The John Mackie thread
maybe for Arsenal pal but not for a league two side signing a good solid pro.
The John Mackie thread
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maybe for Arsenal pal but not for a league two side signing a good solid pro.
SpiderBee
Surrey Wyvern
The John Mackie thread
ex-Sutton United btw!
Thought I mentioned him to Coppell some years back!
Then he played for Reading!
Thought I mentioned him to Coppell some years back!
Then he played for Reading!
rebus
On my final warning
The John Mackie thread
So Arsenal having a policy for players over thirty is okay but not for us. Please explain.
The John Mackie thread
So Arsenal having a policy for players over thirty is okay but not for us. Please explain.
Uh Doh they are the fourth best team in the country and play in the premiership and champions league so they need their players to be at the very top of the game, fitness, speed, agility and as you get older these things slip by depending on how hard you are able to work your body.
In League Two we will need seasoned Pro's who have looked after themselves despite not playing at the highest level and are still capable of performing week in week out. Age is a key factor when we have 9 or 10 retained youngsters so we need to bring in an experienced leader with a good games played ratio and fitness record...Andy Scott clearly thinks Mackie fits that bill or else he would not have recommended him.
havelockbee
Member
The John Mackie thread
So Arsenal having a policy for players over thirty is okay but not for us. Please explain.
Because less player's over 30 can still cut it at the level of football Arsenal are aiming for and so they dont want to commit the high wages for so long.
If he is to be captain and can give this side a leader on the pitch, I'm for it. But we need to off load at least 2 of the higher paid contract players in this category for it to really add up financially. I hope this will be the case
The O's Frogman
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The John Mackie thread
He'll do a job for you. Yes, he can be stupid and get sent off, yes, he's a bit slow, however he's a very good League 2 defender. Not quite League 1 standard but probably good enough to help you get out of League 2. He'll give his all and is a good leader. Orient missed him when he was suspended just before the end of the season. I think that it's a pretty good signing for you.
Nick Hester
Formerly known as Greenholme Bee
The John Mackie thread
Don't patronise us..
Not good enough for Orient but will do well for us???
Learn your history.
The O's Frogman
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The John Mackie thread
Face facts Greenholme, you are in League 2, we are in League 1. Not patronising at all to say that a player is a capable League 2 player but not quite League 1 standard. I'd guess that if you get promoted next season and then manage to stay in League 1 the following season then you'll release Mackie, just like we have. If you'd not have got relegated then I doubt that you'd have signed Mackie, he'd have gone to a different League 2 club. As it is he's a pretty good signing for you. Or do you expect Butcher to secure the signings of Wayne Rooney, John Terry and Thierry Henry during this close season?
YorkshireBeeAng
confused of Huddersfield
Idaho Bee
Well-known member
The John Mackie thread
Another old Sutton United boy joins the Bee's. :bound:
I just hope he's not another Ricky Newman!
I just hope he's not another Ricky Newman!
Westlad
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The John Mackie thread
Seems a decent player and one who'll give 100% judging by what most of the Orient fans say. Speaking of Orient fans it's nice that despite being a league below them they still regard us as rivals, since rivalries are about jealousy and you always hate the bigger club, for example some of our fans hate Fulham, who in turn dont care about us but hate Chelsea, who are more interested in hating Arsenal...
It's an compliment!
It's an compliment!
hanworthbee
Well-known member
The John Mackie thread
So Arsenal having a policy for players over thirty is okay but not for us. Please explain.
I wonder if Henry will only get a years contract when he turns 30?
rebus
On my final warning
The John Mackie thread
lol
So that doesn't apply to League Two players then.
Clubs apply this rule as it is fiscally sensible - much needed at BFC - and it also keeps players on their toes. Being hungry gives you that extra 10%.
How many players do you think have been on cruise control in the past season at Brentford knowing they've got another year or two to go?
Contrary to popular belief BFC don't have a glowing mountain of cash reserves - in face it's very much the opposite.
Ace Face
Well-known member
The John Mackie thread
Two year contract! Will we ever frigging learn???
What if he is sh*t like Heywood?
What if he does his knee ligaments in April 08 and is out for a season?
I can see no justification in giving a Orient reject over 30 a 2yr deal. If he was 21 and a good prospect who could/m,ight demand a fee then possibly. But with us losing £10k a week, why do we want to increase our liabilities?
What if he is sh*t like Heywood?
What if he does his knee ligaments in April 08 and is out for a season?
I can see no justification in giving a Orient reject over 30 a 2yr deal. If he was 21 and a good prospect who could/m,ight demand a fee then possibly. But with us losing £10k a week, why do we want to increase our liabilities?
Brain-dead Bee
Ancient member
The John Mackie thread
I think for any club, Arsenal or Brentford (though at different levels of expectation and reward) you have to look at the market. Arsenal presumably offer pay to match almost any club, Champions League football etc so can afford to say "take it or leave it" to most players. We shouldn't be held over a barrel, but may find that a reasonable League 2 player aged 30-31 can expect a 2 year contract as the norm, so won't come to us if we won't match the competition. One year at Arsenal also provides a decent amount of financial security, whereas I doubt if League 2 players get enough to put much aside for the future
rebus
On my final warning
The John Mackie thread
Two year contract! Will we ever frigging learn???
What if he is sh*t like Heywood?
What if he does his knee ligaments in April 08 and is out for a season?
I can see no justification in giving a Orient reject over 30 a 2yr deal. If he was 21 and a good prospect who could/m,ight demand a fee then possibly. But with us losing £10k a week, why do we want to increase our liabilities?
lol Bish you are wasting your time. We are both clearly in a minority here.
Ace Face
Well-known member
The John Mackie thread
I agree to some extent Mark that the club should have offerred a year deal plus a club option in my opinion (I think this is the way forward)
Maybe, this was mentioned in the negotiation of the deal and the weekly wage was perhaps lowered for a longer two year deal. AS must know him very well and he seems to be a very good leader, by reports on him, and I am presuming he will be the captain next season.
Not sure being hungry gives an extra 10% - some people may give extra for more financial security than the year deal perhaps. (Before I get shot down, yes I am fully aware that some players dont - ala Brooker etc.)
Perhaps the players had it too easy under the previous two managers, and therefore, switched the cruise control buttons to 'ON'.
Oh and I am fully aware that the club does not have a mountain of cash, maybe this needs to be communicated more!!!
The John Mackie thread
Two year contract! Will we ever frigging learn???
What if he is sh*t like Heywood?
What if he does his knee ligaments in April 08 and is out for a season?
I can see no justification in giving a Orient reject over 30 a 2yr deal. If he was 21 and a good prospect who could/m,ight demand a fee then possibly. But with us losing £10k a week, why do we want to increase our liabilities?
I sort of agree that over 30's should be only offered 1 year with maybe an option for a 2nd. However it is more likely that an experienced 30 year old at our level will succeed over 2 years, than a 21 year old of unproven stock a vast majority of whom fall out of the pro game.
longdistancebee
Active member
The John Mackie thread
I know i am going to get some stick for this, but we must wake up and smell the coffee. To the outside world we are a sh1t little Div 4 team, and we are going to have to pick up the scrapings others dont want, and to get those scrapings, we are going to have to give them good deals or they will not come to us and we will end up with last season's dross and be Conference-bound. We are not Arsenal, people.
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The John Mackie thread
Well I agree with the pair of you
Cant see whats wrong with 12 months with 12 months option {loaded in our favour} on virtually all our players. This protects us from people walking away for zilch but we can also say adios if they prove to be pants signings. Why we didnt do this for Kuffour is a mystery to me, its probably cost us a six figure fee
The only exceptions i`d make for this would be for top prospects like Charlie who could well be worth serious money to us in the future, and should be on proper first teamers money now IMHO
The John Mackie thread
Well I agree with the pair of you
Cant see whats wrong with 12 months with 12 months option {loaded in our favour} on virtually all our players. This protects us from people walking away for zilch but we can also say adios if they prove to be pants signings. Why we didnt do this for Kuffour is a mystery to me, its probably cost us a six figure fee
The only exceptions i`d make for this would be for top prospects like Charlie who could well be worth serious money to us in the future, and should be on proper first teamers money now IMHO
The obvious issue is that players of this age won't accept the deal if there's no security of a second year.
afrimleybee
Member
The John Mackie thread
1 year + 1 year option exercised by the club v 2 year contract
It's a bit of a no brainer
It's a bit of a no brainer
rebus
On my final warning
The John Mackie thread
Well the board of that club should be sounding him out prior to the approach. League two defenders are ten a penny so we should not keep getting mugged over.
The John Mackie thread
But we signed a League One defender :thumbs:
Seriously though if this isn't club policy then how can we blame the manager?
rebus
On my final warning
The John Mackie thread
He's playing League two football.
I have never blamed TB or any previous manager regarding contract offers. It is always down the board to set the parameters.
The John Mackie thread
I just feel the board should have a policy on contracts/wages etc and stick to it. At times we dont act like a club millions in the red.
There are dozens of players sweating on finding clubs and - unlike last year - we will be in a position to snap some up quickly before they have all got fixed up.
In some ways we are in a better position this summer to say "take it or leave it" than last year, we`re a big fish in a small pond now and players who end up in our division will see us an attractive option in relation to other options. Hopefully
longdistancebee
Active member
The John Mackie thread
I just feel the board should have a policy on contracts/wages etc and stick to it. At times we dont act like a club millions in the red.
There are dozens of players sweating on finding clubs and - unlike last year - we will be in a position to snap some up quickly before they have all got fixed up.
In some ways we are in a better position this summer to say "take it or leave it" than last year, we`re a big fish in a small pond now and players who end up in our division will see us an attractive option in relation to other options. Hopefully
I think that Terry Butcher is no mug. Yes i know that he may be ham-strung by a Board of staggering incompetence, but he is enough of a 'name' to not want to risk his reputation by being sold a pup, and i think that the fact that has taken the job as manager is indicative that he believes he can do a good job. He knows the score and if he thinks that John Mackie, and the terms he has been offered, make him a good bet for BFC both in playing terms as well as financial, then I think we should take comfort in that. TB wont want to be made to look a prat (ie, by the Board), like - to a degree, their own inadequacies aside - both Leroy and Fitz were.
Lee The Bee
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rebus
On my final warning
Inappropriate Smilies Bee
Well-known member
The John Mackie thread
at the fans forum Butcher said he wanted the whole squad to end up as ugly as himself...........
casual
Active member
The John Mackie thread
All i can say on this one is when the **** will the board learn ,this guy may be good for league 2 but we have signed many of players over the past few years who were"supposed to be good for the league "that we were in and look whats happened.wake up bees board and make sure you sign players on decent contracts in future
Anyway Welcome to Gp John and enjoy your stay with us Mate
Anyway Welcome to Gp John and enjoy your stay with us Mate
The John Mackie thread
for starters, TB has had othing to do with this signing. How can he have? Andy Scott must know him extremely well from his previous post and therefore will surely have recommended him. TB needed someone with knowledge of the lower leagues so this is his first shot at backing Scott's judgement.
As for the contract length and value, who is doing this now? Presumably Dickens as MD unless some other board members are involved which if they are begs the question...why have a dog and bark yourself?
Mackie has good experience at this level and above and is still worth a two year contract if he has kept himself in shape. He is not 31 until July and Andy Scott will be judged on this signing as he will surely know first hand if John has done so or not.
Good signing imo. A natural leader!
The John Mackie thread
Yeah but they are all like Griffiths.....decent centre backs are not that easy to come by and are the heart of every good team.
He's not yet 31 and has a decent track record. A 31 year old centre back is like a 27 year old striker in a footballers life cycle so not a big gamble.
The John Mackie thread
Mackie's one of Andy Scott's old mates. We tried to sign him a few years ago when he was still 1/2 decent, now he's slow and not good enough for Orient....how times have changed !!
So now we have 2 slow centre backs and 2 dodgy left backs......and possibly more Orient chuckouts to come ??
The John Mackie thread
Agree about Heywood but KOC and Frampton are not dodgy, just had a bad season, if TB can get their attitude right they would be more than adequate for Div 2.
Mads Bee
Active member
The John Mackie thread
Hear a Millwall keeper is on his way......
Wolves and Millwall were sniffing round Charlie apparantly too ...... UNLUCKY!!
Wolves and Millwall were sniffing round Charlie apparantly too ...... UNLUCKY!!
D
Deleted member 2202
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The John Mackie thread
Hear a Millwall keeper is on his way......
If what you say is true, it can only be Chris Day. Maybe that's who we are signing tomorrow?
If we can look past his QPR connections, he would be an excellent signing for League 2.
Mr Cynical
Moderator
The John Mackie thread
Many people on here can't!! But I agree he'd be a good one for League Two..
Mads Bee
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The O's Frogman
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The John Mackie thread
So now we have 2 slow centre backs and 2 dodgy left backs......and possibly more Orient chuckouts to come ??
I doubt that you'll get anymore Orient chuckouts, I think that the only other two that you might have genuine interest went to Port Vale.
As for two slow centre backs/dodgy left backs; do you not have anyone coming through your youth? Mackie has a history of being very good next to a young defender - Gaby Zakuani and Brian Saah being the two examples at Orient.
Good to know that not all of you feel that I'm patronising, although it is a bit tempting.....
I doubt that you'll get anymore Orient chuckouts, I think that the only other two that you might have genuine interest went to Port Vale.
As for two slow centre backs/dodgy left backs; do you not have anyone coming through your youth? Mackie has a history of being very good next to a young defender - Gaby Zakuani and Brian Saah being the two examples at Orient.
Good to know that not all of you feel that I'm patronising, although it is a bit tempting.....
ApolloBeachTone
formerly known as DallasTone
The John Mackie thread
Good to know that not all of you feel that I'm patronising, although it is a bit tempting.....
Frogman, your stay in the division above us will be short-lived brother. It always is.................
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