were completely wrong. Come to think of it, the person who has sent me off the most is my own dad - again knowing I am a referee, when I'd next see him his words would be 'you should know better' etc.. so ianbee, if your reading - your a blind, useless, deaf, git lol only kidding dad....

 

[Brentford 4 Life]

So I am not intitled to an opinion - you consider it rubbish but there have been referees who have played the game that are in fact more aware of what goes on during a game and you say it wouldn't work - well for your information it already has in the past - Mark Halsey - played to a reasonable level (Cambridge City & Hertford Town) - a few years ago Steve Baines who played for Chesterfield and was a ref on the league for 8 years. Jon Moss a current Prem ref (officiated in our home Cup game with Chelsea) who played as a youngster for Sunderland and Millwal - I could go on.

Having played and refereed myself I think I know more about what goes on during a game of football than someone who has never played the game (Just my opinion).

And is there any need to call my point of view rubbish.
Learn some manners my friend.

I didnt say you werent entitled to an opinion. Dont be so precious.

I think its rubbish how the media and a number of ex players trot out the same old story (usually whenever a ref has ballsed up) that refereeing should be done by ex players, implying that ex players are more suited and better qualified to referee - which is nonsense.

A good referee is a good referee (he may or may not be an ex player of a decent standard) but his playing skills have very little to do with his ability to ref a match well. Logistically it cant work either (on a large scale).

 

[Aberdeen flyer]

I didnt say you werent entitled to an opinion. Dont be so precious.

I think its rubbish how the media and a number of ex players trot out the same old story (usually whenever a ref has ballsed up) that refereeing should be done by ex players, implying that ex players are more suited and better qualified to referee - which is nonsense.

A good referee is a good referee (he may or may not be an ex player of a decent standard) but his playing skills have very little to do with his ability to ref a match well. Logistically it cant work either (on a large scale).

Just voicing my own opinion which is backed up by facts and I do not accept that it cant work logistically but you ,like me,are entitled to your opinion.

And by the way not accepting rudeness is not being precious as you put it - if you want to be rude to me then do so to my face not online.

 

[sonofabee]

I didnt say you werent entitled to an opinion. Dont be so precious.

I think its rubbish how the media and a number of ex players trot out the same old story (usually whenever a ref has ballsed up) that refereeing should be done by ex players, implying that ex players are more suited and better qualified to referee - which is nonsense.

A good referee is a good referee (he may or may not be an ex player of a decent standard) but his playing skills have very little to do with his ability to ref a match well. Logistically it cant work either (on a large scale).

I kind of agree that someone who isn't necessarily a footballer can be a decent referee. However at park level, in my experience and this ranges from playing at Rymans reserve teams down to watching under 8 kids, you can usually get a pretty good steer on whether the ref is in tune with the players and "gets" football or not pretty quickly. Unfortunately the lower the level, the less engaged the officials. Last month I saw a jobsworth ref book two 11 year old kids who had a little push after a robust tackle led to the other over reacting.
It happened on the touchline and was less than handbags, the kids were 11 and it lasted less than 10 seconds but the ref ran 40 odd yards and called them both over with both sets of parents laughing and expecting that to be it. Upshot was he shouted at them and booked both with the result one burst into tears immediately.

 

[Full Metal Jacket]

Do ex-players make better referees? Well, it probably does confer some advantage. They are more likely for example already to be at (or close to) the required level of fitness, particularly if they are still playing or have only just retired. And they should be very familiar with the sorts of decisions the ref is expected to make.

But I think the nub of the argument is that ex-players already know the sorts of skulduggery that players get up to when they think the ref isn't watching. And a lot of it goes on sometimes! Furthermore, an ex-player understands the physical realities of actually playing the game - so that, for example, he might find it easier to distinguish accidental from deliberate handball, to judge whether a player's raising of the elbow when jumping for an aerial challenge is illegal or to assess how bad a sliding tackle is when one boot is off the ground. These are all things that regularly raise controversy from fans and pundits alike and an ex-player might (if nothing else) command more respect.

Perhaps there is something in this argument, though I wouldn't push it too hard. An experienced referee, whether he has played the game or not, can learn by watching the game and from his own experience of officiating. An intelligent ref should be able to catch up with the practical knowledge of the ex-player quite quickly - certainly long before making it onto the League List.

 

[ladbroke]

It's been questioned about referees locations etc with regard to match appointments ...

But was Mike Dean the right appointment for Sunderland v Chelsea? A referee from the Wirral, near Liverpool, that could have easily influenced the game (was it a penalty - no biased responses here)...
Have to ask the question - should they revert to the old rule of not refereeing in a game where the match has any influence on the town you live in whether director or indirectly?

 

[Hullbee]

Jose congrulated the referee on his performance yesterday what's the problem

 

[nocoat]

It's been questioned about referees locations etc with regard to match appointments ...

But was Mike Dean the right appointment for Sunderland v Chelsea? A referee from the Wirral, near Liverpool, that could have easily influenced the game (was it a penalty - no biased responses here)...
Have to ask the question - should they revert to the old rule of not refereeing in a game where the match has any influence on the town you live in whether director or indirectly?

Every game has an influence. Where does it stop? Who decides how much effect the games have? Only for champions league and title or Europa league or 12th place too?

 

[ladbroke]

Jose congrulated the referee on his performance yesterday what's the problem

Hmmmm... Sense of sarcasm not valid in the hullbee household?

 

[ade211]

Who would be a referee or an assistant? They get one chance to make a call. The game today is very fast, and players often try to deceive the officials.

I can hardly remember when either a losing manager or a fan of the losing team has not criticised the officials. I try not to worry about the officials but concentrate on our players. Ok bound to get frustrated but, on the whole, managers and players should look to themselves before blaming the officials.

 

[Hullbee]

Get Keith Hill in the priemer league