What's The Problem?
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Shirley Bee
Active member
What's The Problem?
This is all very worrying. Everybody was posting that it was our attitude that was at fault yesterday. This has since been endorsed by LR.
He talked of players on the bench who would have a better attitude. This sounds like a threat of retribution rather than a determination to pull together.
Yet the Bristol City game just a week ago was a reason for optimism.
What has happened/changed in the past week for heads to drop so quickly?
Does LR have the squad depth/experience effectively to discipline some players while maintaining a good spirit? I hope yesterday is not the first sign he is losing the dressing room.
He talked of players on the bench who would have a better attitude. This sounds like a threat of retribution rather than a determination to pull together.
Yet the Bristol City game just a week ago was a reason for optimism.
What has happened/changed in the past week for heads to drop so quickly?
Does LR have the squad depth/experience effectively to discipline some players while maintaining a good spirit? I hope yesterday is not the first sign he is losing the dressing room.
What's The Problem?
This is all very worrying. Everybody was posting that it was our attitude that was at fault yesterday. This has since been endorsed by LR.
He talked of players on the bench who would have a better attitude. This sounds like a threat of retribution rather than a determination to pull together.
Yet the Bristol City game just a week ago was a reason for optimism.
What has happened/changed in the past week for heads to drop so quickly?
Does LR have the squad depth/experience effectively to discipline some players while maintaining a good spirit? I hope yesterday is not the first sign he is losing the dressing room.
Im not sure whether it is the case of LR losing the dressing room, but more of the case that the young players themselves are losing confidence. You only have to look at Alex Rhodes to see what losing confidence in yourself can do. In my opinion i dont think LR will be the greatest motivator for these youngsters and it may be the case of them getting their confidence back by their own means.
GP200
Voice of the mysterons...
What's The Problem?
Well having gone through this thread again then if North London Bee (who has forgotten more about football than many of us have ever learned) thinks that we are going down then that is thoroughly depressing. The reality is that this seasons playing budget is unlikely to be improved upon for a few years ahead and indeed could have to be reduced.
It seems to me that the options are either to drift downwards, or for a "sh*t or bust" strategy whereby we try and borrow more monies against the remaining equity in Griffin Park and keep the club either competing in this division or given luck forcing its way into the Championship. Any lenders would I suppose need to be assured that this was a five to seven year strategy at the end of which time Griffin Park goes......no "ifs" no "buts"........hopefully allied to a new stadium but if not with BFC packing up for a groundshare. However that of course would fly against everything that we were told Bees United believes in.......interesting times ahead.
It seems to me that the options are either to drift downwards, or for a "sh*t or bust" strategy whereby we try and borrow more monies against the remaining equity in Griffin Park and keep the club either competing in this division or given luck forcing its way into the Championship. Any lenders would I suppose need to be assured that this was a five to seven year strategy at the end of which time Griffin Park goes......no "ifs" no "buts"........hopefully allied to a new stadium but if not with BFC packing up for a groundshare. However that of course would fly against everything that we were told Bees United believes in.......interesting times ahead.
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
What's The Problem?
Which would you advocate?
It seems that we either "settle" for a lower Div 2 club at best in much the same way as Orient (who were stuck in the basement for almost 10 years) before they got lucky last year. Orient are an interesting model - they were a club with a good reputation who carried a healthy fan base in terms of people who had an affinity with them (if not real support) but I believe that has now been eroded and thus they are unlikely to return to the their halcyon days when they were seen as a lower Championship / good quality Div 1 side.
A high risk strategy would be to do anything to try and maintain and improve our position in the hope that a period of success on the field will do more to clear our debts than constant cost saving which will almost certainly damage us irreparably.
I believe, more form the heart than the head, that our status must be maintained and improved otherwise the Brentford we end up with and that I encourage my son to support will not be the one that I have supported for the last 15 years. A crossroads then, and one which is almsot certain to alienate some part of the fan base regardless of how BFC jump.
The one thing I am certain of is, that with the greatest regret, I won't support a football club that is no longer in the league, if it came to that.
What's The Problem?
Well I would first like to be told the bare bones at least of the Five Year Plan which Greg Dyke told us existed but no details have been released as far as I am aware.
The point I gather of being a "supporters owned" club is that the future of the club is supposed to be assured but does that mean a "future" at whatever level we settle at. I started watching Brentford when they were in the top division and it had always been my hope that I would see them either back there or at least somewhere near the top of what is now the Championship before I popped my clogs. That will never happen now. If we do ever get a new stadium then it is likely to be a plywood job somewhere out to the west of the borough (assuming that a third full Lionel Road doesn't fly) and the club can settle down to lower football league or non-league mediocrity.
My expectations are now minimal (as you will have gathered) and having seen clubs that we used to look down on such as Fulham, QPR, Reading and Wigan waving to us as they roared by then I prefer to remember things when we had a little more to be proud of. We have spent all but one of the last fifty three years in the bottom two divisions and yet there are I suppose still a few sad old gits like me who feel that if we had had some decent management and ownership from the late fifties onwards this club could have gone somewhere. The fans have been magnificent throughout my supporting days; the management/ownership of the club has been appalling.
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Les Beeavinu
Administrator
What's The Problem?
That's a sh*t way to start the week. Can you re-post something happier please?
What's The Problem?
It's a bit better than that, it's the bottom 2 divisions and we have only been in the bottom division once in the last 28 years.
What's The Problem?
It's a bit better than that, it's the bottom 2 divisions and we have only been in the bottom division once in the last 28 years.
I had just corrected it before your post........
Les Beeavinu
Administrator
Alan D
Active member
What's The Problem?
It's a bit better than that, it's the bottom 2 divisions and we have only been in the bottom division once in the last 28 years.
I am not so sure. If you go back over the last 53 years, you will probably find that the Bees are the biggest under achievers in the the London during that period. That includes Orient.
What's The Problem?
We are the only London side which has not either remained in or been promoted to the top division since the 1939/45 war.
However it's nobody's fault and lessons have been learned......so that's alright then.
But all is not lost.......I have information regarding a "Target 10,000" initiative.....that seemed to strike a chord from somewhere.......give me a minute it'll come back to me.
IsleofWight_Bee
Don't ya just hate Division 4
What's The Problem?
but he did well at Torquay......................
I was looking for a - are you sure? I thought they got relegated too 
I was looking for a
- are you sure? I thought they got relegated too
IsleofWight_Bee
Don't ya just hate Division 4
Shirley Bee
Active member
What's The Problem?
I hope you're right. But who were the three players who didn't bother to acknowledge the crowd at the end of the game on Saturday by all accounts? A full international, a senior pro and a player in his mid-twenties.
Shirley Bee
Active member
What's The Problem?
Perhaps it's time to revisit the sums associated with MA's rule (on the pitch, that is, ignoring the Princess of Wales and other off-the-field incompetencies etc etc etc).
How much did we pay for Turner, Sodje and DJ? How much did we sell them on for? How much did we make on the two cup runs and for finishing twice in the play-offs? And how do those sums compare with MA's final playing budget (ignoring the silly bonus arrangements that saw us paying more if we failed in the play-offs)?
Another question of course, is whether LR is the right man if we do an 'about-face'.
What's The Problem?
Could we maybe take a long view? Even if we were to drop into the Conference (let alone League 2) i think we would be OK. The Conference acts like a rehab unit for badly run clubs. Look at how many come back stronger and fitter (less indebted) and usually march through League 2 compared to those that drop straight through.
Whilst in the Conference, the overpaid (older) players get let go, the kids are given an extended chance to gel and the fans usually return (out of some strange "rallying to the cause" type motivation which doesn't seem to operate until the Conference). Sometimes, even a concerned local millionaire or two are tempted out of the woodwork and they often pitch in. The standard of football isn't markedly worse in the Conference either and you can get to the bar/chips/loos/car much easier (i know all this from experience...).
I honestly think that the real Brentford fans would stick with the club. If we were overly concerned with the quality of football on offer we would probably not be Brentford fans in the first place. What we do want to see is 11 players giving it their all for the shirt. From what i've read and seen recently this is a problem at the moment and LR needs to sort it out (for the record, i think we'll stay up after a cliffhanger final day).
What i really fear is a bout of financial incontinence in the January transfer window where we make some desperate, unaffordable signings. I'd rather see a team of kids, even if they were slaughtered each week, and console myself that the debts were being managed in the short term in the interests of long term survival.
On a more general point, the problem we are faced with is the same as all other smaller clubs, The Premiersh*te (which is also turning our national team into the new Wales....but i digress...). All lower division clubs are forced to play catch up and the sooner a salary cap is put in place the better. The trust clubs should be leading the campaign on this since we know better than most just how our ordinary little clubs have suddenly been turned into hard- to-afford luxury items. The fish rots from the head. If people want to focus their anger on something try looking upwards and widen your gaze to see the bigger picture.
Whilst in the Conference, the overpaid (older) players get let go, the kids are given an extended chance to gel and the fans usually return (out of some strange "rallying to the cause" type motivation which doesn't seem to operate until the Conference). Sometimes, even a concerned local millionaire or two are tempted out of the woodwork and they often pitch in. The standard of football isn't markedly worse in the Conference either and you can get to the bar/chips/loos/car much easier (i know all this from experience...).
I honestly think that the real Brentford fans would stick with the club. If we were overly concerned with the quality of football on offer we would probably not be Brentford fans in the first place. What we do want to see is 11 players giving it their all for the shirt. From what i've read and seen recently this is a problem at the moment and LR needs to sort it out (for the record, i think we'll stay up after a cliffhanger final day).
What i really fear is a bout of financial incontinence in the January transfer window where we make some desperate, unaffordable signings. I'd rather see a team of kids, even if they were slaughtered each week, and console myself that the debts were being managed in the short term in the interests of long term survival.
On a more general point, the problem we are faced with is the same as all other smaller clubs, The Premiersh*te (which is also turning our national team into the new Wales....but i digress...). All lower division clubs are forced to play catch up and the sooner a salary cap is put in place the better. The trust clubs should be leading the campaign on this since we know better than most just how our ordinary little clubs have suddenly been turned into hard- to-afford luxury items. The fish rots from the head. If people want to focus their anger on something try looking upwards and widen your gaze to see the bigger picture.
sonofabee
Well-known member
What's The Problem?
Sorry mate,
Bardford PA, Newport, Southport, Barrow, Workington spring to mind who once they left never came back and given the other clubs local that dads can take their kids to we'd be f****d! Aldershot would be the obvious compariosn and they're still not back and have a massive catchment area.
No more generations of bees supporters plus far too many disillusioned die hards who realise there's more to life than putting yourself through more years of agony especially when it's not even league standard.
Hopefully the board will not sanction any panic signings, the squad of players there now is weak compared to the good sides but adequate enough to stay in this division.....If they start converting chances at home and playing with bottle and common sense away
SheffieldBee
kick...and push
What's The Problem?
When January comes round Leroy needs midfielders. Preferably three. Pinault, Brooker and others simply aren't good enough. The problem at Chesterfield especially but at other matches too was that the ball was simply lumped forward from the back in the general direction of Jo Kuffour, who ran himself ragged and came out with nothing. I'm not sure we've seen anything of Callum Willock to justify the 50 grand outlay. He's been very disappointing.
West Wilts Bee
Active member
What's The Problem?
I honestly think that the real Brentford fans would stick with the club. If we were overly concerned with the quality of football on offer we would probably not be Brentford fans in the first place. What we do want to see is 11 players giving it their all for the shirt. From what i've read and seen recently this is a problem at the moment and LR needs to sort it out (for the record, i think we'll stay up after a cliffhanger final day).
Not this real Brentford fan mate, I pay a lot of money and spend a lot of time getting to GP. But there is no way I'll be doing that for conference football
The Walrus
Active member
What's The Problem?
This is the think that is upsettign me most about our performances, not just the results but the fact that some of the players just don't seem to want it enough.
What's The Problem?
I see my stock is going down.....last month it was an offer of a filet steak......now we're down to a curry........
lol
Keep getting fines, somethings gotta give
WisBee
Well-known member
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What's The Problem?
.......me neither, and that after supporting them for (at the moment) two years shy of 50 years......the cost and time involved in the 220-odd miles round trip will be spent on other things.....if I wanted to, I could watch non-league footie here in Wisbech or Kings Lynn thanks very much......
rebus
On my final warning
What's The Problem?
I'm glad Barnet are back in the League as we don't have that "honour" to ourselves now.
Jim Levack and Les Beeavinu's answer is spend your way out of it, well as abee has pointed out, the money could have been there for Leroy if it had not been so gloriously wasted by those in charge prior to this January.
I am still convinced that many more savings can be made but the buck now stops with Keith Dickens.
Minus transfer income, Brentford are still losing thousands of pounds a week. Until this is addressed we are going nowhere.
We are therefore living beyond our means, I honestly beleive this when I say considering our finances and general state we deserve to be in the bottom division and every season that we aren't is a miracle in my book. What a terrible state of affairs.
If you wind the clock back eight years when we were comparatively debt-free, I would not have said the same things.
What's The Problem?
We were relegated when we were relatively debt free, because the only reason we had little or no debt was because of transfer sales not because we were being run well.
I doubt there is a club in the bottom two divisions that run at a profit based solely on gate revenue and sposnsorship. Most will rely on transfer income and generous benefactors. Clubs are not run as businesses and it is only the advent of new grounds that has seen grounds used for anything other than football and generating additional income.
Sadly there is so little use for GP in its present state and the debt will not be cleared unless the ground is sold. That then leaves us with the same dilemma as 6 years ago, where do we move to? Its seems never ending, so I'm going to enjoy going to games for as long as it lasts. :sad: