TAPs query!

TAPs query!

Houghton Bee said:
There are still people in the lower tranches, so nothing has changed there beyond the faces, potentially.
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Yes but now those in the higher tranches are more likely to take up the option to buy which is more helpful all round.
 

TAPs query!

LongLostBee said:
Because some people would never catch up in points if they didn’t.
It was maybe sensible to do something, but imo 5 years is too short a period and relative Jonny come latelys, who’ve just done lots more in the PL, start replacing those less “on a mission” to catch up but who’ve supported well for a much longer time.
It’s a double edged sword. It’ll benefit some (probably mostly the youth). It’ll disadvantage the older long-time supporter.
I quite liked our away fan demographic of experienced codgers. Not sure it’ll be as appealing as it shifts more and more towards a BYE crowd.
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There will always be people at the top (look how many people last minute can't make an away game on EVERY away thread on here last season....) and people at the bottom. If everyone 'caught up' we'd all be on broadly similar TAPs and you'd just have tiny trances of, for example, 1500-1480 TAPs, 1479-1455 TAPs, etc.
 

TAPs query!

I am sure the club will send an email soon like last season about your new rolling taps balance and what it means for you and where you sit in position of ST holders (Sure the BIAS team can confirm that the email will come) as I think that will put some minds at rest. For example I lost over 4K Taps last year and started the season on 2140 Taps, this year I have lost 630 Taps, but my balance is 2320 going into this season, so in my mind I’m actually starting 180 Taps higher than I did at the start of last season, and I was fine for any game I wanted to attend last year. Some people will have done more than me and my position in the que may alter slightly, but I don’t think by much. And I’m saying this as a person who was extremely sceptical of the new system and the removal of Taps last year, mainly because I was proud of what I had built up over the years but can see it more clearly this year, so my mindset on this has changed and I think that it’s important that people who go to games more regularly now have the opportunity to get themselves up the line.
 

TAPs query!

nocoat said:
Yes but now those in the higher tranches are more likely to take up the option to buy which is more helpful all round.
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Not to those in the lower tranches who can only pick them up on TAPs-less resale when those who buy in the higher trances have those sudden changes of plans or illness :(

How can they ever make plans or catch up?
 

TAPs query!

Houghton Bee said:
Not to those in the lower tranches who can only pick them up on TAPs-less resale when those who buy in the higher trances have those sudden changes of plans or illness :(

How can they ever make plans or catch up?
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Well the new regime gives them a fighting chances vs the old one !
 

TAPs query!

Noones catching anyone up unless they're going to more games across a 5 year period
 

TAPs query!

LongLostBee said:
I quite liked our away fan demographic of experienced codgers. Not sure it’ll be as appealing as it shifts more and more towards a BYE crowd.
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Once upon a time, today’s experienced codgers were BYE. I’m sure the codgers at the time were tutting into their bowler hats at the mod, skinhead and punk youth.
How do BYE of today become Brentford old codgers if they can’t get tickets to games?
 

TAPs query!

Banana said:
Er... yes

But people that went to more games in the past 4 seasons have more TAPs.

Do you think we should deduct 1,000 TAPs from someone with 10 TAPs??????
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I meant fewer games than me have lost fewer points
 

TAPs query!

Jezybee said:
Once upon a time, today’s experienced codgers were BYE. I’m sure the codgers at the time were tutting into their bowler hats at the mod, skinhead and punk youth.
How do BYE of today become Brentford old codgers if they can’t get tickets to games?
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That would be a question if they couldn't get tickets to games....however I continually meet people getting tickets to games with nothing bar a membership and they don't seem to be having trouble getting a ticket. This isn't really about being able to get tickets for games as it's changed nothing in that regard. All it's really doing is changing access to some of the low capacity or high-demand away games.

Personally, I'd say someone who's 18 and done 5 years of freebies & concessions, isn't more deserving than a 25yr old who's likely spent £15k-£25k, in 5 years, to support the Bees.

I guess the simple answer to your question is they carry on supporting the club and would likely have got into the higher categories in the end even without this change (unless we have 3k+ who're doing almost every game - which seating maps for a lot of aways would suggest isn't the case!)
 
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TAPs query!

nick logan said:
3580 now ! so lost a 1000
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So you started with 3580, which was one of the highest, earned an extra 1000 during the season, then yesterday lost the 1000 you earned in 20-21 putting you back to 3580 which will still be one of tbe highest.

No problem found.
 

TAPs query!

LongLostBee said:
I suppose also that youth replacement factor is potentially more questionable if you consider that a spritely 12-17 year old might have done lots of games on dad’s chequebook, at discounted prices, and never paid for anything themselves.
Turns 18 and replaces someone who’s forked out £2k/season following the Bees but been to a few less games each season (I suspect a lot more than £2k really as I reckon an away day is comfortably an average of £200 including mandatory 🍻).
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LongLostBee said:
That would be a question if they couldn't get tickets to games....however I continually meet people getting tickets to games with nothing bar a membership and they don't seem to be having trouble getting a ticket. This isn't really about being able to get tickets for games as it's changed nothing in that regard. All it's really doing is changing access to some of the low capacity or high-demand away games.

Personally, I'd say someone who's 18 and done 5 years of freebies & concessions, isn't more deserving than a 25yr old who's likely spent £15k-£25k, in 5 years, to support the Bees.

I guess the simple answer to your question is they carry on supporting the club and would likely have got into the higher categories in the end even without this change (unless we have 3k+ who're doing almost every game - which seating maps for a lot of aways would suggest isn't the case!)
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Tell me more about this wedge you are trying to drive between different groups of supporters! :oops:

As you appear to acknowledge in your second message nobody spending a significant sum on watching the team is "being replaced"
 

TAPs query!

Jay Bee said:
Tell me more about this wedge you are trying to drive between different groups of supporters! :oops:

As you appear to acknowledge in your second message nobody spending a significant sum on watching the team is "being replaced"
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:rolleyes:reading is not your strong point.
 

TAPs query!

If people don’t like how many points they lose each summer then simply start to attend few games?
 

TAPs query!

LongLostBee said:
:rolleyes:reading is not your strong point.
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You think juniors shouldn't be allowed to accumulate loyalty at the same rate as others because their parents are paying for them and I also because their tickets are cheaper. You appear to be claiming that this is unfair on hardworking 20 somethings who are being "forced out" despite spending £2,000 a year (or up £5,000 a year in the second post) on following us.

I don't agree with that suggestion that juniors should be a second class of fan when accumulating loyalty for several reasons. But my point really was why invent a topic to argue about, nobody else posting was announcing themselves in either of the categories you're talking about, so who are you trying to stand up for? Feels like you're fishing for an argument around a topic people have debated a lot already.

If I've missed the real point - because I no read good - maybe you can explain what you are really talking about.
 

TAPs query!

Jay Bee said:
You think juniors shouldn't be allowed to accumulate loyalty at the same rate as others because their parents are paying for them and I also because their tickets are cheaper. You appear to be claiming that this is unfair on hardworking 20 somethings who are being "forced out" despite spending £2,000 a year (or up £5,000 a year in the second post) on following us.

I don't agree with that suggestion that juniors should be a second class of fan when accumulating loyalty for several reasons. But my point really was why invent a topic to argue about, nobody else posting was announcing themselves in either of the categories you're talking about, so who are you trying to stand up for? Feels like you're fishing for an argument around a topic people have debated a lot already.

If I've missed the real point - because I no read good - maybe you can explain what you are really talking about.
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It was pretty simple...
I said I didn't think they really needed to change the system but understand why they did.
I said that I don't think it'll make a huge difference for most games, other than that you might get yoofs clocking up a load of cheap attendance, that will potentially start to out-point someone who has to consider cost as more of a factor (let alone real-world adult priorities) and therefore doesn't clock up as many points.
I said that I quite enjoy our away crowd, with huge amounts of familiar faces and long histories of support, and that it might not be as appealing if that was progressively replaced by a lot more "jonny come latelys".
If they hadn't changed the system, the grim reaper would have ensured some of those top tappers disappear every year, and people going all the time would start to catch up everyone else too, barring those doing huge amounts of games....which isn't going to be huge numbers of people.
So, imo, it didn't really need fixing, and I don't really think it's a good thing, but it is what it is, and unlikely to change now.
 

TAPs query!

LongLostBee said:
It was pretty simple...
I said I didn't think they really needed to change the system but understand why they did.
I said that I don't think it'll make a huge difference for most games, other than that you might get yoofs clocking up a load of cheap attendance, that will potentially start to out-point someone who has to consider cost as more of a factor (let alone real-world adult priorities) and therefore doesn't clock up as many points.
I said that I quite enjoy our away crowd, with huge amounts of familiar faces and long histories of support, and that it might not be as appealing if that was progressively replaced by a lot more "jonny come latelys".
If they hadn't changed the system, the grim reaper would have ensured some of those top tappers disappear every year, and people going all the time would start to catch up everyone else too, barring those doing huge amounts of games....which isn't going to be huge numbers of people.
So, imo, it didn't really need fixing, and I don't really think it's a good thing, but it is what it is, and unlikely to change now.
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OK. I think the change was logical even if the optics of it weren't kind to some long time fans who now attend less frequently - but you have your opinion and I have mine. The fact that it hasn't changed much has been an argument put forwards on both sides i.e. "why complain about change if it's not caused much trouble" vs "why change it at all if it's not an issue and little has changed" etc.

The reason I think your "youths get cheap loyalty" point is not really an issue is that I don't think any regulars are getting squeezed out, least of all people that actually go to away games and spend the sums you are describing. If 15-16 out of 19 away games (or whatever the total is) go on sale to members it's more about giving current top attendees first access and hopefully building their loyalty further and getting people planning ahead and going to more games. The losers from the change aren't those spending thousands, if anyone it's people like my friends who only do 1 or 2 aways now and used to do more a decade go. I think it's fair they no longer get first access to Fulham and Bournemouth, especially if they just end up buying their ticket and passing it to a friend anyway.

I think assessing people's real loyalty based on their actual cost of attendance and their ability to pay is a real minefield and it is impossible to be totally fair. Suggestions have likewise been made about whether northern bees fans fairly get 40-50 TAPs for a short journey to Liverpool or Manchester but only 10-15 for a journey to London. It may not be totally fair but the alternative is very complex and even more open to manipulation.
 

TAPs query!

Genuine question are there any other clubs that do this?

Build my TAPs during the Championship seasons, for different personal reasons couldn’t attend the first premier league seasons regularly and woke up last year that someone who attended 4-5 games in Premier League could buy a ticket before me.
 

TAPs query!

Baubaul said:
Genuine question are there any other clubs that do this?

Build my TAPs during the Championship seasons, for different personal reasons couldn’t attend the first premier league seasons regularly and woke up last year that someone who attended 4-5 games in Premier League could buy a ticket before me.
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Yes.
West Ham's loyalty system only counts the one previous season and the current season in progress.
Middlesbrough did their play off final allocation using points accrued in the current season with no recognition of the past.

Reading had a never expiring loyalty system counting points back to the mid-00s and wiped most of them too.

Those are three that I know about there must be loads of others.
 

TAPs query!

Jay Bee said:
OK. I think the change was logical even if the optics of it weren't kind to some long time fans who now attend less frequently - but you have your opinion and I have mine. The fact that it hasn't changed much has been an argument put forwards on both sides i.e. "why complain about change if it's not caused much trouble" vs "why change it at all if it's not an issue and little has changed" etc.

The reason I think your "youths get cheap loyalty" point is not really an issue is that I don't think any regulars are getting squeezed out, least of all people that actually go to away games and spend the sums you are describing. If 15-16 out of 19 away games (or whatever the total is) go on sale to members it's more about giving current top attendees first access and hopefully building their loyalty further and getting people planning ahead and going to more games. The losers from the change aren't those spending thousands, if anyone it's people like my friends who only do 1 or 2 aways now and used to do more a decade go. I think it's fair they no longer get first access to Fulham and Bournemouth, especially if they just end up buying their ticket and passing it to a friend anyway.

I think assessing people's real loyalty based on their actual cost of attendance and their ability to pay is a real minefield and it is impossible to be totally fair. Suggestions have likewise been made about whether northern bees fans fairly get 40-50 TAPs for a short journey to Liverpool or Manchester but only 10-15 for a journey to London. It may not be totally fair but the alternative is very complex and even more open to manipulation.
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As a northern Bee ST I think I’d get a lot of stick for rebalancing TAPs to give northerners fewer TAPs for northern aways and more for home games.

It’d pretty much make me one of the top TAPpers just from the 40 I’d get for every home game!

On the “youths” point, one of the things we’ve seen over the last few years is quite how many under 18s have done a very high proportion of home games and got STs each year. The TAPs thresholds for STs this season were surprisingly high after the change to rolling TAPs and that suggests we have a lot of “new Brentford” and old who are still going to a lot of games home and away. Both those things are I think very good news about the health of our ability to attract future committed long term fans, all of whom will have had to attend and spend a load more than us long termers who got STs before promotion while also being behind us in priority to buy away tickets.
 

TAPs query!

Baubaul said:
Genuine question are there any other clubs that do this?

Build my TAPs during the Championship seasons, for different personal reasons couldn’t attend the first premier league seasons regularly and woke up last year that someone who attended 4-5 games in Premier League could buy a ticket before me.
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Spurs do, pretty much a closed shop according to my Spurs ST holding mate. He's won the right to buy an away ticket via their ballot once in something like 8 years of trying on and off.
 

TAPs query!

South Acton Bee said:
Where does it what you have lost ?
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Don't use the app, waste of time. On the ticketing website go to your account management and then account history.
 

TAPs query!

Houghton Bee said:
Don't use the app, waste of time. On the ticketing website go to your account management and then account history.
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Or wait for the email which will be with you soon
 

TAPs query!

hobbsy said:
Or wait for the email which will be with you soon
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Exactly what I’m going to do! There’s nothing right now that requires a TAP balance, so nothing urgent to concern me.
 

TAPs query!

Those worrying about Muff, hopefully we will get 2,000 once the Vitality is finished.
 

TAPs query!

StevieSteve said:
So you started with 3580, which was one of the highest, earned an extra 1000 during the season, then yesterday lost the 1000 you earned in 20-21 putting you back to 3580 which will still be one of tbe highest.

No problem found.
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Except that 2020/21 was not counted in the first place, TAPs lost were from 2021/22 season.

Little perspective from my point of view... I spent around £5400 last season on accommodation and travel alone and got 215 TAP points from 17 home matches.
 

TAPs query!

Hakonen_72 said:
Except that 2020/21 was not counted in the first place, TAPs lost were from 2021/22 season.

Little perspective from my point of view... I spent around £5400 last season on accommodation and travel alone and got 215 TAP points from 17 home matches.
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Fantastic support mate
 

TAPs query!

Banana said:
Every. Single. Club.

I don't believe that any give recognition to attendance as long as Brentford do however.
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The nearest to it I think is Sunderland who continue to give ultra cheap STs to those who stuck with them when they got relegated to L1.
 

TAPs query!

Baubaul said:
Genuine question are there any other clubs that do this?

Build my TAPs during the Championship seasons, for different personal reasons couldn’t attend the first premier league seasons regularly and woke up last year that someone who attended 4-5 games in Premier League could buy a ticket before me.
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The first Premier League season you missed doesn’t count anymore. So that works in your favour now.
Someone who attended 4-5 Premier League games would have a maximum 90 Taps.
If you’ve been coming regularly in the last 3 years you should be well above them on Taps by now?
 
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TAPs query!

Hakonen_72 said:
Except that 2020/21 was not counted in the first place, TAPs lost were from 2021/22 season.

Little perspective from my point of view... I spent around £5400 last season on accommodation and travel alone and got 215 TAP points from 17 home matches.
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yeah if I start counting the money spent I’ll get in trouble 🤣🤣🤣
 

TAPs query!

-620

Down to just under 2,000.
 
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