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Team vs Forest (A)

BFC1997

BFC1997

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Team vs Forest (A)

Right then.

Despite defeat, we’ve had a mini midweek confidence boost with a more encouraging display against Arsenal. Much needed after the Everton game.

We move onto this Forest game and we’ve got a few choices to make around shape and personnel:

- Do we go 4-3-3 or 5-3-2?
- If we got 5-3-2, does Ajer or Zanka get the nod?
- Do we change anything up at full-back?
- Does Maupay come in?
- Does Olakigbe or Lewis-Potter start on the left (if we go with a front three)?

Below is what I would do.

Perhaps harsh on Collins. And it’s probably very unlikely that Olakigbe will start ahead of Maupay and KLP in a front three, so totally get I’ll be in a minority there.

IMG_2393.jpeg
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Flekken
Ajer Collins Pinnock Hickey
Janelt Norgaard Jensen
Mbeumo Maupay KLP

Strakosha, Zanka, Roerslev, Onyeka, Yarmoliuk, Brierley, Ghoddos, Olakigbe, Wissa

If we were playing a 3-5-2 I’d give Ghoddos the nod, but I don’t think Forest is a good game for that, and in a 4-3-3 I don’t see where he fits.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

No way we go 4-3-3. Only change from tonight is Onyeka sacked off to the bench and Jensen back in.

Flekken, Roerslev, Collins, Zanka, Pinnock, Hickey, Norgaard, Janelt, Jensen, Mbeumo, Wissa.

Subs: Strakosha, Ajer, Ghoddos, Onyeka, KLP, Maupay, Yarmoliuk, Olakigbe, Brierley.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Mr Cynical said:
No way we go 4-3-3. Only change from tonight is Onyeka sacked off to the bench and Jensen back in.

Flekken, Roerslev, Collins, Zanka, Pinnock, Hickey, Norgaard, Janelt, Jensen, Mbeumo, Wissa.

Subs: Strakosha, Ajer, Ghoddos, Onyeka, KLP, Maupay, Yarmoliuk, Olakigbe, Brierley.
Click to expand...
So far it’s been 4-3-3 against everyone except:

Newcastle
Spurs
Arsenal

So it’s plausible we continue with only using 3-5-2 against the big guns.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

5-3-2, keep it tight, let the flair and pacey players try and open them up.

Same as tonight with Jensen and maybe Ajer/Maupay.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

5-3-2 all the way. Jensen to come in for FTT and leave the rest the same. Flekken would benefit from a consistent defence in front of him as well to further improve
 

Team vs Forest (A)

With our only decent wingback injured, I'd play a back 3, so we can play ;Ghoddos, KLP, Janelt or Mbeumo as right and left progressive mids. Despite the loss tonight, I thoroughly enjoyed the second half.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

BFC1997 said:
So far it’s been 4-3-3 against everyone except:

Newcastle
Spurs
Arsenal

So it’s plausible we continue with only using 3-5-2 against the big guns.
Click to expand...
It's possible, but with our lack of attacking options, I think it's unlikely at this point.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

433

Flekken
Roerslev Collins pinnock Hickey
Janelt nørgaard Jensen
Mbeumo Maupay KLP

Was tempted to say ajer over roerslev but I think hickeys best work on the left comes the further forward he can get, and despite being nominally a centreback when ajer plays fullback his strength is in surging forward whereas roerslev keeps it tighter with the positional discipline, so roerslev goes in to balance hickey

Midfield picks itself, I want to see ghoddos or Yarmoliuk come on before onyeka though please when it's time to sub someone off, unless we're defending a lead. Both as a form thing and also because the big struggle against everton was an inability to string passes together and hold onto possession, which is the biggest weakness of Oneykas game

Wissa dropped cos for whatever reason his finishing seems to suffer when he plays the full 90, maybe he needs that urgency of being a sub and needing to prove himself again to get that strikers hunger back. +obviously want to see what Maupay can do
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Flekken
Collins Zanka Pinnock
Ghoddos Jensen Norgaard Janelt Hickey
Mbeumo Maupay

Subs
Balcolmbe/Strakosha
Ayer
Kim
Roerslev
Onyeka
Yarmoliuk
Wissa
LewisPotter
Olakigbe
 
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Team vs Forest (A)

Jensen for Onyeka which presumably means we stay with 532. Our default tactic is to make subs on the hour so, especially if we are chasing, I would expect to see Maupay, Ghoddos, and KLP then. Tempted to bring Ajer in for Roerslev.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Looking through all the comments here, they are understandably focused only on our players and how we think they've been playing recently.

I suppose what sets Thomas and his coaching staff apart when it comes to picking the side is a detailed analysis of how Forest play, their strengths and weaknesses etc. Then setup partly to counter this while exploiting our strengths.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Given the injury crisis and the opposition, a more attack-minded 3-5-2 would be my ideal ie:

Flekken

Ajer Collins Pinnock

Hickey Jensen Norgaard Janelt Keane-Potter

Mbeumo Wissa (one more go!)

But, I have no expectation this will be the team! I just hope TF resists the temptation to go back to 433, with Roerslev at RB
 

Team vs Forest (A)

The Joker said:
Looking through all the comments here, they are understandably focused only on our players and how we think they've been playing recently.

I suppose what sets Thomas and his coaching staff apart when it comes to picking the side is a detailed analysis of how Forest play, their strengths and weaknesses etc. Then setup partly to counter this while exploiting our strengths.
Click to expand...
Not watched a lot of Forest but when I have their biggest threats are Gibbs-White and Hudson-Odoi. The game I watched which was against Burnley I think, they mainly attacked down their left side through Hudson-Odoi, who was cutting in on to his right foot and shooting. Whoever plays right back will have a difficult time. Difficult place to play and need to keep the crowd quiet.

Would be happy with 5-3-2 and being difficult to breakdown. Their defence isn't the best and think we could stretch them in the counter and exploit their defence
 

Team vs Forest (A)

I doubt Thomas will deviate much from the Arsenal game. Certainly Jensen for Onyeka but it may be worthwhile using Ajer to replace Zanka to give some more pace to the CB’s around Pinnock.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

I'm with Mr C on this. I think. we will start with a back 3 as against Arsenal. Then, the usual attacking changes to the line up later on.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Flekken
Ajer Zanka Collins Pinnock Hickey
Norgaard Jensen KLP
Maupay Mbeumo
 

Team vs Forest (A)

James30 said:
Flekken
Ajer Zanka Collins Pinnock Hickey
Norgaard Jensen KLP
Maupay Mbeumo
Click to expand...

Can’t see:

Ajer playing as a wing back
Pinnock being played on the left of the three
KLP playing in the midfield three
 

Team vs Forest (A)

4-3-3. Let's believe in this progression. Wissa is a good finisher - form is temporary and all that.

Flekken

Ajer, Collins, Pinnock, Hickey

Norgaard, Janelt, Jensen

Mbuemo, Wissa, KLP


Maupay off the bench

If we go 5-3-2, we're not going to learn anything. Let's go for it.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

BFC1997 said:
Can’t see:

Ajer playing as a wing back
Pinnock being played on the left of the three
KLP playing in the midfield three
Click to expand...
Only way Pinnock plays left is the slight possibility TF puts Zanka in the middle. Collins won't be central that's for sure
 

Team vs Forest (A)

red_and_white said:
4-3-3. Let's believe in this progression. Wissa is a good finisher - form is temporary and all that.

Flekken

Ajer, Collins, Pinnock, Hickey

Norgaard, Janelt, Jensen

Mbuemo, Wissa, KLP


Maupay off the bench

If we go 5-3-2, we're not going to learn anything. Let's go for it.
Click to expand...
We “win or learn”, so I’ll be delighted if we don’t learn anything on Sunday.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Flekken
Roerslev
Zanka
Collins
Pinnock
Hickey
Norgaard
Janelt
Jensen
Mbuemo
Maupay

Think we will go 352 to make us more solid - toss up between Roerslev/Ajer and Maupay/Wissa but Roerslev is better defensively and Wissa is missing chances
 

Team vs Forest (A)

BFC1997 said:
Can’t see:

Ajer playing as a wing back
Pinnock being played on the left of the three
KLP playing in the midfield three
Click to expand...
Not saying you’re wrong, just wondering why you think this is? Pinnock has played left CB of 3 plenty in the past. Is it just to have our best defender in the middle? I know Collins would be best RCB so he can play the long diagonals, but wouldn’t we have better balance with Zanka in the middle and Ethan LCB?
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Flekken
Ghoddas, Collins, Pinnock, Zanka, Hickey
Norgaard, Janelt Jensen
Maupay Mbeumo
 

Team vs Forest (A)

red_and_white said:
4-3-3. Let's believe in this progression. Wissa is a good finisher - form is temporary and all that.

Flekken

Ajer, Collins, Pinnock, Hickey

Norgaard, Janelt, Jensen

Mbuemo, Wissa, KLP


Maupay off the bench

If we go 5-3-2, we're not going to learn anything. Let's go for it.
Click to expand...

I don't think this season is going to be about learning things. It's going to be about grinding out results.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

80s Bee said:
Not saying you’re wrong, just wondering why you think this is? Pinnock has played left CB of 3 plenty in the past. Is it just to have our best defender in the middle? I know Collins would be best RCB so he can play the long diagonals, but wouldn’t we have better balance with Zanka in the middle and Ethan LCB?
Click to expand...
I agree with you somewhat and I’m not saying that Ethan can’t play that role, he can.

It’s just it was a deliberate tactical change Frank made early-ish last season to move Pinnock to the middle of the three; I do seem to recall that when Mee/Jansson/Zanka were played in that role instead they were getting isolated with opposition forwards and their lack of pace was getting exposed.

We’ve stuck with the change pretty religiously since making it, and since Mee has been unavailable we’ve played Ajer and Zanka (both right-footed) on that side.

So I just don’t see that Frank would change it now?
 

Team vs Forest (A)

532
Flekken
Hickey
Collins
Mee
Pinnock
Ghoddos
Norgaard
Janelt
Jensen
Wissa
Mbeumo
 

Team vs Forest (A)

magicbees said:
I don't think this season is going to be about learning things. It's going to be about grinding out results.
Click to expand...
I think TF likes to learn and doesn’t like to grind. That’s why he’s made mistakes and learned from them and persisted with things until he’s discovered a better solution rather than tinker or overreact to individual results. It’s the basis of our success. That’s not to say he can’t be pragmatic and grind if it’s needed, just that his and the club’s ethos from MB down is to be bold and believe in going for the win. Better to learn and improve than to park the bus and hope to scrape through. Because if that doesn’t work you’ve nothing left beyond throwing caution to the wind when in a poor position and finding the players can’t adjust to it having put themselves in a negative frame of mind and not learned how to do more.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Gazza Bee said:
Flekken
Roerslev
Zanka
Collins
Pinnock
Hickey
Norgaard
Janelt
Jensen
Mbuemo
Maupay

Think we will go 352 to make us more solid - toss up between Roerslev/Ajer and Maupay/Wissa but Roerslev is better defensively and Wissa is missing chances
Click to expand...

He wasn't last Saturday and has not looked confident in many games he has played so far.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Do you
A start the strongest team? Or
B save something for the bench?

I think we will follow almost exactly the Arsenal approach, (bar Matti/Frank switch) which means we have attacking options off the bench in KLP, Maupay, Ghodos, Ajer, all being more attacking than those they replace.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Do we tend to go 532 when chasing a game? Is a very attacking 532 better than 433? Personally I do like when we really go for it and put klp at lwb, mbeumo at rwb (should he be higher?)and throw other attackers on like maupay and olakigbe. I just don't know for sure if the chaos is better than keeping a 433 and replacing some players for more energy.

On Sunday I would like to see an attacking 532 and then even more attacking changes if we're drawing or losing at 60 mins with ghoddos coming on for roerslev and then eventually maupay replacing wissa and klp replacing hickey (who hopefully has been dashing forward all game) at lwb. I think tf has made really good use of ajer as a weirdly attacking sub but I would like to see him start. Add in olakigbe and that's pretty much as attacking as we can go at the moment. I am quite hopeful that we can perform well on Sunday with some more defensive solidity as one layer and then slick attacking play as another.

If we're winning I'd sub on zanka for collins/ajer, onyeka for janelt and then like for likes to keep the energy up. We have been much weaker at closing out games and I think this is down to the lack of depth we have at the moment. I expect far fewer late goals for us and more shaky/messy hard working finishes to games.

I'd appreciate some insight as to whether 532 or 433 is better for turning a game around when we're losing from anyone who knows more about football than me (most of you!).
 

Team vs Forest (A)

MusBeeLove said:
Do we tend to go 532 when chasing a game? Is a very attacking 532 better than 433? Personally I do like when we really go for it and put klp at lwb, mbeumo at rwb (should he be higher?)and throw other attackers on like maupay and olakigbe. I just don't know for sure if the chaos is better than keeping a 433 and replacing some players for more energy.

On Sunday I would like to see an attacking 532 and then even more attacking changes if we're drawing or losing at 60 mins with ghoddos coming on for roerslev and then eventually maupay replacing wissa and klp replacing hickey (who hopefully has been dashing forward all game) at lwb. I think tf has made really good use of ajer as a weirdly attacking sub but I would like to see him start. Add in olakigbe and that's pretty much as attacking as we can go at the moment. I am quite hopeful that we can perform well on Sunday with some more defensive solidity as one layer and then slick attacking play as another.

If we're winning I'd sub on zanka for collins/ajer, onyeka for janelt and then like for likes to keep the energy up. We have been much weaker at closing out games and I think this is down to the lack of depth we have at the moment. I expect far fewer late goals for us and more shaky/messy hard working finishes to games.

I'd appreciate some insight as to whether 532 or 433 is better for turning a game around when we're losing from anyone who knows more about football than me (most of you!).
Click to expand...
I think we finished the Arsenal game in a 3-4-3, although when you have so many quick substitutions it's hard to be exact in which position people are playing.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Such an awkward one this. I prefer us in 532 hands down, but is there a need to do it against such an average Forest team?

My gut says because of the 8-9 players we have missing i'd go 532 and grind out a result, and keep doing so until we have some players back.

I'd also persist with Wissa. He's feeling the pressure at the moment but his pace is so effective in this formation. I'd like to see Ajer given a go at RWB as he has more pace going forward than our other fit defenders.

Flekken

Ajer
Pinnock
Zanka
Collins
Hickey

Norgaard
Jensen
Janelt

Mbeumo
Wissa

Subs to be made:

Maupay
KLP
Ghoddos
Roerslev
Onyeka
 

Team vs Forest (A)

cliffbee said:
I think we finished the Arsenal game in a 3-4-3, although when you have so many quick substitutions it's hard to be exact in which position people are playing.
Click to expand...
I think, when we’re chasing a game in the final 20 minutes or so, the idea of strict formations goes out of the window. A few times we’ve seen a 2-at-the-back, a couple holding deeper in midfield and everyone else piled forward!
 
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Team vs Forest (A)

upnorthbee said:
Such an awkward one this. I prefer us in 532 hands down, but is there a need to do it against such an average Forest team?

My gut says because of the 8-9 players we have missing i'd go 532 and grind out a result, and keep doing so until we have some players back.

I'd also persist with Wissa. He's feeling the pressure at the moment but his pace is so effective in this formation. I'd like to see Ajer given a go at RWB as he has more pace going forward than our other fit defenders.

Flekken

Ajer
Pinnock
Zanka
Collins
Hickey

Norgaard
Jensen
Janelt

Mbeumo
Wissa

Subs to be made:

Maupay
KLP
Ghoddos
Roerslev
Onyeka
Click to expand...
I think forest have made some decent signings and will be a tough game …
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Ghoddos deserves his start, looked positive on Wednesday and keeps Mbeumo in the game on the right going forward. Wissa off the bench is better too, he has been misfiring for a few games now and is a good option as a game finisher. The only drawback once again is the severe lack of height up front with Maupay doing nothing to change that. We really need to play quicker through the lines getting the Forest defense to turn..but the main objective on Sunday must be a clean sheet
 

Team vs Forest (A)

Forest have lost twice in their last 17 home league games. They have failed to score in only one of those.
This is going to be very difficult.
 

Team vs Forest (A)

clactonbee said:
Forest have lost twice in their last 17 home league games. They have failed to score in only one of those.
This is going to be very difficult.
Click to expand...
Similar home record to us until last Saturday so let’s keep the faith!
 

Team vs Forest (A)

I dont fully understand why anybody would want our third best right back /Wing back in Ghoddos to be starting.
Roerslev and Ajer are streets ahead of him UNLESS we play a 3-5-2 formation with the wing backs playing more as midfielders.
I like Ghoddos, but would not be happy with him starting over Ajer or - in particular - Roerslev.
 
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