Warbs Programme Notes v Bolton

[JBN]

whilst a number of fans are succumbing to delusions of grandeur.....

Its not delusions of grandeur, its seeing a fecking gilt opportunity flushed down the pan.

 

[Taunton Bee]

Lack of incomings in January have very little to do with our, comparative, shortcomings in reaching the plays off. Try the number of BASIC errors at the back, not caused by the fatigue of too many games but by the inability to make proper decisions (i.e. pass or clear up field). Much is to be admired about our passing game but there are occasions when a hefty clearance is called for. 10 points from the last 21. Not promotion form.

 

[JBN]

Lack of incomings in January have very little to do with our, comparative, shortcomings in reaching the plays off.

We need to win games. To win games, you need score more goals than the opposition. To score goals, you need in form/fit strikers. We have a bit of a shortage of fit strikers, which is a big shortcoming!

 

[nanny58]

We need to win games. To win games, you need score more goals than the opposition. To score goals, you need in form/fit strikers. We have a bit of a shortage of fit strikers, which is a big shortcoming!

Far to polite answer J B N

 

[Sheerwater Bee]

MW is right to give his side of the story. This season (MW's first and sadly only full season in charge) is reminiscent of Uwe's first full season when we just missed out on the play offs. Two fundamental differences: Uwe was given a chance to move the team on the following season and he was not shown the exit door with a third of his first full season to go! Under those circumstances MW and the team have done a remarkable job in securing at least a top 8 finish with a points tally even with 2 games left which would have merited the play offs in seasons gone by. Neil Lennon was the latest to declare his admiration for MW for this achievement. I for one take the observations of someone of that stature in the game very seriously.
In seasons gone by you could have argued that many of Brentford's long suffering supporters have deserved success and promotion in many ways more than the team itself as a reward for their faithfulness. For me this season the pendulum has swung the other way - it is the faithfulness of the management and the team and the excellent results and beautiful football that deserves the promotion whilst a number of fans are succumbing to delusions of grandeur.....

Get in there... rofl

 

[Lush55]

We need to win games. To win games, you need score more goals than the opposition. To score goals, you need in form/fit strikers. We have a bit of a shortage of fit strikers, which is a big shortcoming!

Yes score....agreed...... but also do not concede?
We have scored more than Ipshit and 'Boro.....but have conceded the most goals in the divisions top 10.!

 

[gbems92]

Yes score....agreed...... but also do not concede?
We have scored more than Ipshit and 'Boro.....but have conceded the most goals in the divisions top 10.!

Indeed, i dont think goals have been the problem, weve certainly had enough oppurtunities to score even more goals but its definitely been a more solid defense we have needed

 

[JBN]

Yes score....agreed...... but also do not concede?
We have scored more than Ipshit and 'Boro.....but have conceded the most goals in the divisions top 10.!

As long as you score goals than the team you're playing, you win the game!

 

[unBEEliveable]

MW is right to give his side of the story. This season (MW's first and sadly only full season in charge) is reminiscent of Uwe's first full season when we just missed out on the play offs. Two fundamental differences: Uwe was given a chance to move the team on the following season and he was not shown the exit door with a third of his first full season to go! Under those circumstances MW and the team have done a remarkable job in securing at least a top 8 finish with a points tally even with 2 games left which would have merited the play offs in seasons gone by. Neil Lennon was the latest to declare his admiration for MW for this achievement. I for one take the observations of someone of that stature in the game very seriously.
In seasons gone by you could have argued that many of Brentford's long suffering supporters have deserved success and promotion in many ways more than the team itself as a reward for their faithfulness. For me this season the pendulum has swung the other way - it is the faithfulness of the management and the team and the excellent results and beautiful football that deserves the promotion whilst a number of fans are succumbing to delusions of grandeur.....

Point is he has been putting his point across over various media for the last few months and yet still chose the penultimate game of the season to use his programme notes to do this once more. Going into the remaining 3 games of the season if those notes had you pumped up and raring to go and instilled a sense of unity to take into the last three matches then fair enough but it left me thinking "what the f did I just read and why!"

 

[gbems92]

As long as you score more than the team you're playing, you win the game!

As the stat fanatic on the gpg keeps posting a clean sheet is often the equivalent of 2 or 3 goals scored

 

[Mr Tree]

with all due respect guys, i quite like our gung-ho attacking style of play, rather than a turgid hope to nick a 1-0 style. gotta take the rough with the smooth. if you want perfection, Barcelona or Chelsea might be what you're after?

 

[JBN]

As the stat fanatic on the gpg keeps posting a clean sheet is often the equivalent of 2 or 3 goals scored

Not 100% with that, but anyway, look at the chances we have missed and then think, what if, those missed chances had been taken by a fit striker or we had had a decent defender in the mix to create competition and make sure everyone was on top of their game and not made silly deffensive errors that cost us?

I appreciate that you can speculate on 'what ifs' until the cows come home, but, the truth is, we have not only squandered opportunities infront of goal, but we have squandered a massive opportunity to get promoted because of this 'not upsetting the harmony of the squad'. It has cost us this season, whether we were ready for it or not, It has cost us!

Players are not like supporters, they have no loyalty, they will kiss our badge one season and the next season they will be kissing another team badge, so I don't really give a **** about upsetting the harmony of the squad.

 

[Mr Tree]

Lack of incomings in January have very little to do with our, comparative, shortcomings in reaching the plays off. Try the number of BASIC errors at the back, not caused by the fatigue of too many games but by the inability to make proper decisions (i.e. pass or clear up field).

could this not have been solved by bringing in better players at the back? as apparently we were trying to do? :scratch: :homer:

 

[Balders Bee]

I get it now,you believe you are the spokesman for the majority of fans,Do you really think they are that thick ?

No you don't get it. Allow me to clarify. Firstly I am the spokesman for no one except myself and secondly I do not believe my fellow fans are 'Thick'- odd use of phrase.

Regardless of fans thoughts on the subsequent goings on -and some obviously knowing more than others- I think most were completely surprised by the turn of events and the way it all unfolded hence my use of the term 'bemused'. A hell of a lot has been written on here and elsewhere since.. some thought provoking some complete guff I think the situation and 'rights' and 'wrongs' are far from clear with the amount of spin emanating from all parties involved.

Personally I will be very sad to see MW go but it is obviously time for that to happen and indeed we all put our trust -as we always have done- in MB.

 

[IslandBee]

I asked what you thought he might say. Brilliant or disappointing?

There's a long way between brilliant and disappointing. I imagine, for what it's worth (and it really isn't worth very much what I think MB thinks!), that he is a bit closer to disappointing than brilliant, but I hope he appreciates the very definite progress we have made this year. He seems to me to be the type of person who knows you have to be able to pick out the positives of situations as well as the negatives to progress.

 

[Bill Benn]

A

No you don't get it. Allow me to clarify. Firstly I am the spokesman for no one except myself and secondly I do not believe my fellow fans are 'Thick'- odd use of phrase.

Regardless of fans thoughts on the subsequent goings on -and some obviously knowing more than others- I think most were completely surprised by the turn of events and the way it all unfolded hence my use of the term 'bemused'. A hell of a lot has been written on here and elsewhere since.. some thought provoking some complete guff I think the situation and 'rights' and 'wrongs' are far from clear with the amount of spin emanating from all parties involved.

Personally I will be very sad to see MW go but it is obviously time for that to happen and indeed we all put our trust -as we always have done- in MB.

Sorry mate but think you got my post wrong I wasn't saying our fans are thick ....just one

 

[Balders Bee]

A

Sorry mate but think you got my post wrong I wasn't saying our fans are thick ....just one

"I get it now,you believe you are the spokesman for the majority of fans, Do you really think they are that thick ?"


Try reading your own post...."they are" refers to one does it...

 

[Robi Bee]

Enjoy the rest of your evening.

I did thanks!

 

[sonofabee]

"I get it now,you believe you are the spokesman for the majority of fans, Do you really think they are that thick ?"



Try reading your own post...."they are" refers to one does it...

He's from Feltham

 

[Newport Pagnell Bee]

I did thanks!

Excellent. Good to see.

 

[Robi Bee]

Looking at this old interview http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/brentford-owner-matthew-benham-every-championship-club-wants-to-get-into-the-premier-league-and-we-are-no-different-9336176.html

“Every club in the Championship would like to get to the Premier League at some point, so we are no different. But we are not going to put a timeframe on it. At some point we are going to try to make a push for it... in x years. I don’t want to say publicly. But yes it is achievable within a few years.”

That article is a good spot and (no gloating honest) is what I referred to on a previous post on this thread.....that is, why so much bloody drama if we don't quite make it this year, for whatever reason. Benham is a top man, he's not going anywhere and like everyone else wants to see PL football at Brentford presumably some point in the not distant future. But the club is still growing and learning at this level. Make the right choices in summer we will be in even better shape next season. And don't call me a xenophobic but how refreshing it is to have an owner who is also a fan and has a long history with the club, rather than being the play thing of rich kid from China or the middle east.

 

[sonofabee]

with all due respect guys, i quite like our gung-ho attacking style of play, rather than a turgid hope to nick a 1-0 style. gotta take the rough with the smooth. if you want perfection, Barcelona or Chelsea might be what you're after?

I love it and happy if we concede more trying to go for it as we have. Unforgivable is the amount of suicidal unforced errors at the back that have led to giving away soft goals.

 

[Bill Benn]

"I get it now,you believe you are the spokesman for the majority of fans, Do you really think they are that thick ?"


Try reading your own post...."they are" refers to one does it...

 

[Bill Benn]

Sorry again should have been clearer,what I meant to say was .....they are not as thick as you are ..do you get that?

 

[Les Beeavinu]

Watched the Southampton Under 21 cup win tonight - throughout, the commentators were eulogising about the way Southampton run their club - Les Reed, Martin Hunter Technical Director, Ronald Koeman all as a cohesive management team there to support the players.

A couple of really interesting facts came out - firstly, Southampton provide the most players of any club at England representative levels now. Secondly, they claim to have a "secret" database of 20,000 players so if one player leaves (Lallana for example) they access this database to find a player with similar attributes and try and sign him. To me, this is entirely Benham's vision and one that Warburton didn't want to be part of. Forget therefore about January and where we might end up this season - the bigger picture is all about Benham getting the right people in to execute his plan.

I think we have a very exciting future ahead of us at Brentford and whilst some people might rightly be sad that Warburon won't be part of it, it is his choice but for me, if it delays our future plans, he's better off out of it for everyone's sakes.

 

[GP200]

Watched the Southampton Under 21 cup win tonight - throughout, the commentators were eulogising about the way Southampton ruin their club -.

..............ruin their club??????...........

 

[Les Beeavinu]

..............ruin their club??????...........

A typo GP200. :grey:

 

[kevalutonbee]

Seems we now have something in common with Chelsea - a severe lack of strikers

 

[DidntYouUsedToBee]

Looking at this old interview http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/brentford-owner-matthew-benham-every-championship-club-wants-to-get-into-the-premier-league-and-we-are-no-different-9336176.html

“Every club in the Championship would like to get to the Premier League at some point, so we are no different. But we are not going to put a timeframe on it. At some point we are going to try to make a push for it... in x years. I don’t want to say publicly. But yes it is achievable within a few years.”

I get a sense that Warbs is being hung on here for his own success. Seems MB didn't expect us to be where we are and I didn't see many on here expecting the play offs at the start of the season.

 

[Sheerwater Bee]

I get a sense that Warbs is being hung on here for his own success. Seems MB didn't expect us to be where we are and I didn't see many on here expecting the play offs at the start of the season.

I think you'll find that MB certainly expected us to be around the play off spots.....

 

[abee]

I believe that MB was very pleasantly surprised to find that by Xmas we were in/around the playoff slots and equally important for all intents and purposes safe from relegation. The squad had done fantastically well and given that it was/is costing MB around £12m per season just to keep us in the Championship against the promised land of self sufficiency in the Premier there was an opportunity to gamble on spending a bit and have a real shot at automatic promotion or at worst cement a playoff place.

Squad harmony (if that was the price to pay) given that we were safe from relegation and it didn't matter a stuff if we finished 8th or 17th wouldn't personally have mattered a toss to me and in any event if the 'gamble' failed the players signed in January would have been bedded in for another shot in 2015-16.

Sod any 'veto agreement'............if I'd pumped in the monies that MB has and wanted to give it a go I'd have given MW and FMcP a copy of the veto agreement and told them to eat it 'Would you like pickles with it guys?' and this is how it's gonna be.

But then MB is a much nicer guy than I am and he doesn't seem to have an 'enforcer' who doesn't care if people like him or not. Somebody else should have been doing the dirty work and in January making MW and FMcP 'offers that they couldn't refuse' (copyright Vito Corleone).

 

[DidntYouUsedToBee]

I think you'll find that MB certainly expected us to be around the play off spots.....

Maybe, maybe I should have said 'didn't expect us to be in the play offs' to be more accurate. The following suggests he was on a similar page to Warbs.

“You have to be pretty careful,” adds Benham. “You don’t want to say to the players, ‘congratulations, you have got us promoted and now we are going to go out and replace you with better players’. The main thing is the current squad is good enough so we will be extending contracts and trying to keep the guys we have on loan.”

And beyond next season? A plan is already in place. “Every club in the Championship would like to get to the Premier League at some point, so we are no different. But we are not going to put a timeframe on it. At some point we are going to try to make a push for it... in x years. I don’t want to say publicly. But yes it is achievable within a few years.”

 

[jlove]

Watched the Southampton Under 21 cup win tonight - throughout, the commentators were eulogising about the way Southampton run their club - Les Reed, Martin Hunter Technical Director, Ronald Koeman all as a cohesive management team there to support the players...

There are few commentators, pundits and chit-chatters that "get it", so it's good to hear of those that do. As I think I may have posted a bit too frequently, what MB has planned for BFC is not unique and is not "foreign", there are examples in England, but not many take notice. BFC is in the vanguard but not ahead of the rest with this; MB will do it his way with his interpretation but he's studied others, proved it with FCM, "learned from it" and put the plan into action.

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Maybe, maybe I should have said 'didn't expect us to be in the play offs' to be more accurate. The following suggests he was on a similar page to Warbs.

Please read abee's post above. You are flogging a dead horse, things changed and not everything said to the press is completely true either.

 

[BURFORD BEE]

I believe that MB was very pleasantly surprised to find that by Xmas we were in/around the playoff slots and equally important for all intents and purposes safe from relegation. The squad had done fantastically well and given that it was/is costing MB around £12m per season just to keep us in the Championship against the promised land of self sufficiency in the Premier there was an opportunity to gamble on spending a bit and have a real shot at automatic promotion or at worst cement a playoff place.

Squad harmony (if that was the price to pay) given that we were safe from relegation and it didn't matter a stuff if we finished 8th or 17th wouldn't personally have mattered a toss to me and in any event if the 'gamble' failed the players signed in January would have been bedded in for another shot in 2015-16.

Sod any 'veto agreement'............if I'd pumped in the monies that MB has and wanted to give it a go I'd have given MW and FMcP a copy of the veto agreement and told them to eat it 'Would you like pickles with it guys?' and this is how it's gonna be.

But then MB is a much nicer guy than I am and he doesn't seem to have an 'enforcer' who doesn't care if people like him or not. Somebody else should have been doing the dirty work and in January making MW and FMcP 'offers that they couldn't refuse' (copyright Vito Corleone).

Bloody classic. Compulsory reading for all the bloody fools singing Warburton as he walks out. A man who knows from experience what he is talking about!

 

[Newport Pagnell Bee]

Bloody classic. Compulsory reading for all the bloody fools singing Warburton as he walks out. A man who knows from experience what he is talking about!

Confirmation if any was needed what those (obviously) ITK have been saying for ages. Unreal!!

 

[aawharris]

I believe that MB was very pleasantly surprised to find that by Xmas we were in/around the playoff slots and equally important for all intents and purposes safe from relegation. The squad had done fantastically well and given that it was/is costing MB around £12m per season just to keep us in the Championship against the promised land of self sufficiency in the Premier there was an opportunity to gamble on spending a bit and have a real shot at automatic promotion or at worst cement a playoff place.

Squad harmony (if that was the price to pay) given that we were safe from relegation and it didn't matter a stuff if we finished 8th or 17th wouldn't personally have mattered a toss to me and in any event if the 'gamble' failed the players signed in January would have been bedded in for another shot in 2015-16.

Sod any 'veto agreement'............if I'd pumped in the monies that MB has and wanted to give it a go I'd have given MW and FMcP a copy of the veto agreement and told them to eat it 'Would you like pickles with it guys?' and this is how it's gonna be.

But then MB is a much nicer guy than I am and he doesn't seem to have an 'enforcer' who doesn't care if people like him or not. Somebody else should have been doing the dirty work and in January making MW and FMcP 'offers that they couldn't refuse' (copyright Vito Corleone).

Would copy and paste this, then force all the numpties that continue to blindly deny to read it until the start of next season.
Maybe they will understand then...

 

[JBN]

Seems we now have something in common with Chelsea - a severe lack of strikers

With one on loan at a lower league club who is banging them in!

 

[sonofabee]

Maybe, maybe I should have said 'didn't expect us to be in the play offs' to be more accurate. The following suggests he was on a similar page to Warbs.

"Was" appears to be the key word, Warbs appeared to believe he should decide strategy and so they agreed to go their own ways. Sadly I fear his legacy won't be a Premiership side and if that is the case it's probably right that he is leaving.

 

[DidntYouUsedToBee]

Point is Warbs has become a victim of his own success. If Matthew Benham was happy with a few seasons in the championship at the start of the season, the only thing that changed was the success of the team. Warbs surely deserves credit for that and yet it is the very reason for his being seen as falling short. Bit of an Oxymoron eh?

 

[nick logan]

Point is Warbs has become a victim of his own success. If Matthew Benham was happy with a few seasons in the championship at the start of the season, the only thing that changed was the success of the team. Warbs surely deserves credit for that and yet it is the very reason for his being seen as falling short. Bit of an Oxymoron eh?

Get your tin hat ready

 

[DidntYouUsedToBee]

Get your tin hat ready

Hehe. Thought I'd just chuck that in and run

 

[NorthamptonBee]

Point is Warbs has become a victim of his own success. If Matthew Benham was happy with a few seasons in the championship at the start of the season, the only thing that changed was the success of the team. Warbs surely deserves credit for that and yet it is the very reason for his being seen as falling short. Bit of an Oxymoron eh?

He wasn't happy with a few seasons in The Championship, the noises were that we were going for it last summer from the clever people at the helm, he/they couldn't come out and say it as I thought they were barking and so would the village, Warbs is a good guy but he blew this one massively and I don't just mean the season.

 

[AB]

Clearly the detail has been leaked from inside the club but as we decided yesterday that this is a 'good leak'.....: then it's okay and presumably there won't be an investigation.

The way I read the report is that the 'magic forty' number is provided as an example and not a minimum requirement. You have interpreted the report as stating that a player who makes forty games gets £700,000 and someone on thirty nine gets 'zip'.

I don't believe it.

It would be a terrible incentive scheme if it needed 40 appearances to qualify - it would pretty much guarantee from the beginning of the season that none of the central defenders or strikers would get the bonus and would have had Gray whooping for joy when he saw Hogan go off at Rotherham.

 

[AB]

Watched the Southampton Under 21 cup win tonight - throughout, the commentators were eulogising about the way Southampton run their club - Les Reed, Martin Hunter Technical Director, Ronald Koeman all as a cohesive management team there to support the players.

A couple of really interesting facts came out - firstly, Southampton provide the most players of any club at England representative levels now. Secondly, they claim to have a "secret" database of 20,000 players so if one player leaves (Lallana for example) they access this database to find a player with similar attributes and try and sign him. To me, this is entirely Benham's vision and one that Warburton didn't want to be part of. Forget therefore about January and where we might end up this season - the bigger picture is all about Benham getting the right people in to execute his plan.

I think we have a very exciting future ahead of us at Brentford and whilst some people might rightly be sad that Warburon won't be part of it, it is his choice but for me, if it delays our future plans, he's better off out of it for everyone's sakes.

In this context it is also worth remembering that Southampton have achieved this while coping with Pocchetino going to Spurs and being replaced by Koeman and with Reed stating well before the MW/MB story hit the press that he was in regular contact with potential future managers who could be in line for Koeman's job. They'll also almost certainly have detailed plans in place to cope with the departure of Reed and Hunter, just as well run corporations do in respect of their CEO etc.

 

[Bangor Bee]

Bloody classic. Compulsory reading for all the bloody fools singing Warburton as he walks out. A man who knows from experience what he is talking about!

Hello, bloody fool and numpty here. The fact that fellow supporters are being addressed in such a brainless way shows how divisive this whole episode has been. While the bullish approach described by abee might have worked, it ignores the fact that the results in the two months preceding the transfer window suggested that a play-off place, or better, could be attained without significant changes to the squad. MB had to weigh the potentially negative impact of enforcing change (e.g. departure of MW with associated discontent among the squad) against the potential benefits of increasing the squad. I think he was right to avoid the former option, but nothing will persuade me that it was a good idea to start making approaches to other potential managers in the middle of our most successful season in 75 years. We've witnessed the consequences.

 

[aawharris]

In this context it is also worth remembering that Southampton have achieved this while coping with Pocchetino going to Spurs and being replaced by Koeman and with Reed stating well before the MW/MB story hit the press that he was in regular contact with potential future managers who could be in line for Koeman's job. They'll also almost certainly have detailed plans in place to cope with the departure of Reed and Hunter, just as well run corporations do in respect of their CEO etc.

I think a lot of the media fuss around "Warbgate" is due to MB being so private.
We are becoming a bigger club and the media just love soundbites and knowing the ins and outs of every owner.
As MB doesn't cherish the spotlight like others, i think it was the medias way of painting him as some sort of Silent Assassin by "Sacking Warbs", maybe to get some sort of response from him.

 

[abee]

It would be a terrible incentive scheme if it needed 40 appearances to qualify - it would pretty much guarantee from the beginning of the season that none of the central defenders or strikers would get the bonus and would have had Gray whooping for joy when he saw Hogan go off at Rotherham.

There is no minimum appearance qualification. Pauly Paul misinterpreted the report.

 

[nick logan]

I think a lot of the media fuss around "Warbgate" is due to MB being so private.
We are becoming a bigger club and the media just love soundbites and knowing the ins and outs of every owner.
As MB doesn't cherish the spotlight like others, i think it was the medias way of painting him as some sort of Silent Assassin by "Sacking Warbs", maybe to get some sort of response from him.

It will start in earnest now , report in the sun today saying he was asked why he wasn't at the football league awards. He said he wasn't invited . The article then went on to say that BFC had a table for 10 at the do.

The article began " ever feel you are not wanted "

 

[aawharris]

It will start in earnest now , report in the sun today saying he was asked why he wasn't at the football league awards. He said he wasn't invited . The article then went on to say that BFC had a table for 10 at the do.

The article began " ever feel you are not wanted "

Its the British medias way of picking on people that dont deserve it and just do business the right way
Its funny how they tend to leave all the Russian mafia, oil barons and Thai money launderers well alone.